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Doubt: A History: The Great Doubters and Their Legacy of Innovation from Socrates and Jesus to Thomas Jefferson and Emily Dickinson?
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" Of course, while the rising rates of professed secularity in the Arab-Muslim world are new, the roots of such secularism run deep. Very deep. Many centuries deep. Despite the fact that many people erroneously associate Islam with nothing but religious fundamentalism, the historical fact is that skepticism, rationalism, and humanism have been long-entrenched within Arabic-Muslim history. "
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If there was no punishment for apostasy, secularism would have taken over the Arab world by now.
4 and 16 sound like pretty sceptical authors, which might come as a surprise to those who don't know that the Arab world has (had?) a sceptical/freethinking tradition. I read about it in the fine book Doubt by Jennifer Michael Hecht.
This would be my recommendation: Doubt: A History: The Great Doubters and Their Legacy of Innovation from Socrates and Jesus to Thomas Jefferson and Emily Dickinson
I think you'd like reading Doubt: A History, by Jennifer Michael Hecht. It belongs on every bookshelf in every home.
The Qur'an is clearer on that subject.
As an interesting aside, if you read the book Doubt: A History, the author points out that belief was not such a big deal in Judaism. Obedience is more important. Judaism, alone among the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sects, predates formal atheism. So, the concept of non-belief may not have truly been considered, as it was for Christianity. This may be why belief was more assumed than demanded in Judaism but is so central to Christianity.
I posted a link to this book earlier today, but I'll recommend it here, too:Doubt: A history
It's a great intellectual history and if one of your concerns as you move away from the familiarity of faith is that you are alone, this book should assuage that. It's a truly vibrant and storied intellectual tradition. (And this is an inspiring book)
Best I can personally recommend is Doubt: A History by Jennifer Hecht, which chronicles the history of atheism and skepticism up to the publication of the book.
Looks to me like readers would probably be better served by Jennifer Hecht's book, Doubt: A History.
Based on the book Doubt: A History, there is an interesting point made about the time frame in which Judaism was created versus the time frame of Christianity. Judaism is assumed to predate formal atheism and atheists such as Epicurus and Siddhartha Gautama.
At the time the Jewish religion amalgamated from earlier religions, faith was basically assumed. It was expected that everyone believed in deities. Atheism was a non-issue. So, the Jewish religion didn't make a big deal about faith itself. It gets mentioned here and there, but is not the crux (so to speak) of the religion. The Jewish religion is more about obedience than belief. It's about following the law of the Torah.
At least that's the point from this author. I'm sure there are conflicting opinions.
Going with this further, Christianity formed in the presence of formal atheism and gentle life philosophies. Therefore, Christianity made a much bigger deal about faith itself.
Regarding the Jewish vision of the afterlife, it's far more vague than Christianity. There's the old psalm (23?) "Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death blah blah blah banquet for me in the presence of my enemies (schadenfreude!) blah blah." But, I'm not sure just how much specific talk there is in the Torah or the Talmud about exactly what is expected in the afterlife. Certainly, there is no hell in the Jewish religion.
The closest thing the Jewish religion really has to an obvious judgment day is every year on New Years and the Day of Atonement (Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, respectively). On Rosh Hashana it is written; on Yom Kippur it is sealed. Who shall live and who shall die. Who by fire. Who by water. Who by getting hit by a bus. (That last may not really be in there.)
But, note that it's who shall live or die in the coming year. There's no mention there of an afterlife or a heaven or a hell. When Yahweh's pissed, Yahweh smite! Here. Now. None of this infinite grudge shit. Lot's wife looked back to see the city of her birth and life one more time? Pillar of salt! Boom. Done. No mention of eternal torment.
The remembrance prayer for the dead probably has among the strongest mentions of an afterlife in the Jewish religion. It has the following text included within it.
> may his soul be bound up in the bond of life with the souls of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah, and with the other righteous men and women who are in Gan Eden
Um ... Yeah. Whatever that means.
So, that's about it to my non-religious understanding.
TL;DR: Faith in Judaism is assumed rather than demanded. Obedience to the law is the real focus. The concept of an afterlife is vague but not nonexistent. There is no hell.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13602000701737079
Defenders of Reason in Islam: Mu'tazililism from Medieval School to Modern Symbol
The Closing of the Muslim Mind: How Intellectual Suicide Created the Modern Islamist Crisis
Islam's Predicament with Modernity: Religious Reform and Cultural Change
Islam without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty
Islam and Democracy: Fear of the Modern World
ps. I don't mind lending you at least some of the books above (via Amazon Kindle) if you're truly interested in learning about this period.
It's been a long time since I read Doubt: A History, but I seem to remember it being what you're looking for.
http://www.amazon.com/Doubt-Doubters-Innovation-Jefferson-Dickinson/dp/0060097957
Doubt: A History: The Great Doubters and Their Legacy of Innovation from Socrates and Jesus to Thomas Jefferson and Emily Dickinson https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060097957/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_7HJevb1Q8JJFF
> I already gave you the answer: Separation of the sexes.
For what reason? What is the basis for this separation?
> It also eventually led to the destruction of the temples.
Exactly who do you think was in the temple when the Maccabees came back to Jerusalem after a couple of centuries and found it not destroyed but dedicated to Zeus? Who was in it? Who was in control of it?
Answer: The secular Jews that had assimilated into Greek culture and enjoyed talking about philosophy with them. Chanukah was a kinslaying. As a secular Jew, I can say it was people like me who were killed and forcibly circumcised by the Maccabees. It was women like my wife who were forcibly subjugated or killed to become the second class citizens that women are in the Jewish religion.
