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Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents?
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“I liked you better when we weren’t speaking, Mom” ��
Sorry, I know burning bridges is not always what people want/need, but wow you really nailed so much tone/script here. And people who say these things know that the things they say to us have more impact, negative or positive, because of their role in our lives is trusted and close (or it was) but they choose to use it to manipulate instead of support.
Try to remove yourself a step or three from the situation and think about what it would take for someone who loves you and wants you safe and well, to say things like this. What would it take for you to say things like this to someone you love? Even if you think they made a bad choice, ‘I liked you better the other way’ is a ridiculously self centered and petulant approach.
You should be able to expect better, but this person, for whatever reason, has some kind of deficit in their capacity. Their emotional intelligence is at a deficit. I really don’t know how much of that is a choice, or it’s just how some people are wired. Either way, you keep exposing yourself to harm if you keep being vulnerable to someone like this, though. You’ll be safer if you can say ‘well they aren’t capable of being the person I need; I need to manage my expectations of them, because I can’t trust them to be thoughtful.”
I can’t help but recommend this book - Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, if this is coming from a parent. It would probably still be helpful if it’s not a parent.
You were not born to be the prettiest figurine on this person’s knickknack shelf. Don’t feel obligated to do so, or guilty for not doing so. It’s not an expectation a reasonable person would set.
(Hmm I think you hit a nerve or three ;)
Yeah, if you've grown up your entire life being gaslit, scapegoated, and trained to take responsibility or make excuses for your immature parent's bad behavior, it becomes your natural way of doing things. I picked up and read this book almost on a whim a while back, and I was amazed at how much it resonated with me. My situation is a little bit different from yours; I don't think either of my of my parents really have textbook NPD or BPD (which it seems like your mom does) - they were more, I dunno... Disinterested and immature, maybe? Anyway, I feel like reading that book helped me to identify patterns of behavior I didn't even realize I had developed, and had started repeating with my own kids. Anyway, point being, I think most everyone assumes their family is "normal" by default, and never really examines these patterns of learned behavior from an objective place unless something pushes them to do so.
That being said, consider that your dad has most likely been suffering your mom's shit with a smile since before you were born, but seeing the narcissistic abuse turned toward you was the last straw for him. Don't directly involve yourself in your parents relationship, but it's good that you have each other. You probably both have some things to work through and healing to do. Good news is, once the dust settles, you get to have a real mature adult relationship with one of your parents, at least!
My parents did the same thing. I had come out to them once before and then went back in the closet then came out to them again and then went public and full time within 2 months and I didn’t tell them beforehand that I was going to come out. Their response? “Well you should have told us so we could prepare people that we know”
It’s not their transition and they don’t need to prepare anyone. They are emotionally immature parents and you should read a book called:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_z0hVCb2KZADP3
It’s a really good read and will help you learn how to deal with them.
YTA - you're not entitled to financial aid from your son.
>Even though I cooked and cleaned and did everything for him, just because of this one thing
Wow you cooked and cleaned and provided for the child you chose to have? Look at you, doing what you're supposed to!
>Can I fix him?
That question says so much about you. I think you should buy this book for your son, he will probably find it helpful:
NTA, I suspect your mom is fundamentally emotionally immature.
This book is a life saver:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_Qc.1FbZ0TDTS3
To anyone dealing with parents like this, I recommend this book: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
It helped me recognize all the different behaviors that are related and validated to me that I wasn't crazy thinking their behavior was harmful. It also has some advice about how to protect yourself and maintain (or not) a relationship with someone like that.
I can’t speak to the processing on your own as I’m terrible at that, but I can recommend a book that may help. It’s incredibly dense and you’ll likely have to piecemeal reading but it’s a fantastic resource.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
Best of luck
I feel you! I have family a lot like this. I am not exactly sure if they are narcissists, but there is definitely a lot of emotional immaturity. The lack of just understanding emotions makes meaningful relationships and conversations really hard. Also, they just don't understand sarcasm whatsoever. I just ordered this book after reading about it in another post, maybe it sounds interesting to you, too https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Her name is Lindsay Gibson and she is awesome! Her son is a Redditor and sent my thanks to her and she wrote the sweetest response to me! I wish she was my (mom) therapist!
Yes. From what we know about BPD, it's partially onset by a genetic factor of higher emotions than most people. What completes the onset is being raised in an emotionally invalidating environment. Abuse or neglect of our (high) emotional needs can very well stunt your emotional growth into full on BPD.
You mention your parents a lot. This book is free to read on Amazon Prime and it's wonderfully insightful to what you may have experienced with the parental situation you're describing.
I've been reading this book: https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/
It tells how our "externalizer" immature parents expect us to make them feel better. They are self-involved. How they turn us to "internalizers" who always feel like there is something wrong with them. End we end up finding other externalizers in life.
So this "externalizer vs internalizer" dynamic start in the family.
Who expects it from you? Your siblings? or your aunts and uncles?
NTA, sounds like your dad is abusive and your mom is passively too by enabling his behavior. I think this book will help you! Its life changing.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_ZrXaGbB1V52F7
NTA oh babe... your dad is a dick. Not only do you not sound spoiled or entitled, you sound incredibly thoughtful and considerate. And the way you’re taking care to try to make sure we don’t think your dad is a jerk... makes me wonder if he’s been this emotionally abusive for your entire life. Because let’s be clear: pulling these strings in the form of college tuition is emotional abuse.
I think you should spend a little money on this book and see if it helps. It was life changing for me.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_8To9FbF373H9P
NTA. You mom is at best benignly manipulative and at worst abusive. I wonder if maybe you would benefit from this book:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_NVDKFbHQ6SVPP
That sucks RIP your NES. Sounds like you had an emotionally immature parent. Hope things are ok for younow.
Going to keep plugging this book because I think it is awesome and might be helpful to a lot of people here.
"Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents" https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/
Fucking THIS. Susan Forward is great!!! OP, also consider asking your fiancé read this one
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_iw2bGb7WH7CD1
NTA. Your parents are fucked up.
Every person I’ve recommend this book to and has read it has thanked me profusely. I think it is important you read it!
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_OrN.Fb6V821PH
YTA. You are an asshole. This is what confuses me about parents who fucked their kids up to a point where they cannot function normally as an adult: how can you be sorry for what you have done and at the same time acquit yourself of all responsibilities?
Edit: now I remember, I’m not confused anymore. This is the explanation - please recommend this book to your daughter: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I resent my family for not preparing me for life. They used to me to validate their emotions.
I can have sympathy for them when I read books about immature parents. https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
But I feel your struggle.
OP I would invite you to try to view your mom objectively where you judge your mother by her actions and not her stated intentions of love and care for you because how she acts is hurting you. I’ve read some books that really helped me understand my moms actions and helped me come to terms with the relationship https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I read your other post in AITA and between that and the details you‘ve mentioned here, your mother is displaying some massively toxic and abusive behavior. I don’t know if she’s a narcissist, but she is abusive, full stop. You aren’t over thinking anything.
I recommend this book. It absolutely saved my life:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_3A63FbAWN8S64
Please don’t listen to this person, these aren’t “personality quirks” of your mom — your mom is straight up crossing boundaries and it’s inappropriate and unacceptable. You are NTA at all, not even a little bit.
I don’t know exactly how old you are, but this is appropriate reading for a teenager even though the title says it’s for adult children. I think it will serve you well. It will explain both your mother’s abusive and your father’s enabling behavior:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_eq.0FbSY4GN73
I wouldn't call the relationship between an abuser and a victim love.
I don't know as much about daddy issues but I do know that if a child does not have a sensitive, present, and empathetic mother nurturing them, they will not grow up with a secure attachment. Not having a secure attachment can look like hypersexuality, never letting people "in", being too desperate or too avoidant, and generally not being capable of having healthy relationships and boundaries.
source: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I was looking to see if anyone had recommended this book already! It's aimed at adults who realized things later in life than you have, but I found it extremely helpful at reframing some of the things I experienced growing up. OP, If you can't get access to therapy right away, it may be worth checking your local library to see if they can get this in for you.
https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I hear ya. That's my same situation too - the overt narcissist dad and the covert narcissist mom. She loves shit talking other people for a number of reasons. It took a long time for me to realize impact that my mom had on my life. And a lot of it was from her inaction. That stuff still counts. Hopefully you found the raise by narcissist subreddit. It's been super helpful for me. I actually found it way before I figured out that my mom was a narcissist. I would read things from it and be like, wow this sounds just like my mom, but she can't be a narcissist because she has super low self-esteem! It was before I found out about covert narcissism. Oh and there's this book you should read if you haven't already. Also here's the link to this book that was super helpful for me. It read like the story of my life. It was super validating. book
Maybe this fits around reparenting as it helped me find better space for me around how my parent treats me.
Adult Children of Emotionally immature parents
My trauma therapist recommended it after I asked for resources around be there better for myself. It’s shorter and has good explanations & antidotes to further detail the point. Might help as well since I noticed many of the 4 types of emotionally immature postures in many of my exes /friends that I struggled with. Plus the book gives a good reframe to about struggling with different types of immature behavior.
Best luck and all the best!
Here’s a link to the book I mentioned - Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_S567NVJVSPV1CWAC7GAG
Oh, so Ann's extroversion is what's real. Makoto's introversion is so unrealistic. Its not like she lost two parents, is being ranged by a emotionally distance and verbally abusive guardian, is part of a real-life high school leadership program and trying to get into college in a country with many brutal barriers college that leads to one of the highest suicide rates among teens or anything. Maybe, just maybe, she's more realistic than you think? I'm sure if she didn't have to think about those things and was parentless like Ann, she'd be just as bubbly. But sadly, Makoto is living in a harsher world while Ann can ride her good genes until she's 60.
Hello, I'm so sorry I havent replied sooner. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=sr_1_1?crid=23ESOKPRWOFYW&dchild=1&keywords=adult+children+of+emotionally+immature+parents&qid=1607379145&sprefix=Adult+child%2Caps%2C225&sr...
I won't advocate for piracy but if you were so inclined it's probably somewhere as a PDF.
This book has a lot more in-depth information on how to deal with these types of familial situations and is free to read w/ Amazon Prime. I hope that it is helpful to you!
It sounds like she somehow failed to grow up, should not have had small beings who needed to depend on her i.e. children, and was looking towards all these men to care for her. Now she's looking to you.
60s isn't necessarily that old. I run a small service business, take classes to improve my skills, and tutor on the side for extra money. Unless she is disabled, she should be able to pick up some work. She can apply for food stamps and Social Security. There are plenty of seasonal jobs in retail. She can go to a temp agency.
Check out a book called "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents".
Just because she wants you to think she is helpless, or maybe she actually believes it, this does not oblige you to agree either her.
It would be good for you to start with deciding on some of the easier boundaries. Would you ever be open to giving her money? If so, how much? $0 is ok, too. Would you ever be open to letting her live with you? No is a fine answer. Once she moved in, she might never move out. Your mental health qould go on the sitter, and your relationships with anybody you live with--partner, kids, roommates, etc.--Would suggest tremendously.
Find out about elder services in your area. If she has no assets to speak of, then she is actually better off if you're not supporting her in any way. Make sure you are absolutely crystal clear with her from the outset that you are not taking her in, no matter how much mascara runs down her face, so she will be motivated to get her name on every single housing amd assisted living waiting list there is. Tell her your help (if you want to offer it all) is contingent upon her cooperating with you and helping herself, otherwise you will vanish and she can figure her shit out all alone.
Get this book, on kindle if you don’t want her to see it. And do everything possible to get on your feet so you can leave. I’d also recommend the raisedbynarcissists subreddit.
Just to validate your thoughts, it actually is my job to diagnose BPD and what are describing very much would prompt me to explore this as a diagnosis. Some of what you presented also maps onto other possible personality disorders, especially narcissistic personality disorder.
As others have identified, this is unlikely to change in the future and I would strongly urge you to think in terms of boundaries and carefully consider what vulnerabilities you are prepared to reveal.
Your partner would likely also benefit from individual therapy as he is unlikely to recognise how extreme his family is, likely has significant skill deficits which prevent him from being assertive, and I’d be willing to bet a whole lot of complex trauma too.
Learning everything through therapy can get expensive, so I also really recommend this book.
Best of luck!
Hang in there -- there are lots of us out there who have had to grow up too early because our parents weren't grown up enough. It doesn't make her a monster; she probably doesn't consciously understand what she's doing. That still doesn't excuse what she has done.
It's going to be rough on you when you start calling your mom out on her manipulating behavior-- you and she have established a routine (she's at fault, she cries, and you comfort her), and she will really resist when you change the pattern. But this is something you will have to do to set boundaries with her. (I wouldn't be surprised if you find out this behavior contributed to your parents' divorce.)
You should read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It's really helped me.
And meanwhile, call some friends and ask them to go look around. Maybe if they set out water, the turtles' favorite food and a safe cozy box the boys will come home. 🐢💛
I'm in the same boat, currently going through therapy to try and figure things out.
If you're going down that road, know that it's ok to try other therapists if it doesn't click with the first one you try. I've often seen the advice to look for a therapist that specializes in trauma/cptsd.
I also recently read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It has helped me understand the situation better and make progress towards letting my true self express itself.
Good luck! Wishing you the best on your journey <3
This book was recommend by the therapist and I have already shared it with three friends, it’s so good:
I think having insight into your triggers and most importantly being able to have open honest conversations with your kids is helpful. My parents didn’t know how to talk to me (they didn’t really want to connect with me though) so that made it problematic. It’s easy to deal with peoples triggers when you can discuss how it affects them and affects you. That takes being able to be vulnerable
Highly recommend Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. I read it several years ago with parent issues in mind, but now I think I may need to pick it up again for tips for dealing with a non-relative who's being an emotionally immature bully.
Absolutely, sounds like a lot of toxicity and OP is making huge strides in breaking those unhealthy patterns.
I also have a mother who cannot take any criticisms/jokes and goes into "I should just give up then" or "I'm a horrible mother." While she has had some improvement, most specifically when we (sis and I) deliberately preface "mom, you may feel some way about this, but it's not our job to manage your emotions," she still plays passive aggressive, woe is me. I've had to distance myself.
OP - you may find this book helpful too Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
This one really helped me, it laid out a lot of the toxic patterns, made it easy to recognize them when the narc does them.. or if I was heading into doing them too.
​
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Agreed with everyone else here, you may find the book "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" helpful--my husband's father sounds a lot like yours and that book made him feel seen in a big way.
I'm going through the same thing. I just finished this book and it puts this stuff in perspective.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents - would recommend it for women as well, but unaware men who are dealing with this are not being forgiven for their hardships in adulthood by anyone.
Highly recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It was recommended in my other bumper group so I'm paying it forward!
Actually, it's been super helpful for me in learning how to handle my mom's behaviors.
