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One of my top three favorite David Fincher movies.
Random thoughts: The scene in the basement is one of the creepiest scenes I've ever seen. Pure mood and anxiety.
The short time-elapse of the building of the Trans-America tower might be one of my favorite uses of CGI ever.
This pre-dates Iron Man by one year, I wonder if RDJ conciously used any of the mannerisms for Paul Avery and held them over for Tony Stark? Obviously they were filmed close together. Or, is it just RDJ is a pure old school movie star, in the vein of Humphrey Bogart, and he just is the role, whatever that role is?
Speaking of Marvel casting, how great is Mark Ruffalo? He was the flat out star of this movie, no question. You know those threads /r/movies has, "So And So Deserves More Credit!", we need one of those threads for Mark Ruffalo.
This is one of the very few instances where the movie is better than the book.
Read "Devil in the White City". It alternates between HH Holmes and the World's Fair.
I know it's Canada, not the US... but London, ON is (unofficially) known as having one of the, if not the, highest density of serial killers compared to population from the 60's to the 80's. It's actually why we have the Block Parent program up here.
I you haven't read this book, it's a good one: https://www.amazon.ca/Murder-City-Canadas-Capital-1959-1984/dp/1460261828
For the uninitiated: do not read Helter Skelter, read Chaos by Tom O'Neill instead. In Chaos, Tom O'Neill proves that a bunch of Helter Skelter is inaccurate.
Has anyone ever read this book? Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder by the late David McGowan. It sounds like it would give you a lot of information you'd be interested in.
I read it about five years ago. It was very interesting and exhaustively sourced, and it was scary how much of this stuff is easily verified. Especially the CIA-connected Finders, who McGowan individually and specifically names.
If anyone wants a copy, I might have a PDF somewhere.
Edit: Does anyone know a site where I can upload the PDF without some drawn-out process for making an account? I could also just email it to everyone that wanted it after this thread dies deep off the front page in a couple days.
I remember about a decade ago I had a friend who was one of those weird serial killer fascination girls. Which like, I get it a little. I like watching documentaries on cults and narrations of creepypasta on the treadmill. But she tracked down like a fan comic on Jeffrey Dahmer, My friend Dahmer, which took it to a whole new level of wtf for me.
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Like, learning about serial killers is I think sort of a sick curiousity. Trying to make them sympathetic or like, stanning them is where it gets weird.
Check out the book The Devil in the White City
Its a really fascinating look at the World's fair in Chicago with going into H. H. Holmes as well. Now I'll warn you, it's a thick book that focuses more on the World's Fair, but it was super interesting.
You should read Chaos.
It makes Vince sound like the last two sentences of Audriannacu's comment are about him instead of Manson.
I respect the hell out of Vince as a prosecutor and after reading Chaos I am also glad I never had to deal with him on a face-to-face or daily basis.
I totally recommend reading the book Helter Skelter, written by Manson's Prosecutor that goes through the case in explicit detail. It is both fascinating and horrifying to read, but a must read for anyone interested in just how one person could convince others to do evil things without explicitly telling them to do so.
The racial component was seriously strange. Manson believed the Beatles had written the song specifically to teach people about this White Apocalypse that was going to happen where Blacks would finally get fed up with how they were being treated by Whites, and rise up, killing any white they saw. He started to get jaded and disenchanted when it wasn't coming as he had predicted and started lamenting that the blacks may need to be shown how to do it. Shortly after this is when the murders happened, and his followers thought they were "Showing" the blacks how to do it. It's why they wrote things in blood on the wall like "Death to Pigs" and "Rise" on the wall, specifically to try to make their crimes look like they were done by aggrieved blacks, using terminology said by some of the black extremist groups.
After the two sets of murders, they fled to the desert of Death Valley, where they waited for "Helter Skelter" to happen, which it didn't. They were caught shortly thereafter.
You need to read Helter Skelter like, now. (not sure what kind of link to give you here, I'm sleep deprived, sorry. Not trying to sell anything, amazon was just handy and Idk the etiquette) Here.
A story about H.H. Holmes, “America’s First Serial Killer” told in the cadence, rhyme scheme and ~meter of the song ‘Alexander Hamilton’ by Lin Manuel Miranda. Because, why not?
More or less historically accurate. If you’re interested in this guy, check out Devil in the White City by Erik Larson. Also a good story if, for some reason, you’re really into park design and American municipal politics of the 19th century.
Happy Friday!
There is some compelling evidence that Ruby "went crazy" due to the fact that the psychiatrist who went to "talk" to him in jail was actually an MKULTRA psychiatrist (i.e. knows how to fuck up people's brains).
Sounds ridiculous, as though we're just mashing together conspiracy theories, but look into it.
It's covered in the book Chaos by Tom O'Neill.
Manson's "family" appear to have been an op as well.
https://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Charles-Manson-History-Sixties/dp/0316477559?tag=search0ce-20
little known is that, even after the Tate/La Bianca killings, arms of this group were killing down into the eighties.
rumour has it that Manson, after taking up residence in the CA jail system for the rest of his life, became the head of drug distribution within that prison system (or someone was using him as figurehead). how do you go from being a "diryt hippy" to that?
things obviously weren't what they appeared to be.
