Read The Bible Unearthed. There isn't even any archaeological evidence for the genocide of Canaan or the Exodus. So now ya get to have Christians not only argue that the genocide happened because the Bible said so, but that it was morally justified. Fun!
Ok, let's say there was still a core or a few cores that were still mutually intelligible to each other, which was what likely happened after Proto-Anatolian split off. If I well remember the graphs and explanations of the order of the splits. From this book. Proto-Indo-Iranian was supposedly to be the last to break off for good and thus forever ending the Proto-Indo-European period at around 2000 BC.
You should take a note that PIE appeared around 4000-4500 BC (if we assume the Kurgan theory is the best one so far) and its history lasted around two thousand years (that's a lot of time). The book then suggested early, middle, and late PIE periods. Early PIE was the PIE with Proto-Anatolian and Proto-Tocharian included. Middle PIE was the PIE when most daughters split off and at that point, I think that's where u/commercialwaste was getting at. Last PIE was the PIE with a few leftover daughters all separating from each other and that would be Proto-Indo-Iranian, Proto-Balto-Slavic, and some others I can't remember.
Finally, know that it's all a theory. Chances are good we will not know what it exactly happened. The best we can do is stick with theories that make the best sense.
Edited because: I had more to add and clarify.
I mean, over 750,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from that land, with over 500 villages razed to the ground, many of them completely massacred. It's not really a radical thing to want your land back.
Read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe. Its quite an eye opener. Most Palestinians were actually ethnically cleansed before the war started, so saying its the arab countries fault is completely inaccurate. https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
This image gives sort of the essential idea of what has happened. I'd advise the book "the ethnic cleansing of Palestine" by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe to start understanding the history.
There was a great book published a couple years ago about the Bronze Age collapse: "1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed" by Eric Cline. He has his own idea, of course, of what happened, but it also contains what I thought was a great overview of what little we know about what was going on at the time as well as the various theories advanced about it. The only thing I disliked about it is that the author lapses into elaborate technical detail and terminology occasionally, but it's worth muddling through, or doing quick search on Wikipedia for.
I highly recommend it if you're interested!
https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Civilization-Collapsed-Turning/dp/0691168385
I'm almost done reading "The Horse, the Wheel, and Language" and learned a lot about the Steppe theory. It's really interesting stuff.
I'm having some difficulty discerning what's new here. So, for example, the promotion blurb on Eric Cline's 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed notes:
>In this major new account of the causes of this "First Dark Ages," Eric Cline tells the gripping story of how the end was brought about by multiple interconnected failures, ranging from invasion and revolt to earthquakes, drought, and the cutting of international trade routes.
If someone came into your house and told you that their God told them that your house is now theirs, everyone in this sub would take up arms to protect themselves and their property. But since the conflict is targeted towards Muslims, everyone in this sub (and this political party) turns a blind eye.
What if it was Christian Palestinians? Who side would you be on? It’s irrelevant since Israel already killed all the Christians in Palestine in the 1940s......
If you want to educate yourself, here’s a book written by a former Israeli official, former Zionist about what happened in Palestine and Israel during the 1940s https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
If you don’t believe that guy, you might believe the survivors of the USS Liberty, which was attacked by unmarked Israeli planes in 1967. They were threatened with death and treason charges to stay quiet on the matter until Lyndon Johnson died. Lyndon Johnson, during the incident, called off the reinforcements while the attack carried on for another 3 hours. But don’t worry, Israel apologized for killing 34 of our soldiers, saying it was an accident. https://www.amazon.com/Remember-Liberty-Almost-Sunk-Treason/dp/1634241088
Or just stay uninformed and blindly support your government, it’s your choice.
According to secular historians?
Yeah...not a chance.
The consensus is that pre-Exile, the Bible is entirely unreliable. Post-Exile it has a lot of fact, but it's heavily propagandized.
Here's a great book to read on the matter: https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136
Because the whole country was taken away from them in a series of atrocities and evictions in the past 70 years.
