{"product":{"product_id":"0465093507","title":"Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World","price":"21.99","image_url":"https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41mf11rmz7L._SL500_.jpg","url":"https://www.amazon.com/dp/0465093507"},"comments":[{"body":"\u0026gt; The various atrocities of the 19th and 20th century that were committed by Westerners and the guilt they have instilled seem to be the main driver to me, combined with the cultural influences of Christianity (I think the social justice movement is just the post-religion version of Christianity), which is a religion and philosophical system that preaches conciliation, peace and repentance.\r\n\r\nThis thesis, that Christianity is basically the air that everything in the modern West breathes, is the basis for [*Dominion*, by Tom Holland](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507/ref=sr_1_1?crid=Q8ROVXB4BK01\u0026amp;keywords=dominion+tom+holland\u0026amp;qid=1576542476\u0026amp;s=books\u0026amp;sprefix=dominion+tom%2Caps%2C197\u0026amp;sr=1-1). Highly recommended.","subreddit_name":"TheMotte","author":"randomuuid"},{"body":"Matt 7.12 and Luke 6.31. Both have it. Confucious has the silver, not the golden rule. Big difference. Those who claim it predates Jesus ubiquitously need to cite some sources. Also, it would be helpful to read Atheist Tom Holland’s book “Dominion[Dominion ](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507)” on the seismic effect of Xianity on classical morality","subreddit_name":"DebateReligion","author":"TheDividebyiPUBmod"},{"body":"Check out agnostic history writer Tom Holland's [Dominion](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507), Christianity transformed ancient pagan society in many important ways. The West did not always have the moral values and theological assumptions it has today. To take one example, the poor were by and large ignored in Greco-Roman pagan antiquity. Charity was not common and \"obvious\" in the West prior to the arrival of Christianity.","subreddit_name":"WesternCivilisation","author":"seekingtruth24"},{"body":"I don't understand the distinction you're marking between 'morals' and 'understanding'. Are you going to say that all the civil rights activists China has imprisoned (even executed/\u0026amp;#8203;disappeared) is purely a difference in 'understanding'? How about the morality in Russia which permits the invasion of Ukraine, vs. the morality of the Ukrainians? Is that purely a difference in 'understanding'? Or how about:\r\n\r\n\u0026gt; The more years I spent immersed in the study of classical antiquity, so the more alien I increasingly found it. The values of Leonidas, whose people had practised a peculiarly murderous form of eugenics and trained their young to kill uppity _Untermenschen_ by night, were nothing that I recognised as my own; nor were those of Caesar, who was reported to have killed a million Gauls, and enslaved a million more. It was not just the extremes of callousness that unsettled me, but the complete lack of any sense that the poor or the weak might have the slightest intrinsic value. ([Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507), 16)\r\n\r\nIs that purely a difference in 'understanding'?","subreddit_name":"DebateAnAtheist","author":"labreuer"},{"body":"Wow this is like the most cynical and lazy view I’ve ever heard. \r\n\r\n The ideas in the New Testament had such an impact on the earth it’s mind-boggling. They caused the fall of the Roman Empire (w/out violence). They pioneered the concept of human rights. They radically changed our understanding of moral values, love, justice, forgiveness, gratitude. [None of this is disputed](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507/ref=nodl_) even if you aren’t a Christian. \r\n\r\nMaybe your theory should address some of this stuff.","subreddit_name":"DebateReligion","author":"Virgil-Galactic"},{"body":"\u0026gt;There probably isn’t a time that provided more to mathematic, philosophical, or artistic contributions than the ancient Greeks.\r\n\r\nI would tend to agree (for all practical purposes). A monumental, foundational period in the history of civilization.\r\n\r\nNow let's just say for arguments sake that the influence of Christianity on Western culture has been roughly equal to that in magnitude ([I think the case can be made](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507)). \r\n\r\nYet this Christian influence came from a single man. A no-name carpenter in a no-name town in Palestine, who only spoke publicly in the last 3 years of his life. \r\n\r\nAnd so if you don't think that Jesus is who he said he was, then you are in the unfortunate position of wrestling with how this carpenter and his fishermen friends were able to have this type of impact on planet earth. It's not like saying \"probably didn't happen\" gets you out of the quandary.","subreddit_name":"DebateReligion","author":"Virgil-Galactic"},{"body":"This is really good. I am reading [Dominion](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507) at the moment and am up to the 14th century. the church really lost the plot in those centuries, with the inquisition, fear and paranoia about heracies, and the terriible behaviour of the popes.","subreddit_name":"Christianity","author":"no1name"},{"body":"I just finished reading [Tom Holland's *Dominion*](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507).  I never even considered the possibility that a book about the history of Christian influence on Western culture would give me an earworm, but here we are.  