> For a good counter argument, read https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-That-Demands-Verdict-Life-Changing/dp/1401676707 > > EDIT. I'm not surprised you are all downvoting me, and now I've got an "lol" mocking. > > At any rate, I have a large collection of theological book, written by scholars, doctors, and even half-crazy people. > > If you do not read the other side, you do not understand where they are coming from. > > Futher, studying theology is like studying a language, doubles twice as well if you can speak both.... > > Those are not all my theology books, my books aren't really that organized by topic. > > EDIT AGAIN: One final thought -- I had a middle school English teacher tell me a couple things that really resounded with me. One of which was that everyone should have a library. Most people in the modern world that do this keep them digitally, which is awesome. I grew up in the age where that didn't exist. We had books. I have lots of books. Many of them are books that are totally against what I think/believe/accept/like. I read them anyways, because I'd rather not be ignorant debating for or against something I feel strongly about. > > And again, if you'd like to be stimulated by a thoughtful counter argument, grab the book I mentioned and read it; there is a reason it has sold millions of copies, you can probably find it at an estate sale for a quarter, and its not because early indoctrination, it's because thought process takes more than a reddit post or a snide personality.
Good god the "I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT, SEE, I POSTED PICTURES OF BOOOKS" argument.
Oh and you are an idiot to boot... just saying
The Story is a pretty good resource, it essentially condenses the NIV translation of the Bible down into, well, a story.
As others have said, don’t read it like a novel. It’s not intended to be understood in that way.
What I would do is use bible.com or the Bible app and sign up for one of the whole Bible plans. That will also give you context into what you’re reading and they present themes or sections that go together well.
I personally use ESV as it’s the closest readable translation to what the original was. A lot of Protestant churches use the NIV.
If you do want to get the ideas in a novelization type format, you can use The Story but you’re not directly reading the Bible when doing that.
Hey /u/AidanDaRussianBoi,
When I first started doubting my faith, I spent a lot of time on reddit forums and on Google seeking help. Honestly, most of the time it just made things worse.
I was lucky enough to find a really great church that welcomed doubt and encouraged open discussion. My pastor recommended <em>The Reason for God</em> by Timothy Keller - it changed my life. I highly, HIGHLY recommend reading it, especially at your age.
Uhh... I'm confused. He is "agnostic" (i.e., doesn't believe in the existence of God), but "believe[s] sorta kinda in God"? He isn't an agnostic; he is a polytheist. And also, you said he doesn't believe in "one word the Bible says", but believes in multiple gods because of the First Commandment? The first commandment is biblical, right?
>What are some tips on how to approach this?
Well, I would follow Greg Koukl's <em>Tactics</em>. Instead of presenting arguments, I would ask questions to expose the inconsistencies in their worldview (that's similar to the Socratic method). If you ask questions (genuinely and curiously), you're less likely to provoke a defensive reaction -- and a defensive reaction will only prevent a change of mind. For instance, you could ask, "You said you don't believe what the Bible says, but you also said you accept polytheism because of the First Commandment. So, why do you believe in the first and not in the others? I'm a bit confused.. can you help me understand your view?"
>I'm gonna go ahead and guess you can't actually defend your assertion.
You go on ahead and assume whatever you want. I got more important shit to do rn, and I can't waste time on yet another reddit debate today. Convincing you of Christianity's correctness isn't exactly my top priority. Maybe it should be, but it isn't at the moment.
If you really want to know my core reason for believing Christianity is correct, it's because of this book. Read it, don't read it, I don't care. I think it would really challenge your worldviews, but it's rather long and intensive, and I highly doubt you'll devote that kind of time to a recommendation from a stranger on Reddit. So you see, it's really not worth getting into.
> That's pretty much it yes. I can't say for sure that it didn't happen but I don't feel like there is a way to reliably convince myself that it did happen either. There are too many assumptions; it happened too long ago.
Someone on another thread shared this book with me: https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Case-Christianity-Homicide-Detective-Investigates/dp/1434704696/. Do you find the arguments here compelling?
Haha. Nothing he said actually challenges OP, so his comments don't bother me at all. It is all irrelevant gobbledygook.
However, I'm interested in people who primarily use questions to debate. This tactic of using questions is recommended by religious apologists like Greg Koukl and Frank Turek. Basically the idea is to reverse the burden of proof and put the pressure on your opponent while you just sit down and relax. The opponent has to do all the hard work while you just keep shooting questions.
Apparently that's exactly what this individual is attempting to do here.
To su dva različita kuta gledanja. Teolozi uzimaju vjeru uglavnom zdravo za gotovo, ovi drugi baš i ne.
Ako te zanimaju počeci, doba Isusa i znaš engleski, preporučio bih ti bilo što od Barta Ehrmana, ali uz upozorenje da je riječ o agnostiku/ateistu (bivšem vjerniku).
