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Codependency is a Cultural Curse.
I am far from the only person who asserts that. One need only dig into the early literature on sociology in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (see Adorno, Altemeyer, Arendt, Asch, Beder and a good two doezen others on the lists that begin on this website) to see that Beattie's, Mellody's, Schaef's, the Weinholds' and Whitfield's notions about "codependency" were formed out of whole cloth developed much earlier from observations of common cultural conditioning, instruction, socialization and normalization.
Stephen Karpman's Drama Triangle is probably the -- no longer -- "missing link" between the observations of sociology and the psychological formulations of such as John Bowlby (on attachment) that led to the notion of "codependency," per se.
The overkilling point I'm trying to make here is that almost everyone is "infected" with the pandemic to some extent, and that treatment must include the awareness of being surrounded by "sickening support" for codependent thinking and behavior.
Given that, however, may I suggest things the two of you can do together IF you're both at stage four of the five stages of therapeutic recovery and truly motivated to want to transcend the cultural contagion?
Why We Get so Desperate for Connection (in not-moses's replies to the OP on that thread)
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
Sternberg's Nine Kinds of Love to see (with those 10 StEPs) where one actually is in those kinds vs. where one would like to be
Understand the Drama Triangle... (NOT diagnosing, just saying that many (most?) CoDep's have a few abuse-installed BPD traits... which often becomes obvious either reading this article or attending as many CoDA meetings as I have since 1990.)
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book
Facing the Facts about Sex, Love & Romance in Our Time in ProcessFiend's reply to the OP on that thread. (Be sure to click on all the links therein to get the complete picture.)
I had the same problem for decades. I still have "riders on my mental school bus" who do so. But they don't get to drive the bus anymore. Here's how I got from there to here:
Continual review of the Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that I know exactly where me "buttons" are
Clearly understanding the Five Relationship Styles
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that I am able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
Staying aware of where I am on other people's Karpman Drama Triangles
DIS-Identifying with Learned Helplessness & the Victim Identity (see also not-moses's answers to a replier's questions there)
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Suggested reading:
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
Why We Get so Desperate for Connection (in not-moses's replies to the OP on that thread)
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Better Books on Codependency and Related Topics
Will I ever Get Over being Codependent? in not-moses's reply to the OP on that reddit thread.
First of all, if he wants any chance of getting in to a treatment center without any cash, he's going to need health insurance. The cheapest method would be to have him sign up for a plan on the Healthcare.gov Marketplace. Unfortunately, he has to have experienced a Qualifying Event to enroll outside of the open enrollment period. Looking at that list, most of those factors seem unlikely for a guy in his situation, BUT...worth a look.
IF he can sign up for a plan there, great. If not, you might want to look at getting him private insurance. It can get expensive, though. Either way, before he signs up for anything, take note of who his available potential insurance carriers are. Once you know that, there's a lot of footwork to be done, because you're going to want to call each treatment center and quadruple check that they are in network with any of the potential insurance carriers. Make sure not to sign up for insurance with a particular carrier before knowing whether or not they are in network for the treatment facility. Being out of network is extremely common, especially for the most prevalent model of treatment down there in Florida (ironically called the Florida model; in a nutshell, it is technically outpatient treatment that provides Sober Living facilities...insurance companies hate it...more on that later.) Another commonality for folks who have insurance that is out of network with a treatment center is for the treatment center to ask the potential patient to pay the remainder of their deductible up front. On a fresh insurance plan...that can also get monstrously expensive, depending on what the deductible is. In all honesty, I think your chances of finding a long-term, in-network solution on a cheap insurance plan are probably slim to none. That kind of thing just doesn't really exist anymore.
