You can love someone and hate their actions. You don’t have to cut them off completely to gain some relief from the pain they inflict on you. It’s not that black and white. A big problem I’ve struggled with as an ACA is continued loyalty when it’s not deserved. Try to accept that their feelings are not your responsibility, and you don’t owe them loyalty (or a call, or a visit) just for being your parents. Establish and defend your boundaries (I will not talk/respond to my dad if I suspect he’s been drinking, and I don’t tell him when I visit my sister in my hometown bc I know he’ll expect a visit too). Create emotional space for yourself (wait overnight to respond, limit visiting and call time, etc) especially if communicating with them brings you more stress than joy.
And work with a therapist to process your memories and feelings in a healthy way. Mine told me my feelings of guilt and obligation are super common in ACA. I’m working on detaching from my dad’s alcoholism and learning how to put myself first in my own life/mind, realizing I can’t make him change if he doesn’t want to. This book was insanely helpful for me to understand alcoholism and what we share as ACA’s, and to grasp what to do about it. You’re in the right place, you’re not alone, and you don’t have to solve it overnight. Take your time to figure out what’s best for you.
100% yes
Read this book: https://www.amazon.ca/Codependency-Recovery-Plan-Understand-Codependent/dp/1641520833
(Ppl will recommend pia or melody beattie blah blah they are good to read too but not the be all end all. I’ve read a looooot and I recommend you start with what I posted and then move to others)
Yeah. This was the recent description. I have PTSD and anxiety and some other issues. My troubles at work led me to want to FIRE but you can't run from yourself.
Adult Children Secrets of Dysfunctional Families: The Secrets of Dysfunctional Families
Friel Ph.D., John C.
If looking for books, highly recommend:
Perfect Daughters: Adult Daughter's of Alcoholics (If female)
Both were life changing for me. I would think you could find them in a library if money is tight too. Finding ACOA has been so great for me to know that I'm not the only one out there. The hardest part of being a child of an alcoholic is the isolation and shame it creates. So it can take a long time to find out how many people have actually been through similar things, because we're all shamefully hiding our secrets.
There are also all of the Alanon materials that some people find helpful, but that hasn't fit as well for me personally so I can't recommend specifically.
Good luck! I know you'll get out and things will get better!
I also meant to say being adult CHILDREN of alcoholics - it's a very different kind of pain and screweduptenuff. The groups that are people who have a family member dealing with alcoholism do not satisfy the need of ACOA. We have different set of problems. And may I recommend these books: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Alcoholics-Janet-Woititz/dp/1558741127
I read them back when they came out. Made a huge difference for me. Understanding why I did what I did and why? Peace. Understanding is half the cure! The rest you have to do.
I sincerely have to tell you that you have all my respect for being so honest about yourself.
Finding a single answer that can give you a solution isn't easy.
This awareness and the desire to change it is already a starting point.
This book can give you some good insight:
Healing the Shame That Binds You-John Bradshaw
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B016P6GC9A/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?\_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Look at the review; if you resonate with it, I can send you the PDF.
Hey! I’d recommend the Adult Children of Alcoholics Lifeskills book for an “adulting” style book that is more for us. And if you haven’t read it yet, the original ACOA book by the same author was immensely helpful when it came to reckoning with certain lacking social skills.
https://www.amazon.com/Lifeskills-Adult-Children-Janet-Woititz/dp/1558740708
I would highly recommend reading "Healing the Child Within" or "Facing Codependence". The first being number one on my list. Understanding healthy boundaries in relationships makes a huge difference.
https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Child-Within-Discovery-Dysfunctional/dp/0932194400
https://www.amazon.com/Facing-Codependence-Where-Comes-Sabotages/dp/0062505890/
Is this the book you're referring to? ACOA
I've been looking for something to read on the subject. I joined this sub a few weeks ago and have had a lot of "WTF" moments reading comments, realizing my anxiety, difficulty talking to people, especially authority figures, may actually be rooted in my upbringing.
There's an excruciating pointlessness to her back and forth that will become more obvious once you break the spell.
https://www.amazon.com/Codependency-Recovery-Plan-Understand-Codependent/dp/1641520833
Ok as someone that grew up with an alcoholic you really need to know something.
Stop fighting with a bottle
When you engage with an alcoholic while they’re drinking your talking, screaming and/or fighting with a bottle. They won’t remember any of it. Your just driving yourself nuts and when he sobers up he thinks you are nuts. (Never happened, your exaggerating.)
You also go “save” him and bail him out every time. The I got him out before the police got there. Your shooting yourself in the foot. If he wakes up in a drunk tank or a hospital he’d have to admit there was a problem. Your saving him from admitting anything is wrong. He’s on the River of Denial and you keep handing him oars to keep paddling.
