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If you are sincerely interested in learning more about this, I highly recommend Ahmed Rashid's journalistic magnum opus, Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia, Second Edition https://www.amazon.com/dp/0300163681/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_h91xDb0XMD6EN.
Can't hope to elucidate a complex narrative in a few words, but a good portion of the reason why the US has been in Afghanistan and Iraq for so long comes down to international oil interests, consequences of the cold war, and Central Asian and Middle Eastern regional politics.
Check out the book. Hands down the most gripping nonfiction work I've had the pleasure to read.
Edit: to clarify, this book was first published in 2000. It is not an explanation of the wars, but a description of the geopolitical scene in Afghanistan written at a time before 9/11. Imo, it's incredible that Mr. Rashid was able to describe the structures and tensions which ended up explaining future wars.
NEVER FORGET - the way he was used by the military for propaganda, how they burned his uniform and journal, how they lied about and covered up his death by friendly fire.
https://www.amazon.com/Where-Men-Win-Glory-Odyssey/dp/030738604X
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgU6SwuZJIY
Big ups to his brother for calling out the bullshit at his funeral.
Why they were so happy when NFL player Pat Tillman joined up and became a ranger. Also why they covered up his death being from friendly fire. Read Where Men Win Glory. It's a great book
The 1842 retreat from Kabul, as previously said was one - 18,500 men, women and children killed in 6 days with one lone survivor. If you want to read a wonderful, fascinating book about it check out the award winning ‘The Great Game’ by Peter Hopkirk, which details the British-Russia fight for India, which mostly took place in Afghanistan. https://www.amazon.com/Great-Game-Struggle-Central-Kodansha/dp/1568360223
https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Telegram-Kissinger-Forgotten-Genocide/dp/0307744620
This is also an excellent read for anyone interested in this topic
Here's the official summary of his book being sold on Amazon:
>In Where Men Win Glory, Jon Krakauer draws on Tillman’s journals and letters, interviews with his wife and friends, conversations with the soldiers who served alongside him, and extensive research on the ground in Afghanistan to render an intricate mosaic of this driven, complex, and uncommonly compelling figure as well as the definitive account of the events and actions that led to his death. https://www.amazon.com/Where-Men-Win-Glory-Odyssey/dp/030738604X
Why are you such a proudly ignorant asshole? The only reason these investigations fucking happened you ignorant shit was because the family was questioning the inconsistencies and because they didn't back down they exposed the real story. Seriously, did you know anything about this topic before coming into this thread?
Short and sweet: during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan we were sending a shitload of weapons to the Afghanis through Pakistan. The paki isi(their cia) pretty much gave everything to the taliban. The northern alliance got shit. The pakis (isi)and the talis pretty much teamed up wrg to weapons/training/etc. To top it off the feds were so impressed with the paki/tali religious dedication and a lot of our cash funded madrassas which in turn radicalized a shit ton of people which lead us into the situation we’re in now. It’s fucking absolutely nuts. If you want to read an amazing account of that whole ordeal I highly recommend “Ghost Wars”. And the follow up “Directorate S”
We basically caused 9/11 the rise of the taliban, the shitshow going on now and pretty much every terrorist attack claimed by isis and a lot more. I can’t even find the words to describe how I felt after absorbing everything.
The audiobook is great and there’s so much crazy shit thst pops up your constantly like “WTF!!”
I do not think there is any truth in his statement (only to his statement related to Mukti Bahani). His claim that Mukti Bahai were trained in USSR is not corroborated by any third party. If that was true, it would have been discovered by the CIA and it would have been used against Bangladesh by Nixon/Kissinger who hated India and BD. Even if that was not discovered at that time, it would have been used by BD and USSR and now Russia to promote the bilateral relationship between the two countries. But no one makes such claim.
On the claim that Kolkata consulate had AK47 for BD also does not hold water. TTBOMK, the AK47 used by BD was mostly Chinese and it was not a common weapon. If Mukti Bahani has an ample supply of weapons and the training as well as international support as claimed by him, Bangladesh would have become independent much earlier.
