{"product":{"product_id":"0061778192","title":"How Jesus Became God : the Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee","price":"13.89","image_url":"https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/414Ncd4QRjL._SL500_.jpg","url":"https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061778192"},"comments":[{"body":"It’s simple. There’s no evidence anywhere in the world that any human being has been brought back from the dead after being dead for three days. The Bible is a claim, not evidence. Why would anyone believe that Jesus was resurrected? You would have to prove it first to claim there’s no argument against it.\r\n\r\nThis book might give you some good perspective. \r\n\r\nHow Jesus Became God : the Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061778192/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_rSL8CbN6DVTPZ","subreddit_name":"agnostic","author":"Frostvizen"},{"body":"Yes, Jesus existed. He was most likely an apocalyptic prophet/preacher. \r\n\r\nIf you can stomach a read, [Bart Ehrman](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0061778192/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_YyOcGbBW9BVYP) has written a number of books. I'm currently reading this one and it's just fascinating. I'm not much of a reader and it's slow progress for me, but I'm really enjoying learning who Jesus likely was. He was in some ways, more amazing than I had previously thought.","subreddit_name":"exchristian","author":"Alwayslearnin41"},{"body":"You’re making an assumption about my faith there but fair enough. Have a book  recommendation anyway, by a man who knows a whole lot more about Abrahamic scripture than you or I. \r\n\r\nHow Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher From Galilee https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0061778192/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_HFYWD96RDKTR6TEEJADH","subreddit_name":"islam","author":"chisel_pig"},{"body":"I'd recommend [How Jesus Became God](https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3KMFNV3V7JLG9\u0026amp;dchild=1\u0026amp;keywords=ehrman\u0026amp;qid=1630339535\u0026amp;sprefix=ehrman%2Caps%2C175\u0026amp;sr=8-6) and first search the title from youtube to get a lecture. Ehrman is worth listening.","subreddit_name":"atheism","author":"hoijarvi"},{"body":" [This](https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Jesus-Became-Bart-Ehrman/dp/0061778192/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1\u0026amp;keywords=when+jesus+became+god\u0026amp;qid=1615241919\u0026amp;sprefix=when+jesu\u0026amp;sr=8-3) is a scholarly thesis about Jesus. It's very interesting to read.","subreddit_name":"exjw","author":"Alwayslearnin41"},{"body":"I recommend Bart Ehrman's books.  He's a former fundy and a scholar of Christian history.  [How Jesus Became God](https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192?ie=UTF8\u0026amp;ref_=asap_bc) goes right to the heart of Christian theology.","subreddit_name":"atheism","author":"LadyAtheist"},{"body":"You must be one of them so-called Christians if you feel so strongly about it.\r\n\r\nI encourage you to [read this excellent book](http://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=pd_sim_14_3?ie=UTF8\u0026amp;dpID=41elHercmVL\u0026amp;dpSrc=sims\u0026amp;preST=_AC_UL320_SR212%2C320_\u0026amp;refRID=17MXZSVV9MV1PAQJEYKQ) about the origins of the claims of Jesus divinity.","subreddit_name":"exjw","author":"cappytan-exjw"},{"body":"One I was pondering last night while frantically redditing: Since Jesus [probably was not buried in a tomb](http://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/) after his death, how did the empty tomb theory come about? It makes a great narrative and its purpose is clear, but what's the origin? ","subreddit_name":"AcademicBiblical","author":"libraryspy"},{"body":"\u0026gt;I think the evidence firmly points to the person of Jesus having existed and when you couple this with the fact that the apostles did not recant their faith, it makes a promising case that the Resurrection was genuine.\r\n\r\nYou need to develop a standard for evaluating claims. And the standard needs to be something you can honestly live with.\r\n\r\nThere are many, *many* supernatural claims out there. Mohammed, for example: There are Muslims who argue just as effectively for the veracity of Mohammed's miracles as do Christians with respect to Jesus' resurrection. The same goes for many other religions that we still live with today -- and countless more that have died off over the centuries.\r\n\r\nIf your belief in a supernatural event is satisfied by ancient second-hand accounts of uneducated people who've never been exposed to science, then you need to apply that belief even-handedly, without respect to your upbringing, cultural experiences, and so on. But, of course, if you do that, you'll find yourself believing in contradictory dogma.