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Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance?
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Tracked down the book, FYI it's Grit, by Angela Duckworth. Here's the direct quote.
> In a meeting with Bill and Melinda Gates, I had an opportunity to explain my perspective in person. Learning to follow through on something hard in high school, I said, seemed the best-possible preparation for doing the same thing later in life.
> In that conversation, I learned that Bill himself has long appreciated the importance of competencies other than talent. Back in the days when he had a more direct role in hiring software programmers at Microsoft, for instance, he said he’d give applicants a programming task he knew would require hours and hours of tedious troubleshooting. This wasn’t an IQ test, or a test of programming skills. Rather, it was a test of a person’s ability to muscle through, press on, get to the finish line. Bill only hired programmers who finished what they began.
Whatever you decide to do; do it with integrity. For that you need to cultivate GRIT.
Read the book by Angela Duckworth to get ideas on how to do it.
Talent is cheap; GRIT is hard. I wish I had learned this when I was 20. The saddest fact of my life is that I peaked at 20. I am trying to put it back together in my 50's; but the regret for not having this facility is constant.
ETA: Value experiential stuff over material things.
I really liked "Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance." by Angela Duckworth. It really helped me with figuring out why I was failing at hobbies I thought I'd enjoy, and getting back into hobbies I did enjoy. It also didn't feel like a stereotypical self help book of "get healed quick!!". It's more of the story behind a psychologist's research behind who is successful and who isn't.
It made me realize that yea, I can do all the things I've thought of, but I need to figure out where my passion and grit are for them first. Or find what I have a passion for, but that's a bit harder with ADHD and wanting to do everything!
https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108
I think the 'ability to cope' deficiency has been a growing issue for years, but probably got a bit of a nudge because of COVID. Honestly, a small part of me thinks that, given all of the incredible efforts that educators in Ontario went through to provide safety nets and soft landings for students regardless of what they did, it's shocking that students felt LESS capable of coping - unless it's because they didn't HAVE to learn how to do it, because everyone else was coping for them.
Everyone should read Grit by Angela Duckworth. It says a lot about the subject. https://www.amazon.ca/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108
> Initially I was inconsistent and couldn't complete a full week. I'm glad persistence is paying off well. Have been consistent for more than a week.
You'd enjoy the book <em>Grit</em>.
> I would really like to know an aggressive, full-proof plan to break these shitty habits...
There is one, and there isn't. As long as you're looking at these habits as something that something outside of you, an "aggressive plan" is the solution, nothing is going to change.
The moment you recognize that you and only you are responsible/accountable for these ~~behaviors~~ choices, then you can start catching yourself and avoiding those choices, stopping them.
Read this book https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108. it will help you realize that you and only you are in charge to make better choices.
> I've made so many empty promises....
Stop making promises and talking about what you're going to do, and - instead - do the things that you want to do. Climb a mountain, tell nobody.
Good luck.
Currently reading "Grit" by Angela Duckworth and there's a passage there that goes:
"I lay down two simple equations that explain how you get from talent to achievement. Here they are:
talent x effort = skill -----> skill x effort = achievement."
IQ would be talent in our case here. Your innate abilities.
A simplified argument would be something like:
Talent is only your starting point, you have to combine your talents with effort to master something. And through effortful application of your mastery you can gain achievement.
I agree with your mindset but I guess it all comes down to self-awareness. Everything is relative really. In my shoes though, I believe one needs passion + perseverance in order to succeed. (Also, I'm not sure if you have had any programming experience but assuming you haven't sat down for at least 10 hours and practiced, you'll find out why you need a bit of passion if you try, lol :P) Check out the book Grit for more info on this subject - https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108
Been looking into this kind of thing lately myself and talking to a few people about a bunch of stuff and one of the things they're talking about that really stuck out to me was the impact that "grit" had on success. Call it whatever you want; perseverence, resilience, grit, or whatever. Lots of scientific studies going on about it.
You need to combine that with taking good care of yourself though. Sleep well, drink lots of water, eat well, exercise, lift some weights. That helps give you the energy and stamina to keep going.
TL;DR: read this: https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108
Long version: I was a high school teacher living in semi-rural suburbs and had no friends, horrible depression, PTSD, etc. Wanted to live in the city (NYC, preferably) and climb the career ladder, but there was no way out without a masters degree and better mental health.
I was inpatient psych for a suicide attempt in 2011, so let's say that was rock bottom. Somehow for reasons I really couldn't explain for a long time, I just felt like I couldn't stop trying to get better. I tried 17 psych meds over two years. None worked. So I tried like, half a dozen forms of therapy (CBT, DBT, ACT and on and on) and kept switching therapists until I found one that really, really helped.
Then, after I was relatively stable I started a masters program. It took me three years to finish it. Got the degree when I was 34. I still didn't have the professional experience I needed, so I got creative with what I saw going on at work and was assertive about suggesting to admin that I could do a lot of good in professional development while continuing to teach. I was willing to work 12-hour days and over the whole weekend or do whatever I could with consulting or side jobs to build my resume.
When my depression came back at the same age--34--I just started running. I did C25K and struggled through it but eventually "graduated" and then just stuck with it permanently, as I found the effect it had on me was basically EXACTLY what I had been trying to achieve with psych meds years ago.
