The point of /r/brexitblunders and /r/brexitbenefits is to provide a list that is as reliable and neutral as possible (if occasionally tongue-in-cheek) without the hyperbolic opinions attached; all comments do is divide and further entrench existing positions, particularly online.
The point is to provide resources that allow somebody to weigh up the pros and cons of either side which relies on as reputable sources as available. You can't talk somebody out of changing a position, you can only plant seeds and let people become exposed to more and more evidence that counters their view, from their own accord. It's literally cult deprogramming 101; there are serious books and they all say the same thing.
We are 100% serious about /r/Brexitbenefits being used for genuinely positive things... but there just aren't any.
Besides, who can be arsed modding comments all day?
The fear for me is riots. I've seen the kick off in the past and its always the little guys that gets affected. We have potentially 2 years until an election. Spend this time promoting the alternatives. Read the anti-brainwashing techniques of authors like Hassan. Ultimately use that knowledge to pull people around.
Atheism doesn't fill voids... It's the lack of belief in God/Gods. You can argue that's a belief, but they don't claim to KNOW that a God doesn't exist. They just don't think there's enough evidence to make the claim that God/Gods exist.
Reading this book helped me: https://www.amazon.com/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0967068827/ref=asc_df_0967068827/
The author talks about his experience leaving a cult:
"After rediscovering myself, I had a whole new string of questions in my mind. How could I have ever believed that a multimillionaire industrialist from Korea was the Messiah? [...] The fantasy I had used to inspire myself day after day and month after month was gone. I felt as though I had awakened from a surreal dream and wasn't sure what was reality - or as if I had stepped off a skyscraper and was headed toward the Earth, but I kept falling and never hit the ground.
[...] I was sad and missed my friends in the group, particularly my 'spiritual children,' the people I recruited. I missed the excitement of feeling that what I was doing was cosmically important. I missed the feeling of power that single-mindedness brought." (Page 72)
The author sort of fills his void with writing and educating people about cults.
After you leave, you might never experience the extreme high that religion gives you, but you adjust to living by appreciating the little achievements you make and the progress you make in your own life. Life's not as intense and thrilling when you don't always have to be on the lookout for evil demons or temptations coming your way, or always making sure every action you do is following some cosmic plan, but life can be more peaceful that way. And the lows you experience after leaving a cult tend to fade and become less and less life altering and extreme.
The above is an example of Thought Stopping as outlined by Steven Hassan, who helps people leave cults. Its used to keep the cult member from critically examining information that would disrupt the cults control over the individual.
Orange Man Bad, TDS, you've seen it before.
Here is his book on the subject, Combating Cult Mind Control
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967068827/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_an8.FbDPZ1J0Q
After reading a lot about this topic and after trying a lot of different approaches by myself, it seems that the following could work at least a bit: 1) Don't ever argue directly against anything what they believe. Debunking only works for people who are still open to it, but it doesn't work at all for people who are already into a cult like this. 2) Try to be empathetic as much as you can. You'll only reach someone who actually likes you. You don't have to agree on anything to do this. 3) Ask questions like: How did you come to belief this? What exactly is going on? Who did you tell this? How sure are you that this is the case? (If 100%: Why? Like 1 plus 1 is 2? ... If less than 100%: What information would make you don't it?) Concentrate on epistemic questions most of the time. This will indirectly force them to use their reason, to think about it more deeply. There will be a point when they start to question a little bit, when their belief system becomes cracks. It might need A LOT of time, but the more they throw their OWN reasoning capacities to it, the more the cult will tumble. down. 4) Be even more nice when you see the first cracks.
There's a whole book on this issue from Steven Hassan, who himself recovered from a cult some time ago. He knows what he is speaking about from the inside.
https://www.amazon.com/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0967068827
Good luck.
Husband, MIL and FIL just started seeing a family counselor because some extended family members are have gone off the deep end.
Therapist recommended this book to them. They have said it has been helpful so far.
My big "wow moment" that started me on this path was when I started reading Combating Cult Mind Control. By the end of the first two chapters my jaw was on the floor. The book so accurately described my experience with the church.
> Besides even if she knew TTATT she'd just have a host of new stresses to deal with, ones I know only too well.
I understand where you are coming from but this is the equivalent of treating your adult wife like a child. She deserves to know the truth. Only when we have the most reliable information are we equipped to make the most informed decisions.
Change your tactics. Try the Socratic method by asking her the type of questions that make her think. I know it's overwhelmingly difficult but you need to resist the urge to just bombard her with facts/information. Her JW indoctrination is a sophisticated piece of software. You have to use finesse here instead of a direct approach.