Go to Al-Anon, get a therapist, a good book on Boundaries and end the codependent merry-go-round. If you have KU start reading this
Good luck because you truly deserve better!
My father-in-law is a high level functioning alcoholic. My mother is just a regular terrible alcoholic. I found having a little bit of experience with both, that both are incredibly subversive. The notion that you brought out about addressing your mother's drinking at 12 and getting disbarred by your family is so painfully familiar. I found reading the book Perfect Daughters to be really helpful for me in understanding how my mother's alcoholism has affected my adult life so profoundly. Therapy has also been incredibly helpful.
This book::
Adult Children of Alcoholics
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Alcoholics-Janet-Woititz/dp/1558741127
Helped me understand how growing up with alcoholics affected me.
>He’ll later totally forget how HE acted and will only remember how I (poorly) acted.
Are you sure about that? A lot of abusive partners live by a double standard and do not examine their own actions and behaviors, only those of their SOs. They are not stupid, but they will find ways to rationalize the poor behavior they engage in and justify it.
You mention having children, and I think this book may be eye opening for you to look into.
I would also caution against remaining in the marriage if your husband is unwilling to seek help with his addiction. He may get angry and upset, but he needs help to become a healthy and stable person for your relationship, your children, and his own sense of self.
There is only so much you can do. At the end of the day, he must make a decision to get well and show up. No one can choose that for him, which is really difficult for those who love the addict. You should ask yourself how much longer can this go on for without it becoming a massive detriment to you and your children?
This is a very helpful book about “ACOA’s” (adult children of alcoholics). The personality traits we develop being raised in households with an addict in residence are astonishing, it was a shocking read, particularly having children myself. It is very easy to pass on the “negatives” without being addicted.
https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Alcoholics-Janet-Woititz/dp/1558741127
You are here, you already started. Give yourself credit for showing up. here!
If you don't like your therapist, a few things you can do are - tell them about how the approach isn't working for you (trust me it took me a few therapists to realized that they worked for me - you are paying them to support you, so if you aren't happy with the work, you can tell them, and if need be they can refer you to someone who may be a better fit. This is way more common a practice than people may realize - particularly in the US - therapists will not get upset or mad at you if you don't resonate with them, or they may be able to adjust their approach).
The Complete ACOA Sourcebook: Adult Children of Alcoholics: at Home, at Work (https://www.amazon.com/Complete-ACOA-Sourcebook-Children-Alcoholics/dp/1558749608) saved my life -if you do anything, get that book. It helped me realize there wasn't something innately wrong with me, and after more than 10 years in different kinds of therapy, including trauma therapy, I am revisiting it after a series of challenging years with family members.
You are capable of making friends, and you will learn how to love yourself more and more each day. It takes time and you already are showing up for yourself by posting here. Much love to you <3
Cutting your children off because they have a relationship with someone you chose to have children with isn't normal. It's not natural, and it lends to having some mental illness and/or toxicity that supercedes the maternal bond. Demanding absolute loyalty, putting your feelings above everyone else, and refusing to see where you're the problem is indicative of a cluster b personality or the fleas from them. It also doesn't matter if mom has or will ever have a diagnosis of any of it, all that matters is OP may find out more information, realize it extends much farther than her mom walking away after the wedding, and hopefully finds some awareness, support, and healing. Where would you suggest a person go when they're broken-hearted because their parents threw them away? As children, even adult children, we suffer from having toxic parents and being discarded in numerous ways.
OP, ACA program & meetings have helped me so much. The only requirement to join is to have been raised by dysfunctional and/or addicted parent(s). There is even a small book you can purchase on Amazon that describes how it effects us and why. Adult Children It's a program of learning, healing, and empowerment.
This program, namely the support and hearing others share, has helped me more than therapy ever has. There are some great meetings at ITR that don't require you to engage or turn on your cam, you can just listen to others share their stories, wisdom, and hope.
I know the agony. My heart goes out to you.
Great resource. Food for thought.
There’s a book called: Loving an Adult Child of an Alcoholic by Douglas Bey M.D and Deborah Bey R.N I found it so helpful, and I’m the ACoA. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1590771176/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_JTYH97JQY8GQ81BGNJB5 Hope it helps.
Sorry for your loss. When you're in a deep level of pain, as you are now, it's normal to reach for the addiction that you trained yourself to go to any time you felt pain. Like you indicated, you trained yourself to do that for years. Try not to get to wrapped up in shame. I know that's easier said than done, but you're here, seeking help, trying to get back on track. There's no shame in that.
As others have said, it's probably time to see a therapist. Most of all you need a place where you can talk without judgement, a place to get it all out there. You're dealing with two things at once that both will take time to get through.
There's no quick fix for this, but if you put in the time, you'll get where you need to go. She's rooting for you. We're rooting for you.
And if you find yourself especially struggling with the shame side of this, I would suggest this book: Healing the shame that binds you
No.
