Couple's counseling with a therapist.
You need a third party who can validate her being heard and explain to her that she isn't being good to you by denying something that treats your medical condition.
Also, the book "Is it You Me or ADD" might help her find her feet in the relationship.
This is emotionally cheating. And he’s gaslighting you by downplaying and disregarding your observations and feelings. None of this is healthy.
There’s a couple of things that I would consider reading in order to gain some focus and clarity:
2) The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert https://www.amazon.com/dp/0553447718/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_xh0-FbKBRP400
I would explain to your husband that after reflecting over time that you’ve come to be hurt and confused by his treatment of you vs. other women. I would point out the double standard and how it would make him feel in reverse and I would let him know that his behavior is breeding resentment.
He has a choice to change and he might do it, but it will probably take couples counseling. The only way for counseling to work is if both people are willing participants.
If he doesn’t change then at least you’ll be well read and understand exactly what’s going on and exactly where your boundaries are and that will make life easier for you going forward if your marriage ends.
>The problem is I can't come up with punishments
That's not the problem. There are probably dozens of actual problems (both big and small) underlying this situation, and what you need are solutions. Punishment does not create solutions; at best it might create motivation, but as research has shown us again and again, that form of motivation can come with significant negative side effects. Consider that your "solution" to your son's problems is to find ways to make him unhappy (punishment), and what that's teaching him as a problem-solving strategy and as a relationship model: that he stops caring and reacts by making other people miserable isn't particularly surprising.
You need to change your perspective on discipline. You need to stop using methods that are inherently antagonistic and ultimately unhelpful, any start using methods that build relationships and are focused on helping him identify and actually solve his problems.
Take a look at The Explosive Child. It outlines an evidence-based discipline model that focuses on understanding and problem-solving rather than punishment. There are more resources available at the Lives in the Balance website (take particular note of The B Team Facebook group linked there).
>My son is an ass, constantly.
Most of what you described sounds like a normal 8 year old and some of it sounds a little ADHD-ish (with the caveat that no such judgement will be accurate from a few sentences of description).
The fact that you call your son an ass because of his difficulties is concerning and I'm not surprised the doctor's reaction was to tell you to cut out the negativity.
>Doctor says not to punish or be negative. How do I get him to listen without mentally wearing myself to a breaking point.
There are evidence-based discipline models that don't utilize punishment - in fact, the most effective ones tend to absolutely minimize punishment or eschew it altogether. The reality is that punishment simply isn't very effective and is fraught with negative side effects.
If you want a punishment-free model that's effective, I suggest you take a look at The Explosive Child and the additional resources at its website.
UGH I've said this in other threads about him not changing diapers but TANNER ACTS EXACTLY LIKE MY EX-HUSBAND.
Jade, girl, just please read this book and consider whether this is really what you want.
Sounds like you all have some communication issues. I had some similar issues with my first pregnancy and a therapist recommended the book dance of anger which I really liked and found really, really helpful.
Basically, you alone are responsible for your happiness and you cannot force your husband to change, especially through talking....or nagging. Instead, change your reaction. It will give you power and help break you out of the victim mindset. What you're doing is not only not working, it's probably making things worse so the answer is to change the way you respond to his actions.
I also have a tendency to take passive aggressive comments really personally. Individual therapy helped me a ton and eventually (because my response to them changed) they stopped almost altogether. If you can afford it, I'd also recommend a few therapy sessions just for you so you can discuss strategies and sort out your feelings. Basically the therapist was like 'why do you care?' Over and over. Emphasizing that if I felt good about how things were being handled that was more than enough. The implied message to my husband was that passive comments don't change my behavior because idgaf. If he has a problem he can sit me down with me and discuss it like a reasonable adult.
>He has said that Mr. M is mean ... I told him Mr. M is nice
If you want your kid to actually talk to you about his problems, he needs to feel his perspective is heard. If nobody listens and actually helps him get to the root of the problem, is it any surprise he escalates to unignorable responses?
You don't solve problems by being dismissive. You also don't solve problems through "time out and privilege loss." You solve problems by gathering information about them - including the concerns of the people involved - and then creating a plan that can address those concerns. Paiger's advice is good, and I suggest you take a look at The Explosive Child for a solid, evidence-based model for problem-solving.
>we did what we could, everything from punishment to rewards-based encouragement. Nothing made any difference. She laughed in our face.
Both of these things are (a) forms of adult-imposed manipulation/force, and (b) do nothing to solve the underlying issues that give rise to the behaviors. "Do better or you'll regret it" / "do better and get a treat" - neither truly address how to do better, and it only exacerbates problems with kids who have a "push me and I'll push back" personality.
I'd suggest you take a look at The Explosive Child and the Lives in the Balance website; both focus on an evidence-based discipline model that is focused on collaboratively solving problems rather than applying force.
Since this does involve talking, it may help to get her uncle a copy as well - he might have to help you jumpstart the process. And definitely take advantage of the resources linked on the website, particularly the B Team Facebook group.
Kohn's book is great but does not contain much in the way of actual strategies to support the philosophy. You would be well served by also reading The Explosive Child, which gives you a practical, evidence-based model for handling problems without punishments or rewards.