I recommend you read some of this if you haven't already. I fucked up badly when I woke up and immediately tried to wake up my family. Wish I had read that book first.
The behavior you describe in your father sounds so much like the flipping between your Dad's authentic identity back into his cult/mormon identity.
You may have already heard of this, but Steve Hassan talks about the dual identity concept in this video, and gets into it in great detail in his book Combating Cult Mind Control.
Your Dad's indoctrinated phobias of falling from the church was probably triggered by his brief moment of clarity.
It's frustrating, but seeing your father's real personality come out is a really good sign. If you're inclined, check out Steve's books (Freedom of Mind is another fantastic resource) or his website https://freedomofmind.com/
Best of luck!
I'm not quite certain how the discussion between /u/huntingme and /u/1exmobadass went (one of them may be able to answer); but, for my wife and I, we obtained the CES letter from /u/1exmobadass after a family meeting. My wife and I already has serious doubts (myself having been researching for a while, but only using LDS and FAIR material). The CES letter filled in all the gaps for me, and I was sold. My wife was in the same boat. Since then, we have not been able to get anyone else to read the CES letter in the family, sadly. Though, we have distributed it to those who have asked. We never get an honest response from someone after sending the CES letter. Lately, I have been reading Combating Cult Mind Control which suggests that showing a cult member their doctrine is false, first, is not the best idea. The first approach is to show the cult member they are being controlled. A good way to prove this is the BITE model. I am currently writing a paper on this, proving how TSCC uses BITE.
Has nothing to do with confirmation bias, has to do with research into what makes a cult, well, a cult.
First up, how would you describe a cult?
What are some common tactics cults exhibit? What would you look for in deciding whether or not something was a cult? Are there things that can make a group more or less cultish? Do any of these cult behaviors show up in the JW faith? All of these are researchable and answerable questions.
A pretty fair guideline to follow can be found in the BITE model created by a Cult expert Steven Hassan, or for a more in depth look into cults through his book Combating Cult Mind Control
Researching manipulative human behaviors, logical fallacies, history, etc... can also lead to comparisons to or identification of cult-like behaviors that help in determining whether or not something is a cult.
There is a New version of the book. Please buy the updated version if you can.
$10 for the kindle version.
I think the best bang for your buck would be to simply start confronting your aunt with information from JWFacts about all the seedy stuff the JWs do: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/watchtower-scandal.php
If she is like most JWs, as soon as you start mentioning unflattering info about the JWs she will freak out and start screeching about how you are an apostate. If you persist in criticizing the JWs she probably will decide you are under Satan's influence and shun you.
I think this is much more productive than going through the motions of pretending to believe the JW bullshit at all, and it has the potential benefit that it MIGHT get your aunt to think about how stupid it is that she is worshipping a publishing company at the expense of her own daughter. (Don't count on it though - the brainwashing is strong).
Meanwhile, I think rather than spending time trying to fake that you believe the JW bullshit, spend that time hanging out with your cousin. She needs your love and support and having you in her life will help her so much.
Alternatively, you may want to check out Steve Hassan's book about how to deal with someone in a cult if you actually want to try to deprogram them from the brainwashing:
http://www.amazon.com/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0967068827/
TheraminTrees has a lot of videos about cults and the psychology involved in abuse. (Cults are essentially abusive relationships.)
The book Combating Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan can also give you insights.
Diluting the word cult is problematic, but....
>I didn't leave a church, I left a cult. If you didn't leave a cult, than you have no business saying that you did. Let us have a word of our own to describe the horrible experience we went through.
Is asking for hugs when you're poking people with a pointy stick.
Before asking for validation, lets first create a more affirming atmosphere for everyone.
I absolutely agree with you that diluting the word "cult" is unwise. Unfortunately, we do not have a monopoly on the English language. Just ask Google how they feel about people googling things with other search engines.
Claiming special privilege of knowing "the true meaning of ____" is itself cultspeak. Constructive conversation doesn't usually come from such aggressive attitudes.
I'm more of a descriptivist rather than prescriptivist. Rather than attempting to force everyone to be more disciplined in their usage of the word cult, it may be more therapeutic to deemphasize the the importance of the true meaning of the word cult and focus more on what makes a cult a cult. Talk more about the specific harmful practices organizations have that make them truly egregious.
I grew up Mormon (mainstream-Brighamite Salt Lake City variety) and you can argue that, on the surface, it appears to be just a church. But it really is a spectrum where some congregations under some leadership might not be very harmful, while corners of the religious get very very culty. While I don't think I personally experienced a lot of harm compared to what many others did, even in Mormonism, I do think I grew up in a cult, especially having experienced going on a church mission and going to a church school.