Sounds like your trying to do what's best for your family and you may need to be more direct with her about her expectations. My mom keeps my son once a week, but I don't see her outside of that unless it's a family event or something. Sometimes I get the "I miss him and want to stop by!" (On a Friday when she saw him on a Monday, mind you) and I'll usually let her but it's only because I know she doesn't stay long.
You can read any book for free with libgen. You need to read this book, and all her books, look at youtube interviews with the author. Stay hard my friend. Guess what, I think you are pretty fucking cool, you had the guts to come online, spill your truth, look for help, that took guts
I honestly just read a self-help book about this relationship dynamic - https://www.amazon.com.au/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703?ref_=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=5e850759-3d53-4d44-8fd8-cb110ba9c756
Highly recommend. Sorry you're not getting the love and support that you need during your tough times
Therapy for sure, but if that's unaffordable right now or if the wait lists for therapists are long in your area, this is a very helpful book as well.
r/raisedbynarcissists and r/Parentification might also be helpful subs for support.
I wish I mentioned this earlier, but maybe this book might help? My husband and I are reading through it to better understand my narcissistic parents, his emotionally distant parents, and how we both can cope with the situations we’ve been given. I cannot guarantee it will change everything, but it might offer some insight ❤️ https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_sspa?adgrpid=56079387356&gclid=Cj0KCQjwguGYBhDRARIsAHgRm4-THUsrG4gfRRsgJIAIAIS2xKpBvCZBRHY6QolMnOIoEeUNPYhXknUaAvQUEALw_wcB&hvadid=617005252020...
YTA
Here, buy this for your daughter. She’s going to need it if she’s going to continue dealing with you for the rest of your life. I’d suggest you read it too, but I doubt it’d do any good…
I mean, yes.
If you grew up with an emotionally immature, unavailable, or selfish parent, you may have lingering feelings of anger, loneliness, betrayal, or abandonment. You may recall your childhood as a time when your emotional needs were not met, when your feelings were dismissed, or when you took on adult levels of responsibility in an effort to compensate for your parent’s behavior. These wounds can be healed, and you can move forward in your life.
In this breakthrough book, clinical psychologist Lindsay Gibson exposes the destructive nature of parents who are emotionally immature or unavailable. You will see how these parents create a sense of neglect, and discover ways to heal from the pain and confusion caused by your childhood. By freeing yourself from your parents’ emotional immaturity, you can recover your true nature, control how you react to them, and avoid disappointment. Finally, you’ll learn how to create positive, new relationships so you can build a better life.
Discover the four types of difficult parents:
- The emotional parent instills feelings of instability and anxiety
- The driven parent stays busy trying to perfect everything and everyone
- The passive parent avoids dealing with anything upsetting
- The rejecting parent is withdrawn, dismissive, and derogatory
A dad here.
I would recommend you read this book, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.
Your parents, among other things, sound like they are emotionally children. You are still young and I am glad (and proud!) that you are already taking steps to grow and mature. It is not easy. Being emotionally unavailable is really hard on you, and please be aware it can impact you and your current/future relationships in unhealthy ways.
Apart from the food issues this resonates with me and my upbringing. You are already aware that this is not normal so you have a head start on fixing it.
I wish you well. Find mature adults that help guide you along the way - may be family, may be friends family, neighbors, etc. It will help. Knowledge is power and you will be fine. Take care.
NTA. This is incredibly immature behavior on the part of your dad. The mocking faces and snide comments are emotionally abusive. This book is a resource intended for adults, but maybe someday it will be helpful to you: <3 https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
start with this book, you grew up in trauma, it only makes sense you have (most likely) symptoms of PTSD, anxiety, panic, depression etc. you can get through this, and the best route is the one you take right now. the route that works for you today. If that means reading blogs, books and posting that is your route. No shame, no judgement,
This isn’t just “needy”- she’s doing one of two things (or a combo thereof): 1. Trying to mold him into everything she needed to be looking for in a stable partner all those years 2. Reversing her role as a parent onto him
You really do have to figure out how to handle this if you want a real relationship. SO will never be able to be the primary partner to you and to his mom - and having a parent do that kind of thing creates a lot of messy and traumatic stuff that’s probably hard for him to even identify. Here’s a great book if you’re serious about tackling this issue together- you will feel like the curtains are pulled back and you can finally understand some of the inner workings of this issue! Pretty easy read too. Hits right on the issue you’re talking about. Hopefully some healing for SO too.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents By Lindsay C Gibson https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Blessings and hope this turns into a situation full of healing and team building!
I'm so sorry your mom can't step outside of her own fantasy and love you for who you are. Your reply was perfect, though.
You may find Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents to be a good read. https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
It's tough. Taking time away was difficult but definitely gave me time to sort myself out - to actually think about my own feelings and needs instead of sacrificing them to keep someone else happy. This book helped me a lot and gave me a basis for reengaging on my terms.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this, OP. It's so hard to have a tumultuous relationship with your parent, especially when you're still a kid and living at home (am not sure your age but assuming you're a teenager based on this post).
I'm no psychologist, but OP from the sounds of your description, I can tell you this goes way beyond personality types. Your description of "I can't match her emotional needs" and "walk on eggs" while at home are major red flags to me. It is not developmentally appropriate for a parent to rely on their child for emotional support, and you should not live in constant fear of a parent's emotional outbursts.
Is it an option for you to seek counseling/therapy? If not, there are a lot of resources online to deal with difficult parents. One book that may resonate with you is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson. While it sounds like you are not yet an adult, there are very useful descriptions in this book that may help you make sense of the dynamic in your family/home.
Again, I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Best of luck OP.
I am currently reading "Adult children of emotionally immature parents," and it has helped me immensely to figure out why my mother's actions affected me as they did.
I highly recommend you read this book, OP. The behavior that you are describing here is exactly something that such parents do.
I'm so sorry. I can see why this would be stressful for you. You might like to read the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson. You can read it or listen to it for free on the Libby app (just need a library card number).
The best thing you can do is learn to set boundaries early on and make decisions that are best for you & your wellbeing. If you want to remain living with your dad, it's ok for you to do that. If you want to go live with your sister (if that's a real option), you can do that too. You get to decide.
My husband and I have been reading this book as an attempt to understand his crazy family after going no contact recently. It calls out this phrase specifically and has been incredibly eye-opening. I now want to share it with everyone!!
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_VSDN74Z9GJEMKF26QK01?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Trust your mentor. Excellent advice until you truly come to grips with your issues. When I was in my 20s I married someone who behaved the way I expected in a relationship, which was self-centered, controlling, angry, violent. Did not end well.
A lot of people on this list (including me) found a lot of great explanations about this phenomenon in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Not BPD specific and not all BPD people have childhood trauma, but as a lot of us do, I thought I'd share: Currently reading Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and finding it helpful and validating. Mostly with providing an external confirmation that yes, my parents failed as parents in some very important ways, and yes, that actually massively caused me some issues. I don't have to hate them for it, but I don't have to pretend it didn't happen, either, and I *do* need to accept the reality that it's unlikely they're going to change.
Not that people can't change, but my parents see absolutely nothing wrong with the emotionally abusive/neglectful way they raised us or the infrequent physical abuse that my mom committed, so they have no interest in changing.
Check out the book https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=nodl_
You are not alone, especially in this community. I spent many years of my childhood, teens, and early 20’s stuck in and off and on relationship of suffering with my biggest trigger, my mother. I have not spoken to her in 5 years and I don’t plan to ever again. My last therapist and one of my friends also shared their stories with me about cutting off communication with their own mothers.
If people tell you to suck it up and be the bigger person to help your relationship with your mom they are wrong. If people tell you well family is the most important thing they are wrong. If anyone family or not is toxic, or abusive in any type of way they have no right to remain apart of your life just because. Put yourself first, give yourself the right to hold other people accountable, and I hope you find a path to healing.
It sounds like this was your way of dissociating. It takes time to replace that habit. For me, it was daydreaming nonstop (sometimes called maladaptive daydreaming). As I had more distance from the source problems, I was gradually able to set times of day that I would allow myself to daydream where it wouldn’t interfere with my daily functioning. Now, I daydream at night like telling myself a bedtime story, and they are interesting but not anxious.
Be kind to yourself. This takes time. If you are in a place where you can get therapy, consider it.
And because I can’t help myself in every comment, I’m going to, once again, recommend this book.
Seconded!! On my second rewatch and the more I watch, the more I feel sorry for her.
She really didn’t have consistent parenting at all. She’s really an asshole to Jacq but also she’s the product of her environment. Ashlee’s dad lived so far away and has 3 or 4 kids, maybe more, with his second wife, so I’m sure she felt forgotten. The Manzo kids/Caroline clearly treat her like the red headed stepchild.
Jacq is so fragile and emotionally immature - I had a mom like that, but did not have a stepdad like Chris to step in (Chris seems to feel bad for Ashlee and spoil her, which doesn’t help with the inconsistency). Having a mom with the emotional maturity of a child is really hard when you’re a teen girl and kind of surpass her in emotional age. You don’t really know/understand what’s going on or why she’s acting like that, and there’s the weird dynamic of she’s in charge of you and calls the shots but she’s also acting like a fucking child. It led to a lot of conflict between my mom and I in those years. I also get the vibe that Jacq saw Ashlee as her friend, not her kid, for a loooong time and that also leads to a weird relationship. No denying that Ashlee acts like a total shit, but I have a background in social work and we’re trained to look at WHY teens act like that.
I hope adult Ashlee gets a copy ofthis book for herself.
I’m on S2 when 18 year old Ashlee moves out with doofus blockbuster employee Derrick (were there still Blockbusters in 2010?!) and Jacq tries to hire her a life coach. No, Jacqueline, she doesn’t need a life coach. She needs parenting. Of course all she wants to do is party with her friends and dumbass boyfriend, she’s 18. It’s like Jacq dropped the ball on parenting the whole time and wonders why this 18 year old is fucking up and why some life coach can’t fix it.
Oh the sheer amount of fantasy conversations! They are part of our healing fantasies. If I say exactly the right words at the right time, the other person will feel the truth like a ton of bricks and the relationship will be transformed.
That's powerful as hell.
Mainly because it's relatable in a way that's actually kind of painful because I'm only now in my mid-thirties reaching that point. For context, my background was hyper-religious and quite emotionally repressive.
I'd never heard the term "reparenting" before either, but it brings to mind concepts from a book I've been reading lately.
(cc: /u/roastpoast, I spot you down there in another reply, check out the book in my link if you're interested. I've been there, friend.)
Hello again! I think I might have come across something that will help you that doesn't require therapy!
I met a person that was struggling with social anxiety and emotional neglect, among other things, and in the exploration of those issues we came across a book on the negative impact of emotionally immature parents. In reading it so far, we both found it to hit incredibly close to home, to say the least.
The book is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. Smile Amazon link: https://smile.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Emotional neglect is a big component in the book, though not the only one, as the book covers multiple impacts from emotionally immature parents.
If you're interested in it, and aren't in a position to buy it, I can send you a PDF copy if you'd like.
Kudos to you! You held your ground mama bear with clarity and dignity. Bless the woman who has her own!
If your husband doesn’t want to do therapy, I recommend getting the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. I’m a third way through and find it very helpful. The audio version is decent.
That's plain abuse. Blaming your children for your own adult choices and decisions in life. She could've worked too. She chose not to, then blames you for her choice. Not very mature. Have you read books like these? https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I’m not going to judge you, but your fiancé should read audibly children of emotionally immature parents.
My parents knew how to emotionally manipulate me and often brought up my trauma just to make fun of it. She should learn about this stuff. Instead of allowing her dad to control her
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://smile.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_S688TCNJRJY083WXAT3X
/u/rancidmorty
The #1 go-to book for adults recovering from manipulative/narcissistic parents is "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
There's also /r/RaisedByNarcissists as a support group
I'm so sorry I forgot to include the link
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_EV8H4RGE6ENNVWBVB4SH
Do me a huge favor? Yourself a huge favor? Don't let them share your happiness because they'll do anything possible to crush it. Do all of your planning in secret. Look for an apartment, get all of your affairs in order and then on the day you move out or after you've moved out, that's when you tell them.
Do not give them your address. Do not tell them what street you live on. Do not tell them where you're employed. As far as they're concerned, you drop of the face of the earth. Then begin to heal and then, when you're ready, if you are ever ready, you can allow them into your life on your terms.
You owe this to yourself.
This book really helped me a lot.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_GMQMXSNCPAQQ7PADT1BX
Also, research the term "gray rocking the narcissist in your life" - it's the single most useful tool I have ever had in my toolbox to deal with my mother.
It gets so much better, I promise.
"No I don’t give to “earn” anything. I was def neglected by my parents but the reason I prefer to give is that anytime my mom did anything for me it was thrown in my face later on. I got used to feeling like allowing people to do things for me means they’ll act like I owe them and will remind me of it.
So now I do my best to never make anyone else feel that way. If I do something for you I don’t remind you of it nor do I expect anything in return. I do it because I genuinely want to help or see you happy."
This is like the platonic form of the "giver" origin story.
this will help you understand how it hurts you to do this: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=sr\_1\_1?crid=JFIVJI0ON4Z0&keywords=adult+children+of+emotionally+immature+parents&qid=1648776333&sprefix=adult+children+of+%2Caps%2C371&sr=8-1
I highly recommend this book. I’m not being hyperbolic when I say reading it was a life saving experience. The same author also went on to write two more books expanding on the first one, both of which are equally excellent.
Your mom seems pretty vested in keeping you infantalized and dependent upon her. Maybe check out this book. She might have some enmeshment problems — a lot of parents have a hard time accepting their children as autonomous beings and not an extension of themselves.
I’m so so sorry you went through that. That was absolutely not your fault at all!
To prove it, this book called “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal” is amazingly validating. It teaches you what goes on in the mind of parents like that and how that trauma affects you. It also teaches you how to heal yourself and uses real abuse examples to prove you are not alone.
Find a childhood trauma therapist. [Patrick Teahan Therapy offers affordable workbooks, YouTube videos, and Instagram posts](patrickteahantherapy.com) to help you understand yourself and heal—and he, too, dealt with a very abusive and neglectful parent. It’s a good starting point before going into your own therapy sessions.
I recently finished reading this one and would recommend. It's not specifically about emotional absence but that fell into the larger category of emotional immaturity in parents. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_H9N1YDB2FT1MRVA6B9RE
I've struggled with the misuse of the term. I thought that it was only gaslighting if it was intentional.
I'm working on healing parental stuff right now and so I'm thinking a lot about how my parents behaved. They were not intentionally trying to confuse me or hurt me. They were intentionally trying to quiet their own anxiety and fear. What they did was NOT okay on any level but they were not gaslighting most of the time.
