It sounds like you and your wife both use acts of service to say 'I love you', which can translate into unintentionally parenting behavior (especially when you have (three!) babies in the house. You both should read The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts to better understand the way you each communicate with each other.
You may also find it helpful if you consider that she's not mothering you out of pity or the belief that you are incapable of adulting. Like someone already said, it's incredibly difficult to turn off 'parent mode', especially if taking care is her love language. When you get frustrated, remember that it's the two of you against the problem, not you against her.
In my experience, it really makes a difference to be clear about how you are feeling in situations like this instead of focusing on the other person's actions. You might want to take a breath and gently say, "I'm frustrated right now because I want to pull my share of the weight, and I feel like you are taking on too much. I love you and appreciate how much you do. Please let me do this so we can divvy up the work more evenly." This shifts the focus to how you feel about the situation instead of placing blame/attacking the other person (not your intent but she may have felt that way), reminds her that you are a team, and that you love her which is always nice to hear.
100% stop giving her money, now.
Here are more tips but you have to decide what is necessary.
Block her number for awhile and give yourself space. She isn't a relationship worth having. She just tears you down. I know "it's family," but sometimes, that isn't enough. She isn't making ANY sort of effort to repair or GIVE into your relationship. She is just taking. (I have no idea why you pay for things for her...)
I would cut it off for 1-6 months and see how it goes.
Let other people deal with her, if she hasn't driven them away, already.
She will never learn anything if people keep helping her, despite the 1-way relationship.
Read up on Boundaries. It's the best lesson I have ever learned regarding relationships.
Normal is a mostly useless term in this area, but it's not uncommon for many different reasons. Not everyone derives intimacy or feels bonded from sex. Your wife may be one of those people. Someone who doesn't get their intimacy from sex may not understand that sex is not just a form of recreation to the partner, so they have no idea that unenthusiastic participation is often worse than no sex at all. On the flip side, which I think you are experiencing now, the partner that gets intimacy from sex doesn't always understand how the other doesn't.
This isn't an insurmountable problem, but it does take commitment from both partners if it's going to be over come. The first step is actually defining what intimacy means to each of you, and how each of you feel connected and bonded. For you, as someone that gets intimacy from sex, you have to focus on the feelings, and not the acts. You also have to be open to, and accepting of what is intimate to her, even if it's something completely non sexual. In order to find a happy medium for each of you, each of you must understand the specific things that the other needs to feel those "warm fuzzies", and you must both commit to providing that, without strings. Once that understanding is there, if your wife is open to it, she can look for things about the specific sex acts that have meaning for her, and make them something that she can desire and seek out. On your part, you have to let go of any need you have to dictate what the focus of her desire is.
It's not that there is anything wrong with either of you, it's just a difference in what makes you feel connected. Reading The 5 Love Languages may help bridge that understanding gap.
And you are right about the back rubs. If you do that now, you'll be turning intimacy into currency, and making your sexual relationship a transaction, which you'll find is even worse than what you have now.
>How can I start nipping that behavior in the bud with her? Any advice is welcome.
You can't change her. Thankfully, you can change you(ie your response).
To poorly quote another redditer,"Boundaries are something you do FOR yourself, not TO someone else. ". It sounds like you are primed to set some boundaries. I would highly recommend reading the book, but here is some advice based on my experience.
It is good that you are done. That is a great starting point! Sit down and make a list of what you don't like about interactions with your Mom (this can also help later if the fog decends). Then make a list of what you are willing to give her (time, money, energy, social engagement, etc), and what is too much. Decide on these boundaries when you are in a calm and clear headspace.
Next, comes the hard part, enforcing those boundaries. Don't let your self give in, especially when the heat is on. You have set rules for your self and will follow them. Support your own good in following these healthy boundaries that you set. Have compassion for yourself as you struggle with this. Remember that humans can change, but it takes time. You can do this.
OP could add God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything for a little light reading as well.
She might get the message that a 5th Bible next year is a wasted effort.
NAH - You're clearly not the asshole. However, rather than calling your husband the asshole, I think this may just be mismatched expectations and ways of expressing yourselves. Specifically, check out the concept of the 5 Love Languages (https://www.amazon.com/Love-Languages-Secret-that-Lasts/dp/080241270X). You don't need to buy the book, as there are articles out there that explain it well enough. The 5 are words of affirmation, physical touch, gifts, acts of service, and quality time. Considering the amount of effort you put into gifts/party for him, it might be because gifts/acts of service are important ways you show him love, so when they're not returned in that way, you're hurt. He might be showing you love in other ways that are more important to him.
Please don't let anyone tell you how to feel or what to feel. Feeling are information about what you are experiencing, what your internal state is. Listen to that voice.
We might be able to advise on how to react to emotions, but in and of them selves, emotions are info/data.