\r\n\r\nThere's a better option: Simply put, Jesus existed. He clearly had an impact. He was tried and executed for that impact. Myths about him (including his resurrection) also developed as a result of that impact. Human beings see patterns, conspiracies, miracles, divine intervention, and divine damnation where none exist. It's a constant in the human experience. We see it historically, with, for example, the myths about Jesus. We see it today, with myths about Q-Anon, crisis actors at Sandy Hook, Obama's birth certificates, and so on. There is something about our brains that invents realities that never existed.\r\n\r\nThe specific details -- the precise, exact manner in which this one specific miracle developed and grew, is a subject of some study (I'll cite one great book below) but we'll never know the exact truth of how this myth got started. However, the absence of absolute certainty as to development of a myth doesn't mean that you have to believe the myth. If you did, you'd be forced to believe in all kinds of contradictory nonsense.\r\n\r\nFor an empirical look at Jesus' life and the development of the myths around him, check out Bart Erhman's [How Jesus Became God](https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=pd_bxgy_14_2/131-0549867-6648157?_encoding=UTF8\u0026amp;pd_rd_i=0061778192\u0026amp;pd_rd_r=d075ca5e-a849-11e9-b120-f170bfc69993\u0026amp;pd_rd_w=PCSH4\u0026amp;pd_rd_wg=xTK8C\u0026amp;pf_rd_p=a2006322-0bc0-4db9-a08e-d168c18ce6f0\u0026amp;pf_rd_r=2KTJDRA65YJX73HBDGW6\u0026amp;psc=1\u0026amp;refRID=2KTJDRA65YJX73HBDGW6). Erhman is a highly-respected biblical scholar and author of a number of textbooks, a few of which I read ages ago when I was a Religious Studies university student.","subreddit_name":"excatholic","author":"sneakyuntiedsneakers"},{"body":"You should probably read Bart Ehrman's book \r\n\r\n[https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=sr\\_1\\_1?crid=TVMQUUZ0I1Z\u0026amp;keywords=how+jesus+became+god\u0026amp;qid=1636494861\u0026amp;sprefix=how+jesus+%2Caps%2C284\u0026amp;sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=sr_1_1?crid=TVMQUUZ0I1Z\u0026amp;keywords=how+jesus+became+god\u0026amp;qid=1636494861\u0026amp;sprefix=how+jesus+%2Caps%2C284\u0026amp;sr=8-1)","subreddit_name":"Christianity","author":"GeniusBtch"},{"body":"I realize I am talking to a christian, and that is going to skew some of the way that you read things. You are coming into this conversation primed to see your religion in these texts. For this conversation, you have to forget everything you think you know about these texts according to your religion. If you don't, then you are going to misinterpret what some of the authors have written.\r\n\r\n\u0026gt; You’re claiming that the Bible is a patchwork manuscript cobbled together from other religions. \r\n\r\nIt's not even debatable that it's got many different authors. It's pretty widely accepted amongst old testament (OT) scholars that the pentateuch is not authored by Moses, but by several different authors. Some think it's the authors JEPD, but others see even more inconsistencies between those, indicating it's more authors or redactors than just that. \r\n\r\nAs for heaven and hell, [that's not taught in the OT or in Jesus' teachings.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoQO5JS8Gqs) Sometimes sheol is translated as hell in some bibles, but that is not what Jews during Jesus' time or before believed. Sheol was just a place where everyone went when they died. It had no connotations of being a place where evil people were sent.\r\n\r\nI'll give you just one example of a mistranslation of hell. This page cites Matt 10:28 saying \"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in **hell**.\r\n\r\nSource: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Hell,-Punishment-Of\r\n\r\nNow if we go to blueletterbible.org and go down to the word 'hell', we can see it's actually geenna, or gehenna. This was a place outside of Jerusalem where they threw their trash to have it burned. Gehenna =/= hell. I know I read a more extensive breakdown of all these mistranslations of hell somewhere, but I can't for the life of me remember where it was. It might have been in one of Bart Ehrman's books.\r\n\r\nAs far as Jesus just teaching separation of god, I dunno about that. I can't remember the book or verse, but Jesus was talking about punishment for not being one of his followers. It's in there, I promise.\r\n\r\n\u0026gt;  but I have been reading the New Testament for a LONG time and I have never noticed that the Gospel of John portrayed Jesus in a way that was “decidedly different.” Got any examples?