This book answers a lot of related questions -I read it twice last year. https://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Charles-Manson-History-Sixties/dp/0316477559
The Devil in the White City by Eric Larson. 50% of the book follows the elaborate and seemingly impossible construction of the Chicago World Fair and 50% follows the construction of serial killer H.H. Holmes' kill house. Cited on countless "100 books to read in a lifetime" articles.
Edit: Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Devil-White-City-Madness-Changed/dp/0375725601
Zodiac:The Shocking True Story of the Hunt for the Nation's Most Elusive Serial Killer by Robert Graysmith was my favourite one about the Zodiac Killer. [amazon link)[https://www.amazon.com/Zodiac-Shocking-Nations-Elusive-Serial/dp/0425212181] I read the whole thing in less than 2 days
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I tried reading The Most Dangerous Animal of All but idk what it was about it, i only made it half way through and just eh
Final Truth : The Autobiography of a Serial Killer https://www.amazon.com/dp/0963242202/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_r.r.FbN8AT77X
It’s a semi-autobiography as Donald Gaskins didn’t actually write it, but it is the story from his words. He breaks down how he categorized his own murders, how he got away for so long and his life story
I personally wrote Richard Ramirez if you’re interested. I’m going to be handing off my collection of letters to a collector soon, we didn’t speak about his crimes but they are interesting nonetheless.
IMO one serial killer that is often overlooked is Donald “Peewee”" Gaskins. The most in depth interview was done by Wilton Earl who wrote his autobiography in The Final Truth.
The Devil in the White City by Eric Larson. 50% of the book follows the elaborate and seemingly impossible construction of the Chicago World Fair and 50% follows the construction of serial killer H.H. Holmes' kill house. Cited on countless "100 books to read in a lifetime" articles.
Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Devil-White-City-Madness-Changed/dp/0375725601
i did not get the pdf either from that link my intent was to show cover of complete book. on amazon available on paperback format ,https://www.amazon.com/Panzram-Journal-Murder-Thomas-Gaddis/dp/1878923145/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=a+journal+of+murder&qid=1559417842&s=gateway&sr=8-1 no luck.
I can't believe this wasn't posted already. Check out the book Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties. I first heard about it on a Joe Rogan podcast of all things. I speak as a skeptic of just about every conspiracy theory out there (JFK and Epstein are a couple I'm still not sure on). But to hear the author (Tom O'Neill) talk about his findings and research, I'm sure there's something here.
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It's about this secret CIA program of the 60s known as Ultra (and a couple other programs as well), that purported to be able to create Manchurian Candidate-style sleeper agents, and that Charles Manson may very well have been one of their best experiments (though none worked out that we're aware of). There's a lot to this story, and if you won't read the book, at least listen to the podcast. Fascinated me for every second.
The Devil in the White City may get a bit too macabre for your last criteria, but it's a fantastic read. It tells the story of the 1893 World's Fair in Chicago and, in parallel, the story of H. H. Holmes, a prolific serial killer who built a murder hotel.
It's a fantastic thriller of a book that somehow makes the planning and construction of the city as interesting as the rise and fall of the serial killer. It goes into the details about the construction of the place, the architecture and architects, racial tensions, etc. It's really good.
i worked at cito in 21! you’re not giving me much to go on lmao. who were your rayado rangers? that may help me narrow it down
was it by any chance The Devil in the White City?
While I cannot speak for the person you’re responding to, I think they were referring to this well know fact:
Dave McGowan covers this in his book. There were three serial killers, Jeffrey Dahmer, Henry Lee Lucas and I can't remember the other one now. These three killers all had the same military experience essentially. They all wanted to go into fields other than the one they joined the military to for and all three were shipped to the same military base in Germany where they became field medics/nurses. All three were programmed under MK Ultra which is why he theorizes they kept killing when they came home. There is a link to his site and the book below.
Watch Wormwood now. Documentary of the Frank Olson murder - Mk Ultra obviously plays a huge role - totally fascinating. If you want to really get into it - I just finished this book Chaos (https://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Charles-Manson-History-Sixties/dp/0316477559) and it would shock you how many things that program touched that then showed up in popular culture/american life.
Ive been on a scifi kick lately. Project Hail Mary and Recursion are both amazing. I just started Chaos. Its a book about how the FBI had a huge role in the Manson Murders. Manson was part of a government study while in prison plus theres so much newer info. https://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Charles-Manson-History-Sixties/dp/0316477559
If you're into rabbit holes check out Tim Oniell's recent book (link below) laying out slews of evidence that Charles Manson was an agent of the CIA except the narrative there is the opposite. That the CIA and FED were led by radically-hyper conservatives that aimed to quash the counter culture movement (because anti war, anti american exceptionalism, etc) by creating an image of the hippies as filthy drug induced psychotic murderers, by grooming Manson and his followers. If you love conspiracies this book is excellent as well as compelling.
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Book: Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties
I’m a little conflicted after reading the boom CHAOS: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties. So much fraud and cover-ups in that prosecution and there’s no telling what Manson did to her and how he was aided by people such as his parole officer and people with deep ties to MKULTRA etc.