On a related note, I tried for a while to learn about narcissism and borderline to see if my parents fit that. But I felt like I was getting tied up in knots and I felt guilty pinning these labels on them. What worked for me was to read about emotional immaturity. Then I could really sink into the behaviors and the impact on my young mind. My therapist is now tossing out diagnoses for my parents and so I may explore that.
Realizing that (because of your childhood) there will always be a gap between the event (in this case your father's request to meet his new girlfriend) and understanding how you actually feel can be really empowering.
You can always say to someone, "I'll need to get back to you on that" and give yourself a couple of days to come to an understanding of your emotions. Otherwise, your first inclination will always be to try to please the other person by giving them the answer they want.
You might want to pick up this book at some point: https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=sr\_1\_1?
I'm so sorry you're going through this. No, you're not an asshole for supporting your parents' divorce. Unfortunately parents don't always know what they're doing and can cause a lot of damage to their kids unintentionally. It's ok for you to be angry about this. But please find a healthy way to communicate your anger, and talk to someone (a counselor or therapist) about how you're feeling.
There's a really great book, I don't know if you might be a little young for it but maybe it would help, called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson. It helps sort out your parents' actions and how they've affected you, and how to heal from that.
We can learn a lot from our parents. Even what not to do. I know it's hard while you're going through it though. Hang in there 💛
I am sorry you have to deal with this. I strongly relate to your feelings of anxiety and sadness, when your upbringing seemed to have everything you would need (education, food, shelter, family) I recommend this book, as it has helped me immensely:
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I think you would benefit from reading this book: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents. It helped me.
Im reading a book about this kind of parental behavior right now
It’s helped me process a lot of my own experiences with fucked up parenting. Not all, but some.
Figured I’d share it after seeing the OP and some of the comments here.
It has been so worth it for me!! This book also really opened up my eyes to see the patterns of behaviour my mum (and me and my siblings as a result) were entrenched in, and why I struggled so much with guilt and feeling responsible for her and looking after her at the expense of myseld: https://www.amazon.com.au/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703 - I cannot recommend it enough. So validating! And I love that the information given is not just "go no contact", as for me that wasn't the outcome I wanted, but I did want a way to have a relationship of some kind with my mum while still protecting myself and my family.
I can relate to appearing to cope very well. I just started reading this book and thought it might resonate with you, too. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_CE5P70PNWZA7MPBRHWBT. <3
Thanks for the kind words. I started reading this earlier tonight and I'm hoping it clears a few things up.
I think that's the hardest part when you know something is wrong, but you don't 'know'. It's challenging to get through, but it will be so worth it. Adult of Immature parents also might be a good read for you as well, and compared to the two I reccomended above it might be a lighter one to make it through.
Scribd app has so much self help in the form of audio books, and I love that because my ADHD makes it hard to focus on reading. I cannot reccomend that app enough, but your local library might have some of these books for free and free is the best.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
She IS making it up. She read it somewhere and ascribed it to her therapist so it might have some weight with you.
Children are not meant to protect their parents; parents are meant to protect their children.
Have you read this book: https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Hey OP, I totally get what you are describing. Sometimes the hardest thing about the type of abuse we went through is the fact that it is easy to downplay it and act like there is no problem. I was brought up in a middle class family, not rich but not poor. Was lucky I never had to go hungry. Parents didn't get a divorce.
However, the thing is they did not provide the emotional support that we needed as children.
One book I might recommend for your healing is:
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
It is easy to hear about physical or sexual abuse and point a finger to how wrong it is. Not many people would stick up for a parent that is physically are sexually abusive to their children.
But how many people know about the children who constantly had their values mocked and made fun of by their parents? I certainly can. It was always a 'funny little joke' of which I was always the target that I remember going on my entire childhood.
That sort of thing is just as destructive as other types of abuse.
The first step is getting away from the abusive people. The second step is healing. I am still in the process, and there is a lot to do. Sure, I'm not thrilled that I have to re-learn all this stuff, and especially that I was never treated properly.
However, at this point in life, the only thing that is going to make my life better is healing this and going through the tough work.
I believe that those of us in /rbn started way, way, way behind the starting point in life as a result of the environment we were raised in.
All the best.
While we are having a book club moment, may I strongly, strongly recommend Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents?
It was ground breaking for me, and really helped me process a lot of my emotions and actually helped me let go of the shame regarding my parents that controlled my inner self.
I’m really sorry to hear that. There just no getting through to some people is there?
I have found this book incredibly helpful in dealing with my own self absorbed mother. I hope it might be some help to you too
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=nodl_
First thing to is become completely financially independent of them.
Second thing is to realise you will be looking after them in their old age & catering to their whims. No.
https://www.amazon.com.au/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
> Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
This isn't strictly related to grief or partner loss, but if no one has suggested this book to you it sounds like you might get a lot out of it: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I have definitely struggled with feeling expected to handle everyone else's feelings before my own and it is absolutely exhausting, even more so when the repression means people start remarking on how well you're doing.
I highly recommend Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents as well!
This. Wen-wu I absolutely sociopathic and with narcissistic personality disorder.
Something else that is interesting but not diagnosis or condition is the idea of "emotionally immature parents." If it applies, this book can be very emotional:
I know I'm just a stranger on the Internet but thank you for everything that you do. We regulate our emotions better when we have a partner who supports us. You may have saved his life. I know my husband saved mine.
I wouldn't be here if it weren't for my husband. He is the first person to truly show me what unconditional love is. For the very first time, I felt what family truly is. I didn't need to become anyone else or to fulfill some kind of expectation or role to be seen and heard. It made me so happy to finally experience it — but also agonised when I realised other people feel that from their parents from the moment they knew them. The realisation that I grew up lonely, parenting myself as a child which led to my disorder was life-changing, but also disturbing.
Here is the book that helped me piece together why my attachment style was preoccupied and fearful (this is the usual for pwBPD): Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_T30VVCGTBCNXZCECJJSF
NTA - I realise that you believe your mother is in a difficult situation, but this is not fair to you. Google parentification and get out of this living situation ASAP the minute you graduate high school. I promise you that once you leave things will get better. I also notice that in your list of activities you don’t mention anything about friends or a social life. I am not saying this to shame you but I do wonder how much you taking on your mother’s responsibilities is causing you to neglect your own life.
I have found that this book gave me a significant amount of clarity around my childhood and I hope might assist you: https://www.amazon.com.au/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703. I wish that I had understood a lot earlier that my first responsibility was to myself. A question you might want to ask yourself - is your mother willing to sacrifice her social life and personal development for you to the same extent that you are willing to sacrifice yours for her? You said that she plays the Sims a lot of nights. Surely she could at least assist with the household chores.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this, it sounds like it really sucks. I would highly highly recommend talking this out with a therapist and also starting to put some boundaries in place with your mom. Saying things like "Mom, I don't want to talk about this, let's talk about *insert new topic here". And I'd call her, gently, when she's cruel about your siblings or about your choices. The great thing about having some physical distance? You can just...hang up the phone. You can just say, I don't want to have this conversation, so I'm going to hang up now and...hang up. It's really not fair for a parent to be emotionally dumping on their child, just remember that you don't have to listen or allow it.
​
You might also find this book really helpfu: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
I absolutely understand! I've struggled with this myself and my therapist has been helpful teasing the mess out into something I can manage. For a long time I used anger to protect me from being drawn back into contact. But anger is so harmful to carry around for long.
As I worked on my anger the compassion came back and it was very hard to maintain no contact even though I knew it's what's best for me. I'm now able to understand my mum's story, why she's the way she is, not blame her, but still not take responsibility for her or her part in our non-relationship. She'll never take responsibility for herself but that doesn't change the consequences she has for how she's treated me. I have empathy for her distantly enough that I still protect myself from further abuse.
This is a link for the book:
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
NTA your mom is abusive af. She sounds like a carbon copy of my mom. I went no contact 6 months ago and my life is so much happier and healthier!!
I recommend these books:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_uzIaGb2MGV021
You're Not Crazy - It's Your Mother https://www.amazon.com/dp/0232529299/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_PzIaGbX33D4GW
NTA oh dear internet stranger. Please give yourself the gift of a few new books. Your mom is a narcissist.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_fAFaGb9VN73B5
You're Not Crazy - It's Your Mother: Understanding and Healing for Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers https://www.amazon.com/dp/1506462154/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_BCFaGbMK06B18
Omg. That’s hilarious. Ahh it would be so great if you could counter with another prominently displayed book with an accusatory title.
Something like this maybe? https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Ugh that’s a hard one & I’m sorry this is going on. I don’t know your exact experience so I’ll send on what helped me through this situation. Can’t say I had much success to actually help the enabling parent. But I was able to carve out space for myself in this rock in a hard place situation.
One resource that helped me in this situation to get better understanding was the book - Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It helped me see how/why these sorts of dynamic happen & how the child relationship fit in. Both parents in these dynamics are there for their own reasons. Those reasons might not be what information is given out to the child.
Biggest thing I’ll say from my experience is that the enabling parent also needs to choose to be helped. My enabling parent unfortunately used the abuse to deeply hurt/manipulate me as well which I didn’t recognize for a while. Example - we were more enmeshed through a sort of trauma bond. Therefore I was parentified to be the rescuer in the relationship. Recognizing that I only had so much ability and my enabling parent had to act on it helped my mental state a lot. I still was deserving of love no matter if I fixed the situation or not.
Another way that helped was to look into elder protective services in my area. At some point for me it was pretty bad so I used some resources through that service. Mainly to ensure my enabler parent was being fed / cared for without having to compromise on my safety. So if that’s an issue for you, you’re not alone in this. My family was a farm family so the pride and stubbornness meant asking for help was too much. But if meals & extra hands just appeared, well that’s ok. (Just couldn’t know their child set it up). Meal delivery really helped my piece of mind since it meant someone was checking in routinely.
Sorry I don’t have much help to offer. But I hope you can find enough support out here to get a workable plan.
Here’s that book I mentioned. Book isn’t too hard to taken in & gives a lot of examples to better understand our dynamics in hard relationships. Helped me a lot to see how I was pressured to fit a role vs allowed to be valued as just me. And how that role effected my self compassion.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_R521AR2FYT4V4VKSBE2S
For the children of of 80s/90s who need the therapy... https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Sounds like you’ve got emotionally immature family. This book might be of help: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
NTA oh honey. Your parents are shitty. Buy this book.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_Bx2cGbWZZ3WG6
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. Your parents may not be as bad as the ones in the book, but the boundaries work just as well.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I’ll just leave this here...
Childhood emotional neglect and attachment trauma can be present despite material wealth. These experiences can be damaging to children and may cause mental health problems that endure into adulthood and until they are dealt with. If either of these ring a bell with you, then you might want to look them up.
The following books may also be helpful
(In particular, page 45 of the latter explains how emotional neglect may affect a developing child. Please be aware that the video it links to may be triggering if you have experienced these issues in your life)
No one here can say whether these things happened to you or not but talking about your feelings and their origins with a good therapist might be a good start to working out why you feel this way and how you can start feeling better.
As someone else said, there are people with judgemental attitudes out there, but we have the choice to approach ourselves with kindness and compassion throughout our efforts to recover. Wishing you all the best in your recovery.
Currently reading and getting wrecked by - Adult Children of Emotionally... https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
These are hard questions to answer because none of them can really be answered without knowing the full context, the answers to each are really complex, and even then they can only genuinely be answered by a professional. Hopefully someone else can answer them better but I will try.
Also I don't have it anymore but I googled something about pedophile traits and types and found a pdf from a police department with lots of the kinds of answers you might be interested in. I didn't get very far because it was way too upsetting to read but if you feel up to it you could look for it or something like it.
We are in very similar situations to one another. I have the same gut feeling about being molested by my dad with nothing concrete. Just a million red flags that leave little to the imagination. There were lots of suspicious behaviors and odd feelings I had, that fit into childhood sexual assault too perfectly to ignore.
Keep in mind that you may not find something concrete. I obsessed over it myself and picked apart every little thing with objective surgical precision for years and none of it was concrete without my memories of the actual event. I still have everything except the concrete proof.
>1.) What are general tactics used by abusers to keep memories supressed? I'm not even talking gaslighting, I'm talking, you really don't remember and they want to keep it that way.
Gaslighting is a general tactic and it works along with other tactics to keep you off balance mentally/dependent on the family or abuser for what you think. Abusers may not be planning things out deliberately. Alot about the way a person feels about what their doing dictates how they do it. If the person feels entitled to hurt a child they will behave differently than someone who knows they are a disgusting monster and hates themselves for it. There have been children who were told fantastical stories about bombs implanted in them by aliens that will detonate if they tell, so if the child ever told no one would believe them including themselves. Other kids were told thier family would be ruined or something. I doubt there is a way to forcefully and deliberately suppress a trauma.
>2.) Do these tactics differ between men and women? I'm sure they do but how that manifests has to do with the individual and where they came from. I will say it was very useful to me to read this ----> https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_NZNV5R7797HXX5J7NQNM It helped me to understand my parents and why they treated me how I did and why I felt the way I felt as a kid.
>3.) What are quotes that are red flags? I.e., how a physical abuser wouls say "If I actually wanted to hurt you, you'd be dead". Are there any equivalent things that are just like, a big "fuck no"?
It depends on the person and the context.
>4.) Is there a difference between behavior of somebody who is genuinely remorseful to some degree (as much as you can be if you're hiding it, anyway), and somebody who'd straight up do it again if they could do it over?
I think my mother who was the enabler has remorse. I remember her explaining how it was my cousins fault that my uncle molested her. When she saw the look on my face she backpedaled into saying her niece "accidentally" seduced my uncle because she must have seen something provocative on tv. I think it was easier for her to believe a child was misunderstood than it was to accept that her husband molested his own daughter in her home while she slept. She chose a comforting delusion and pushes away anyone who threatens it with reality. My father hides behind my mother and she deals with his mess for him.
I really recommend this book https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061284335/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_VN3A2ZCMPPFYTN3NFXXE It says it's for women but that's stupid, it's just information, I think it will answer some of your questions and give you perspective on other aspects of figuring things out.
Hope this was at least a little helpful ♡ also I would recommend doing research on the YouTube about confronting abusers so you have some idea of what to expect if you do.
>The whole problem is so simple and the solutions so seemingly easy, but I literally just cannot.
I have felt this way to a greater or lesser degree for most of my life, particularly for things related to self-care and personal motivation. Trying to willpower myself through doing those things, even if temporarily successful, usually didn't last and increased the feelings of self-loathing and ineptness/impotency. Low-level depression (made worse by some hormones) was the norm for me. I'd made strides in specific cases (learning to exercise was one), but several areas continue to be difficult for me.
BUT--I read a book that changed things for me hugely, just a few months ago. I read it because I've been trying to understand for years how to connect with my kids to have the happy, close, trusting, peaceful relationships as a family that are my dream. The obstacles I kept coming up against, over and over, were inside of me, and I needed to understand how to get past myself so we could all be happy!