Some people from Pakistan and their supported in BD claim his statement as proof that the birth of Bangladesh was an international conspiracy against Pakistan. Its an attempt to change history with misinformation.
You may read the book Blood Telegram which covers these issues more broadly.
It is great that you are interested! If you would like to read more, I would recommend the book Destiny Disrupted by Tamil Ansary. It gives a good overview of Islamic history up to the modern day. Amazon link
I didn't read it yet. It was recommended by Muslimmatters.org: http://muslimmatters.org/2014/07/30/book-review-lost-islamic-history/
Here is another book:
- <strong>[Book] Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World Through Islamic Eyes</strong> - Tamim Ansary, for people looking for a comprehensive-but-approachable way to look at world history through the lens of Islam.
I am assuming you are talking about the Soviet experience in Afghanistan prior to the US/NATO war in Afghanistan.
If you want to know more about Soviet tactics in Afghanistan and the reasons behind them I highly suggest reading The Bear went over the Mountain as it details the Soviet experience in Afghanistan. Chapter 4 specifically talks about their use of outposts.
In his book the “Bear Trap”, Pakistani Colonel Mohammad Yousaf, who directed ISI’s support to Mujahideen, gave this analogy. The suppliers wants the water to be very warm. If it is cool, the enemy country gets too comfortable. If it becomes boiling hot, the enemy will strike out at you. If it’s warm, they will be in pain but won’t hit out too much at you.
https://www.amazon.com/Afghanistan-Bear-Trap-Defeat-Superpower/dp/0971170924
In Tashkent, yes absolutely. Its actually fascinating how Russian policy to central asia stayed exactly the same from tsar to soviet administration. (I love this book: The Great Game ). But Kyiv has been part of the Russian sense of Russia for longer than the US has been a going concern; Russia traces itself back to the Kievan Rus'.
One alternatively could assess the Ukrainians inherited the hardass part of the Red Army that gave me nuclear war nightmares growing up, and the Russians inherited the part of the Soviet command economy that makes punchlines.
In this case, America was definitely bad. Not just bad, truly evil. Just read The Blood Telegram. It will send you shivers down your spine and make you hate Ameria's foreign policy forever.
I second this. It is well-written and a good introduction.
"World histories" have been criticized as being too Eurocentric. I agree.
Two books can help correct this myopia.
Destiny Disrupted: World History Through Islamic Eyes
Big History by David Christian. This history starts with the origin of the universe. This views human history in the biggest perspective. I listened to the author's Great Courses lecture series on the topic.
That is an incredibly simplistic and also largely incorrect assessment of what actually transpired. Contrary to popular opinion, the US did not support extremists in Afghanistan to counter the commies.
This is an amazing, amazing book that presents a very thorough recounting of the Soviet invasion and it’s aftermath by Steve Coll, a Pulitzer winner who’s currently the head of Columbia's school of journalism. I can’t recommend it enough.
I can recommend Peter Hopkirk's book - he has written several other books about the history of the area as well
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I recommend reading Destiny Disrupted.
Europe didn't catch up to the middle east and China until about the 16th - 17th Century.
Reading the Blood Telegram was eye opening.
That book was based mostly on declassified US sources and Indian sources. Hopefully this book has more Pakistani sources to flesh out the story.
from that other guy
u/heretoshittalk would credit directly but on phone
There’s a great book about his story called, “Where Men Win Glory”. It goes deep into his anti-war stances but also sheds some light on just how shady and “unknown” his death truly was.
There’s a great book about his story called, “Where Men Win Glory”. It goes deep into his anti-war stances but also sheds some light on just how shady and “unknown” his death truly was.
This is true of many of the great thinkers of the medieval Islamic world, from Avicenna to Al Biruni. Lost Enlightenment does a fantastic job charting the intellectual history of the region, and how it formed the cornerstone of modern science.