Just to give you some background on trying to get him help at a traditional treatment center; things are brutal for treatment centers right now. I work for a small one in Arizona, and we're struggling to keep our doors open, because major insurance carriers are simply not paying claims. As far as it's been explained to me, some of the major carriers made some bad bets on the plans that they offered in the Healthcare.gov marketplace last year, got destroyed by how many claims they ended up paying out, and are now passing the burden of that on to us. We heard from one major carrier that "it's cheaper to get sued for unpaid claims than it is to pay out all our claims." It's rotten to the core, but it's what everyone, all across the country, is dealing with right now.
Halfway houses tend to be more economical, but offer no actual treatment...just a cheap place to live. They're generally ineffective on their own in helping someone maintain long-term sobriety, unfortunately. Honestly, though...anything would be better than having him go live with someone who is selling/using drugs. That is a 99.99999% chance of failure right there. Don't let it happen, and don't let him convince himself, or you, that it is the best option.
Have you talked to your father about the possibility of laying down some ground rules for him coming to stay with you while he gets back on his feet? Maybe putting in to place something like random drug testing, or a system in which your friend has to contribute significantly to the household? Not even monetarily, but just helping out with things that need done? This would be mutually beneficial, because one of the biggest thing your friend needs right now is to be of service to others, and to develop some self-worth...
Finally, to the other user who suggested you make use of the Codependent's Anonymous material...I would greatly second that suggestion. I don't know what's wrong with their website, but here is an Amazon link to their primary reading material. Typing most of this post up was very difficult, because I am of the opinion that this is the kind of stuff your friend should be doing for himself. You can be there to support him, and do some of the footwork where he might not be able to...but ultimately, this is not your responsibility. It needs to be his responsibility...because if anyone cares about his success more than he does, he's likely going to falter, or outright fail altogether. Codependent's Anonymous teaches you how to be supportive in a way that is both healthy for you, and your friend, and it is an extremely valuable resource for anyone who has a loved one struggling with addiction. Similarly, Al-Anon is another program that can provide much of the same benefits.
I know that ultimately my post does not provide an immediate solution to his problem. I'm sorry to say it, but unless one of you stumbles upon some benefactor who takes in homeless recovering drug addicts, an "immediate" solution to your problem is more or less a Unicorn. Finding him a place to go will take a lot of work, will be stressful, and might not even work out in the end. That is the nature of the current state of things in the treatment industry right now. Trust me, as an industry employee...it's maddening, because we hate knowing that there are people out there who need help, but can't get it.
> how can I be sure if this is a codependent thing?
See what you think after reading this and the material at the links there: Facing the Facts about Sex, Love & Romance in Our Time in ProcessFiend's reply to the OP on that thread. (Be sure to click on all the links therein to get the complete picture.)
> what can I do to help myself?
Here are some suggested activities:
Why We Get so Desperate for Connection (in not-moses's replies to the OP on that thread)
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
Sternberg's Nine Kinds of Love to see (with those 10 StEPs) where one actually is in those kinds vs. where one would like to be
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Suggested reading at the links below and links therein. Just plow through it at your own pace without thinking you have to take any positions, make any commitments, do anything about it or even agree with any of it… and let the dots connect all by themselves.
Is Codependency a Common Cultural Curse?
Associating Abuse with Safety & Security in not-moses’s reply to the OP on this Reddit thread
Susan Forward's Emotional Blackmail online along with at least the first link in this article on dealing with the “F.O.G.” in manipulative relationships.
Patrick Carnes's The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families meetings and ACA's "big red book"
Suggested reading at the links below and the links there*in*. Just plow through it all over time without thinking you have to take any positions, make any commitments, do anything about it or even agree with any of it for the time being… and let the dots connect all by themselves.
Associating Abuse with Safety & Security in not-moses’s reply to the OP on this Reddit thread
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
A Draft Statement of Interpersonal Policy
Healthy Divorce in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that Reddit thread
Get two copies of Patrick Carnes's The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships, as well as Jiddu Krishnamurti's On Relationship and Melody Beattie's The Language of Letting Go, and (both of you) read them with highlighters and pens to make notes in the margins. (Seriously.)