Twin parent here too, with kids around the same age. This book was incredibly helpful for us in reframing how we communicate. They’ll clean up their toys now, brush their teeth, get dressed, etc. without it being a hassle. I hope it helps you too.
How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk https://www.amazon.com/dp/1451663889/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_i_ErgZCbF1850NS
>all she can tell me is she’s just really angry and doesn’t know how to control it
And it's the truth. She's dealing with an unbearable pile of difficulties that plenty of mature adults wouldn't handle well. A six year old is much more easily emotionally overwhelmed.
>family and acquaintances say I should be spanking her mercilessly until she fears me
Your family and acquaintances suggest to overwhelm this child with so much pain and fear that she shuts down completely. Your family and acquaintances are, to be blunt, thoughtless assholes advocating child abuse.
>I feel like that wouldn’t really solve my problem as she mostly needs therapy and anger management
And I'm very glad to hear you understand that. Spanking will not teach her how to cope with her emotions (and honestly, neither does any other form of punishment - that's simply not what punishment does). I'm sure you're already doing your best to find her professional help ASAP...
In the mean time, I suggest you take a look at The Explosive Child - it contains a positive and constructive evidence-based model for solving the problems that lead to the outbursts in the first place, by thoroughly understanding the problem situations and coming up with better, workable solutions. (This works for kids who have trauma-induced deficits the same way it works for kids who have deficits due to ODD, ADHD, or autism.) You can find more resources (including some helpful Facebook groups) at the Lives in the Balance website.
He's gas-lighting you...bad. And you likely do have a form of PTSD!
-Year one is like being in ICU.
-Year 2 is like being in the hospital
-Year 3 is painful PT.
You're still in ICU! You should feel this way.
Tip: He needs to read "How to Help your Spouse Heal from Your Affair." It lays out a 15 point recovery plan. He needs to commit to those 15 points or your relationship might not ever heal.
I just realized you're not married. Oh friend, treat this as a godsend. Break it off. At a minimum downgrade him to bf. But the engagement is off!
I've seen no evidence that is true. It very well might be, but I would want to see the facts like from Shirley P Glass. Author.
On this sub, it seems 50/50.
Btw, I lean to trying to save marriages...if at all possible. Ask her to read this book right away (because of expiring lease). It's designed for the cheater. It explains the work she will need to commit to. She can even buy the audio version today and you both listen to it tonight.
Do you want it to work? If so, may I suggest going one more month without signing a lease. Having you both have to decide in a week is a lot of pressure.
I'd like to help. PM me if you want. I'm a guy in my 50s.
It’s available as a Kindle download for $7.99 on Amazon, and you don’t actually need a Kindle as you can read it online in the Kindle Cloud Reader or you can install the free Kindle app.
How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful https://www.amazon.com/dp/145055332X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_2z.GBbTP2JAKC
You both speak the English, but you don't speak the same language. You'll start to see the things that happen every day, and the first while is hard because there is so much miscommunication and learning where the compromises need to be made. Marriage is different than dating if it's the level of commitment of "till death do you part" - you'll eventually be more yourself than ever, and them as well - and you'll have to figure out if that's good enough or what you want to change.
Two books I recommend to anyone:
Marriage is work - this one has some practical tools for keeping it close and healthy, and signs to watch for.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0553447718/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_MFXN1B4J3JX1JC6AWDRK
Book on children's communication that applies to adults just as well, we're just shitty at recognizing it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1451663889/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_4VR60S3CZW17599HX6JC
A lot of the child psychology coming out these days is all about listening and helping kids put words to their emotions. Instead of trying to correct behavior, point out the emotion they are having and allow them time to figure out a solution. "Oh, it looks like you're tired." "You seem frustrated with this homework." Give him data and help him build his emotional intelligence to be able to solve the puzzle on his own.
I highly recommend this book: How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1451663889/
Kids are tiny humans who have a lot of stuff going on inside their minds and bodies. And we often forget that they have this whole other universe going on inside their heads, just like we do, but nobody has taught them what to do about it.
First do not move out! That can hurt you lot in case of divorce!
I'm a guy that is biased to saving the marriage...especially with kids. But I'm not stupid about it. Unless she comes around (clearly she hasn't) there isn't anything you can do. Keep going to counseling even if she doesn't show up.
But if she doesn't come around ask her to move out to figure out her life. Is the AP married? Because that might help you if he is.
There's a decent chance you will file for divorce. Filing is sometimes the only thing that gets their attention! It doesn't mean you have to go through with it.
Odds are high they had car sex. If unprotected be sure to get tested. (that even hurts to type).
If she 100% is dedicated to making the marriage work, this book is about the only way to begin the long, long healing process.
Pls keep us posted with updates.
​
The first anniversary after DDay is going to be hard on her.
Ask her what she wants. She may not even want to celebrate the day. Right now it’s very raw for her.
Healing timeline for infidelity is 2-5 years. First year is her processing what has happened.
Right now she is riding an emotional rollercoaster.