\r\n\r\nSure. Basically John's gospel indicates that Jesus is divine. The synoptics do not. There's a passage in John where someone is like \"Who are you?\" and Jesus is all \"I'M BATMAN!\". Ok sorry, he says \"I Am.\". Had to throw in a little levity there. Of course I'm sure you're aware, I Am is Yahweh's response to Moses. \r\n\r\nThe synoptic gospels, in short, do not make this indication. They call Jesus many things. They say he's a really great guy, that he's the messiah, the son of god and all of that. \r\n\r\n* Lord: Another name for a king. Not an indication of deity status\r\n* Messiah: Several people have had this title, and it didn't mean they were a deity. It translates as 'god's anointed one'. King David was a messiah. When they 'prophesied' a messiah, they were probably referring to someone who would reinstate Israel as a sovereign nation so they could be under theocratic rule according to Yahweh's commandments.\r\n* Son of god: Nope, and all I have to do to demonstrate this point, is ask you to google 'children of god'. You will find many many results referring to all of us as children of god. It does not mean we are gods. They are trying to say we are special in god's eyes, or that we were created in his image, or some other positive affect. So too did earlier Jews say this about people, without any indication of being a deity. See [How Jesus became God](https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192) by Bart Ehrman\r\n\r\nIn the OT, it's not uncommon to see Yahweh Sabbaoth, which translates as Yahweh, lord of hosts/lord of armies. He was a war god. AND, he wasn't even the only god those people believed existed, hence the monolatrist polytheism. You can see indications of this in the texts, and in other sources. I belive it's in The Origins of Biblical Monotheism where Mark Smith talks about the cult of Yahweh borrowing attributes from Baal, (yes THAT Baal)\r\n\r\nThere's a pottery shard that was found that says \"Yahweh and his Asherah\". Asherah was one of the gods in the Levantine pantheon of gods. She was a fertility goddess. Baal was a storm god, and sometimes a war god. Molech was in there too. I'm sure you've heard these names before, among others.\r\n\r\nI know what modern day christians say about these gods, that they are gods with a little g. You have to throw out what they think about these texts, and ask yourself, \"What did the authors of these texts mean?\". The scholarly consensus is that they were [monolatrist polytheists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolatry). This idea is in many scholarly books like [The Origins of Biblical Monotheism](https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=5B1B5DF83B14923448FD7910D35DC532) by Mark Smith.\r\n\r\nThere's a passage in Deuteronomy where El gives land to Yahweh! That's right, El is not simply another epithet for Yahweh. Is El sometimes used as a word meaning god? Yes, it is. Is it sometimes used as a name for a different deity than Yahweh? Some scholars argue that yes, that is the case. One of the evidences they point to, is Deuteronomy 32 where it mentions El giving land to Yahweh.\r\n\r\n\u0026gt;Contrary to these biblical traditions that suggest an assimilation between Yahweh and El, there are other passages that seem to indicate that Yahweh was a separate and independent deity within El’s council. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is one of those rare biblical passages that seemingly preserves a vestige of an earlier period in proto-Israelite religion where El and Yahweh were still depicted as separate deities: Yahweh was merely one of the gods of El’s council! This tradition undeniably comes from older Canaanite lore.\r\n\r\n\u0026gt;\u0026gt;When the Most High (’elyôn) gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated humanity, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of divine beings. For Yahweh’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.\r\n\r\nhttps://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/","subreddit_name":"AskReddit","author":"agnosgnosia"},{"body":"I read that book IN SCHOOL (a trinitarian faith secondary school) and pretty much had everyone freaking out. I got called down to the office to get a talking to by the headmaster. I got yelled at by the librarians for daring to open \"a book of the Devil\".  