And while you're waiting for your amazon packages, see...
On Beating Ourselves Up for What We Did in the Past in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that thread
Five Relationship Styles ... independent, dependent, interdependent, co-dependent and counter-dependent.
Consciousness, Codependency, Counterdependency & Interdependency......in three popular songs
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
Carnes's Nine Paths to Codependency
Finally, go separately to six Codependents Anonymous meetings and consider getting their "big blue book."
Suggested reading at the links below and the links there*in*. Just plow through it all over time without thinking you have to take any positions, make any commitments, do anything about it or even agree with any of it for the time being… and let the dots connect all by themselves.
The 12 Dysfunctional Rules of the Narcissistic Family
Emotional Blackmail & the FOG of Fear, Obligation & Guilt (because that's probably what she is trying to do with your son)
Sounds like she was probably raised by a hyper-authoritarian parent of her own; conditioned, in-doctrine-ated, instructed, imprinted, socialized, habituated, programmed and normalized to that type of parent-child relationship; and imitating her own parental abuser because that's the only parenting style she knows.
Mal Narcs -- as one will discover over on r/RaisedByNarcissists (but be cautious over there; things can get pretty rambunctious) -- are pretty much impossible to "reason" with because it is imperative that they be In Control and seen as right.
I would share all this with your husband... and watch & listen very carefully to determine his reaction to it all over time.
AND I would look into Codependents Anonymous meetings, CoDA's "big blue book," Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Familiesmeetings, and ACA's "big <em>red</em> book" to develop a support system.
Finally, I'd get copies of Susan Forward's excellent books, Toxic Parents and Emotional Blackmail. Equipped with all the above, I'm pretty sure YOU at least will be just about "bulletproof."
I always ask, "Where is this person on the the Five Stages of Addiction Recovery?" And "Is there any reason to think they're going any further on the basis of anything I have to say?" So read that first, because it may save you from having to read the rest below.
Associating Abuse with Safety & Security in not-moses’s reply to the OP on this Reddit thread
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website
Carnes's Nine Paths to Codependency
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Better Books on Codependency and Related Topics
u/ ProcessFiend’s “Narcissist as Glutton. Codependent as The Next Meal.”
Your Marriage or Your Sanity in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that Reddit thread
I always ask, "Where is this person on the the Five Stages of Addiction Recovery?" And "Is there any reason to think they're going any further on the basis of anything I have to say?" So read that first, because it may save you from having to read the rest below.
Associating Abuse with Safety & Security in not-moses’s reply to the OP on this Reddit thread
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website
Carnes's Nine Paths to Codependency
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Better Books on Codependency and Related Topics
u/ ProcessFiend’s “Narcissist as Glutton. Codependent as The Next Meal.”
Your Marriage or Your Sanity in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that Reddit thread
Suggested reading at the links below and the links there*in*. Just plow through it all over time without thinking you have to take any positions, make any commitments, do anything about it or even agree with any of it for the time being… and just let the dots connect all by themselves.
u/ ProcessFiend’s “Narcissist as Glutton. Codependent as The Next Meal.”
"Love" is NOT what WE were Taught to Think it Is, which includes a definition what love actually is that works really well when I apply it
A Draft Statement of Interpersonal Policy
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Suggested reading at the links below and the links there*in*. Just plow through it all over time without thinking you have to take any positions, make any commitments, do anything about it or even agree with any of it for the time being… and let the dots connect all by themselves.
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Suggested reading at the links below. Just plow through it all over time without thinking you have to take any positions, make any commitments or do anything about it for the time being… and let the information sort of “percolate” all by itself. (This is all stuff I had to learn the hard way, btw.)
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Carnes's Nine Paths to Codependency
Are We Addicted to Fixing and Rescuing Others?
Working <em>together</em> on Codependency in a Committed Relationship in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that reddit thread
Sounds pretty enmeshed from this side of the screen. Suggested reading at the links below. Just plow through it at your own pace without thinking you have to take any positions, make any commitments or do anything about it for the time being... and let the dots connect all by themselves.
