You should show your GF:
>The Journal of Best Practices: A Memoir of Marriage, Asperger Syndrome, and One Man's Quest to Be a Better Husband
What you did is actually very thoughtful and a hopeful sign for the relationship. You want to make her happy, and you're studying how to achieve that goal.
Betcha she'll never find another teenage boy willing to work on a relationship THIS much!
>The problem is I can't come up with punishments
That's not the problem. There are probably dozens of actual problems (both big and small) underlying this situation, and what you need are solutions. Punishment does not create solutions; at best it might create motivation, but as research has shown us again and again, that form of motivation can come with significant negative side effects. Consider that your "solution" to your son's problems is to find ways to make him unhappy (punishment), and what that's teaching him as a problem-solving strategy and as a relationship model: that he stops caring and reacts by making other people miserable isn't particularly surprising.
You need to change your perspective on discipline. You need to stop using methods that are inherently antagonistic and ultimately unhelpful, any start using methods that build relationships and are focused on helping him identify and actually solve his problems.
Take a look at The Explosive Child. It outlines an evidence-based discipline model that focuses on understanding and problem-solving rather than punishment. There are more resources available at the Lives in the Balance website (take particular note of The B Team Facebook group linked there).
>My son is an ass, constantly.
Most of what you described sounds like a normal 8 year old and some of it sounds a little ADHD-ish (with the caveat that no such judgement will be accurate from a few sentences of description).
The fact that you call your son an ass because of his difficulties is concerning and I'm not surprised the doctor's reaction was to tell you to cut out the negativity.
>Doctor says not to punish or be negative. How do I get him to listen without mentally wearing myself to a breaking point.
There are evidence-based discipline models that don't utilize punishment - in fact, the most effective ones tend to absolutely minimize punishment or eschew it altogether. The reality is that punishment simply isn't very effective and is fraught with negative side effects.
If you want a punishment-free model that's effective, I suggest you take a look at The Explosive Child and the additional resources at its website.
So this is, uh, a completely separate topic from the whole teenager situation. I'm content just reading everyone else's discussion about it and not contributing to it.
But I found out about a month ago that I have ADHD, so I've naturally been researching everything to do with it. I found this book, and it's a little bit blowing my mind how much harder I've been making getting my place under control. Reading that and then looking at CC'S insta... Imagine how pretty the Tableaux could look if she followed the rule of "inventory must be less than storage"
Very much agree. This kid isn’t “FuckingStupid,” she has some form of ADHD.
Honestly, even if the parent/child choose not to go the medication route (a good choice), it’s so helpful to have the diagnosis to get rid of the guilt and shame. Just knowing that “focusing” is going to be a primary challenge, even though most people can do it without trying, is a huge help. Having the freedom to accept that the “easy stuff” isn’t going to be easy is life changing in a good way.
I would not have wanted to be medicated, but if someone had taught me in middle school how to use something like Getting Things Done, I think it would have been a huge help to me in College and my early professional years. I do OK now, but I wish I’d spent my teens developing reasonable planning habits, none of that “put the date the huge project is due into your planner on that date!” bullshit that helps nobody.
Second big change: make sure the physical environment is geared toward an ADHDer. This book is a fucking godsend: https://www.amazon.com/Organizing-Solutions-People-Revised-Updated/dp/1592335128. Seriously, it is just the best. Rule number one: ease of stowage trumps ease of retrieval. Bear that one thing in mind when organizing and planning physical spaces, and 70% of the frustrations of day-to-day life with ADHD just go away.
I think the next change, to the “ADHD” diagnosis will be to add the slash into the acronym (Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder for AD/HD) because hyperactivity is not always present. The next change will be getting rid of that last D, because it’s not a disorder so much as a difference that those who have it need to take into account.
I’m honestly not sure if we aren’t in our own way more suited to life in Consumer Culture and Attention Economy land. At least we feel the pain and anxiety right away rather than “powering through it” and bottling it up.
The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome is the best I've found, though it's geared more towards the parents of an Asperger's child. It's also the only resource I've seen that explains Asperger's in females and there are considerable differences between the characteristics in females and males. Relevant to me because my mate is also Asperger's.
You can also use Wikipedia's ability to view earlier versions. Look back about 8 years.
Regarding ADHD specifically, ADHD: A Hunter in a Farmer's World by Thom Hartman is also a great read. It discusses the hunter/ farmer theory in great detail.
That is why there’s a book literally called “A Field Guide to Earthlings”
(someone else on this subreddit recommended it, and yes it's a good read)
>He has said that Mr. M is mean ... I told him Mr. M is nice
If you want your kid to actually talk to you about his problems, he needs to feel his perspective is heard. If nobody listens and actually helps him get to the root of the problem, is it any surprise he escalates to unignorable responses?