It sounds like your MIL is setting up a pattern of emotional manipulation and dishonesty. These make her an unsafe person. It is a good idea to keep a distance from things/people that are unsafe.
There are boundaries between all people. They are part of the natural social contract that exist between people. They tell us "I end here" and " you start there". Your MIL stomped on those boundaries. It may be time to make them more explicit and more firm.
If you haven't already, I would recommend reading "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud. It helped me a lot. It has some good stuff to say about boundary stomping mamas.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310247454/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_W9clBbYVG9R3W
Best of luck!
Don’t be a moron. There is plenty of proof and rigorous philosophy underlying classical theism and plenty of weak arguments in defense of materialism and naturalism. Catholics aren’t “bible only” Christians either and have no issue with extraterrestrial life, so you only reveal your ignorance here. Like a moron.
Adults also read books that challenge their view. So maybe give that a try instead of being of being a...you know.
>Any books you can recommend covering this?
>Old Testament actually referred to other Gods actually being thought to exist. Do they not read it?
i've been apollogetizied on those already, they are either not real gods but metaphors for worldly things or it was taken out of context /s
I really like the book boundaries. It changes the way you think about and act in relationships. It’s all logical, but if you’ve never thought about your relationship that way it’s a new way of doing things.
You are an adult. You get to choose how your mother treats you and interacts in your life. Draw some firm boundaries there and if she can’t abide them she will have consequences.
People with no boundaries and people with boundaries that are to intense suffer. You need to find the middle. So, for instance, if you don’t want her to kiss baby then say ‘it’s flu season and I’m not comfortable with you kissing baby. If you do kiss him, I’m going to have to hold him or put him in his swing’...and then do that. If she’s speaking about you in a disparaging way (your mom is being silly. Who raised her. Etc) calmly say that you are this child’s mother and you will raise this child according to your own guidelines, just like she got to raise her kids according to hers. If she can’t respect that, then maybe it’s best for her to leave and come back another time when she can respect your rules.
Be kind, but firm. It’s great practice because when baby is 2/3 you will get to do lots of work establishing and maintaining boundaries.
You sound a lot like me a couple years ago
Okay, let's get your mental health in order
What is your money situation? Got health insurance?
Sleep. You gotta get your 8-10 hours. Every night. Quality sleep too. Get a fitbit if you can afford it, the one that tracks sleep quality. Otherwise there are free/cheap apps. Watch you caffeine intake. Eat dinner as early as you can. Take melatonin. Optimize your bedroom for sleep quality if you can (40% humidity, 60-67 F temp, air purifier, blackout curtain). Easy on the booze
Go to the doctor and get blood work: vitamins, minerals, hormones (estradiol too, sounds like your T is fine), inflammatory markers, intestinal parasites. Depression and inflammation are correlated. Depression and testosterone / Vitamin D deficiencies are correlated. FIx deficiencies with food / sunshine if you can, otherwise supplements. Eat real food, the kind that goes bad. Mostly fish/seafood/shellfish and vegetables. Fish has Omega 3, Iodine, and Lithium, all of which are good for your mood
Attitude change. Go get the audio book of Feeling Good by David Burns. it's the intro to Cognitive Behavioual Therapy. Works better than drugs for most people. You can get it free on kobo.com if you sign up (credit card required but not charge until a month). Then get https://www.amazon.ca/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614 . Can find audio book on piratebay. It's an intro to Stoicism, a masculine philosophy of life which helps you think through negative emotions
Walk in the daylight / sunshine after lunch every day. It's good for your mood
After all that, after you're feeling better, and want some inspiration for school / exercise, read The War of Art (Pressfield), and Can't Hurt Me (Goggins)
You can PM me if you need help
Also, avoid female counselors, they are useless. Find a male CBT therapist if you need one
Sounds like you need a philosophy of life...especially since you already have a doctor of philosophy degree :)..
A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy https://www.amazon.com/dp/0195374614/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_LmVADb2ZYTREF
Grandpa here, and I've been down this path. Like the time I bought her that white sweater.... it got returned. I also think back to my dad telling me how individualized cars are, and how it was a big epiphany to him when he realized that it was important for mom to have the car she wanted and not so much what he thought she needed. He and I were both engineers so our brain always wants to go to "let me calculate the solution you need" and people don't work that way.
Let me try to pass along some older guy wisdom, so walk with me here:
Your 'best efforts' as you phrase it were to give her gifts that were what you wanted her to have; not so much what she wanted to have. As an artist, your creations are always about you and your concept of whatever it is. Even if it's meant for someone else, dragon colors and everything. It's still very much your expression. To you, this is a very meaningful thing from you and I think that you want them to be a surprise.