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Dis-I-dentifying with Learned Helplessness (+ not-moses's answers to a replier's questions there)
And may I ask a question to clarify matters vis further suggestions? Are you and your mother members of a fundamentalist / evangelistic church?
Okay. Suggested reading then:
Still Stuck in the Muck of RTS? There IS a Way Out.
SIQR, the 10 StEPs & Recovery from Religious Trauma Syndrome: A How-To Guide
Dis-I-dentifying with Learned Helplessness & the Victim I-dentity (and not-moses's answers to a replier's questions there)
Do I need Exit Counseling or Deprogramming?
To find an understanding, secular therapist if you need one, see my reply to the OP on Decided to start therapy
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Working <em>together</em> on Codependency in a Committed Relationship in not-moses’s reply to the OP on that reddit thread
Mutual Commitment to Recovery when both Partners are Codependent
Get him The Best Books on BPD: See section four of A CPTSD Library, and start with Kreisman’s (2010 edition), Friedel’s or Bockian et al’s.
Have him read The Bedrock Cause of BPD in the added section of Complex PTSD: How we "Catch" It. How we Recover from it. and "Can't live with 'em; Can't live without 'em" – Codependency, the Drama Triangle, and the "Dark Diagnosis" while he's waiting for the first book to arrive.
Turn him on to Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book," where boundary development is fundamental.
Hmm. Look into Codependents Anonymous meetings and CoDA's "big blue book." Go to a few different meetings yourself to get a sense of which ones might be best for dad if he will go with you to them.
He might also respond to a beginner level book like Melody Beattie's famed Codependent No More, but only if he is pretty solidly at the third stage.
Uh, well, CoDA has its <em>own</em> "big book" for 25 years.
> You need to be as fully in the present as you are able to be.
Mindfulness straight up. (It's THE hot new -- and molto-effective -- thing in modern psychotherapy.
> paying attention to yourself first is the right thing, not the selfish thing
Heard regularly in Codependent Anonymous meetings and seen again and again in CoDA's "big blue book," as well as most of the <strong>Better Books on Codependency and Related Topics</strong>.
If intrigued, see...
"Is Codependency a Common Cultural Curse?" in ProcessFiend's extensive and link-loaded reply to the OP on this thread, and...
DEEP Cleaning for Sex, Romance & Relationship Addiction (here entitled "Recovery Experience")
Between the contacts you can make for sponsorship through the CoDA website, the meetings you can do online there, MB's book, CoDA's own big blue book, and such as you may be able to glean from the information at the links below, you should be able to make plenty of headway. It's all about progress, not perfection, so one has to accept slips here and there. But over time, the big ones, at least, become pretty rare if one continues to learn and practice. (Went to my first CoDA meeting in 1990. Have read all these books and more since then.)
"Is Codependency a Common Cultural Curse?" in ProcessFiend's extensive and link-loaded reply to the OP on this thread
Facing the Facts about Sex, Love & Romance in Our Time in ProcessFiend's two replies to the OP on that thread. (Be sure to click on all the links therein to get the complete picture. By the time you're done diving into all the rabbit holes, I'm pretty sure you'll know many things most people will go to their graves without understanding.)
I went to Codependents Anonymous book studies for about 10 years. We read the CoDA blue book and CNM, of course. And the we got into many of these. As a result, most of the regulars at those book studies now have "masters' degrees" in recovery from codependency and make excellent CoDA sponsors for newcomers to the fellowship.
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
ACA meetings and ACA's "big red book"
While it may seem like a long way around the barn, you might benefit from going to some CoDA meetings and getting into their "big blue book." CoDA could (I think more accurately) be called "Relationships Anonymous" and is very much focused on developing a healthier sense of self that knows how to set boundaries with each person one encounters. (Many of the members are abuse survivors. It's probably the #1 support & recovery group in the English-speaking world for victims of interpersonal abuse.)