I read the following passage late one night and actually had trouble getting to sleep because the song kept playing in my head:\r\n\r\n\u0026gt;True wisdom was the knowledge of God that all mortals could have, if only they were prepared to open themselves to the Spirit: for God, Winstanley proclaimed, was Reason. It was Reason that would lead humanity to foreswear the very concept of possessions; to join in building a heaven on earth. His foes might dismiss Winstanley as a dreamer; but he was not the only one. The occupation of St George’s Hill was a declaration of hope: that others some day would join the Diggers, and the world would be as one.","subreddit_name":"badhistory","author":"Chocolate_Cookie"},{"body":"As i said, it has been corrupted, like everything else, science, whatever. But in essence it's been very beneficial. I dont think you have an open mind to understand but for anyone else reading theres a great book on the subject called [dominion](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507)that explains just how big and beneficial christianity's influence has been on the world","subreddit_name":"Damnthatsinteresting","author":"kavinski116"},{"body":"Oh yeah, he wrote a book that definitely needed to be written. As in, super important book. Another book also came out recently showing how Christianity changed the world in terms of ethics and values -- Tom Holland's [Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507) (and what's amazing is that Tom Holland isn't even Christian, he's an agnostic historian).","subreddit_name":"Catholicism","author":"seekingtruth24"},{"body":"RE: Secular Christianity\r\n\r\nI’d recommend Dominion by Tom Holland. It’s gotten some good reviews by historians, and it’s subject is how much of modern secular values and models of reality come from Christian thought and tradition.\r\n\r\nhttps://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507","subreddit_name":"TheMotte","author":"FlyingLionWithABook"},{"body":"\u0026gt;Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of the human race.\r\n\r\nA useful semi-secular resource here would be [Tom Holland's Dominion](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507), a quite-good history covering the idea that virtually all of Western Liberal Thought is rooted in Christianity.\r\n\r\nI say *semi*\\-secular because Holland was atheist when he began writing, but was raised in the church and I recall reading he began attending again at some point during the process.","subreddit_name":"TheMotte","author":"professorgerm"},{"body":"Just a nitpick here\r\n\r\n\u0026gt; that obviously wouldn't affect the RCC's billion dollar budget.\r\n\r\nThis really isn't the right way to judge the Catholic Church's finances or any organization's finances.  The RCC may bring in billions of dollars but that doesn't mean it has billions of dollars of **liquidity**.  You have to judge it by income vs expenses, which would likely show a much a much lower number.\r\n\r\nRemember, the RCC is not first and foremost a charitable organization, so it **cannot** simply spend all its money on charity.  It exists first and foremost to glorify God and Christ.  It's charity is just an extension of that mission.  If that mission did not exist, the charity would not exist.\r\n\r\nAnd, going off on a bit of a tangent here, the slack might not be picked up by any other organization, it's quite possible that without the Church, the charity provided by Christianity would **literally not exist**.  Just look at this book, [by an atheist author no less, on how Christian ideals reshaped society](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507).  Who put those ideals there?  Oh, right....\r\n\r\nBut, going back to the original point, the RCC might not have billions of dollars to dump into one spot on the planet available at any given time.","subreddit_name":"Documentaries","author":"Happy_Pizza_"},{"body":"\"All modern Christianity is fake Christianity\" your use of \"all\" is a logical fallacy. Having spent the last half century as a christian, I have found that pantheistic, deistic and agnostic beliefs CANNOT account for the universe nor for humanity. I highly recommend the atheist Tom Holland's excellent book [https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507) Blessings in Christ (Messiah) Jesus.","subreddit_name":"u_barryleeickes","author":"barryleeickes"},{"body":"\u0026gt; We'd be able to quickly agree on a very baseline moral code- helping people is good, hurting people is bad, that sort of thing. That kind of very basic morality is universal (indeed, its _instinctual_- this is basically what guilt tracks to).\r\n\r\nDo the following examples fit your generalization:\r\n\r\n\u0026gt; The more years I spent immersed in the study of classical antiquity, so the more alien I increasingly found it. The values of Leonidas, whose people had practised a peculiarly murderous form of eugenics and trained their young to kill uppity _Untermenschen_ by night, were nothing that I recognised as my own; nor were those of Caesar, who was reported to have killed a million Gauls, and enslaved a million more. It was not just the extremes of callousness that unsettled me, but the complete lack of any sense that the poor or the weak might have the slightest intrinsic value. ([Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World](https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507), 16)\r\n\r\n+\r\n\r\n\u0026gt; \u0026amp;nbsp;\u0026amp;nbsp;\u0026amp;nbsp;\u0026amp;nbsp;By identifying rationality with social superiority – by taking for granted the deference of inferiors, of a domestic sphere – the ancient world had less need for a doctrine of the will. It had less need to posit a separate event or faculty preceding action in every person. The notion of human agency was shaped by the structure of society. Some were simply born to command and others to obey. Hence there was no ontological gap between thought and action. The status of the person who reasoned guaranteed the availability of action if required. ([Inventing the Individual](https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674979888), 35–36)\r\n\r\n?","subreddit_name":"DebateReligion","author":"labreuer"}]}