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In college while pursuing my degree in sociology one of my professors assigned the book Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 it was one of the most powerful books I have ever read. It does not justify their actions but gives perspective on what it takes to make a human go down that path. It explores the societal pressures, views and violence from within. It was not an easy read by any means but it was very thought provoking.
I recently read "Ordinary Men" about how normal polish police went from being civilian normal police to aiding the Germans in the Holocaust and it's scary how many parallels there are. It requires normal civilians and police to all step up and speak against it to stop
Edit: comrade pointed out these were German civilians. They are correct.
"Browning argues that most of the men of RPB 101 were not fanatical Nazis but, rather, ordinary middle-aged, working-class men who committed these atrocities out of a mixture of motives, including the group dynamics of conformity, deference to authority, role adaptation, and the altering of moral norms to justify their actions. Very quickly three groups emerged within the battalion: a core of eager killers, a plurality who carried out their duties reliably but without initiative, and a small minority who evaded participation in the acts of killing without diminishing the murderous efficiency of the battalion whatsoever."
A big thing that struck me: when the police who initially said "no" in front of the rest of the group were later asked how they were able to say no they talked about how they were older and financially independent. The young guys all said yes because they were focused on their careers and hoping for a promotion. I wonder how much of the same mindset controls our police in this country. If the chief of police is smiling at militia run check points, is the 24 year old cop ready, mentally but financially, to question him?
I read a book a couple years ago that was interviews of German soldiers that survived D Day. Super interesting and worth a read.
D DAY Through German Eyes - The Hidden Story of June 6th 1944 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VX372UE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_FM9fBb66MB71E
I think this is it. https://www.amazon.com/DAY-Through-German-Eyes-Hidden-ebook/dp/B00VX372UE
It's hard to imagine being overwhelmed like that, just waves of men and material swarming inland and there's nothing you can do to stop it. All after years of being sold on the superiority of your forces.
>As an abstract principle, civil discourse is regarded as a virtue. However, one should neither mistake a façade of respectability for civility nor be prepared to sacrifice core democratic principles to achieve civility.
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>That point was driven home by Richard Evans in <em>The Coming of the Third Reich</em> when he explained how the Nazi Party, which lost the 1932 election, was able to seize and consolidate unchallenged power in 1933.
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>"It is in the nature of democratic institutions," Evans noted, "that they presuppose at least a minimal willingness to abide by the rules of democratic principles." But it is extremely dangerous, either in the name of "civility" or "bipartisanship," to yield to those who seek nothing less than the destruction of democracy—a point Evans drove home by quoting Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels's harsh reference to the "stupidity" of democracy. Goebbels proclaimed: "It will always remain one of democracy’s best jokes that it provided its mortal enemies with the means by which it was destroyed."
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Civility that goes perpetually unreciprocated starts to look like complacency and fear.
You might want to read ordinary men. It goes into a lot of detail on the explanations that soldiers came up with to justify their actions to themselves. One big theme was duty, basically "If I don't do this gruesome thing, the next guy in my unit will have to do it and that's not ok". Probably the one anecdote that stuck out to me the most was a soldier who would only kill children because he felt like he was freeing them from living lives as orphans since everyone else was killing their parents.
edit: This book focuses on a the history of a specific battalion working the final solution on the Eastern Front. If I recall correctly the men were reservists from an area of Germany that wasn't particularly pro-Nazi and were very "ordinary".
This entire post misses the mark. We're not calling them to arms, we're mocking them and pointing out their against tyranny stance has no litmus test they will actually apply. Their use of guns is partisan. This is the predicted step we all knew was coming: right wing support for police will be support for the gestapo as long as gestapo target their political enemies.
I recently read "ordinary men". Polish authorities interviewed polish police that aided the Germans in the Holocaust for ten years. Between those interviews and police documents we can see how ordinary law enforcement are coerced into aiding genocide. It's horrifying how familiar reading all that stuff is into today's light. I'm not saying genocide will occur but law enforcement mentality towards everything occuring is wrong. The mentality they are breeding is primed for dark things
https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution-ebook/dp/B01G1F0F84
No reason to go through life this ignorant, bro. You're only hurting yourself in the end.