I was really amused bc the opening of it is all about the Council of Nicaea and how Jesus was voted on as a god. lol I knew that bc I was raised unitarian and so it wasn't surprising to me any of that history but they really freaked out about a NOVEL!!! \r\n\r\nBTW if you haven't read \"How Jesus Became God\" by NT scholar Bart Ehrman you really should. It's factual and brilliant and easy to understand. \r\n\r\n[https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=sr\\_1\\_1?crid=TVMQUUZ0I1Z\u0026amp;keywords=how+jesus+became+god\u0026amp;qid=1636494861\u0026amp;sprefix=how+jesus+%2Caps%2C284\u0026amp;sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=sr_1_1?crid=TVMQUUZ0I1Z\u0026amp;keywords=how+jesus+became+god\u0026amp;qid=1636494861\u0026amp;sprefix=how+jesus+%2Caps%2C284\u0026amp;sr=8-1)","subreddit_name":"exchristian","author":"GeniusBtch"},{"body":"I'm happy you are deconstructing! A lot of us reached that point and that's why we are here now. \r\n\r\n If you haven't heard or read any Bart Ehrman stuff I highly recommend his works. \r\n\r\n[https://youtu.be/BvKxJc-huEA?t=50](https://youtu.be/BvKxJc-huEA?t=50)\r\n\r\n[https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=sr\\_1\\_1?crid=TVMQUUZ0I1Z\u0026amp;keywords=how+jesus+became+god\u0026amp;qid=1636494861\u0026amp;sprefix=how+jesus+%2Caps%2C284\u0026amp;sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=sr_1_1?crid=TVMQUUZ0I1Z\u0026amp;keywords=how+jesus+became+god\u0026amp;qid=1636494861\u0026amp;sprefix=how+jesus+%2Caps%2C284\u0026amp;sr=8-1)","subreddit_name":"Exvangelical","author":"GeniusBtch"},{"body":"Good book recommendation: *’How Jesus Became God’* by Bart D Ehrman \r\n\r\nHow Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher From Galilee https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0061778192/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_3GDGHN5TSRGXCXVY9A1B","subreddit_name":"answers","author":"chisel_pig"},{"body":"OK, put it like this: God exists, and is perfect. I know that *whatever* he says is both correct, and moral. But that doesn't tell me what religion I should be!\r\n\r\nMaybe he says Muslims go to heaven! They believe in God (Allah is just the Arabic word for \"God\", Arabian Christians also call God Allah). Maybe he says Zoroastrians go to heaven; they believe in God. Maybe he says Manicheans, or Mormons, or Rasafari, or Eastern Orthodox but not Roman Catholics go to heaven!  These are all religions and sects that believe in God, and there are many more!\r\n\r\nAlso, just because I know he's infallible and all knowing etc., why should I assume that he even cares what religion I am? Or hell, even worse maybe he says the only the nonreligious go to heaven, because all religions are evil! Or maybe it's really specific, he doesn't care if you are *not* religious, but *will* punish you if you're the *wrong* religion. So maybe Druze and moral atheists go to heaven, but Muslims, Christians and Jews go to hell!\r\n\r\nMy point is, why should I assume that a God who meets *all* of your definitions wants me to be one particular religion over the other?  There is no evidence of this at all, seems pretty presumptuous if you ask me. Almost disrespectful, to assume I understand what a perfect being wants.  Maybe that disrespect is enough to send me to hell!\r\n\r\n----------\r\n\r\nWhat's more, let's say I decide to make my *absolute* best guess about what this perfectly moral, infallible creator wants for me:\r\n\r\nWell, for starters, sacred texts are obviously out.  There a hundreds upon thousands of them, all contradictory, with no reason to believe in any one over any other.  Many of them (the Bible for instance) are *obviously* made up by fallible humans, and don't even agree with themselves, or portray God in a vaguely consistent manner, and [we have a pretty good historical record of exactly how they were made up, and how they changed over time.](https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192)\r\n\r\nSo okay, sacred texts are out.  What else do I have? Well, I can't know what God's \"true\" morality is, but he did, I assume, create me, and so it wouldn't be crazy to assume that my moral instincts might in some way line up with God's *true* morality right?  Maybe not, but it's not a bad guess... Well, my instincts tell me that a moral God wouldn't punish someone for being of the wrong creed, so it doesn't matter which one I choose. Seems like as good a justification as any, at the very least.\r\n\r\nNow, maybe I'm 100% wrong, maybe God created me with bad moral instincts, but the point is that I have literally no way of knowing that, so I may as well just do by best and cross my fingers...\r\n\r\nSo sure, God exists: he's perfect, infallible, all knowing, all powerful, everywhere, perfectly moral etc. etc. etc.   But I have no reason to believe the Christians know what he wants from me. And, in fact, plenty of good reasons to assume that believing in a specific sect of a specific religion piously might well be thumbing my nose at God for all I know! How presumptuous and arrogant for a speck of dust to claim to know exactly what his almighty creator wants. Better to play it on the safe side if you ask me...","subreddit_name":"changemyview","author":"tomatoswoop"}]}