You should read this book and your DH should read this other book.
You have two children with a man who doesn't know anything but suppressing his own feelings and placating MIL. He's been programmed his entire life to drop everything and serve her. If you want to have a full and complete partnership, and not raise your children in this toxic dynamic, you two are going to have to break away. This is not healthy. Enabling MIL just continues the cycle, teaches your children that her behaviors are okay, and keeps your husband locked in an emotionally abusive cycle that will stifle him as a human being. Yes, it's that bad.
You're both enabling her. Guess what? You don't actually have to spend time with her. You work from home but it doesn't sound like your husband does. You should start setting a boundary that his mother doesn't visit unless he's there. You are WORKING from home, and if she wants to visit with your son she can see him in the evening or on a weekend. She doesn't need to be in your home three times a week, spreading her toxicity. And think about this - if you can't even say no to her inviting herself over, you're never going to be able to say no to her on the larger issues. Start by taking control of your home. Put a stop to it now, before there's a new baby in the mix. Limit your son's exposure to her toxic learned helplessness and self-destructive behaviors. You can't control your husband, but do some reading and learn how to start managing your own responses better and setting boundaries.
I've never read this book, but I've read recommendations for it -- Life Skills for Adult Children: https://www.amazon.com/Lifeskills-Adult-Children-Janet-Woititz/dp/1558740708
I also had emotional abuse and my mother tried to convince me I could've fixed it by being abusive back to him. It was really triggering to have her probing my marriage. So I told my mother, "This is an upsetting conversation for me right now. I don't want to talk about this anymore. Maybe we can discuss it a year from now when I'm in a better place."
All to say. It is COMPLETELY your right to say, "I don't want to talk about this. And if you keep pushing the topic, I have to leave the room (or end this call)."
Also, honestly, do you need people in your life that refuse to trust your decisions?? I'd say, if they can't be respectful, you need to distance yourself from them. If you have kids, sure be polite, but they DON'T have permission to act this way around you anymore.
I'm slowly and painfully working myself through this book https://www.amazon.com/Codependency-Recovery-Plan-Understand-Codependent/dp/1641520833
It's rough -- especially if you absorbed all those expectations when you were very young. I definitely know how it feels.
Two self-help things that have helped me:
There's also a book called Lifeskills for Adult Children (https://www.amazon.com/Lifeskills-Adult-Children-Janet-Woititz/dp/1558740708) that is supposed to be good for helping you sort out what healthy adult relationships look like.
NTA!!!
You are an Adult Child of an Alcoholic. Your parents put themselves and their needs first for many reasons. None of which was your fault.
Please read the book Adult Children Of Alcoholics
This book made be realize why I think the way I do. My mother was also an adult child of alcoholics and she wasn't able to break the chain. This book will help YOU break the chain and it will help tech you the things your parents didn't. Like, how to actually adult.
My mother is emotionally a teenager because of her drug and alcohol abuse. It's affected me many ways. But the one thing I wanted to do was break the chain for myself and for my children.
You can do it for you. if they continue toxic behaviors and toxic patterns like they are exhibiting, it's okay to cut them out. You don't have to stay with abusive family. You can go and learn and be you. Don't ever let them make you feel less than, like they did your whole childhood.
You can stop them from having that power over you. But it comes from within. We know they are not going to change. But you can learn what you've missed out on and be a full adult. Sadly, you didn't have one in your home most of the time. It does sound like your Nan is a wonderful woman and tried her best to help when she could. Keep her close if she's one of the good ones.
I wish you a happy life, friend
Umm its really fucking hard. I understood rationally for decades that i should "love myself " , but it wasnt until the last 3 years of compounded trauma that really drove me to self-examine and find out WHY rather than constantly looking outward.
Meditation is a start, to learn how to put more distance in between yourself and the false beliefs .
Maybe start diagramming , in order to connect the dots with what happened > what that made you feel about yourself. That way helped me to see through some illusions .
Maybe start with this book and workbook:
Healing The Child Within: Discovery and Recovery for Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families https://www.amazon.com/dp/0932194400/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabt1_zgBQFbHMF3RZG
I grew up in a family that had no drug/alcohol problems, but was very abusive nonetheless.
The book “Adult Children of Alcoholics” was invaluable to me in understanding the unwritten rules of my family, how those rules fucked me up and how I carried though patterns into adulthood.
Every chapter was a revelation! Here’s a link if anyone wants this life-changing book:
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Alcoholics-Janet-Woititz/dp/1558741127/ref=nodl_
There's a good book on setting boundaries. It's called Life Skills for Adult Children. It was written primarily for children of alcoholics, but I think the advice generally applies to any adult children learning how to negotiate boundaries with their parents.
Therapy is the solution.
You can start out small with these:
These books can lead you to others that can change your life. It may be good to recommend other members to read some of them as well.