Start here
The Coming of the Third Reich (The History of the Third Reich) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0023SDQGW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_YkiJBb4QNF142
I strongly recommend this book for both learning things and getting depressed.
Awesome book I found from Reddit was Spearhead.
I read most of the books listed in this thread and this one flew under the radar and is really good. All about tank warfare in the Wester European Front of WW2 from an American and German gunner perspective. Both of whom were in the Battle of Cologne and the two gunners faced each other in a Pershing and Panther tank and their dual was actually filmed by Andy Rooney.
The 2 volume title D Day Through German Eyes is well worth a read. It features the interviews and recollections of German veterans of D Day on the battle's 10th anniversary in 1954.
https://www.amazon.com/DAY-Through-German-Eyes-Hidden-ebook/dp/B00VX372UE
DM if anyone needs to get a complimentary epub copy
Da, primeau, in urma pactului Ribbentrop-Molotov.
E o carte foarte interesanta, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, care arata, din diverse surse precum minutele inregistrate ale diverselor sedinte/intalnire la care au participat Hitler si ceilalti nazisti de top, cam ce le trecea astora prin cap.
Hitler, de exemplu, n-avea nici un interes sa cucereasca Anglia, si era ferm convins ca pana la urma Anglia il va lasa sa domine Europa, atata timp cat ar fi fost lasata cu imperiul ei. Cand Anglia n-a fost de acord cu pacea, Hitler se plangea ca "nu-i intelege pe englezi", si credea ca, in timp, vor ajunge totusi la o intelegere.
Avand in vedere atitudinea asta, e clar ca, d.p.d.v. a lui Hitler, razboiul in vest era terminat. Tine cont ca la 21 iunie 1941, SUA inca nu intrase in razboi (Pearl Harbor a fost pe 7 decembrie). Plus ca, Hitler si toti nazistii au subestimat grav aportul SUA la un eventual razboi.
Nazi's were never leftwing. Fascists' use leftist policies to trick workers into voting/ supporting them.
I suggest you read a book about Adolf Hitler, I've had this conversation far too many times.
In a similar vein, I highly recommend reading 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' by William L. Shirer. What we learn in school about this topic does not even scratch the surface and you can gain a lot of insight into current events by learning about the past. These days it's simply not possible to make an apt comparison with Nazi Germany unless you actually have an understanding of what it means.
They sure did. I'm reading a book right now called "D DAY Through German Eyes - The Hidden Story of June 6th 1944" Amazon link that features lengthy interviews with German soldiers who manned the gun emplacements at Normandy. It's fascinating to read the German perspective of D-Day. The troops were awed by the amassed allied firepower, with ships stretching out to the horizon and a parade of aircraft flying overhead.
They are brainwashed, pure and simple. Pretty easy to do, too:
Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland
D DAY Through German Eyes parts 1 and 2. Incredible read all the way through. Written by a German journalist whose job during the war time was to write propaganda articles for German newspapers. His work brought him behind the lines of the sea wall in Normandy before the D DAY invasion. Years after the war, he tracked down many of the soldiers he interviewed and collected oral histories of their personal experiences during D Day and their feelings about fighting for Germany. He never published these for fear that they would be misconstrued as Nazi propaganda (NOTE: these are anything but Nazi propaganda, but many of the soldiers share a lot of confused and mixed feelings about what their time in the army actually meant). After he died, his son found the manuscripts and had them published. Very interesting look at the war and the invasion from a point of view that's rarely been written about.
To be fair, I think the reason posts like this just drive people mad is because it obviously separates those who are familiar with actual fascism and the Nazis with those who are riding the latest political wave. It's a 75 year old dead foreign religion, and it took millions of lives to end it.
Read Mein Kampf, it's a horrible book that doesn't make any sense. It's basically written for people who lived in a 50 mile radius of Austria in the 1930's and you can't even follow it in a modern context. This was the book?!?!? Are you kidding me?!?!