I'd looked at books meant for adult kids of alcoholics, since some of the advice paralleled with areas I struggled in (like having good boundaries, making good friendships, even adulting in general), but it...just wasn't quite right, 'cause growing up, we didn't tiptoe around secrets or deny serious dysfunction or go without basic physical care. Still, there was something missing, and the missing "whatever" felt really, really tied to this inability to DO. To self-motivate. To take care of myself. To have ANYTHING to draw on inside me to give my kids an attentive, centered person to relate to.
Then I came across this book: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson. It basically outlines how your parents can provide a home with physical care, security, and affection, and still leave you feeling like you are lost and empty inside, even as an adult.
I have the book around here somewhere but I can't find it, so I hope you'll forgive me quoting some things from the amazon preview that are wordy but close to what I want to convey:
>"Growing up in a family with emotionally immature parents is a lonely experience. These parents may look and act perfectly normal, caring for their child’s physical health and providing meals and safety. However, if they don’t make a solid emotional connection with their child, the child will have a gaping hole where true security might have been. The loneliness of feeling unseen by others is as fundamental a pain as physical injury, but it doesn’t show on the outside…When the children of emotionally immature parents grow up, the core emptiness remains…
>"Emotional loneliness is so distressing that a child who experiences it will do whatever is necessary to make some kind of connection with the parent. These children may learn to put other people’s needs first as the price of admission to a relationship. Instead of expecting others to provide support or show interest in them, they may take on the role of helping others, convincing everyone that they have few emotional needs of their own. Unfortunately, this tends to create even more loneliness, since covering up your deepest needs prevents genuine connection with others. [My note: So feeling like your own caretaking is undeserved, or putting yourself last on a visceral level is a part of this. Also, my dad was a controlling parent, and my motivation problems have root in the passive aggressive way I tried to resist being controlled in nearly every area of life, since outward defiance was so, so emotionally risky.] ...
>"Parents who are emotionally immature are so self-preoccupied that they don’t notice their children’s inner experiences. In addition, they discount feelings, and they fear emotional intimacy. They’re uncomfortable with their own emotional needs and therefore have no idea how to offer support at an emotional level. Such parents may even become nervous and angry if their children get upset, punishing them instead of comforting them. These reactions shut down children’s instinctive urge to reach out, closing the door to emotional contact…."
Anyway, I may be all wet, so I'm sorry if none of this feels like it applies to you! I'm kinda like the proverbial man with a hammer, who thinks everything is now a nail: this new paradigm has changed my self-understanding so completely, and it's just not part of the way most people talk about family and ourselves in general, that if anyone even kinda looks like it might apply to them, I want them to know about it! It's helped me see that I'm not defective as a person--I have deficits in emotional skills I should have been taught and wasn't. Deficits in supportive relationships I should have had, but don't.
I hope this helps in some way. If nothing else, just know you're not crazy, you're not worthless, and you're not alone. Edit: formatting/clarity
Read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=nodl_
Try to stay safe and take care of you.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I'm just gonna leave this right here.
But seriously, this book has really helped me and it sounds like you may benefit too.
Also, have you heard of borderline personality?
I know how you feel. You want that connection with your mother but it's not going to happen. She is not going to put your needs ahead her own. I found this book incredibly helpful
https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I sincerely hope that you are able to get that new apartment and untangle yourself from your parents emotional issues.
Remember YOU are the strong one -(incredibly based on the post). YOU have the POWER. You are NEVER responsible for the happiness of others, - not even your mother. EVER
NEVER FORGET THIS.
Lots of childhood abuse victims suffer from a lot of these conditions and more. I have a friend who developed a stutter as a child from his nparents abuse and criticism; he still has it to this day (he's 35). His stutter has improved over the years as he's worked with speech therapist and mental health professionals, but he'll always have some form of it.
Really, the problem isn't the speaking or the anxiety: it's you carry the scars (emotionally, physically, and mentally) from the years of destructive, abusive behavior. The only way to fix that is by "working through it" as they say. Therapy helps, find a good therapist familiar with your situation and what you encountered. Have specific goals to work on in therapy and work through the crap you've been through.
Also, self help goes a long way. I highly recommend the book <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/"Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents</a>. Lindsay Gibson has a workbook out for that book plus another book which deals with recovering.
<a href="https://www.toastmasters.org/">Toastmasters</a> is a wonderful group for public speaking, there are chapters everywhere (and online). Try attending one of their meetings.
Get involved with a group of people with a similar interest/hobby as you have. Whether it's model railroading, pokemon, stamp collecting, photography---whatever your interest is, seek out a local group/club of fellow hobbyists.
Be kind to yourself. Realize that abuse has happened -- you are NOT those awful things your nparent said you were. You are not a failure, you were, instead, failed by your parent.
NTA Please do yourself the favor of researching the terms “parentification”, “enmeshment”, “narcissism” and check this out too:
This book should help you too!
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_L1g.FbZ2BW5X3
It is. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_JsQ2Fb6MBCQBJ
I guess "covert incest" is an interesting concept (albeit one with a squicky name). Not sure that's a thing that was going on in my childhood.
She suppressed her own emotions just like she suppressed mine. Displays of any emotion, happy or sad, were just verboten, since she had no clue what to do with emotions at all. If you were upset, you went and did it by yourself since nobody wants to see that. If you were happy, you did it silently because you don't want to bother other people with your noise or exuberance... and this philosophy applied to herself as well as me. We were the only two people around. No dad, no siblings, no extended family within "weekend" radius.
In addition to lots of Internet stuff and probably a couple books I've forgotten about already, I've read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and Running on Empty No More, as well as Bouncing Back, Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving and The Body Keeps the Score. Those last two (the first two I actually read) were probably the most validating and helpful for me so far.
My sample size is small, but I've noticed that the tone of the mother-daughter-focused stuff tends to be less focused on how to get better, and more wallowey and blamey. Kelly McDaniel's website seems to be more hopeful, though. So I pre-ordered her book--thanks for the suggestion!
I'm also on my third session of IASIS neurofeedback. Not much to report there yet.
I feel like at some point, I'm probably gonna need to talk to an actual human therapist about it though.
https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
This book explains how our immature parents used us for their emotional validation. Highly recommended.
It's like we have the same dad.
It is unfair that we have to be the adult with our parents. But they never grew up. The best way to heal is to have distance, and likely separation.
I'm so sorry you have to endure this. But you can. You will get through this and one day your life will be better than you could have ever imagined. I am proof of that.
--------
Check out this book, it has helped a lot of people: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&hvadid=77996657378121&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=children+of+emotionally+immature+parents&qid=1609893953&sr=8-1&tag=mh0b-20
Thanks for your detailed response. Thanks for also recommending a few books. I will check them out! would Emotional Neglect be similar to Emotional intelligence similar to what is explained in this book https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703?
I am sorry you have to deal with this.
If you can move out definitely take that option. As them being more controlling- you left which made them feel like they were losing control. Also if you can try to get a therapist. Or Talk to someone you trust. For me acknowledging it has been helpful to deal with it.
Just remember this is about them and their issues. Unfortunately they are taking it out on you.
Read up on how to handle narcissistics
Looks you like you needed to take some things of the your chest, its perfectly ok and it sounds logical duo to how toxic your family is described. I guess you can't do much but to physically distant yourself from your family and let time heal your soul.At young age I was mostly cared by my mother and at age 12 I moved in to my dad's house, thinking back I see how huge mistake it was for he is narcissistic and abusive, kinda sounds similar to your mother. like how you described that she always brush things off, this is exactly what my dad and sister does, I think this happens because they aren't mature enough to deal with emotional pain, on some levels at-least. I even read a book about it, called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents!, very interesting book, I highly recommended because it helps to understand their behavior with logic.
An example for inability to deal with emotional pain would be lack of empathy for crying. in the book its described how immature (often narcissistic) parents can't respond well to their crying children, rather if its at young age or adulthood. I for a fact remember countless times how my dad made me cry and just told me to "suck it up" or something of sorts. this of-course is just immature behavior for a good parent would not make their child cry in the first place.
another thing I found fascinating from the book is this pattern that often emotional-immature adults had awful parents, its pretty obvious when you think about it but a very important note. this causes them to compare their own childhood to how they make your's, which relatively is supposed to be better. In example from what I understand my father was physically abused quite a lot, in turn he made my childhood full of emotional abuse, which probably has the same mental negatives.
In short those people didn't had good childhood themselves, as your mother rightfully said to you, but I do find my father (and probably your mother) wrong, because they let themselves get trapped in the same abuse cycle. they haven't made any real effort to change and give their kids healthy childhood. it is possible of-course, to change yourself and take healthy objective approach in your parenthood, but it takes effort which they didn't care for.
also, I would shame your uncle for what he did to you, don't be afraid, make a scene out of it on public in some place (family dinner maybe) or, if you feel its justified, simply file sexual harassment complaint on him, for from what you described "slapping my butt" sounds like sexual harassment to me. make him understand to not mess with you again.
​
A user on this sub changed my life by sharing this book with me recently (I checked it out at the library and I'm still in the middle of it):
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I realize you're talking about your wife, however what you're describing is very relevant to what I'm reading. Just the fact that you've put up with this for 5 years, it means that she discounts your feelings which might lead to you doubting yourself and feeling like what you think and feel isn't as important as what she thinks and feels.
Is it possible that you're a child of self-involved emotionally immature parents? I bet she is. It seems very common in the mormon church. I don't want to make assumptions but this pattern and your tolerance of it can be a sign you were brought up to not regard yourself as a valid thinking and feeling human being.
She's also unable to accept objective realities (the advice of a third party therapist) and can only interpret life through subjectivity. She's kind of a textbook case from your description.
I'm sorry but you need to save yourself. I hope there aren't small children involved. :(
Exactly. There’s a great book that is eye opening, if you’re interested: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I recommend: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. Really Validates the experience of having shitty parents. I felt like I was reading my own childhood in this book. https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I also recommend: When Food is Comfort. The methods that are taught in this book can be applied to any issue you have not just over eating. This book details how to validate your own emotions and helps with self regulation and fulfilling your own needs. I’m about half way through this and it has helped me alot!
It doesn't sound like your issue with him is ADHD-related. It sounds like he gets overwhelmed with negative feelings and doesn't know what to do with them, or how to process them in a healthy way. He's dealing with them using some very toxic coping mechanisms, probably mirrored from how his own parents dealt with him when they were stressed.
I honestly think couples therapy would be a good option for you two. If you can't do that, there's a lot of online reading and books you can find on the topic of resolving couples' issues.
Examples:
John Gottman's Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are four communication habits identified as strong predictors of break-up or divorce: criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. It sounds like your husband does at least three of these. You may do it too -- most people do to some extent. These are habits that need to be recognized, acknowledged, and unlearned with concerted effort.
Non-violent Communication is a communication style you can utilize (even by yourself) to be able to talk to him without triggering defensiveness. It's basically a way of approaching conversations without judgment while also getting to the root of what's bothering the other person and allowing them to express their frustrations. The examples in the book I linked are a little stiff, but you can get the gist of it and use more casual language as you see fit. It can be a little jarring to the other person if they're not used to this, but I think it's okay to acknowledge that you're trying to understand them and using this technique to do so. It may be good to start with this so you can at least begin to get him to let down his walls.
I also find the concept of Love Languages to be very useful.
Parents sabotaging children who are outpacing them isn't entirely uncommon. You've mentioned that your father is working to be a better father to you. In light of that, do you think he might be amenable to getting therapy/counseling (either by himself or with you) to find the tools to do so?
And it sounds like this book might be right up your alley.
I hate to say it, but he'll probably need this book when he's older.
NTA. This is some classic toxic stuff though, that your mom does. Therapy is the thing that will help you processes these things. Try grey rock method for now until you build different systems.
This is a really phenomenal book and the author wrote two more books afterward on the subject.
If therapy isn’t an option right now, this book is a great jumping off point for doing the healing work at home.
I have a mom like yours. A younger brother she treats differently too. I’ve been NC with her for three years and I’m truly the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. It’s remarkable the person I’m capable of being when she isn’t in my life. This is the case for a lot of adult children or emotionally abusive parents (because that’s what she is — abusive). Best of luck to you!
You might see your dad in this:
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
So parents who fight in front of their children but don’t model how to make peace after an argument are setting their children up for a lifetime of hurt and confusion. This is some classically toxic shit. (My parents were the king and queen of this behavior)
I’m willing to wager that you had a rough childhood. Like even if you were materially taken care of, your emotional needs were likely not met the way you needed them to be — because your parents were literally incapable.
I think you should do yourself the favor and buy this book. Your mind will be totally blown. The author went on to write two more books.
Another good one is this
Read this book as soon as you can.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
This is true for many and they won't listen to the truth and get mad when they're wrong about stuff and dig in deeper. It's very predictable immature behavior. https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
You can probably enumerate the number of people who think about you in a non-trivial way when you're not in their presence on your fingers. To everyone else you might as well not even exist. Most people are not thinking about you even when you're in their presence because they're so worried about what people think of them!
Look stupid. Make mistakes. Unapologetically stick to your values (e.g. I was always made fun of amongst my group of young adult-aged friends for being frugal. Now that I'm older and have done well wrt financial decisions, I can really see how not giving in to peer pressure has made life so much easier).
A few more opinionated ones:
- You will probably feel better eating animal products. I tried being vegetarian for almost a year and I was having dreams about steak. I basically stopped being borderline sick all the time once I returned to normal. The ratio of ex-vegans to vegans I know is huge!
- You probably can get away with less car than you think. You almost certainly don't need a truck. It's just supposed to be safe, reliable, reasonably comfortable, and not cost a bazillion $$$ to fix. Driving an Audi is cool, but my Subaru has never once died on me when I had to start it on a sub-zero morning. I make enough now to afford a fancy BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Volvo, but I find the stress of dealing with the myriad problems those cars seem to have unappealing. Think about it before you financially commit yourself to some financial albatross.
- No productivity technique is going to fix any underlying emotional problem. You can't "Tim Ferriss" your way out of most of these things, as the real behavior change is quite easy (e.g. go to the gym, vs. solve a Millenium problem).
- You likely have parts of your life that are persistent "black holes", where you engage in some behavior (or avoidance of some behavior) and you struggle for a long time to understand why. This is mostly because there are things you learned at a very subconscious level in childhood that kept you emotionally safe, but that cause harm to you as an adult. For example, maybe you find yourself playing video games way too much, don't like it, but feel compelled to do it. The lack of understanding one has around these areas is often alexithymia, when you don't actually know what you're feeling (e.g. helplessness), only the reaction to it (e.g. anger). I cannot recommend this book enough. It helped me enormously.