Source: Doubt: A History
> The arrogance from religion is abundantly apparent from this statement. > > I just knew you would love it! :)
But, do you see it?
> If you were honest, you would know that the vast majority of the time in your life, you are living as an atheist yourself. > > I love this idea. I don't agree with it, but it's an awesome idea.
Thanks. That's the first I thought of it. I'm glad you like it.
> If God for even a moment stopped creating the world it would simply not exist. The action of every single atom and electron, is individually controlled by God.
And you know this based on what?
> To put it in human terms, imagine a story in your mind, your characters do this and that - and now stop thinking about the story. Were the characters destroyed? No. They just don't exist anymore. That's how this world it to God, it's a continuous thought.
10^80 atoms in the observable universe. 10^84 quarks. Each in individual control of your god. Each random pop into and out of existence of all of the virtual particles dictated by your god.
10^11 galaxies. 10^21 stars. 10^22 planets. All to put puny humans here. (Why humans? Why not pay attention to dolphins?) And, even with that, he can only seem to worry about the middle east, not even the whole world.
Everything in the Old Testament, everything in the New Testament, everything in the Qur'an, all of it, only seems to happen in the middle east. God pays no attention to China, the Americas, most of Africa, all of Europe, Russia, Australasia, Antarctica, all of the rest of the world, completely ignored, unless you add in the Book of Mormon.
God cares nothing for most of this world.
God created this enormous and hostile to life universe, all to put humans on earth for the briefest of instants. What a waste.
> You expect science to reign supreme, not God. > > That's not what science is. You are talking like science is a god to worship.
No. I'm speaking as if science works. Our empirical knowledge of the universe is incredible. God of the gaps shrinks everyday and is now down to the first 10^-43 of a second of the universe and the jump from preexisting amino acids already found in comets to the simplest replicator. Not much room left for any gods. And, we know that our scientific theories work. There are no exceptions for when god(s) intervene or when your god in particular forgets to create a few odd sized virtual particles that only last for tiny fractions of a second but are making your computer work right now.
> As an aside, how do you think the universe came to be? Or do you just say "I don't know" and not worry about it?
Are you willing to listen to our best available answer for a bit over an hour?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EilZ4VY5Vs
> Am I doing my job of keeping you honest now? > > No. Ridiculing silly things like not sitting near a woman on a ~~bus~~ [plane] is (I saw your blog), but not what you wrote in this message.
Guess you didn't like it. I'd be glad to discuss the specifics there. Most of the things, like letting mohels infect infants with deadly herpes, are rather off-topic here.
Ridiculing assholes for holding a plane at the gate for 11 hours and saying that these medieval idiots are not behaving like mensches in modern society is necessary. Their behavior is unacceptable and illegal. That sort of behavior is unacceptable. If you get on a plane, follow FAA rules. If you can't sit next to a member of the opposite sex, buy up the whole row of seats. Don't make it my problem.
Freedom of religion? Sure.
Special privileges for being complete and utter assholes. No. That's not OK. If some 19th century moron can't sit next to a woman on an airplane, he should make arrangements before hand. He can't expect normal thinking people to give up sitting next to their spice (a better plural of spouse) for a long flight just to make life easy for people who refuse to enter the modern world but still want the privileges of living in it.
These wackos make me embarrassed to be Jew, just as I would be embarrassed if I were Christian and saw the Westboro Batshit Crazies.
I feel like sometimes this subreddit tries too hard to conform the beliefs of particularly interesting or significant historical/literary figures to what we would term today "atheism". There's a really great book called Doubt, which focuses on the "doubt" many figures faced when confronting religion in their social context but how, while struggling, criticizing, and mocking the rigid structures of religion at the time, they attempted to reconcile their belief (with varying degrees of success) with were to some degree still theists or agnostic theists (I am the latter). I must admit, I don't know about Lovecraft specifically though, I just thought this would be an interesting thread to make this post. If you guys think I should make a much larger post devoted to this separately please let me know.
Anyway, the book is really interesting and I highly recommend it. I've seen a few threads giving flak to "moderates" or people who just generally classify themselves as "theists", thinking this is some new innovation when faced with the prodigious amount of scientific evidence these days, but honestly doubt is a really rich tradition that has been around since pre-Socrates. I've posted a snippet below from a review: >Though she explores the skepticism of early Greek thinkers challenging pagan gods, the tantric doubts of Tibetan monks chanting their way to enlightenment, and the poetic unbelief of heretical Muslim poets, Hecht gives center stage to Christianity, the religion that made doubt newly visible--and subversive--by identifying faith (not law, morality, or ritual) as the very key to salvation. Readers witness the martyrdom of iconoclastic doubters such as Bruno, Dolet, and Vanini, but Hecht also illuminates the wrenching episodes of doubt in the lives of passionate believers, including Paul and Augustine. In Jesus' anguished utterances in Gethsemane and at Calvary, Hecht hears even Christ experiencing the agony of doubt. Indeed, Hecht's affinity for the doubters who have advanced secular democracy and modern art does not blind her to the hidden kinship between profound doubters and seminal believers: both have confronted the perplexing gap between human aspirations and their tragic contradictions. In her provocative conclusion, Hecht ponders the novelty of a global confrontation pitting America not against the state-sanctioned doubt of Soviet atheism but, rather, against a religious fundamentalism hostile to all doubt.>
This wasn't a "religion isn't bad at all guys, look" post, I just think we don't speak of doubt that often.
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