You don't solve problems by being dismissive. You also don't solve problems through "time out and privilege loss." You solve problems by gathering information about them - including the concerns of the people involved - and then creating a plan that can address those concerns. Paiger's advice is good, and I suggest you take a look at The Explosive Child for a solid, evidence-based model for problem-solving.
>we did what we could, everything from punishment to rewards-based encouragement. Nothing made any difference. She laughed in our face.
Both of these things are (a) forms of adult-imposed manipulation/force, and (b) do nothing to solve the underlying issues that give rise to the behaviors. "Do better or you'll regret it" / "do better and get a treat" - neither truly address how to do better, and it only exacerbates problems with kids who have a "push me and I'll push back" personality.
I'd suggest you take a look at The Explosive Child and the Lives in the Balance website; both focus on an evidence-based discipline model that is focused on collaboratively solving problems rather than applying force.
Since this does involve talking, it may help to get her uncle a copy as well - he might have to help you jumpstart the process. And definitely take advantage of the resources linked on the website, particularly the B Team Facebook group.
Kohn's book is great but does not contain much in the way of actual strategies to support the philosophy. You would be well served by also reading The Explosive Child, which gives you a practical, evidence-based model for handling problems without punishments or rewards.
A Field Guide to Earthlings: An autistic/Asperger view of neurotypical behavior https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EPYUV2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_NFAXBbFYHDK61
This is cheap, accurate, well-written, and comprehensive. A little dull, by moments, but a great bedtime read.
I understand the concern about going to a doctor and them telling you that’s actually you’re “normal.” As if finding out all the things you’re struggling with are not adhd and therefore there’s a problem because you just can’t figure some things out. I was diagnosed with adhd a little older than you (8-10) and my parents were supportive and I was treated. As an adult (20s) I was worried that if I ever got “re tested” they’d say I don’t have it then I’d have all these concerns about myself.
Check out this book and if it sounds like how you feel it may reaffirm some things for you. I would also recommend just going to the doctor (or a therapist if you want to start there but they can’t prescribe medicine usually).
https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-Revised-Recognizing-Attention/dp/0307743152
>all she can tell me is she’s just really angry and doesn’t know how to control it
And it's the truth. She's dealing with an unbearable pile of difficulties that plenty of mature adults wouldn't handle well. A six year old is much more easily emotionally overwhelmed.
>family and acquaintances say I should be spanking her mercilessly until she fears me
Your family and acquaintances suggest to overwhelm this child with so much pain and fear that she shuts down completely. Your family and acquaintances are, to be blunt, thoughtless assholes advocating child abuse.
>I feel like that wouldn’t really solve my problem as she mostly needs therapy and anger management
And I'm very glad to hear you understand that. Spanking will not teach her how to cope with her emotions (and honestly, neither does any other form of punishment - that's simply not what punishment does). I'm sure you're already doing your best to find her professional help ASAP...
In the mean time, I suggest you take a look at The Explosive Child - it contains a positive and constructive evidence-based model for solving the problems that lead to the outbursts in the first place, by thoroughly understanding the problem situations and coming up with better, workable solutions. (This works for kids who have trauma-induced deficits the same way it works for kids who have deficits due to ODD, ADHD, or autism.) You can find more resources (including some helpful Facebook groups) at the Lives in the Balance website.
If you’d like to learn more about ADHD and women, I highly recommend this book https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Guide-Women-ADHD-Neurodiversity/dp/168403261X
It’s by a therapist who also has ADHD. Good deep dive on the emotional traumas which ADHD women often carry, alongside lots of practical exercises and suggestions for healing and for maximising potential in everyday life.
Medication is the most effective tool for treating ADHD, for sure, but it's not the only thing you can do. Make sure you eat and drink enough through the day and get plenty of sleep. Figure out what coping mechanisms and lifestyle interventions work for you. Russell Barkley has written books full of evidence-based tools you can use: Taking Charge of ADHD (for parents) and Taking Charge of Adult ADHD (for adults with ADHD). You might find both of them useful. Organizing Solutions for People With ADHD might also be helpful.
While it’s ADHD specific, the tips can apply generally to everyone as well: Organizing Solutions for People with ADHD. It’s about organizing your physical space, time and task management, and more.
Check out The Explosive Child. It's basically a detailed, evidence-based process for doing what /u/otk_boi suggested.
Queen of Distraction is great. So is A Radical Guide for Women With ADHD it is a workbook. Good combo of emotional trauma deep dives and practical tips. Big focus on moving past the shame.
A.D.D. and ADHD are often concurrent with another cognitive / learning disability.