At 35, made it basically a full-time job to apply to jobs in/near NYC even if they weren't relevant to my career or I wasn't qualified at all for them. I mean I sent out like, 25+ resumes/applications per week. I applied to EVERYTHING.
Landed a job in higher ed that I totally was not a good fit for but was relevant enough to use for resume-building and moving along downstream. Stayed 2 years through a shitty boss, took on a ton more consulting work and kept applying for dozens of jobs a week--still including those I wasn't qualified for but looked interesting.
At some point, I must have used LinkedIn to auto-apply for some high-level higher ed admin job that required a doctorate (which I don't have) in Manhattan and they actually called me for a phone interview. Came in for personal interview. Got job. Negotiated 10K more salary than they initially offered. It's been 18ish months and they recently promoted me to the executive level.
Now I'm 39, working at the executive level basically right where I wanted to be career-wise, I make about the money I wanted to make at this point, and I live in an amazing fucking place and have made a billion friends, joined a running club and now routinely run half-marathons, am training for a marathon, have been doing strength training for a full year and basically look and feel better than ever in my life.
Things that helped that I could explain were:
- I had a dog through most of this (she passed away a few months ago) and I COULD NOT just lie around and let my depression consume me
- I did not date anyone--ANYONE--from ages 28 through 37 and instead insisted on living alone, getting used to and eventually really liking my own company and learning how to survive alone emotionally, physically, financially
- I always, always had concrete short and long-term goals; even now, I can tell you where I want to be in five years, ten years, etc. I do my absolute best to set reasonable goals but push myself to achieve them
- This has to be said: I was privileged enough to have great health insurance and the resources I needed to take out student loans, carry credit card debt, live alone, etc.; I want to recognize that that is not the case for everyone and that I'm sure that aided in my success
Then I read that Duckworth book a few years ago and I was like HOLY SHIT okay. I scored 100% on the grit scale she's got in there. But the best part about that book is that she explains that grit--dutifully sticking with your goals even if it takes six fucking years to recover from depression, get your masters and GTFO, for example--is not something you are born with or not. You can learn it. You can develop it. And she even includes a tutorial, basically.
Good luck, and get away from that job. They don't appreciate you or see any potential in you, and you need to go where you are celebrated and valued. You can do it!!
Jesus I've hit the max word count for a comment for the first time ever. Here's the end which was too much...
So. I'll leave this as this:
- Read Peak.
- Read the Cambridge Manual if you want to grow hair on your chest.
- Read Grit by Angela Duckworth because for fucks sake we didn't even get to "how the hell do you show up every day" Mayo Oshin?!?!?! Well, Duckworth is another leading expert in the field of positive psychology who answers this prickly question: if deliberate practice is brutal, what makes some people capable of doing it for decades? Seriously. Read this book.
- Read The Inner Game of Tennis because Mr. Oshin also doesn't really tell us how to "not be too hard on ourselves"... well this book laid the foundation for sports psychology. So yeah. Actual knowledge here. I reread the section on "dont' be hard on yourself"... and Jesus it's like light mayonnaise.
- Then read Mr. Oshin's article again and apply his obviously true ideas now that you have the tools to implement them.
ps. Don't hate me.
I appreciate the well-researched and thoughtful answer! I agree that I don't have a convincing definition of "moderate" stress. I'm kind of torn on how to strike the
right balance myself - consulting really wore me out after a few years, and I'm grateful that I looked more seriously at managing stress in my own life (including hours worked) before it got worse. But on the other hand, you see pieces of work like Angela Duckworth's Grit (https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108) which also align with some of my lived experiences and how much I gained from the "grind" of certain things i've done like competitive sports, etc. So I feel like I'm always flopping back and forth between feeling like I should actively invest in taking downtime vs. pushing myself.
I think your last paragraph / article is definitely an area where companies can do better. I've always hated how companies are eager to stack offices with a bunch of super unhealthy snacks, but got forbid they give employees a gym subsidy or protect time for them to be active.
> could the mind set of not quitting until you get what you want be taken as an example of virtue?
Any statement formulated as an absolute is invalid, therefore cannot be virtuous.
> Let's say staying in abusive relationship and trying to workout your issues?
IF abusive, THEN leave. Being a victim is not victuous.
> Could pursuit of virtue take the happiness away actually?
Invalid question, since Stoicism doesn't believe in happiness, but in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia .
You might be interested in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108
May the Gods be with You.
>Intelligence is hard to define, it doesn't mean we can't formulate ways of measuring it.
Certain types of intelligence are easier to measure because they're better defined. As a counter-example to your point, measuring creativity or emotional intelligence quantitatively is difficult---and in a standardized way, probably impossible (with what we know today). And in a world where computers/artificial intelligence is prominent, creativity and teamwork/leadership ability will be more important than solving an integral or summarizing a poem.
Not to mention, the personality trait that best predicts success is Grit. And grit is independent of one's "intelligence".
​
>So yeah, you want higher standards of test scoring because you want to filter out the vast majority of human beings so that you only find the hidden gems even despite their challenges at home and despite their poor-quality parenting.