Hi! I have not read this myself yet, but was pointed here: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I have also found the author on some podcasts which have been helpful to hear!
You're being very kind and we don't know OP, but sometimes it's more severe though and the parents really do need therapy.
Yeah, I do think it's possible. I feel like I'm doing it with my kid. There are a lot of resources.
This is my favorite, I can't recommend it highly enough: https://www.gottman.com/product/emotion-coaching-the-heart-of-parenting-online/
I can add another recommendation for the Whole Brain Child.
Also Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents to help figure out your own stuff: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
And how are you with yourself? You're the template for your kid, if you aren't happy with who you are, then that's the behavior your kid will mimic as s/he learns how to be a people. If you have time and money, I recommend therapy, if you aren't already doing it. Emotionally Focused Therapy has done/is doing great things for me.
From you introducing your dad in this story, I get the feeling that you your sister (and maybe you too) might have unprocessed trauma that resulted from immature parenting. Obviously, I'm armchair psychoanalyzing and can't be sure, but your sister sounds like she really needs someone to talk to because she's got all these intense emotions, but doesn't know how to constructively deal with them. Your dad definitely was not a good role model in this regard. Your sister has grown up to be an immature adult as well.
I'm a big believer in using non-violent communication to de-escalate situations and getting people to understand your POV by empathizing with them first. Maybe that's something you could try? Like instead of bottling things up and just agreeing with her, actually get to the root of why she's feeling upset and understand her. The examples in the Non-Violent Communication book are a bit stuff, but they get the idea across. I'm hoping if you change your approach, maybe you can break the cycle of abuse and actually have a functional relationship with your sister, rather than feel the need to move out or be cruel back to her.
While you're at it, you should let her know that how she treats you really hurts your feelings, and makes you feel bad. "I'm your brother. I'm your family. I've never done anything to deserve this. Why do you think it's okay to treat me like garbage?"
Sometimes people get stuck in toxic habits, and don't even stop to think about what they're doing or how it affects people. They just feel pain/rejection/hurt and want to stop feeling bad any way they can.
I'm not saying my advice will for sure work or anything, but I'm saying it couldn't hurt to try. Additionally, having a serious conversation with your sister about the ways your parents failed you both could open up a lot of opportunities for growth/change in your relationship with her.
This book helped me lots with my family in general after leaving.
My mom only knows how to be negative. She pretty much never has anything nice to say about anyone. She imagines the worst case scenario at all times and even when the thing comes and goes and the worst didn't happen, she still obsesses over what could have happened. two of her favorite refrains to repeat are that "happy people are stupid, that's why they're happy" and "not everyone is Leave It to Beaver."
The reality is that my mom's negativity is not just "pessimism." It's mental illness. Untreated, undiagnosed, but definitely mental illness, definitely affecting all of her relationships and her physical health and the overall quality of her life.
I've given up on trying to help her or change her. A child cannot be their parent's therapist. For one thing, it'll never work, and for another, it is so deeply unfair to the child to think they have to fix or manage their parent's mental health.
My suggestion is to limit your conversations with her. Keep things general. Don't tell her the specifics and then she can't have a negative opinion on them. Instead, ask her open-ended and positive questions, like, "So what fun thing are you doing this weekend?" and "Is there anything coming up that you're looking forward to?" or "What was the last thing you really enjoyed?" These sorts of questions will put her back on her heels a bit, forcing her to try to think of something good or positive. And if she's got nothing (my mom's got nothing), then follow it up with "Well you should go out and do something you enjoy." And then that's your cue to disengage and go do something you enjoy, like not talking to a negative energy vortex.
I know this isn't necessarily the advice you were looking for, but it really is the only advice I can give as someone that lives it like you do: pull away. You can't fix her, so figure out how to stop caring that she's broken. And maybe consider reading Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It really resonated with me.
Your mother is not a child and you are not her parent. It is selfish and unreasonable for her to willfully be a burden on you in your adulthood.
There's nothing wrong with her asking for help, but she cannot hold you completely responsible for granting her wishes.
If you're into reading and psychology, I highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
My own parents are good people, but they had horribly abusive parents that stunted their maturity somewhere in their teens. Sometimes their expectations can be a bit warped.
This book helped a lot. I still get to have a loving (and often fun) adult relationship with them without all the pain and resentment.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Reading this right now. I'm going through a similar situation. It's really helping me with my parents
NTA. Your mom is emotionally abusive. I really, really recommend you read this book
I’m a daughter of a difficult mother like yours. I could have written this post myself, because those were the kinds of conversations we would have regularly. I have CPTSD from my relationship with my mom (with whom I no longer speak, we are no contact). I found this other book to be wildly helpful. Best of luck to you!
I have been experiencing the exact same thing. I'm reading this book which lens so much insight. https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Hi! Please read this comment on guilt. I would also recommend this book : Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.
Please read https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
this details the fairly common tactics of narc parents and how to overcome them. Good boundaries are needed for relationships. Narcs usually ignore them.
I recently started reading this book and it's been very helpful!
Actually sorry I think it's this one, either way there is literature out there to help you better understand your experience.
https://www.amazon.com.au/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
because I know you looked like I just did
>How do I forgive my parents for emotionally neglecting me as a child?
At the risk of sounding snarky, why on earth would you forgive people who have never even admitted they did anything wrong, let alone apologized? I have very strong feelings about forgiveness and I think forgiving people who've done nothing to earn it is bullshit.
>I am beginning to hate my parents. I just don’t want to be around them any more.
That's 100% fair. You have no obligation to spend time with people who you don't like. You didn't ask to be born, you owe them nothing.
>How do I move through this?
First, I recommend reducing contact with your parents until you're at a point where they're not using up very much of your energy. Maybe even try out going no contact for a while, you can always say you were super busy for a while there and get in contact again if no contact doesn't work for you.
Second I think you need to do some serious grieving for the loving parents and happy childhood you should have had. It's going to suck but I firmly believe nothing good comes up shoving your emotions down, they'll just fester if you don't deal with them.
I strongly recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents if you haven't already read it. It was incredibly validating for me to read that parents really do have a duty to protect their children. I haven't read Running On Empty: Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect yet but it gets recommended a lot and I like the author's newsletter.
You deserve better than someone who says "she will not reach out to us, we have to make plans with them." That's fucked up, I would never say that to someone I even halfways liked.
Everyone in this thread needs to read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
Woah. OP: this dynamic is probably quite normalised to you, but it’s absolutely not okay for him to treat you this way and his welfare is absolutely not your responsibility.
This brief exchange tells me that you have grown up with so much more dysfunction than a child should ever have to bear.
Please come hang around r/RaisedByNarcissists and r/CPTSD to get a feel of the impact of this kind of parental dynamic, and to learn the ways to disentangle yourself from that toxicity, or at least to reinforce your boundaries.
If you have the mental bandwidth for learning more about dealing with parents like this, I can highly recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. If you’re short on money I would be happy to buy it for you, i could send it to an Amazon locker or something like that, so you dont have to give out any details. Or you can listen to your first book for free on Audible if that’s an option for you.
There’s also some great resources on Yourube for dealing with parents like this. Doctor Ramani, Patrick Teehan and plenty others. Search ‘parentified child’, ‘toxic family dynamics’ ‘dealing with a toxic parent’ and ‘emotinally immature parent’.
Also check out this video by Crappy Childhood Fairy to see if some of the impacts of childhood trauma resonate with you (having a parent like your dad is absolutely a trauma in developmental terms, and his narcissistic immaturity can’t have occured in a vaccuum - there are likely other aspects of family life that have put an undeserved burden on you).
I highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ There's a good section in there on how to resolve complex feelings towards parents, like resentment, anger, hatred, etc. It doesn't preach forgiveness which I appreciated.
For those of you like me who aren't this lucky:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
May I recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents? It has a lot of really practical tips for dealing with people like that.
Check out Lindsay Gibsons book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
I suggest buying this book https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
There's nothing you can do until you move out. She's going to keep going until she gets you to do what she wants. She sounds unhinged.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
not 12 step but still every helpful = amazon will offer suggestions based upon the book and send you down a rabbit hole that you may find useful
You're not alone, I can promise you that. ❤️ We're here, and many of us have suffered through similarly shitty relationships. We know how devastating it can be to deeply love someone for (yet feel held hostage by) their potential, while simultaneously also seeing that the reality of them falls well below our own standards.
And you DO have standards, even though you acknowledge your struggles with low self worth. You do.
The self awareness you've demonstrated in your post will absolutely be your key to a happier, more fulfilling life by the way; listen to the voice inside of you that laments the lack of romance and cuteness in your life. Those are your standards trying to make themselves known. Deep down, you know you deserve to be shown respectful, reciprocal, compassionate love. You're already a way better advocate for yourself than you think - I can see it in the way you write. You know what's right for you. You know what feels like shit for you. You have a great grasp on reality - you are NOT crazy or "too dramatic".
If you want more sex, you are allowed to walk away and seek a partner whose drive better matches yours. (You deserve to feel the thrill of someone desiring you with every fibre of their being.)
If you want to be doted on and praised, you are allowed to walk away and find a partner whose love language is 'words of affirmation'.
If you want romance, girl, it is YOURS for the taking. You can and you will find it if you break up with this person and go searching.
To begin your search, I recommend starting within yourself by reading "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents": https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703?ref_=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=22065d8e-7251-4f44-95c9-62b3012759fb
I don't know what flavour of abusive your parents were/are, but this text lays some pretty great groundwork for further exploration into your unique childhood trauma.
Big hugs, and best of luck. ❤️ You can do this.
Here you go!
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_EDSVAFADC895JBE48WXJ
Go get yourself a copy of “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents!”
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_WY4Y8HD4QTKXN63W121Z
Thank you. It is... Very new to me. And very uncomfortable still!
I searched 'children' on Amazon to see if the market was still hot; first unsponsored result
It's a process. I've spent a long time trying to find ways to get through to my nmom and my enabler dad. After tons of therapy and getting myself on medication to deal with my ADHD, depression, PTSD, and so on, I found myself thinking more calmly and clearly.
I looked at my parents and realized . . . they don't act like adults. Their behavior and their thinking patterns aren't normal. And if most of my siblings and I have ADHD and several mental illnesses and weird thinking problems because of it, well, what are the odds that my parents also have those things? Only they aren't getting treatment for any of it. And my parents also both came from abusive households. My personal thoughts regarding my parents is they both have ADHD and when intense childhood trauma got added to that, the typical ADHD mood regulations issues and information processing issues got dialed up to an 11. They already naturally struggled with things, and then they grew up in environments where they were never taught how to human or interact appropriately and they were traumatized instead.
That doesn't excuse their actions or exempt them from accountability. But it does help *me* to understand that, because they were never willing to try to learn to do better, they have never become capable of doing better. Right now, they literally can't act like adults.
I mentioned to my counselor that I feel much less sad and angry about my parents' failing to actually be parents to me if I just don't think of them as parents at all but as very large children or slightly older cousins or something whose brains just don't work right. I just stop expecting them to be parents because they aren't and can't be.
She recommended Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, and I've found it a very helpful read. It confirms my beliefs (and as the child of a narc, that outside validation is helpful to me because I always doubt my perceptions and think they can't be real). My parents just literally can't adult. It's not in them, and there's not some magical set of right words or behaviors I can produce that will cause them to love me the way parents usually love their children. And that's not my fault! Accepting it doesn't mean I've given up or that I didn't deserve to be loved. It means I'm acknowledging reality. Without serious professional help, my parents are incapable of change, and they have repeatedly made it clear they will never seek such help.
I like, too, that the book goes into detail about how to interact with such people in ways that are less frustrating for us. There again, my beliefs that I discounted have been confirmed. The way to not lose my mind when talking to my parents is to . . . not expect a human interaction with them. To act like my dad is a child and my mom is an NPC. To never expect an emotional connection or true reciprocity with my mom. And I like that the book affirms that no one owes it to their parents to keep trying. That there's nothing *wrong* with having interactions with them if you choose to but to protect ourselves by not having expectations about those results, and that there's nothing wrong, either, with protecting ourselves by going NC.
I've also found it helpful to read parenting books to teach myself how to validate my own emotions and experiences and acknowledge my needs and care for them, and to surround myself with people who are validating and reciprocal and capable of actual relationships and to learn to trust them--to keep coming around, to help when I need help instead of just expecting me to show up for them, to actually mean it when they say or do nice things, and to never use my words against me.
The problem isn't me or you, and it never has been. Something broke our parents and left them incapable. Whether they can't change or won't, it doesn't matter. They aren't who we need them to be and they're not going to be. If we can take time and work that knowledge slowly into our beliefs and feelings, we can decide if we prefer shallow, one-way contact with them or no contact or what. But we can stop feeling repeatedly betrayed and disappointed anew when they don't turn into genuinely loving, supportive people and work on handling the sadness and feelings of disconnection and rejection from our childhoods. For my part, I don't think I'll ever *not* be sad that I didn't get to have real parents. But I can, with time, stop being completely devastated and destabilized by it. I can just accept it and focus on the good life I have.
You're doing a great job at handling a sad, hard situation. Be patient and gentle with yourself, and just keep reminding yourself that who they are isn't going to change.
Sorry that you’re going through a hard time. I can’t say what will help you or anyone else. I can tell you what has helped me in a meaningful way.
I learned what an Emotional Immature person was. From the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. By Lindsey Gibson PsyD. Her book is only $10 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
With this knowledge I was able to break the cycle I was in. Having been molested at 4 and not feeling safe in my own home. I became a people pleaser. I could tune into other people's emotional needs but only ignore my own. Once I learned what an Emotionally Immature person was. And what they made me feel like when I interacted with them. I was able to minimize or eliminate my interactions with these types of people. (Game Changer for my Emotional State.)
I read The Body Keeps the Score by Dr Bessel Van Der Kolk. (Check him out on Youtube.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_YApSkqsxM
I learned how to start releasing some of the trauma. I went to EMDR therapy for a while. He did a study on Prozac, a placebo, and Yoga. Yoga was the best long term healer of trauma. Learning how to be present in our own bodies so we can trust our emotional states. This sounded silly to me at first. But when I tried it because why not. It worked for me too. I am practicing mindfulness, meditation, yoga, and it has made a real difference in how I view the world. I can’t remember feeling so in control of where I go and how I behave. The extremely negative voice in my head has gone from a heavy metal band jamming every day. To John Denver. It's still there, it's just easier to ignore and it does not control my emotional state like it used to.
Dr Gabor Mate Does a deep dive into the science and psychology of how we develop Addiction, PSTD, ADHD, etc. Here is a 9 minute video done by After Skool on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVg2bfqblGI&t=15s
He worked with the most densely addicted population in North America. He tells a story about a big biker dude. He asked him, how does Heroin make you feel? I feel like I am 3 years old, I have a fever, and my mom is feeding me chicken noodle soup. He goes on to say why would you want to take this away from someone. Don’t ask why the addiction? Ask Why the Pain? When you can understand the pain you can begin to heal. Addiction is just a symptom of past trauma.