Another useful 12 Step group for survivors is ACA meetings (and ACA's "big red book").
Answering the title question: In general, not unless they have been tuned up somewhere like...
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
ACA meetings and ACA's "big red book"
And have read (or listened to) things like...
The Malignant Narcissistic vs. Needy Codependent Polarity
AM on Having a Relationship with a Narcissist
Suggested reading while observing your mental and emotional reactions to the concepts therein: Facing the Facts about Sex, Love & Romance in Our Time in ProcessFiend's replies to the OP on that thread. (Be sure to click on all the links therein to get the complete picture.)
And if you have strong reactions...
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book," looking for a sponsor and then working their 12 Steps (there are meetings online, btw; use their website to find them).
Suggested reading:
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
ACA meetings and ACA's "big red book"
Hah! Having been able to observe several OTs at close range (because I worked with them or knew them in CoDA meetings) I'd have to say the old saw about people in the helping professions having a tendency to be codependent may well be true. (Me? Hahahahahahaha!)
I got CoDA's "big blue book" and worked CoDA's 12 Steps to get some degree of realization about that. But it wasn't until I developed and began to use the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing as a mindfulness meditation "supercharger" that I really accepted, owned and appreciated the conditioning, instruction, socialization, habituation and normalization to rescue my Learned Helplessness & Victim Identified adoptive parents when I was little.
I'm sure I've met at least two dozen people in the HPs with similar conditioning.
Given the depth of conditioning, instruction, socialization, habituation and normalization to which your mind was pretty likely exposed well before you ever met this person, a process of DEconditioning, etc., seems to be necessary (as it is for most of us; been in CoDA for 29 years, btw). See also Carnes's Nine Paths to Codependency.
I found that merely trying to change interpersonal behavior rarely worked; I had to change the mind that it came from. And here's what I did:
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book," as well as getting a sponsor and working the 12 Steps
Understanding the Karpman Drama Triangle in depth and detail to raise my awareness of who's doing what to who, as well as Why We Get so Desperate for Connection (in not-moses's replies to the OP on that thread)
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
And -- specific to the relationship you described -- all this:
AM on Having a Relationship with a Narcissist
Narcs, Intimidation & What One Can Do
The Malignant Narcissistic vs. Needy Codependent Polarity
If you dig deeply into all that over time, chances are good you'll not only dig out of the current deal but also dodge this sort of a bullet in the future.
My not be a bad idea to start here:
Learned Helplessness & the Victim Identity (which includes a link to how to get out of it)
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
DIS-Identifying with Learned Helplessness & the Victim Identity (see also not-moses's answers to a replier's questions there)
Books for the Adult Children of Narcissistic Parents
Better Books on Codependency and Related Topics
Information is power. If we get some and use it.
My barren, adoptive mother needed a child to live her life through. I carried her needs on my back for a long, long time. Then I realized I was at least as sick as she was as a result. With the support of the CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book," as well as the material at the links that follow, I was able to draw the line on her inability to grow up... and just move on.
Books for the Adult Children of Narcissistic Parents
Will I ever Get Over being Codependent? in not-moses's reply to the OP on that reddit thread.
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
I understand that Rage IS a Stage..., believe me. But acting upon it without due consideration of the possible upshots may cause far more grief than it resolves.
I wouldn't say anything to her until you've read all the stuff below and been in therapy long enough for the therapist to know when it may be useful to do so. (Oftentimes, frankly, it's of no use whatsoever.)
Confronting Abusers & Handling Rage Effectively
Totalistic Blaming did NOT Work for Me
Hoping "They" will Understand
Validation Addiction in not-moses's reply to the OP on that thread
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
DIS-Identifying with Learned Helplessness & the Victim Identity (see also not-moses's answers to a replier's questions there)
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
It sounds like it's possible that your mind may have been conditioned, instructed, socialized and normalized to willingly but unconsciously Tolerate Abuse (in not-moses's reply on that earlier thread). Would you be willing to have a look at this to see where your "buttons" may be?