I understand your logic; we want to find the hidden gems---the ones with most grit (which is what you're describing). And I would agree if the method of filtering actually found the hidden gems, but standardized testing does not...
There are plenty of people with low socioeconomic status that are hard working and highly grity; however, standardized testing will knock them out of running in some of the top schools not because they aren't "intelligent", but because they don't have the resources or time after working three jobs plus school to take an SAT tutoring class. Or they might not do well simply because they didn't know what these tests involve and how important they are. Many people cannot control their environment/life circumstances, but would be incredibly successful if given the opportunity. How do we find these people and give them the opportunity? ---I don't know, but I do know more testing will not help.
​
>That will just ruin the university reputations as companies will realize that standards are gone they will refuse to hire people from those universities.
You can have high standards without standardized testing.
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>He'd benefit much greater among peers in a community college or lesser university that has lower standard test scores.
I agree that some people may be more successful in a less competitive environment. Even some people that actually get in to Harvard with high test scores may benefit from being "a big fish in a small pond," so to speak, by attending a lower-tier school. However, this is another issue independent of the standardized testing issue.
​
>People want to BE WITH the people who are like themselves, they don't like to be with someone who surpasses their intellect by 10x.
Have you heard of "broadening one's horizons"? Being surrounded by like-minded people is the opposite goal of a university. "University" comes from the latin word "universitas" which means "the whole"; an ideal university is a single place where "the whole" of human intellect can be found--- not one part of it. If you didn't have diversity in thinking and backgrounds, you would never find engaging discussions such as the one you and I are having now. Without friction, it's hard to grow one's intellect. And the best universities are the ones that provide the best environment to cultivate this growth.
​
>Why would you then also ruin elite universities?
Increasing diversity will not ruin elite universities. If anything, they will benefit (see my previous point). Again, I will point out that elite universities can keep their high standards AND increase diversity---it's not a zero sum game...
Let me know if you want references for any statements I made.
I hear books are a thing. You should read some. https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108
Gonna shill some more for "Grit" by Angela Duckworth because it's extremely relevant here.
Catherine Cox estimated IQs of 301 geniuses (list) and compared their achievements.
The top 10 achievers had anaverage IQ of 146 while the last 10 had an average IQ of 143. So the IQ difference was trivial but the achievement gap was huge. Meaning there is more to achievement than just IQ.
For the curious the 2 sets are below:
Top 10:
Francis Bacon
Napoleon Bonaparte
Edmund Burke
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Martin Luther
John Milton
Isaac Newton
Voltaire
George Washington
Bottom 10:
Christian K.J. von Bunsen
Thomas Chalmers
Richard Cobden
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Georges J. Danton
Joseph Haydn
Hugues-Felicite-Robert de Lamennais
Giuseppe Mazzini
Joachim Murat
* Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth
The book is about the subject of deliberate training and explains how spending a long time on specific kinds of training develops your skills. Not a research paper, and the tone of book is casual. Many pages are about the author and people around her, and those explained the motivation of studies about the subject and added real life examples to apply those studies, for example, to parenting. In general, the book is hopeful to motivate you to start training towords your goal.
Peak: Secrets from the New Science of Expertise by ders Ericsson and Robert Pool
Another book is about the subject of deliberate training. I recommend you to read this book after Grit. This book is more like a research paper. The tone of this book is drier than Grit but the book contains the details of the studies and advises you how, when and how much you should practice.
Love Does: Discover a Secretly Incredible Life in an Ordinary World by Bob Goff
This book is about activism: love the world and do something instead of preaching religions. Although it is categorized as a Christian book and it certainly mentions god a lot, the message of the book is having the faith in people and the world. One of good things about this book is that the author started out as an ordinary person, who did not have his calling in his teens and was not found by a millionaire to assist his business. His life story seems to be much more familiar to me than other famous people's. Unexpectedly, the story includes the life of an inventor of popular products, and the book served me as his little biography too.
I can fully reccomend this book: https://www.amazon.de/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108
It sort of touches on what you're talking about. And it's very popular at the moment, so everybody should read it, anyways.
If you're struggling academically, this book in college after I had never studied for anything in school and thus not built any learning skils or habits: https://www.amazon.de/How-Become-Straight-Student-Unconventional/dp/0767922719/ref=sr_1_1?s=books-intl-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1504637962&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+become+an+a-student
But there really are no easy fixes. I know it's a cliche, but it's true.
Join the club, man. I'm good at a few things, but greatness is something that's earned through lots of time and work towards a very specific goal. I wouldn't consider myself great at many things either.
You should look into the following books:
https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108
http://gladwell.com/outliers/the-10000-hour-rule/
Maybe this will help guide you along to achieving any sort of greatness in a particular area.
I read this book a couple months back and found it instructive in understanding most pursuits:
https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108/
Specific to your dilemma, I liked this insight the author gleaned from Warren Buffett (excerpted from another article):
http://jamesclear.com/buffett-focus
TL;DR Make a list of 25 things you want to pursue. Then rank them and eliminate all but the top five. Only pursue those things, and pursue them doggedly. Reassess as needed. :)
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