I am living proof that you can heal from Trauma. If any of this works for you, great. If it doesn't great, throw it out. But keep searching for things that will help you. You are worth saving even if everyone around you is telling you you’re not worth a damn. As far as social standing goes. I don’t really care if you have money or not. I do care if you can enjoy the small dumb things in life. The smell of a flower. The Sun rising and setting. The feeling you get when the sun starts to warm you up after a cool night. Getting out of your own head and enjoying a walk or hike. I felt so disconnected from the world for so long. I learned that two thirds of the population has experienced at least one ACE. Adverse Childhood Experience. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html
You might be a lot of things, but you are not alone. There are more people like us than there are so called normal people.
I hope you find peace. Cheers!
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents <- Book that changed my life
[this book](www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_25G6DCZQ5HCDDA43CTFV) has been good
Did he have conditional parents?? Did you? Many people consider it normal, or even desirable to avoid giving affection when someone isn't behaving the way they want them to. It's a form of passive aggression, not unlike him acting like an asshat if you don't desire sex with him. Put two people like that in a relationship together and you get textbook codependency.
Just remember that it's both of your job's to teach your kids not to do either of those things So they don't grow up to have shitty relationships when they get older.
He needs to maintain his own motivation and willingness to be a good partner, even if you're not in a place to act like a loving partner toward him. You need to assertively communicate your frustration with him being a shitty partner while at the same time maintaining the connection. If you react to feeling disconnected by creating more distance through withdrawal, and he reacts to feeling disconnected by creating more distance through acting like a man child, then there's nobody left to reestablish the connection that you both need if you want to have a happy and satisfied life together.
Two adult children together just make life hard for everybody.
Both partners need to agree to respond to distance by seeking closeness or the relationship will inevitably fall apart.
First:
>i don‘t know how to break the cycle.
That makes sense. You know who should be able to help figure out how to break the cycle? A therapist. Just because it didn't work for you in the past, doesn't mean it can't work for you, it just means that either the therapist(s) you've seen weren't a good fit for you or you weren't putting in the work. It's not going to be an instantaneous change; it will take time and effort. You can't expect to undo 22 years of trauma in 4 visits over the course of a month.
Second, work some reading in. Personally, knowledge and understanding was far more beneficial to me than therapy alone. I'd recommend starting with something fairly easy, like Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents.
Last, start small; to bastardize SR-71, your head's "so full of stars, you can't find a constellation."
You list off all the issues you're suffering from/dealing with, which make me think you want to tackle them the same way: All at once. Pick one issue, focus on changing and healing that, breaking it into even smaller parts if necessary. Personally, I'd say start with your aggression. Make a list of things that can or absolutely do set it off - using past examples if necessary - and how you wish you would('ve) handled it. With something like that in mind, work toward achieving that outcome. As a kind of example:
Say that anybody bringing up any of your eating habits/food choice is a trigger for your aggression; while they absolutely shouldn't determine what you should and shouldn't put in your body, you know an aggressive screaming match isn't conducive to addressing the topic, right? So what's a good choice for an initial step on changing your aggressive response?
Leave. Immediately.
As soon as the topic comes up, go for a walk. Get fresh air. Breathe. Collect your thoughts. Come back when you feel more prepared to have a discussion. And, after you come back, if you feel aggression starting to rise back up, then...
Leave. Immediately.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
If it's with somebody you care about (like a partner) or somebody who cares about you (like a best friend), maybe let them know - outside an argumentative time - that if you feel aggression coming on, you will walk away to collect yourself. A simple "code word" is good for this, like "Hey, if I say 'bananafucksocks' and then walk out, it's because I don't want to say anything to you out of anger, so I need to cool down and come back to the conversation." This tactic combines elements of mindfulness, conflict resolution, and physical movement/exercise, and - with time and effort - you will get better, both with handling your aggression and with needing less time to collect yourself.
Honestly, I have no clue if that is something that is taught in therapy, but I can tell you from personal experience that it works and it helps. It's something I taught myself while with my NEX and in the beginning, those were some looooooong fucking walks - there was even an argument that I ended up leaving 3 separate times for an hour - but eventually (about 2 years) I got to the point where it was only very specific triggers I had to walk away from, and even then it was for a 20 minute walk at most.
Best part? The traumabone is connected to the brainbone, so while you may only be focusing on aggression, the mindfulness aspect will slowly improve in other areas as well - like, "Hey, X thing makes me aggressive, but Y thing makes me nervous/paranoid/anxious. Maybe when I come across Y, I should take a walk while figuring out how to address it."
You can't map the whole night sky in a single night; find one star, build a constellation, and work your way out.
No offense , but i think you want to believe the relationship is salvageable. You want to believe the woman you thought she was growing up is inside her, somewhere.
Maybe it was. But it isn't there now. You aren't a trained therapist/psychologist and she firstly would need to admit fault without deflecting for any attempt at change to matter.
Your mother is a narcissist. This isn't hyperbole. She shows several overt narcissistic traits.
Her actions show she thinks anything not said or done in her favor is an attack, has little to no remorse for doing things she consciously knows would be hurtful to you or your others if it serves her, and has a million excuses why things not going her way is a travesty.
You say she was a good mom to you. Narcissists ironically on occasion make good parents, depending on their brand of the condition. Having someone who loves you unconditionally and thinks the sun shines out your rear end usually is more than enough ego fuel for some N's and it tempers their selfishness because they have your attention and affection.
I'd ask your sister if she thinks she was a good parent too. Some parents who are Ns treat one kid bad and the other great.
Nonw the less, she broke the family when you both were out starting on your own lives- prepping or away for college. It not a coincidence, my guy. She lost her ego batteries in her kids so she looked for a new fuel.
She's not going to change. Its not your fault she is who she is, but it is your fault if you repeatedly headbutt a brick wall.
And to look at you a little bit, the expectation she will ever truly be sorry or be willing to do the work to heal you or your siblings relationship is an unhealthy one.
Take her actions at face value, and start to learn how much of who she is now you can tolerate.
Sorry that you’re going through a hard time.
I can’t say what will help you or anyone else. I can tell you what has helped me in a meaningful way.
I learned what an Emotional Immature person was. From the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. By Lindsey Gibson PsyD. Her book is only $10 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
With this knowledge I was able to break the cycle I was in. Having been molested at 4 and not feeling safe in my own home. I became a people pleaser. I could tune into other people's emotional needs but only ignore my own. Once I learned what an Emotionally Immature person was. And what they made me feel like when I interacted with them. I was able to minimize or eliminate my interactions with these types of people. (Game Changer for my Emotional State.)
I read The Body Keeps the Score by Dr Bessel Van Der Kolk. (Check him out on Youtube.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_YApSkqsxM
I learned how to start releasing some of the trauma. I went to EMDR therapy for a while. He did a study on Prozac, a placebo, and Yoga. Yoga was the best long term healer of trauma. Learning how to be present in our own bodies so we can trust our emotional states. This sounded silly to me at first. But when I tried it because why not. It worked for me too. I am practicing mindfulness, meditation, yoga, and it has made a real difference in how I view the world. I can’t remember feeling so in control of where I go and how I behave. The extremely negative voice in my head has gone from a heavy metal band jamming every day. To John Denver. It's still there, it's just easier to ignore and it does not control my emotional state like it used to.
Dr Gabor Mate Does a deep dive into the science and psychology of how we develop Addiction, PSTD, ADHD, etc. Here is a 9 minute video done by After Skool on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVg2bfqblGI&t=15s
He worked with the most densely addicted population in North America. He tells a story about a big biker dude. He asked him, how does Heroin make you feel? I feel like I am 3 years old, I have a fever, and my mom is feeding me chicken noodle soup. He goes on to say why would you want to take this away from someone. Don’t ask why the addiction? Ask Why the Pain? When you can understand the pain you can begin to heal. Addiction is just a symptom of past trauma.
I am living proof that you can heal from Trauma. If any of this works for you, great. If it doesn't great, throw it out. But keep searching for things that will help you. You are worth saving even if everyone around you is telling you you’re not worth a damn. As far as social standing goes. I don’t really care if you have money or not. I do care if you can enjoy the small dumb things in life. The smell of a flower. The Sun rising and setting. The feeling you get when the sun starts to warm you up after a cool night. Getting out of your own head and enjoying a walk or hike.
I felt so disconnected from the world for so long. I learned that two thirds of the population has experienced at least one ACE. Adverse Childhood Experience. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html
You might be a lot of things, but you are not alone. There are more people like us than there are so called normal people.
I hope you find peace.
Cheers!
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_NBRGFVH2HW5K2WMJ3SZB
You aren't alone. Both of my parents are giant narcs but in very different ways. I think thars why they were able to tolerate one another long enough to have two kids.
My mom is very self absorbed, can't listen to your words because she's thinking about what she's going to say about herself when you stop talking. At 60 she dies her hair every other week because a gray strand is showing. She spends more time in front of a mirror as both of my teenage daughters combined. The only love language she's familiar with is dollar signs. She still dresses like she's 20 and can party like a rock star only to come home and tell you literally every single thing wrong with every single piece of you.
My dad is money and power hungry. Success is measured by how many people are under his control whether at home or work. He is an imposing brute of a man, a bully who will throw his weight and perceived power around to get exactly what he wants and how he wants it. He was my husband's boss at one time and the day my husband crushed his hand and had to go get a cast he called him while sitting beside me in the car and my dad says "You better get your ass to work tomorrow or I promise you I will make your family starve" - that was the last time I spoke to the man, eight years ago. A few months later he threw a table with hot soup at the forman on site who had a personal relationship with the owner of the company and had enough and finally went to the owners. By that night the owner had driven five hours and was on my dads doorstep giving him two choices 1- attend anger management and a written apology or 2- you're fired. They took his work truck and everything else of theirs he had and gave him until the next morning to give them his decision. He chose #2, he lost a job paying $120,000+ a year. They subsequently found out that he had been stealing materials, using company employees to do his personal running around and repairs on his house, very often was at the casino during work hours with the work truck that had a gps. They didn't press charges so of course it boosted his ego and emboldened him. At this moment in time though he is alone, single and unemployed while recovering from double carpal tunnel surgery in a small apartment. Both the children he had a hand in raising are damaged. My half brother did his first stint in jail (juvy) at 11 for Christ sakes and my half sister got pregnant at 14...shes 35 and her daughter just turned 20, a month after she had her third baby.
All this is to say that while all of our relationships with our narc parents are different, the damage is the same. It doesn't matter if one or both of your parents are narcicists, it doesn't matter if they are both abusive or not, the damage is the same for all of us. The journey to heal is a hard road that not a single one of us asked for.. But! Breaking generational trauma and abuse starts with recognizing there is a cycle that exists, a cycle that needs to be broken and remade. You can lay the ground work of healthy relationships for the future of your bloodline. Healing starts on the inside.
My heart goes out to you. I just ordered this book that you might find really therapeutic, I have anyway.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_GMQMXSNCPAQQ7PADT1BX
Also, research the term "gray rocking the narcissist in your life", I truly think this tactic saved my life. I didn't know I was doing it either, it just became my default state, a defence mechanism. My mother always called me cold but I didn't understand why, until I learned of that term and what it meant. Had I not subconsciously adopted this coping mechanism I don't think I'd be here today. The stress and feelings of oppression would have driven me to suicide. My biggest accomplishment in life is not being anything like either of them.
If you can't afford therapy you can still afford books from the library! I recommend the same book literally everyone on here recommends: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703 For me it was extremely eye opening and taught me that my childhood wasn't bad because I was bad, it was bad because my parents are shitty people. It seems trite, but just confirming that yes, you feel like shit because THEY made you feel like shit, not because you ARE shit is extremely healing and helpful.
If books aren't your thing there are tons of free videos on YouTube that (once again) everyone on here recommends because they are very good and helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIELB1mz8wMKIhB6DCmTBlw
I watch these two literally every single day. It's gone from me watching them intently and maybe crying every time to just having them on in the background and tuning in and out as I do other things (which I think is a signal that I am healing and no longer needing the reinforcement that I AM NOT FLAWED I simply had terrible parents).
I am also suddenly and unexpectedly in a relationship that I thought I would never be worthy of. I am also low key constantly worried I'm not good enough for him. He also has mental health issues and something extremely helpful for BOTH of us is to just talk about it. I'll tell him when I've had an episode of whatever I've been going through and he understands, and the fact that we both choose each other every day knowing we both are broken turns our broken-ness into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi
I’m a 32 year old pastor’s kid. My parents were very protective and had a lot of the same tendencies. My Dad also hoped I would become a pastor. Your parents probably do have good intentions, and they are indoctrinated, and they are harming you. All of these can be true at the same time. My Dad still tries to bludgeon me with the fact that “he has good intentions.” I highly recommend reading this about intent vs impact: https://www.healthline.com/health/intent-vs-impact . Their “good intentions” don’t excuse any harm done.
Do what you can to hold on to yourself and carve out areas that yours where you can. I know it’s hard now, but figuring out who you are (even if you can’t share it with anyone) will pay huge dividends later. When you can’t and you need to just cope and survive, that’s ok. There will be time to heal later. For now, playing along to get as much freedom as you can is probably a good strategy.
I also highly recommend getting some distance when you can, which is probably when you go to college. There are some decent colleges that will help you heal that are still Christian, so your parents will probably approve. I went to Taylor University. It’s absolutely conservative, but less so than home schooled Evangelical. A college like that could give you a safe place to stretch for the first time and transition to the rest of the world.
I also highly recommend this book if you can read it without it blowing up: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ . I get that you aren’t an adult yet so you don’t have the room to set the kind of boundaries it discusses, but it might be helpful to examine their immaturity as people who need to control your actions so strongly.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=nodl_
I'm so sorry you've been dealing with all your life! many respectful hugs of symtpathies!
I have been reading https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details and in it, there is a chapter about minimizing the affect a parent has on you.
In particular, this may help https://better-than-gold-faith.blogspot.com/2019/09/maturity-awareness-response-to-immature.html
This hits so closed to home and is why I have C-PTSD.
I been reading https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details a lot lately and it's very validating.