The classic tome on this subject is a book called Driven To Distraction by Dr. Edward Hallowell (M.D.) - This may be a good starting place. Finding a good specialist is of course indispensable.
https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-Revised-Recognizing-Attention/dp/0307743152
I was diagnosed at 5 and thought I grew out of it.
I did not. Instead I was just barely coping. Always in trouble at work, always half-finished projects, all my bills paid late, moving every 6 months. Getting help has changed me from being someone who is chronically late to someone that's 5 minutes early.
To all my ladies with ADHD. YOU ARE NOT A FUCKUP OR A FAILURE.
What's changed my world is understanding how my brain and body work and creating sustainable routines in my life. The way I think is different and I have learned to work with myself instead of against it.
You may needs meds, or counseling, or a combination. But you are not a shitty person. Help is out there.
Recommended reading:
Driven to Distraction: Recognizing and Coping with Attention Deficit Disorder
Link to Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-Revised-Recognizing-Attention/dp/0307743152
I picked up the book The Explosive Child and am still in the middle of reading it, but it sounds like SD7's behavior fits right in to what this book talks about.
Kids with troublesome behavior lack skills that come to other kids naturally. The ability to adapt, be flexible, to change gears or to deal with even a minor amount of frustration. If a kid has these skills, they use them! Because obviously it's easier for them to live life with less conflict than it is to incite conflict at every opportunity.
But if a kid doesn't have those skills, they go haywire. It's not that they can handle the situation and they're choosing not to use these skills. No, they simply don't have the skills to handle whatever frustrating situation they're being faced with, even if it doesn't make sense to our adult brains as to why they're having a problem.
They might go nonverbal, they might start repeating themselves mindlessly, they might say "no" to any suggestion to help them, and when threatened with punishment, they go even MORE haywire and blow up.
I'm still reading to discover what kinds of tactics work with these kinds of kids; the main tactic seems to be to problem solve WITH the kid, and head off outbursts before they start.
I have learned through this book that kids who lack these adaptive skills don't have the capacity for manipulation. They might have maladaptive behaviors that look like manipulation, but manipulating requires a LOT more social skills than kids with troublesome behavior tend to have.
Hopefully this book reco helps you the way it's been helping me! https://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Child-Understanding-Frustrated-Chronically/dp/0062270451/
I strongly believe that my depression/generalized anxiety disorder diagnosis in my early twenties was just the manifestation of undiagnosed ADHD- I felt like a failure that needed to be perfect because "easy" tasks were so difficult for me and if I "just worked harder" I could be "normal".
Since my diagnosis and trying medication and reading You Mean I'm not Lazy, Crazy, or Stupid?, most of my depression/anxiety has melted away. This is obviously not a guarantee, and your milage will certainly vary, but I for me, having an explanation for what my brain was doing outside of "you useless fool idiot" helped erase that core belief.
If getting a referral is difficult or you'll be facing a long wait, I'd recommend picking that book up. It's a really approachable read that felt really good for me as an adult figuring out that sometimes my brain just does things differently.
I don't do well in clutter because it overwhelms me so I honestly throw away as much as I can possibly get away with and embrace minimalism. The less stuff you have the less there is to clean. Having fewer clothes forces you to do laundry more, for example, but have 15 pairs of pants makes it pretty easy to ignore laundry. I found this book to be amazingly helpful. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1592335128/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_iHaTFbDW68WRC
thank you for the suggesstion. after looking at that book, amazon recommended this one and the title alone made me cry.
One of the best books I ever read for my own issues with procrastination and organization is the Radical Guide for Women with ADHD. https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Guide-Women-ADHD-Neurodiversity/dp/168403261X
It was the only book that helped. I can’t take stimulants cause they make my hear beat too fast (and didn’t do anything for my concentration and organization anyway). The book helped with self acceptance and I am so much better now - Not perfect but way more functional.
Only reason I went is because I had this one boss that also had ADD and recognized the signs in me. He recommended me this book, which wound up being the push I needed to go get help. Maybe you'll find it useful. It very much changed my life.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0307743152/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_XH91AKDR9ZMAYKE7Z3QQ
In adition to the podcast idea there is a book by Susan Pinsky called Organizing solutions for ADHD, its pretty good
Buchtipp: The Journal of Best Practices. Für manche ist die Diagnose eine Erleichterung, weil damit die Frage ob sie "anders" sind und warum und ob sie vielleicht irgendwie schuld daran haben beantwortet ist. Meine Frau ist im Vergleich zu mir auf der Emotional/Rational-Schiene das exakte Gegenteil zu mir und sie hat mir früher oft "vorgeworfen", im Spektrum zu liegen (Spoiler: tue ich nicht). Damals habe ich dieses Buch gelesen, was mir sehr geholfen hat Asperger zu verstehen.