Also, making it to 8 has everything to do with you and how you put into place changes to help her feel safe.
Read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda McDonald. It will give you a basis on the things she needs from you.
You can get it from amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/145055332X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qagUybCZE9ZZT
Also Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass
This will help you understand how your boundaries were such that you allowed an affair into your life.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0743225503/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_XagUybMQYXFG2
Good luck tonight.
I would start with this book:
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_5yrQBbDGX7TAG
Check out The Explosive Child. It's basically a detailed, evidence-based process for doing what /u/otk_boi suggested.
Here's what I recommend:
Lol simple way to get them excited for bed is to make it a race. “I bet i can get to the bathroom before you” “i bet i can get my teeth cleaner than your!!” last one to the beds a rotten egg!!!
Turn it into a game. Its fun and gets them excited for bed.
Edit: also check out this book
How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk (The How To Talk Series) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1451663889/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_XVA43WTYNB3BQRGG7YQ7
My husband read this book. Every week. Foe two months. Until it was ingrained in his head. It has undoubtedly saved our marriage. I read it too. It truly showed the WS how e affair effects the spouse.
https://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Spouse-Heal-Affair/dp/145055332X
Get the book "Not 'Just Friends" by Shirley P. Glass Ph.D.
I'm actually very similar to your situation, except that I already have 3 kids in the mix, which makes it a whole heck of a lot harder. Someone on this thread recommended the book "Too good to leave, Too bad to stay" and I'm now going to recommend this book to YOU.
I started reading it recently, and it's a VERY good book to help you figure out if your relationship is too good to pick up and leave, or if it's too toxic to stay in and to get out. Get it on Amazon here... http://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350.
You can find a PDF of it online, or buy it. I am going to buy it to keep on the shelf, because it has so many good thoughts and ideas. Also, if you want the jist of the book without reading it, it has 35 questions to evaluate whether or not to stay or leave, and you can read those questions here... https://divorcesource.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/too-good-to-leave-too-bad-to-stay/
The book presents a question, and then explains a guideline based on that question, and then gives real world examples. It's great!
Here’s a link to Amazon How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk (The How To Talk Series) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1451663889/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_CCC7006YKTJC6NWYE68F
You can also probably rent a digital copy from your library and read it on your phone, I regularly download it to my parent friends phone do they can read it immediately. 💛
Dude. Stop rationalizing. Stop talking. Take control. This job, alcohol, and all these people need to be out of her life. And you need to file for and and expose her behaviors to family and friends. Stop playing this weak. It’s not ok for her to have a one on one relationship with another man at all... she should be texting them. And you should be included in nights out. Those should be your boundaries. And don’t allow the distance to be an excuse. What did she do about it besides give access to another man? It was all on you to fix? That’s bullshit.
https://www.amazon.com/Not-Just-Friends-Rebuilding-Recovering/dp/0743225503
For a free copy online just google “not just friends pdf.”
No more me nice guy is a good book to read too.
I picked up the book The Explosive Child and am still in the middle of reading it, but it sounds like SD7's behavior fits right in to what this book talks about.
Kids with troublesome behavior lack skills that come to other kids naturally. The ability to adapt, be flexible, to change gears or to deal with even a minor amount of frustration. If a kid has these skills, they use them! Because obviously it's easier for them to live life with less conflict than it is to incite conflict at every opportunity.
But if a kid doesn't have those skills, they go haywire. It's not that they can handle the situation and they're choosing not to use these skills. No, they simply don't have the skills to handle whatever frustrating situation they're being faced with, even if it doesn't make sense to our adult brains as to why they're having a problem.
They might go nonverbal, they might start repeating themselves mindlessly, they might say "no" to any suggestion to help them, and when threatened with punishment, they go even MORE haywire and blow up.
I'm still reading to discover what kinds of tactics work with these kinds of kids; the main tactic seems to be to problem solve WITH the kid, and head off outbursts before they start.
I have learned through this book that kids who lack these adaptive skills don't have the capacity for manipulation. They might have maladaptive behaviors that look like manipulation, but manipulating requires a LOT more social skills than kids with troublesome behavior tend to have.
Hopefully this book reco helps you the way it's been helping me! https://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Child-Understanding-Frustrated-Chronically/dp/0062270451/
I just found a book titled "Is It You, Me, or Adult A.D.D.: Stopping the Rollar Coaster When Someone You Love Has Attention Deficit Disorder". I can't recommend it yet, but am really hoping this it the book I can give to those I love as a users manual for my brain.
You are looking at this through a lens of there's clues all over but since no proof more than kissing was involved, it didn't happen.
The BS notices she was acting odd, spending a lot more time after work with some guy co-workers, hiding her phone that now has a password, on her phone a lot more in private, more distant, having to work on some Saturdays, more into personal grooming, works out a lot more, she buys fancy underwear for work.
A combo of those things then the bomb drops about "It was just a kiss. I had a few too many. She's just a friend. You're being paranoid."
Tip: Do not ignore the lessons of these sub readers. They are the ones to say "Trust your gut" early on. Don't ignore odd behavior. They did and got burned.