Even better, read this book.
Amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XD76H41?ref_=cm_sw_r_apann_ts_9ZGPSG0P3N7ZGGTDBC5Z
Your only take away will be WTF, Hitler was a mad moron and if the Germans had anyone else in power in the 1930's-1940's, we'd all be fucked.
I have no idea why we keep going back to this well, but it was an error in human history.
Let's assume he is "sick", what is some medicine? Education maybe? I highly suggest you read this book and reflect deeply. 1/3 of the people enjoyed the murder (maybe you), 1/3 hated it but did it anyway, 1/3 refused.
https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution-ebook/dp/B01G1F0F84
There's actually a book written about how drug fuel the Nazis were in WWII
Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich
That's not to say the US didn't do the same thing.
If you want to know just how fucked Nazi Germany was, and how they went from rhetoric to mass genocide: "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William L. Shirer
https://www.amazon.ca/Rise-Fall-Third-Reich-ebook/dp/B07XD76H41/ref=tmm\_kin\_swatch\_0?\_encoding=UTF8&qid=1670119474&sr=1-1
A worthwhile read to that point
Of course, ordinary people carried out the holocaust.
There is an entire book dedicated to the why and how ordinary people did such awful things. If you want to educate yourself:
https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution-ebook/dp/B01G1F0F84
it's not just "fear". it's apathy, it's "just following orders", it's years of scapegoating and dehumanizing "the others", it's blind patriotism and nationalism, it's "doing evil for the good of the nation", it's "doing evil so my brothers and sons don't have to", etc etc
You should read this book called Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland if you've never read it.
Politicians weren't the ones pulling the triggers and burying bodies. The atrocities against the Jews and other minorities were not committed by a handful of powerful people. Thousands upon thousands of people had a part in it. Too many people think that there is nothing they can do.
A very interesting book on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution-ebook/dp/B01G1F0F84
A link to the actual bill which I think you will find is being wildly misrepresented. The controversy arose from a comment by Rep. Fowler Arthur regarding the prospect of learning about the Holocaust by examining perspectives of both the victims and the perpetrators. Something that is incredibly valuable to do. Here is a book that anyone interested in how things like the Holocaust could happen should read.
https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution-ebook/dp/B01G1F0F84
Horrific...
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Interestingly, I just read a book called Ordinary Men and it tells a story of how a police reserve battalion became one of the Nazis most efficient killing machines. It shows how many Nazis back int he Nazi Germany era didnt want to commit horrific crimes but eventually became desensitised to it and ultimately very efficient at it. Sad those these asswipes in the article actually like it. Nut jobs!
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution-ebook/dp/B01G1F0F84
<em>Ordinary Men</em> and the Milgram Experiment says that most of us would not stand up when asked to do horrible things. Obedience and authority are powerful psychological things, especially so when combined with brainwashing as happened in Nazi Germany. We all think we would do the right thing but the regular people who carried out atrocoties when asked to do by their evil superiors were normal people too. We have no idea how we would react under extreme stress and pressure from authority figures we trust but most of us would be horrified by what we would do in those situations. It's not that everyone in Nazi Germany was evil(again, not counting the higher-ups who absolutely were), it's basic human psychology.
Good time to recommend a very good book on this very subject read in college, <em>Ordinary Men</em> by Christopher Browning. It's from 1992 but I only graduated a few years ago so it's still very much up-to-date. It's about a regiment of Hitler's kill squads on the Eastern Front and talks all about the sociology and psychology of genocide. Highly recommended.
As a destroyerman myself, I highly recommend "Japanese Destroyer Captain" by Tamaichi Hara.
Japanese Destroyer Captain: Pearl Harbor, Guadalcanal, Midway - The Great Naval Battles as Seen Through Japanese Eyes https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CW0T4HQ/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_70MC1FYMK4GMYXBH527G
He was one of Japan's most successful destroyer commanders in WWII and helped pioneer long range night torpedo tactics before the war.
The obvious book from the American perspective is "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" but that's just one of the best history books period!