NTA, they don't want you. I'm so sorry you had to grow up this way. You may want to find this book useful: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Hey OP, I've just discovered this book, and it's been quite enlightening for me. It might be for you, too. Here's the Amazon page so you can have a Look Inside...
https://www.amazon.com.au/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Congratulations on breaking the cycle. Your toddler is lucky to have you :)
Best I can under my flare I try to reply. You are important. Too important to give up your life to suit anothers. Without you she d be not where she is. Your burn out give away that the poblem is you were prob never validated and feel insecure as what healthy boundaries are. You may have not had a safe environment. Or may cared for elders and had responsibilities beyond your young years. You felt your role is to give and take care and be responsible where others are not. Now the "job" is not voluntary anymore, it eats at you, while you remain in denial about your needs.( Without fault if your own, we all get pruned prematurely to fit family's and societys needs) But you need to start doing things for yourself before you blow up, and you have 0% left to give. Burn out is serious and you may underestimate the consequences. You probably care more about the impact of your burn out on others than on your own I presume. Check out when the body says no by Gabor Maté https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c6IL8WVyMMs nothing will be more telling than this
And this book reframes it all, without blame on anyone, perhaps saving years of therapy https://www.amazon.de/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
PS the reason i made this answer so extensive is bc you are much like my partner. I tell him to make more time for himself. I wish the same for you. Blessings
>I think I can recognize a healthy relationship.
The vast majority of us disagree. Maybe listen earnestly even if you don't agree.
The fact these things have been happening in your relationship and you haven't left is enough to be honest.
Listen, I'm not trying to be mean. When you wrote you grew up in an abusive household, I knew. Its really not your fault. Unfortunately, Its also hard to recognize it without a frame of reference.
He's a closet abuser and mooch waiting for you to get hitched before he starts the real abuse.
There are a thousand "my husband is lazy and abusive posts here a month. Do you think he is more or less likely to be the same as their husbands?
Its not about you. Its the lifestyle he wants. He's going to abuse you because he feels like shit for living like he does or wanting to live like he does, and by bringing you under his heel he can feel better about doing it because you're lower than he is.
Just walk. You're gonna be a doctor for fucks sake. Even if you hit every branch on the way down the ugly tree someone who will appreciate what you can offer as a partner (let alone as a person, though I'm sure your great) will actually treat you like a prize.
That's a huge red flag, but they might not notice if you're discrete about the fact you're expecting them to do your emotional regulation for you. And if they grew up with emotionally immature parents too then they might even find it alluring.
It's important to reassure each other in a relationship, and important to self-validate and reassure yourself. Both partners need to have enough emotional literacy to be able to do that for themselves, as well as help their partner effectively, as well as enough maturity that they don't expect the other to do it for them. If you've got two people who can't provide that support for themselves and can't provide that support for their partner, to call it a red flag is the understatement of the year. It's more of a mushroom cloud.
This book may help -- https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
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Read the stories here for a start. He seems enmeshed & needs to set boundaries.
Buy him a book https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
It takes a while to "get it". Some things I only now realise were strange, decades after they happened.
Have you ever read this? Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved ParentsI’m halfway through and am always finding it super beneficial. There’s also this: r/emotionalneglect
NTA and my heart really goes out to you. I’m a full grown woman and I had to take a day off work this week because I’m so sleep deprived I couldn’t function. I may need to go the doctor and get signed off for a little while as I am not functioning very well, so I really understand how you are feeling.
My mother is also a bit like yours. Anger was the default response whenever my behaviour deviated from whatever she deemed it should have been. And she had ideas about things that I know know as an adult are insane.
Being unmotivated is not the same a being lazy. You are not well and need some help. Please please do speak to the school nurse and tell them what’s going on, both inside you and at home.
You may not technically be an adult yet but you’re not far off.
I cannot, cannot recommended this book enough.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=nodl_
Wishing you all the best OP
That's a great book!
I also love Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents because the author explains enmeshment SO well: https://www.amazon.ca/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
But the one I stayed up all night reading was The Narcissistic Family: https://www.amazon.ca/Narcissistic-Family-Diagnosis-Treatment/dp/0787908703/
OP, I wish you the best in all your endeavors. You are in a far better place to help yourself than before, thats a good thing.
Your parents really did you wrong. Don't hesitate and don't turn back, continue to stay away from them until you are in a good place.
My mom had not worked for all 13 years of her marriage, when my father died and for the first time had to bring in money + raise two girls by herself. She had nothing to her name, other than her college degree. Her own parents had already passed away. The first few years were messy, eventually she hit her stride and had a fairly successful career. I think being on her own was what she needed. That sense of agency and freedom she found for the first time as an adult, really drove her (even in otherwise shitty circumstances). She did it again at 55 when she went back to college and changed fields. She is an example for why women should have our own money. She's also example of hope. It's never too late.
Btw, here's a book that might be of interest to you: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents by Lindsay Gibson. Her other book, 'Who you were meant to be', is also good. There should be pdfs floating around.
Good luck!
>Again, not a child.
Of course it's a child. Child is used in the relational sense here, not the developmental age sense. That's how you get titles like:
"Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
>even more reason the woman has a right to an abortion, there was no consent to existence, so its done by the woman by continuing the pregnancy.
So in your view, the life of someone else should be in the hands of the person with the biggest interest in their demise? Isn't that more than a small conflict of interest?
>No, I've just seen your responses in another thread.
My objection remains. It's text. It doesn't "sound" like anything. It's just how you decide to read into things.
>Pretty sure abortions happen before a child is created
If there was no child at the time, no one would have an objection to abortion.
Just gonna drop this here:
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Ugh so sorry - sounds similar to situations I’ve been in before. Remembering what matters most is that the actions of others speaks of them not you. You’re doing your best and these people are shaming themselves by acting inappropriately.
I’m not sure how much you enjoy confrontation or boundary setting. But people who most need it will continue to push on your boundaries. As a woman we are punish to absorb vs putting our needs at the front. Your body is under trauma mode or alert mode. In PTSD world it’s called your idrive senses meaning you of course can’t function or remember since you’re just trying to survive. So please please be kind to yourself to start taking the pressure off where you can.
And ugh - That awful coworker who has chosen you as her personal punching bag or entertainment is going to be a practice person for you. Think of your boundary setting as a muscle you’re going to have to exercise until it gets strong. Set out small ways (changing subject when she’s starting to focus on herself or say oh i’m being called - whatever works). Just nothing extreme so you don’t feel overwhelmed. Over time you can get more direct or go full - I need to focus right now & turn to your desk and IGNORE. That coworker sounds like a Narcissist - so look up grey stoning if you need further tactics to cut off her supply of your attention.
If all else fails - I’ve heard of setting clear boundaries out to coworkers. It’s ok you’re not fully diagnosed - just label it as you feel comfortable. Even if you don’t send a document to others how you work, at least you know what you need. So if people push at you - push right back as your needs are important too!
Overall I’m again sorry for all this - but know again, this speaks volumes of others. If they can’t respect your boundaries, then don’t put much value into what they say or internalize their BS. Even children respect boundaries and understand consent to treatment - gross your coworker is too immature to understand… so boo on them!!!
Here’s a helpful post about defining your work boundaries
Also if it helps learning about emotional maturity- this book helped me a lot on how to get powerful against bullies! It’s focused on parents, but really it’s definitely helps you with any authority/peer interactions
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_7DM1TW6WGEJ5Z3Z2FAYA
You’re in a very disempowering situation under that sort of toxic control (which is not okay - it absolutely constitutes emotional abuse). And the best thing you can do to empower yourself is to arm yourself with information on toxic family dynamics, narcissistic abuse, emotional manipulation, and controlling behaviours. It sounds like your mother is emotionally dependent on you in an unacceptable way - with little agency in other areas of her life, she exerts a toxic degree of control over you, depriving you of agency.
Some resources to begin with are:
- Patrick Teahan on YouTube
- Dr Rimani on YouTube
- Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and amazing book that I recommend highly
It’s going to be rocky trying to navigate your way out of this controlling abuse. You will need a wide base of support from lots of different sources. And a good, supportive therapist if you can access one.
You are absolutely not responsible for your mother’s emotional well-being or her reaction to your forthcoming move. If you have the spare emotional resources, you can guide her towards appropriate support for herself like a therapist or towards nurturing healthy friendships or hobbies. But don’t take responsibility for her. She’s an adult and she alone is responsible for the emotional consequences of her actions. You cannot let her impede your life.
A healthy parent supports and encourages, nurtures and guides you towards your goals. A healthy parent celebrates your increasing independence, respects your privacy and encourages you to make your own decisions. A healthy parents builds you up, and doesn’t seek to shackle and restrain you practically and emotionally.
Baby is sort of a colloquial term. It could go either way.
When people are generally talking about the unborn and abortion is not on the table, it is common to refer to the unborn child as "your baby" or "my baby".
Strictly speaking, I don't think the word choice matters. For the purposes of this debate, whether you call it a baby, an unborn child or a ZEF, it is still a human individual with human rights.
And you can be called a child as an adult. "Child" can be used relatively.
I am always going to be the child of my parents. And it is not uncommon to refer to the "adult children" of someone.
For instance a quick Google search turned up the following (completely unrelated to abortion) title of a book:
"Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal"
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
>when we talk about a bird child in the egg we still call it a egg it's only when it hatch dose it become a chicklin
Actually this is a misnomer. An egg by itself is more than just the chicken. It is the chicken as well as the shell and the yolk it uses to grow. An egg is not a chicken because it is more than just the chicken.
Also, you have to be wary of categorization errors. For instance, a seed is not a tree, but that is only because a tree is the name for the adult stage of that organism's life cycle, not because a seed is not the same type of organism as the adult.
That seed and that tree are both of the same species, and every tree that has ever existed of that species was first in that seed. The seed, like the egg, is both the young tree and the stored food and shell that nourishes the young member of the tree species until it can develop its own roots.
>It teaches how sexual dynamics work and how female nature is.
How do lay men have access to "female nature"?
I read so many books that explain human nature to me.
For instance, this book explained my entire family dynamic and personality back to me. And half of americans aren't securely attached so would have a similar family/general personality leanings similar to me.
TRP wouldn't read a book like this, they would think it's gay.
But medical and scientific knowledge is always expanding every single year. If you aren't reading, you don't know what the best and brightest minds are discovering about "female nature".
I understand a place for men to talk and say "women say this but so many women act differently". But acting like you have limited access to objective truth is something cult leaders do to control people.
> People think that pickup artistry or the red pill is all about guys that are obsessed with sex and are just trying to get laid, and that’s all they ever think about. But it’s not that. [...] When I talk about the red pill, I’m talking about intersexual dynamics and cutting yourself away from all of that.
This is just semantics and I'm not very invested in this point, but the first part of this seems mutually exclusive with the second part.
"It's not about sex... it's about sexual dynamics"? Which I guess is a good distinction but it's not as if it's unrelated to sex and getting laid.
> That's why pushing past LMR is a bad idea because it means she's not that into you. RP men should know that and act accordingly.
I 100% agree it is in men's best interests to do this.
Men will be happiest and healthiest if they follow this advice.
Secondarily, it's not like rapists ever go to jail, but it will also keep them out of jail, keep them from having way more "crazy exes", and they will have more respect for themselves as men of integrity and in good karmic standing.
They won't have to "hide" their authentic self which sounds silly but is actually a really big deal and helps develop real confidence.
"they've been poisoned/coddled (your pick) by instant gratification which is proving to be detrimental to society"
This is the opposite of the problem.
You're saying kids are being coddled when actually research shows the best thing a kid can have is a sensitive parent.
If kids don't have a sensitive parent, they have attachment issues and take it out on others.
You don't have to get emotional during an argument, but completely shutting down is as bad as over-reacting. Both are very unhealthy coping mechanisms.
Sounds like you BOTH had broken childhood.
You might consider these books:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703
Why Do I Do That?: Psychological Defense Mechanisms and the Hidden Ways They Shape Our Lives https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0988443120
Having gone through similar family situation before, it can be helpful to have ongoing support because though we can give advice today, in a week or month, the situation will continue to evolve. It's a good start that you've tried to set boundaries for yourself, and that you're concerned about your other family members, but to a certain extent, unfortunately it's kind of up to every individual to respond to their individual situation (e.g. if you say no to hearing about drama, your brother might get approached instead). You might consider joining some subreddits where people talk about this kind of issue as well, functions as a sorta support group:
Resources (may or may not resonate with you):
Check out the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/
It's probably aimed at folks at least a few years older than you, but it sounds like it might be relevant.
Yes there is. Anxious attachment often shows up as role-playing. You unconsciously play whatever role you think you need to play to get other people to like you. One of those roles is hypersexuality and pleasing people sot hat you can be assured of their affections and feel safe.
That's the other thing. You keep saying "vilify natural male sexuality" as if men's natural response to anything women do differently isn't to mock and dehumanize us. I'm a very sensitive person and every single time my feelings get hurt by a male it's "you're too sensitive, you're a baby, you don't live in the real world", etc. They do not, at all, even attempt to not vilify gendered differences.
And this is a gendered difference that benefits men. If men do not have a sensitive, empathetic partner to have children with, their children will grow up to have attachment issues. We literally need sensitive people in order for the species to survive.
I know we need not sensitive people too. I understand men talk to each other in a way that appears to be unhinged and cruel to me. But it's not my business. I let y'all do what you want, I just don't allow men to talk to me in a way that disrespects me.
I'm not here to shame people for doing what they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone, but you keep repeating this as if it's a normal thing to not want to vilify sex differences when that is the default for men.
Read this?
https://www.amazon.com.au/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
> Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
While I've not read this book, several friends (who also listen to Pod Therapy) highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
My father is a diagnosed narcissist. I know that pain all too well.
Someone here suggested I read the book “Adult Children Of Emotionally Immature Parents” not that long ago and it’s been very eye opening for me in a lot of ways.
If you can’t get your hands on a psychical copy you can always look for a digital copy as well.
It might be of some help to you.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
I’m sorry to hear of you & your sisters trauma as well. It’s such a deep pain of betrayal to not be protected & cared for by parents & at home. I wish everyone had a safe loving home.
If it helps, the empathy & non-resentment journey has been long & been more beneficial to me than to her or anyone else.
I made some painful mistakes that led to trauma by others & I deeply hated myself for a long time. Then I learned to have empathy & compassion for myself. To understand where I was at & why I couldn’t/didn’t make a different choice & to stop feeling responsible for the hurt other people inflicted on me. In that process I realized how much worse off my mom is. Now that I don’t resent her, our relationship isn’t really better, she’s not healed or better, but I feel less burdened, less pained, less frustrated by her decisions today. Resentment can be heavy. Warranted, by all means, but heavy to carry.
Maybe this is encouragement to you, maybe not. I’d like to think we can all live a little less burdened.
Edit to add: I havent read this book through, but what I have read is very helpful. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://smile.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_816T6614WJFXV9RS70EV
I really relate to this empty shell feeling. I felt like that for the longest time. Like I was alive but not living, you know?
I realised I didn't have anything I genuinely loved doing like a die-hard hobby and alot of my hobbies were ways to escape rather than enjoy because I loved them.
OP, if you can and want to, read this book it literally saved me a few months ago, and I spent weeks processing things in my childhood, I'd never took notice to.