If so doing reveals such conditioning, may I suggest reading the following?
Associating Abuse with Safety & Security
Why We Get so Desperate for Connection (in not-moses's replies to the OP on that thread)
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Facing the Facts about Sex, Love & Romance in Our Time in ProcessFiend's reply to the OP on that thread. (Be sure to click on all the links therein to get the complete picture.)
Suggested for further investigation:
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
The lyrics while listening to Alanis Morrissette's "Precious Illusions," "Death of Cinderella," and "Not the Doctor"
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
Understand the Drama Triangle... (NOT diagnosing, just saying that many (most?) CoDep's have a few abuse-installed BPD traits... which often becomes obvious reading this article.)
Can we give the "long, run-on sentence" a shot to see if you relate to it?
"If one was regularly neglected, ignored, abandoned, discounted, disclaimed, and rejected, as well as invalidated, confused, betrayed, insulted, criticized, judged, blamed, ridiculed, embarrassed, humiliated, denigrated, derogated, victimized, demonized, persecuted, picked on, dumped on, bullied, gaslighted, scapegoated, and/or otherwise abused by others upon whom they depended for survival in early life, they may have been programmed, conditioned, instructed, socialized and normalized to certain beliefs, values, ideals, principles, convictions, rules, codes, regulations and requirements about how we or they (or the world) should / must / ought / have to be that set them up to Associate Abuse with Safety & Security."
If that does seem to be a show that fits, may I suggest looking into each of the following?
Why We Get so Desperate for Connection (in my replies to the OP on that thread)
The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website so that you know exactly where your "buttons" are
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
Learned Helplessness & the Victim Identity (which includes a link to how to get out of it)
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
ACA meetings and ACA's "big red book"
Is the Codependent "Love Addict" just a Commercial & Cultural Creation? (and all the material at the links therein)
Repeating the original trauma in a later intimate relationship is SOP for us... so don't beat yourself up for that. (Our minds were conditioned, instructed, socialized and normalized to Karpman Drama Triangle relationships when we were kids.)
Suggested activities for recovery:
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
ACA meetings and ACA's "big red book"
Understand the Drama Triangle... NOT diagnosing, just saying that many (most?) of us have a few abuse-installed BPD traits -- like "desperate connection needs" (see my reply to the OP on the thread) -- which often becomes obvious reading this article.
"Love" is NOT What We (were taught to) <em>Think</em> it Is
Lover as Drug in the Consensus Trance
"Love is being with what IS in relationship."
Practicing a consciousness raiser / thought questioner / emotion digester like the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to sense what is actually going on and intuitively know what to do about it
Resolving Causes & Effects
Workbooks like those listed in section nine of this earlier post
My parents were relentlessly verbally abusive. And ever ready to take credit for my scholastic, military and professional achievements. Feh.
> She really took away my excitement and pride of my accomplishment.
Did they really take away anything? Or do we let them?
Once our minds are conditioned, instructed, socialized and normalized to such treatment, we know how to do that all by ourselves.
Is there ever any point in seeking approval from such people? Stop and ask yourself, "Has that ever worked?"
I learned to do so in Codependents Anonymous, and it proved to be one of more significant factors in overcoming my own case of Learned Helplessness & the Victim Identity.
May I -- as well -- suggest CoDA's "big blue book," ACA meetings and ACA's "big red book?"
Suggested reading:
Dread: The Essential Emotional Experience of Complex PTSD (which includes an explanation of how some people "escape" the trap)
The Malignant Narcissistic vs. Needy Codependent Polarity
AM on Having a Relationship with a Narcissist
Narcs, Intimidation & What One Can Do
CoDA meetings and CoDA's "big blue book"
Popular alternatives to Co-Dependents Anonymous
Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking
Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