But human psychology doesn't work that way. We all have very individualized ways of how we want to feel loved. That's the main point from the very popular book, The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts by Gary Chapman. An issue is that lots of people lavish onto their spouse the treatment that they want, not realizing that it's not at all what the spouse wants and their attempts to make them feel love don't work at all. Unfortunately, it's super common.
Now this is where it seems like takes some real jedi mind reading skills and it ain't always easy. You're trying to completely remove the thinking of what you want and slide into their mind and think of what they want. With practice you can get really good at it over a lifetime. To be honest, it's a lot better to forget with the surprises and flat out ask what they want, gather the details and literally write it down. No joke.
It's based on a book by Dr. Gary Chapman
Basically everyone has different ways they express love and feel loved.
There is: Quality time- -Physical touch -Acts of service -Words of affirmation -Receiving gifts
Knowing yours and your partners can be very powerful. It allows you to better meet his needs and for you to better express your needs.
It's great for all relationships!
My impression of enlightenment based on reading Waking Up by Sam Harris (highly recommended) and Jeffery Martin's PNSE studies is that it doesn't necessarily change your personality much and it does not really have much to do with moral behavior one way or the other. Gupta would likely behave in a similar way whether or not he was enlightened.
What consequences has she had to go through? Sometimes cheaters need to feel hard consequences in order to understand that they are walking on borrowed time if they don't shape up.
I hope the both of you are in therapy.
Has any one suggested reading the 5 Love languages book by Gary Chapman? It might help both of you understand each others love languages.
> he doesn't ever offer to cook
> He doesn't buy me flowers, light candles or organise dates for us
You sound like an acts of service kind of woman. Go read Gary Chapman’s The Five Love Languages, figure out what your husband is, then start loving on him in his languages. He should naturally reciprocate. Try it for like one month and see if it works.
FYI: People typically have a primary and a secondary language. Use both of his (and get to know yours).
In my opinion, talking to family about a fight between spouses is very inappropriate. Having a mentor that is not invested in the relationship would be ideal if she absolutely has to talk to someone. Have you read the book Boundaries together?
I'm trying to write a comment but it hurts too much to try to put this into words.
I'm so sorry for what you went through. A father is supposed to be the spiritual leader of the home and what you experienced is so twisted and damaging. I can't adequately express my sorrow over what I just read.
The worst thing about this is our relationship with our earthly father will color the way we see God for the rest of our lives. Unless we regularly replace our thinking from what we experienced with truth from God's word we will forever feel from God what our fathers caused us to feel.
There is a book called Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud and Townsend that I would recommend to you. It talks about healthy ways to deal with difficult people in our lives that cause you pain.
I don't know how to answer your question about honoring. But you do need to forgive him and try to look for the good in him and honor that. Your father is a sinner created in the image of God but broken. Maybe some day you can see the good in him. I don't know.
It might help to write down what you want to say to your BF, as well has have the harassing DMs ready to show him. If you’re too nervous to say it aloud then have him read what you wrote instead. You can also try practicing out loud what you want to say, that helps too.
> I really hope he doesnt come over to confront me after my bf says something o him
If his friend does come over just don’t answer the door. Don’t answer it. You do not have to open your door to him, you do not have to let him in your home, and you do not have to talk to him or explain yourself to him. If he gets angry then so what? He’s a jerk! Let him be angry!
If he refuses to leave or makes you feel threatened call the police and have him removed for trespassing. It’s 10000% ok to be “rude” or “mean” if someone is making you feel threatened, don’t put yourself in danger because you’re worried about politeness. Your safety matters more than this dude’s ego.
I’m really sorry you’re in this position. I have to say though that it sounds like you might have difficulty sticking up for yourself and setting healthy boundaries with people (and maybe some anxiety going on?). If it’s an option therapy could be really helpful with developing those important life skills (here’s a guide on how to find affordable therapist if needed, there are also some online therapy websites that tend to be more affordable than in-person ones), if therapy is not an option then there are some good books out there about setting healthy boundaries that you might benefit from checking out (such as Boundaries: When to say yes, how to say no)
Good luck tonight! Just remember to take some deep breaths if you feel yourself geting too anxious. You can do this!
This book will be super helpful! You’re right that your husband is 100% the priority now. Everyone else comes after that, including parents.
Tell her she (your mom) needs to read the book, Boundaries: by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend.
It's written by two Christian psychologist and is an incredible read. I love Jesus and there's nothing biblical about continuing to support that type of behavior. You can have compassion and still have standards for what you will and will not accept.
I wish more people would read this book. Check it out, it might give you a way to explain things to your parents and hopefully they will understand that you're actually doing the loving thing here.
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
Edit: clarifying wording
Change your mind.
You speak about the love languages, but do you truly understand all that there is about them? The entire point is that it's not about you, it's about how your partner wants to feel. Seriously go buy the book and read it cover to cover.