It’s weird, it says ‘Can’t send that message to that user’ maybe it’s user error in my part though so feel free to message me.
To answer your question, not as much as I probably should be doing! I recently started seeing a new psych as my old one retired, so hopefully I’ll have better answers to that question soon. While loneliness is not generally impacted by whether people are physically present or not, I have a spinal cord injury which happened just under 2 years ago, but got suddenly much worse just as the pandemic hit. At the same time, I’ve also gone NC with my family, like you my early caretakers also caused a lot of trauma. So what I’m doing to handle the loneliness is to attack it from a few angles. Potentially the most relevant and one that changed my life, was recently reading this book which was recommended by another redditor and changed my life. I know that’s a bold statement but I stand by it. I otherwise tackle my loneliness by just browsing reddit and watching things online. I’ve recently discovered just how many youtubers are out there with a myriad of topics. I am reluctant to recommend things because I’m not sure what you’re into, but I’ve spent plenty of time on there are am happy to send you something amusing, entertaining, interesting, scholarly, whatever. I find people interesting and keep an open mind for all the different things people do with their lives. I also love to listen to music and spend time with my kitty, who gives me the strength to face each day. Anyway, I’ll stop rambling now. If you ever want to chat please send a message. I don’t have any profound answers but I’m told I’m a good listener.
Piggybacking off the top comment. My husband and I are in a similar stalemate with his father over a promised down payment. There’s a book you might find helpful. NTA
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_VK61DBD28EYVCKG6KQC2
I am about 3 years no contact. It was a long time coming and I wish I had done it earlier. Here's a book I read after already going no contact. I already knew these things, but it was nice to read. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson
it’s not necessarily about BPD itself but this book has helped me process why i am this way and encouraged me to attempt healthier ways of reacting and coping w stuff https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_KSE99NQCCX6CY71G0G00
I personally found this book helpful with my own family/upbringing (household with lots of trauma hx, un-diagnosed bipolar II, depression, anxiety, the works).
I want to say there is a free PDF somewhere online, at least of the checklists, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
adult children of emotional immature parents by Lindsey Gibbon, link here
there is also another book she wrote to be read after called recovering from emotionally immature parents
It sounds like you have an emotionally immature parent! If you have not read this book and its sequel yet, you should!
​
NTA you need this book
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_Bx2cGbWZZ3WG6
Some of us never saw correct examples of healthy relationships so how can we know. Then we spend our adulthoods hopefully trying to figure that out.
Look on the bright side that you're aware of the issue and you want to actively help yourself not wind up reflecting your family.
There are many great books that help with these issues.
For me it was Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson. Helped a lot.
You might benefit from a book I recently read called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, by Lindsay Gibson. Describes the psychological issues at play and gives concrete suggestions for dealing with such parents. https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Parents can be emotionally immature, and that can impact the emotional development and health of their kids. In a negative way of course.
I just found this book: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/ref=sr_1_1
Its like the author was a fly on the wall of my childhood home.
You're very welcome! If you're interested in some insightful reading material I highly recommend the book "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents."
It disarms much of the emotionally abusive tactics employed by the narcissist, and reveals it for what it is; the tantrums of an emotionally regressed toddler.
I’m very happy to have helped 💗 for what it’s worth, I speak from experience! My brother (29M) and I (33F) are going through a similar journey, processing our childhood trauma. He and I have a lot of shared similar memories, but we were also treated very differently by each of our parents, and it shaped us in very different ways.
I can’t recommend this book enough:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_mI66Fb84J1BZZ
NTA! I feel like this book would be very beneficial for you:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_V-25FbFSJ07BY
Therapy. Lots of therapy.
Also depending in the trauma there are all kinds of resourses that you can find to help you process what happened to you. For me the most helpful thing so far has been reading "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents". It helped me come to terms with their behavior and freed myself from the burden of trying to "fix" them.
For those 'wHo ShOuLd ToO' this book helps a little.
Hugs to everyone. If you got time, this book helped me somehow.
NTA. Yikes. It sounds like your mom punishes you for not being able to read her mind. I can’t recommend this book enough.
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_x7O1FbEKVJV18
NTA. I hope I’m not projecting too much, but sincerely the way you describe your family dynamic is almost exactly how I would have at your age. I’m 33 now and after a lot of personal development and therapy, I discovered that my parents behavior was unhealthy and at times outright abusive. The control they’re trying to maintain over you, their adult child, is simply too much. They’re being inappropriate and crossing boundaries, and I suspect they’ve conditioned you to believe this is normal your whole life. You are not a spoiled brat
I sincerely hope you check out this book, at least read a few of the reviews and see if anything resonates with you: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_bca0Fb2TATPDR
I wish you the best of luck! Please don’t hesitate to PM me if you need a kind stranger to vent to one-on-one.
NTA. I’m the child of overbearing parents and in hindsight I feel terrible for my ex-husband for being forced to live through it. Please set up boundaries NOW.
Are either of them narcissists? Emotionally immature? Maybe your partner needs this book
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_IaVUFbN6RKFHH
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_6KPUFbTYGW912
I resonate a lot with your post. This book was a great resource for me.
Get him this book maybe? It's really, really good.
I mean, you could call CPS, maybe? Ask your school councelor about ressources in your area. Also... call a helpline and ask them about ressources! Make a plan for him, schedule appointments with people who can help him. It's not about you, so you can probably do all of this without problem, right now or tomorrow.
hi there - I really feel for you in your struggle with all this. Be patient with yourself- you've just had your world turned upside down, and its OK to take the time you need to figure out what you want to do.
As I was reading this particular comment, it made me think of a book - maybe you would find it helpful - https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
This book might be for you. I’m going through a similar thing and especially during these times, it’s increased. This book was suggested to me and it’s helped validate and helped me understand a lot of my issues with my mum.
https://www.amazon.com.au/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
Yaaaassss!!! What we allow becomes the standard. Do not allow toxic behaviors in your midst. I have actually taken to learning how to label: emotional neglect, emotional abuse, and emotional blackmail aka using fear, obligation, and guilt as a means of control and power-over someone else. It's very effective to be able to label BEHAVIORS as abusive and not the people doing the behaviors. Here are some objective metrics you can use to hold people accountable to toxic behaviors:
Francis Frei's Trust Triangle. Authenticity, Empathy, and Logic (what you say and how you say it) she uses the concept of trust wobbles to help is understand areas we need to work on.
Brené Brown's Anatomy of Trust video. Which goes into detail on her BRAVING connection acronym, and the Marble Jar concept. Boundaries, Reliability, Accountability, Vault, Integrity (her definition is GOLD!! ), Non-judgement, Generous assumptions
Martha Nussbaum's work on objectification, Which I would also classify as a measure of dehumanization.
And it's important to clarify the meaning of respect. As abusers love to use the "If you don't respect my authority, I won't respect your humanity." line. We must be aware and call out such indiscretions.
.
Then as an extension we must understand our neuro-phisiology so we aren't being jerked around and manipulated so easily. See:
Becoming Attached by Karen on attachment theory
Pride and Shame by Nathanson on affect theory
Polyvagal theory in therapy by Dana on Polyvagal theory
The Brain the Changes Itself on neuroplasticity
Emotional Agility by David
Mindset by Dweck
.
I also level up my communication skills to be better able to communicate and call out abusive, neglectful, dehumanizing, and exploitive behaviors:
Crucial Conversations - tools for talking when stakes are high
NonViolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg
Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
Man, the more research and videos I watch, the more I realize this is NOT unique. These narcissists are so much alike and even though the abuse can be so varying on such a huge spectrum, they all check the a main bunch of "boxes" and it seems like we children of narcissists also have a lot of common themes in our lives just by being their children subjected to their narcissism. My moms name is Deb so I call it the "Deb show", were all a part of the Deb show and it's all props, man. all to get what she wants/her fix/validate herself/make herself feel important and needed. I found my anger issues becoming such a huge problem. My expectations of everyone around me were way too high. My parenting was not where I always imagined where it would be and I ended a marriage in divorce where my husband couldn't stand me and I don't fucking blame him. I wouldn't have been able to stand Deb 2.0 either. My sister ended up with a severe food addiction that ended in divorce and a gastric sleeve bc she was morbid obese. My brother is severely bipolar and reactive and is gay so they hate him for making them look bad. So, yeah they fucked us all up in different ways and it's taken until we're all over 30 to straighten our lives out from the HARD TURNS they made us take along the way. Now we see it and can make our own decisions and go with less contact. My Nmom lives across the street from me so I'm subject to her whenever she feels like walking over.
I spent 2 years in counseling to try and fix my anger and nothing helped until I realized on my own that she was a narc. The videos and channels I've found on YouTube have been stupid helpful in navigating how to change my mindset now that I know she's a narcissist. You gotta find healing.
I highly recommend reading this book. I've read it cover to cover at least twice and made a million notes and highlights. This helps tremendously with healing. adult children of emotionally immature parents
So, here's that video of the problem with being a daughter of a narcissistic mom
the guilt in wishing them dead
this guy's channel: Surviving Narcissism has been a game changer! He's like the Dave Ramsey of Narcissism i think, haha. I have sat and watched his videos and just take a notes because it's like he knows my mom. he can really help you understand them and how to interact with them and keep yourself safe.
Feel free to direct message me. ♥️
I say to myself at least once a day, “I can’t believe these are the people who raised me. How did this happen? How am I so different than them?” Through a lot of personal development and therapy, I’m uncovering that my parents have always been fundamentally incapable of empathy to the degree I wish they were.
I’ve found great comfort in these books:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0KvvFb39SJB9H
Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents: Practical Tools to Establish Boundaries and Reclaim Your Emotional Autonomy https://www.amazon.com/dp/1684032520/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_KLvvFbFF8P9FP
So there's this book I read recently about emotionally immature parents (spoiler: It's not about parents behaving like 5 year olds). It was eye opening and nerve wracking because in many places, it was like reading about my own mother and our relationship. Maybe it would help you? It may help you gain some insight and help you see that it's not you, it's her.
NTA and I’m going to armchair psychologist for a beat and say it sounds like your mom might have some narcissism. Healing from parents like this is a big process! I recommend this book:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_C3QnFbPF04R68
> The thing is, my dad passed away a few years ago, and I’m estranged from my mom’s side of the family, so I basically feel like I don’t have much of a family.
Book recommendation that my therapist had me read. Basically the symptoms of you losing your dad and being estranged from your mom are exactly what you describe vis feeling socially disconnected.
Even for those who had a mostly great home life growing up (as I did, minus typically overbearing Jewish mother things) I'd recommend it. Your parents are effectively your only social interaction for the first 5 years of life and shape a LOT of your personality and how you interact with the world, and it's important to understand how they shaped you.
I started reading this book last night after it was recommended by an acquaintance as something that every adult with unsatisfying parental relationships should read, and boy howdy there have been a few parts already that could have been written about me and my mom. I can't tell yet whether this will end well or not.
Happy Monday y'all, may your coffee be strong and your work week short. I'm eating a brownie for breakfast so I'd say mine's off to a good start 👍
NTA. You’re a wonderful sibling. You’re building important trust right now, with the people who matter, your sister and BIL. Your parents are violating all kinds of boundaries, and I fear this is only the start.
I saw someone else comment that your mom might be a narcissist. I agree with that assessment, and I think your dad enables her. This book can be an important tool for dealing with people specifically like your parents:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_yjkhFb2CZBXRE
YTA, and spending actual money on facepalm awards for people saying so (as opposed to spending it on, say, a nice wedding gift for your daughter) is cringy as fuck.
Really gives some clarity and comparison
The books:
1.Adult children of emotionally immature parents: how to heal from distant, rejecting, self involved parents
2.Running on empty
3.The emotionally absent mother
Their amazon links:
Check this out at Amazon.com Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_w-bYEbNFRECHA
https://www.amazon.com/dp/161448242X/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_macYEb7P5C8NF
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1615193820/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_SccYEbQ0AAJ74
Oof, I hope you know that your friend is the asshole here. Being touch-deprived is absolutely a thing. Next time you're apartment-hunting, keep in mind that cats really do help.
Also based on what you've said about your family, this could be really helpful
Sounds similar to my experience with my parents. I found this book helped me to understand them and modify my own expectations:
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703/
I recommend you give your husband the books “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_w9yLDbYT1K69C
and Stop Walking on Eggshells
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1572246901/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_w-yLDbM2PS9HF
The best thing I've learned from trying to teach myself about this (because therapists suck) is that you cannot force others to change. So it's the sad, but correct decision to just move on. permanently. No contact.
What's worse is your mom may also actually have no clue and may just be lying to cover up that she can't remember and wants to save face, or genuinely wrongly thinks that's how it went (gaslighting herself).
While not everything applied. I actually went through this book (below) once diligently, taking notes, highlighting things, using the materials the author recommends, and it helped me to remember so much more, make sense of so much more, find ways to cope with things or reassure myself I'm not crazy to just have to move on, and also give myself a little bit of "hey, careful not to bring this forward a generation by beginning to do it yourself."
It was shocking how validating it was and how many things applied to either or both of my parents, other parts of my family, or even myself at times since I was raised to think this was all normal. But it was also shocking to see how others have it so much worse in some regards.
It's called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson and I think it was excellent.
What is it about weddings that makes people into such entitled assholes?
You're NTA, OP, in the strongest possible terms.
My mom did the exact same thing, down to the literal tantrum, before my wedding, and I wish I'd put my foot down and stuck with my original "no". It's tough, because it is just a day, and having my cousin there didn't ruin my wedding or my memories of it, but my mom's behavior certainly tainted the day and our relationship from that point on.
Your mom's not going to change, and you have to decide if this is the hill you want to die on, but you are most assuredly NTA if you go through with it.
(This book helped me a lot. You may want to check out r/raisedbynarcissists as well for coping strategies.)
> I just wanted a normal supporting family..
That's what we all want, but we don't always get it.
I highly recommend this book:
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
However, one of the things it will tell you is that expecting your parent to change will likely only lead to disappointment. They almost never do.
Just read this. It was the book that finally put my parent’s issues in perspective for me. My parents were much like yours. Can’t recommend it enough.
https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703
> I don't know if it's a trait I've inherited from my Dad as he's pretty "beta"
Kids want to see their parents as flawless. They want to respect them, etc. It's a natural thing to do.
Your dad is 'pretty beta', so you've unconciously learned and adapted to be 'lesser' than him, in order to keep seeing him as a respectable man you look up to and learn from.
Kids adapt to please their parents when they (the parents) are emotional immature people.
This book might help you with it.
Don't know your story, but a friend of mine recommended "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson.
Really helped me to understand how my childhood (alcoholic father, bipolar mother) has affected my relationships and sense of self as an adult.
I can’t recommend this book enough to you friend
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents https://www.amazon.com/dp/1626251703/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_hmWYFbNE0PT31
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