I find a lot of value in the work of Steven Hassan who did a interview on Mormon Stories where they discuss the B.I.T.E. model and if Mormonism is a cult. I can relate a lot to his described experiences in his book Combatting Cult Mind Control.
One thing I was raised to believe is I have a divine responsibility for the actions and well-being of those around me and I will be judged by God on how I interact with others, including, naturally, trying to get other people to join my religion. In real life, you, especially having experienced a lot of trauma yourself, do not have any moral obligation to go on a crusade vanquishing cults from the world. All you have to do is find a way to be healthy for yourself. If you want to help others, that's great, but it isn't necessary for you to be a good person.
That having been said, I think the most helpful we can be for each other is listing to each other's lived experiences and validating each others feelings. Learning about other's experiences and trauma itself can help heal from the trauma we've experienced.
I hope you can find validation and heal from the pain and trauma you've experienced. Nobody should have to experience what you have gone through and I hope that you can heal as time goes on.
Out of all the religions of the whole world, Mormonism is the only one that...
...the only one that I was born into.
After that all the reasons are simply confirmation bias. Example: The 17 points of the true church is just a list of things that the church teachings phrased as some kind of authoritative list that other churches have but secretly hide because they don't measure up.
And I can hear you say, aha, but are there not converts to Mormonism...yes, and I think Steven Hassan [Combating Cult Mind Control] https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967068827/) did a better job chronicalling the process by which people are drawn into high demand religions. (And there is nothing unique about how it happens)
Take the help, the years of manipulation have taken their toll on your mind and soul. Things will get better. This book helped me spot all the “double-binds” that friends, family and the church had used for years.
https://www.exmormon.org/pattern/index.htm
This was invaluable: “Controlling People” by Patricia Evans: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/158062569X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1633470055&sr=8-1
Also YouTube videos by Steven Hassan and his book: Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967068827/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_a_083YDZV97H3PC9V5GPNZ are awesome!
Esse seu medo irracional de muçulmanos faz parte do projeto de dominação que o culto exerce sobre você. Sinto muito pelos seus parentes, é realmente triste quando alguém perde a capacidade de pensamento autônomo ao entrar em um culto. Meus sentimentos aos seus amigos e familiares que te perderam, deixo aqui uma referência para que algum conhecido seu possa tentar te resgatar
https://www.amazon.com.br/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-Selling/dp/0967068827
Definitely hypnotic brainwashing techniques, which cult deprogrammer Steven Hassan has indeed made a study of . See my reply above, to Junior-Fox-760.
From his website:
Steven Hassan, PhD, M.A., M.Ed. LMHC, NCC has helped thousands of individuals and families recover from undue influence (mind control). With over 40 years of experience, he is sought after as one of the foremost authorities on undue influence and controlling groups and individuals. Steve understands the subject from a unique perspective as both a former Moonie cult member and as a clinical professional.
Steven Hassan has published 4 books about cults. His first book, which came out in 1988 under the title Combatting Cult Mind Control, was updated and re-released in 2015 as <em>Combating Cult Mind Control</em>. Chapter 2, My life in the Unification Church has been placed for free on this web site. This book is available as an audiobook as well as on kindle.
Steven is the Founding Director of the Freedom of Mind Resource Center, a coaching, consulting, and training organization dedicated to supporting individuals to have the freedom to think clearly and to freely consider how they want to live their lives. Steven pioneered a breakthrough method called the Strategic Interactive Approach (SIA), an effective and legal alternative for families to help cult members. The SIA teaches family and friends how to strategically influence the individual involved in the cult.
I highly recommend you get the book Combating Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan and read it. I also highly recommend you watch TheraminTrees on Youtube.
I bought this the other day:
Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967068827/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GluIDbMCVH2N1
Steve has now kind of said that mainstream Mormonism is a cult, or at least implements some of the BITE Model behaviors. He actually spoke at the Exmormon Foundation Conference in 2008, and included an exmo in his 2015 update to Combating Mind Control (his original 1988 and, I think, the 1990 paperback versions did not include any references to Mormonism).
Still, compared to Scientology, or JW's, he doesn't talk about Mormonism very much, which I actually also like - it will be easier to share his work with my loved ones when the time is right.
I suggest that Steve Hassan's Combating Cult Mind Control be a part of all YTTs. It is an invaluable book that reveals the dangers of gurus and their countermeasures. http://www.amazon.com/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0967068827/