Ako znaš engleski i imaš puno vremena, knjiga <em>The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant</em> J. D. Crossana (čovjek je vjernik, ali svakako ne tradicionalni, recimo ne vjeruje da je Isus uskrsnuo) je izuzetno opsežna i zanimljiva, ali nije baš jednostavna za čitanje, jer ide u velike detalje tko je jeo s kim itd. i svakako zahtijeva bar osnovna predznanja o Bibliji, istraživanju tekstova itd.
Nema knjige koja bi obuhvatila svih 2000 godina jer je jednostavno previše toga, previše crkava, previše varijanti. Obuhvatiti kopte i kvekere u jednoj knjizi je jednostavno previše.
I've already devoted enough time to online religious arguments.
So I'll just drop this here. Read it or don't, I don't really care. But logic and religion go together just fine if you spend enough time thinking about it and reading different things.
When you have a collection of sources concerning events, you compare consistencies with inconsistencies. While errors do exist in our compiled volume called the Bible, the consistencies overwhelm them. We have a really good idea of the details of the events. The Bible should be treated no differently than any other investigation.
Yes it does
It's important to talk about this and recognize it, I'm not qualified by any means to talk about this. I'm just a student. If you want a much more professional answer, there's a book written by Timothy Keller than talks about some of these issues
I've just started reading Tactics ( https://www.amazon.com/Tactics-10th-Anniversary-Discussing-Convictions/dp/0310101468/), which seems like a generalist's appologetic approach.
I have been most effective by reading the bible and reading their texts. E.g. read the bible and the quran to speak to Muslims. The bible and the Book of Mormon to speak to Mormons. Etc.
I have found that not all Muslims believe the same things and not all Mormons believe the same things. You really have to tailor the message to the individual person you are speaking with. I think, if you are just looking for a list of arguments you can tell Hindus and have them turn to Christ, you are going to be disappointed.
There's a great book on the subject written by a Christian pastor. https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Christian-Nation-Political-Destroying/dp/0310267315 From the description:
The church was established to serve the world with Christ-like love, not to rule the world. It is called to look like a corporate Jesus, dying on the cross for those who crucified him, not a religious version of Caesar. It is called to manifest the kingdom of the cross in contrast to the kingdom of the sword. Whenever the church has succeeded in gaining what most American evangelicals are now trying to get – political power – it has been disastrous both for the church and the culture. Whenever the church picks up the sword, it lays down the cross. The present activity of the religious right is destroying the heart and soul of the evangelical church and destroying its unique witness to the world. The church is to have a political voice, but we are to have it the way Jesus had it: by manifesting an alternative to the political, “power over,” way of doing life. We are to transform the world by being willing to suffer for others – exercising “power under,” not by getting our way in society – exercising “power over.”
Tactics was my first intro into apologetics and I loved it.
Tactics, 10th Anniversary Edition: A Game Plan for Discussing Your Christian Convictions https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310101468/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_427GKWES9HQ91ZVMNBA7
But we can sow the fields.
Tactics is a great book about it.
Tactics, 10th Anniversary Edition: A Game Plan for Discussing Your Christian Convictions https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310101468/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_427GKWES9HQ91ZVMNBA7
I think what you might be looking for is The Story. It is however, not just the first five books but the whole Bible - written to read like a full story.
This detective helped me a lot as I'm very straight facts too:
You'll love the book Cold Case Christianity . It explains how the Gospels are very different, not copies of anything, and how they are eyewitness accounts of the same events. There's enough details to make them different and enough interlocking details that they fill in each other's missing holes that most people wouldn't have noticed.
To answer your question, we should treat the entire Bible
>as if it was absolute and written by God himself
In that case, I highly highly recommend <em>The Reason for God</em> by Timothy Keller. It's the reason I'm a Christian. Honestly the best starting point I could possibly imagine.
There’s an entire field of study, apologetics, dedicated to answering this question. I recommend the book “Evidence That Demands A Verdict” by Josh McDowell
https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-That-Demands-Verdict-Life-Changing/dp/1401676707/ref=nodl_
Seeing how the books of the Bible fit together with a central theme and message despite having 40 authors over several hundred years, most of whom didn’t know each other or all of the other writings was very persuasive to me.
A great evangelism book is Tactics. I think it will answer a lot of your questions.
When people attack you always ask a question back. For example "you are an idiot to believe ...." what do you believe in you ask . O I believe in evolution says the other person. Wow you say you have more faith then me to believe that something came from nothing.
A very good book is from Greg Koukl https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310101468/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_TW1CH616Q3G6XS6MAYCN
Oops, that was supposed to be Cold Case Christianity. https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Case-Christianity-Homicide-Detective-Investigates/dp/1434704696/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=cold+case+christianity&qid=1627609688&sr=8-2
Thanks for keeping an open mind. I don't see that often in these discussions. If you're open to reading more, I recommend Cold Case Christianity. It's written by a homicide detective and former atheist.
Not specific to your request, but this is the apologetics book that a pastor at my Lutheran high school recommended to our faculty and student body: Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World https://www.amazon.com/dp/1401676707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_KE5VMDVD3FCF94ZBD7TY?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1