The way you describe it is kind of like she hates drinking milk and loves iced tea. But you like milk a lot so you cram milk down her throat because that's all you want in life. And you're pissed off that she has the gall to want iced tea. In fact, iced tea doesn't even enter your mind and if it's brought up, it MAKES YOU MAD BECAUSE I GAVE YOU PLENTY OF MILK. You don't even buy into the concept of iced tea at all. You'd never serve a glass for the rest of your life because you don't value the stuff. You gave milk so why the hell do you keep bringing up that damned iced tea? Enough is enough of that stupid tea!
So let's reframe this. Do you value your wife? Yes or no. Do you value her opinion? Yes or no. Does she deserve to hear that she's wanted, that she's done something well, that you're proud of her and that you love her? Yes or no. This is the foundation that needs to be there.
If all of these are yes, then it's time to make them a priority. "I didn't think about it" or "it didn't occur to me" are cop-outs. Is her happiness and fulfillment a priority to me or not? My take is that doing these things should be fun and make you feel good. I want life to be fun so I bring it--even as I had to be taught long ago, same as you.
I saw an app yesterday that might help. It's iOS only right now, but they're making the Android version. It sends reminders to do and be nice to your partner. It's called emi daily relationship reminder.
An accessible work written about this subject is Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth.
More about this subject can be found at the wiki/FAQ pages here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBibleScholars/wiki/faq
Specifically, numbers 12, 32, and 34.
Along with everything listed here, your friends may be inclined to listen to Bart Ehrman. He's an atheist New Testament scholar who has written and spoken quite a bit against Jesus mythicism. Be aware that as an atheist he has many claims about both the historicity of certain parts of the bible and the figure of Christ himself that I find problematic, but he does a good job refuting the idea that Jesus never existed period. If you or your friends enjoy reading, his book Did Jesus Exist? is a good presentation a secular case for the historical figure of Jesus. He has also been on the radio show/podcast Unbelievable?
If you like podcasts, then Unbelievable? has a ton of great episodes debating this issue if you search through the archives. (And, might I add, if you're doing any kind of apologetics it's a great resource to listen to Christians having fantastic apologetics discourse with people from all kinds of belief systems.)
Here is a great book discussing 5 unique proofs for the existence of God. Feel free to read and review it and come back with questions.
If you expect the existence of the Creator of everything to be proved "without a shadow of a doubt, that would convince the entire world population" in a reddit comment, then you either don't understand how proofs work or you severely underestimate the stubbornness of man.
But this is, again, all besides the point of your original question "Do you believe religion is still important in today's world".
I was living independently prior to my daughter being born. She interferes as much as I allow her to. You are a 31 year old woman. You are the only one in control here.
You really need to read this book, hold on I’ll link it
Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310351804/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_66Z8DFY5TEWFVHDY5B0G
I forgot to mention a book that really helped me and my husband with boundaries (and my husband isn't much of a reader of self-help literature). We each grew up with a PD parent, so we need help!
When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
It is Christian-based, which would automatically have made me reject the book (because I don't like Bible-thumping), but actually it totally changed my mind about the morals and ethics of setting boundaries. We must, say the authors, in order to grow personally and spiritually ourselves, and to make sure others are free to do the same. They say boundary-stompers must be stopped, and we must stop them.
It is great, I promise! I re-read it every time I feel guilty about my mother, which is a lot, and get a boost of confidence every time. I've had it on my bookshelf for at least a decade. The guilt and manipulation of a PD parent is fierce. This book's concepts is like garlic for that.
My husband and I liked their other book, "Safe People" just as much, but I don't find it on Amazon. It is here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/safe-people-henry-cloud/1101957885/2679450583166?st=PLA&sid=BNB_DRS_Core+Catch-All,+Low_00000000&2sid=Google_&sourceId=PLGoP79700&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI16vy1rGc2gIVnkoNCh1REQo1EAQYAyABEgL5uPD_BwE
My husband read Safe People in one sitting and announced his mother wasn't a safe person, and immediately totally changed the way he relates to her--which saved our marriage and family. He LOVED the Biblical stuff because his mother used to use Christian values as a bludgeon whenever she wanted her way over everyone else's. This stopped that.
Other people gave good advice re therapy for all. But some important points:
-Ex needs to understand this is your home. You need ground rules. She's a welcome guest until she can get back on her feet. For example, one of your rules to stay might be therapy. Maker a written list (even where she needs to park her car) and have a sit down ASAP.
-Great book idea might be "Boundaries" as it teaches you how to nicely draw the lines to protect yourself. And you need to stay safe in order to help. So read it so you can help them more.
-While you can forgive her & I hope you do, that does not mean you need fully trust her. They are not the same.
You can do this friend.
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