Just imagine a house. If the house is yours and I slaughtered your family and evicted you. You would want the whole house back, not parts of it, right? Same thing with Palestine.
Hope that helps 🙃
If you wish to understand more about atrocities and evictions, then see https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1851685553/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_SEH1J4B822XQH1ZYMCJR
The 'Pontic Caspian Steppe' is generally thought to be the original location^1 of the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) speakers. So this places the ancestor language to Celtic (and quite a few other languages) in the area around modern-day Ukraine. So pre-celts might have been in Ukraine, although I suspect anybody we'd classify as Celtic today would have already moved west.
PIE is the language group that split into macro families. Among the European branch you get language families like Germanic, Hellenic, Slavic, Italic, Celtic, etc. (It seems likely that Italic & Celtic were kind of an Italo-Celtic supergroup and only diverged from each other after having split off from PIE first.)
Place name evidence indicates fairly widespread Celtic languages across almost all of Europe, but eventually it got squeezed out by Italic and Germanic languages. Sadly this mostly happened before the societies in question had written records, so we really only get the Roman perspective on the tail end of these interactions.
This leaves us with the northwestern fringe of Europe as the only place where these languages held on in meaningful language communities into the modern era.
^1 This is not entirely settled but does seem to be the consensus view, given corroborating linguistic, archaeological, and genetic evidence. See The Horse, the Wheel, and Language by David Anthony for a good write-up. It's held up quite well in light of more recent genetic and archeological scholarship.
Yeah. And here’s some more! (That second one isn’t a source on it’s own, but has several citations)
This is also a blatant attempt to shift the conversation away from the original argument, how does Palestine’s laws justify Israeli human rights abuses!?
If you're interested in HOW the bible was put together, by who, and when, the The Bible Unearthed is a great resource. It uses known history, archaeology, etc. not religious views. It's well sourced, and interesting.
>First link, Arabs started the Nakba. Don’t blame us for a war consequences you started.
Jews started the anti Nazi boycotts. Dont blame Nazis for a war consequence you started.
And no, Arabs didn't start Nakba you liar. Nabka was planned decades before the 1948 "war".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1851685553/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_HRFPHPDKJNRYSZGCTTR4
>Second link, it false, it wasn’t Palestine. It’s UK. Give me one name of Palestinian PM/President/King.
Mindless Jewish Nazi, I don't expect nothing more. Still indulging in slaughtering kids for your sadistic rituals?
Every person should read https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553 before choosing a side on this conflict. Majority of evangelical Christians are misinformed on the history of it. I admittedly was too for majority of my adult life.
Refusing a two-state solution by Israel at this stage and adopting the one-state means the West Bank and the Gaza Strip will get galloped by 'an ethnostate for Jews' and how would they handle a 6 million Arabs on their ethnostate? Read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappé an ex-Israeli historian.
We have massive amounts of evidence which contradicts the Bible's story. It's not just absence of evidence.
You should read this book. It gives the consensus archaeological view of the history of the early Bible. It's not quite up to date, but still very good. https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136
Yawn take this sad and wornout hasbara revisionism elsewhere, even Israeli historians admit to the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
All of the facts in this video and more are in The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman and if you read the book you will get more facts more efficiently (Finkelstein is interviewed on camera in the video). Nevertheless the video definitely adds. The CAD representations of the Temple Mount are the best I have seen. Also I have not before seen video of the Samaritans doing blood sacrifice by the ancient recipe and it makes for a whomping visual impact.
The life is in the blood. Yeah we all learned that part a long time ago but a picture can be worth a thousand words.
I recently read a book about the Bronze Age civilization collapsing. It was eye-opening. This seems to happen at about 1500-year intervals (last was Romans?). It does seem inevitable (we're overdue) that our society will collapse but I'm not entirely sure humanity is done. Our economic and political structures may collapse/significantly change. It'll probably be awful to live through, for those that make it, but new systems will rise. Humanity will continue. It will continue to make very poor choices leading to its harm because we're all selfish, short-sighted, and frankly, often pretty stupid.