>You’re flat out wrong
According to Ghost Wars by Pulitzer winning Steve Coll, this is indeed a huge failing in American Intelligence. To say that the relationship between Woodley and Clinton was cold would be an understatement.
Clinton hated yhe CIA. He was straight up combative with them.
Just cause you have deluded yourself with mass media, doesn't even come close to what is actually true. They lie to you, regularly.
Here, I'll do you a favor. Read about it yourself, 20 bucks to be more educated. Hell of a deal.
https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wars-Afghanistan-Invasion-September/dp/0143034669
This was in direct response to your comment about comparing the military spending in Afghanistan with the whole military budget. I pointed out that was a false dichotomy but still entertained your non-sequitur. And then you went way down the rabbit hole and completely left the budget argument behind as some sort of collateral attack on the last 40 years of military doctrine. I am not saying that is not a valid discussion, I am saying it does not belong in this thread.
I don't even really disagree with some of your premises, I just think you are painting with too broad a brush. Have you read Ghost Wars by Steve Coll? If not, I highly suggest it. It covers your points well, but it with a bit more nuance in my opinion.
This is Ahmed Rashid erasure.
The cummies at GamingCircleJerk got big mad when I suggested reading his book in their "Donate to Afghan refugees" thread. I suppose I also could've told them what America coulda done to prevent the refugee crisis.
I'm gonna promote a book: "Taliban," by Ahmed Rashid. He's Pakistan's best and bravest investigative journalist, and this is the definitive history of the Afghan Civil War of the 1990s. I learned a lot that I didn't know; a lot that 98% of Americans (whatever their political leanings) don't know, tbh.
Since nobody here paid taxes until the 2010s, your conscience is probably clean. If your parents paid taxes in the 1990s, their money didn't go directly to the Taliban. Their tax dollars were laundered via foreign aid to Pakistan, where the ISI and Benazir Bhutto armed the Taliban, hoping that Pakistan would get strategic depth to counterbalance India.
<em>Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World Through Islamic Eyes</em> by Tamim Ansary is neat and gives a good overview of Middle Eastern/Islamic history up to the modern day. Not sure about books on the caliphate(s) specifically though.
There's also Tim Mackintosh-Smith's <em>Arabs: A 3,000-Year History of Peoples, Tribes and Empires</em>, but that starts out before Islam even. Still really fascinating, but a little dense.
They're hardly going to to attack their source of funding, training and logistic/intelligence support. The Taliban and ISI have been close allies since the 80s.
https://www.amazon.com/Afghanistan-Bear-Trap-Defeat-Superpower/dp/0971170924
I am currently reading Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World Through Islamic Eyes. I am nearing the end of the book. My reading has just reached World War 1. The author has been explaining why European domination of Middle East governments and the economy in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries convinced some Middle Easterners to adopt a more Western lifestyle even one hundred years ago.
That's a really simplistic viewpoint on a very complex situation. For one, the Mujahideen were not jihadists. Osama bin Laden was there leader was was buddies with the CIA. He bought weapons and missles from the US, and the US stilulation is that they were not to be resold. Then the US sent a CIA agent to purchase weapons from Bin Laden under the guise they were a fighting force in the region. Bin Laden agreed. From there, the US shorted all weapons shipments to Bin Laden. Bin Laden, was on the hook, and lost face in the region as he had been selling US weapons under the table to local warlords.
Bin Laden was furious, and vowed revenge on the US for screwing him; but like all religious bigots, he failed to take self accountability into it. Had he followed the rules and not become a illegal US arms dealer, he would never have been shorted weapons he didn't actually need.
And thus, Bin Laden created his own vision as a victim and the US would pay dearly for it.
If you'd like to know more, read Ghost Warss. It's a legit attempt to state the facts with as little political or ideological leanings as possible and I highly recommend it. All information is sourced when possible with footnotes, and when not possible the author names the agent that provided the information.
https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wars-Afghanistan-Invasion-September/dp/0143034669