But enjoy the better parts of it while you're here. Try to make it decent for yourself and others in the process. (I need this reminder, too).
Não conheço o livro nem o li.
A teoria de colapso das civilizações eu conheço no entanto.
Se quer ver isso, pode ler esse aqui.
https://www.amazon.com.br/Collapse-Complex-Societies-Joseph-Tainter/dp/052138673X
Tainter é bacana, ele usa sociologia e arqueologia l, é uma tese na realidade esse livro
1177bc the year civilization collapsed. He does a a great job explaining the history of the various archeological missions, but he has a ton of quotes from clay tablet messages from one kingdom to another which I thought was fascinating.
https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Civilization-Collapsed-Turning/dp/0691168385
When I say easier to digest, that includes getting more nutrients out of the meat you eat.
You can check this great bookout if you’re interested in learning more.
It's "a reasonable dialog"
Personally, I'm preoccupied with diminishing returns, and I don't think there will be technical solutions to the problems caused by too much technology.
https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Complex-Societies-Studies-Archaeology/dp/052138673X
1822 était mieux au niveau environnemental, non? C'est ce que j'ai dit et toi tu pars sur la nostalgie. C'est une question de ressources et déchets.
On n'arrête pas le progrès parce qu'on est programmé pour la croissance à l'infinie, comme toute autre espèce. Quand on ajoute pas plus d'humains, on façonne notre environnement pour notre bien-être.
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>On arrête pas le progrès parce qu'il amène des nouveaux problèmes, on corrige tout simplement les nouveaux problèmes avec davantage de progrès.
En effet, et c'est ça le problème. Les humains r`èglent les problèmes par addition, en ajoutant de la complexité, et cette complexité a un coût énergétique énorme, menant à l’effondrement de la dite société. C'est le sujet de Joseph Tainter: The collapse of complex societies.
Il faut revenir en arrière par nécessité, pas par nostalgie. On n'en fera rien mais c'est qu'il faut faire.
The Collapse of Complex Societies by Joseph Tainter (video version). While Tainter and Turchin are not working in tandem, I think they both have approached a similar conclusion. Tainter argues that societies expand and become more complex until they are so sprawling that they collapse under their own weight and are forced to simplify. I think that Turchin's cycles, such as rising discontent stemming from elite overproduction, are Tainter's overstretched societies undergoing simplification.
have you read this? Joseph Tainter - The Collapse of Complex Societies
https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Complex-Societies-Studies-Archaeology/dp/052138673X
He argues that complexity is the most important attribute, and scale is a just a result of it. Complexity is very expensive, in terms of energy and resources. At some point, the society reaches a point where the marginal benefit of maintaining that level of complexity is no longer worth the cost.
He doesn't distinguish between intentional or accidental collapse, but the "descent" from complexity to simplicity is the result either way.
It's not
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The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, a book published in 2001, discusses the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins and content of the Hebrew Bible. The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, an archaeologist, historian and contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine.
There's no archeological evidence for Hebrews ever being slaves in Egypt, we're all literally the descendants of cannanites who were already in Israel.
I'm not trying to attack faith here, if you believe in the Bible as fact, then just look there or resources around the bible.
It was a great read! A lot of archeological work was ironically done by the Church in an attempt to prove that the bible was "true".
Here's one on the broader Bronze Age Collapse, but provides good context for the Greek Dark Ages. Dr. Cline appears to have /the/ pop book on the subject, but I'm not sure of a more academic survey. Hope it at least provides a starting point!
If so, then perhaps this: https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient-ebook/dp/B000FBJG86/ref=mp_s_a_1_14?crid=3EV6TY3VMDG7P&keywords=bible+origins&qid=1640381501&sprefix=bible+origi%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-14
Defining the baseline to be used in the thesis might be very intriguing.
What is meant, exactly, by the word, “demon”? Or, is it more accurate to say, “diamon”? Personally, think this difference is at the root of the comparison and to deploy the Bible as a standard without digging into its dirt (pun) is to avoid the heavy lifting that should be done.