What is Reddit's opinion of
Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist: Unlocking the Secrets of the Last Supper?
From 3.5 billion Reddit comments
ProductGPT
Try the custom AI to help you find products that Reddit loves.
15 reviews of this product found across Reddit:
Would it help if we just renamed ourselves "Followers of the Jewish Messiah?" Christianity is just the name of the collection of people who ended up following Jesus as the Messiah. Some of us strongly follow our Jewish roots in our practices under the New Covenant.
I'd highly recommend you read Brant Pitre's, "Jesus and the Jewish roots of the Eucharist" (https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jewish-Roots-Eucharist-Unlocking/dp/0385531842) or watch one of his talks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P45BHDRA7pU).
Bro, I highly recommend you read, Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist it gave me a better understanding of Catholicism.
>I'd read in the Book of Mormon that seemed to contradict the Bible.
Hey OP I am curious, what was it that cast doubt on your belief in Mormonism there?
>I actually started laughing, realizing I was wrong all this time.
This is a very good sign. I am almost certain everybody on this sub would agree about this.
As for how to become Catholic here are some of the steps I recommend:
1) Learn the basic prayers of the Rosary (These prayers we say all the time): - The sign of the Cross. - Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed more commonly knows as the "I Believe" - Our Father, it can be found in scripture of you are looking for the reference Matthew 6:9-13 - Hail Mary Luke 1:28, Luke 1:42, Luke 1:43 and James 5:16 - Glory Be.
2) Find your local Parish and set up a time to talk to the parish priest (If he has time a lot of them are stretched thin)and tell him how you want to become Catholic. He will help direct you to a local RCIA program.
3) Start getting acquainted with the faith, I recommend The Catechism. Although it's a bit dense I would also recommend Dr Brant Pitre's book Jesus and The Jewish roots of the Eucharist., there is also one other book that I recommend because you are coming from Mormonism and that's Pope Fiction to help get rid of some of the lies you may have or may hear about the papacy.
4) Get your self a Bible preferably the RSV-CE version and start praying the Rosary at least once a week. I have included links below to help with that.
15 Promises of the Rosary by Send us Feidelium
Note you don't have to say all the mysteries every day there is a rubric which I have also included here. Full disclosure, the last link in a website that I made for Our Lady under the title of Our Lady of Sorrows. (Shameless plug).
And that should be a good start right there OP, we all are more than happy to help you on your journey, please feel free to reach out if you have any questions. Either way God Bless you.😄
https://www.amazon.ca/Jesus-Jewish-Roots-Eucharist-Unlocking/dp/0385531842?ref_=d6k_applink_bb_dls Dr Pitre is the guy you wanna read homie. God Bless you OP.
No worries. This will be a long reply. TLDR is that you can celebrate the Eucharist anywhere AFAIK, but it's not truly the Eucharist if a Catholic priest or bishop does not perform the ceremony.
I may have spoken too quickly earlier, because here's the gist: there's no rules about celebrating the Lord's Supper / Mass in a particular building. In fact, Mass can be held in your own home, or a hospital, or anywhere really! We normally celebrate it in churches because that is convenient and befitting to God's majesty.
However, there are rules about who can celebrate it validly. This would be restricted to priests and bishops who have been ordained within the Catholic Church. An evangelical church, or a group of laymen on a picnic might celebrate an imitation of Lord's Supper, but it is not the same thing as what Jesus institutes in the Bible.
>Why is this? And who cares?
Well first, let's clarify what the Lord' Supper actually is. As you said above, Jesus clearly lays out how this meal--the Eucharist--is truly his flesh and blood (John 6:55), and the new Passover which we all must take part in to be delivered from the slavery of sin (instead of Egypt). He says if we do not eat his flesh, we do not have life in us (John 6:53). So an imitation of the Lord's Supper will not do--we need the real deal. And it's a pretty big deal I would say--to be given the responsibility of handling the very body and blood of Jesus--the God of the universe.
>Okay, so we should care about a real vs imitated Last Supper. But why only priests and bishops?
Priest and bishops have what the Catholic Church refers to as "apostolic succession". Every priest and bishop that you see today was ordained by an older bishop, and so on, with a lineage of ordination tracing all the way back to Jesus ordaining the Twelve apostles.
>What's the big deal with the apostles? Aren't they just teachers?
Yes, but they're more than that. They have a special authority given to them directly by Jesus. We can clearly see Jesus entrusting them with a specific responsibility by the nature of their membership in the Twelve. For example, we notice in all 4 Gospels at the Last Supper, Jesus only invites the Twelve to dine with him. This is significant. He had many other disciples, but he only invited the Twelve. Knowing this context, we then realize the commands he gives--"do this, in memory of me"--are given to the Twelve directly and alone. We also see passages like the Matthew 10 and the Great Commission in Matthew 28:16-20 and receiving the ability to forgive sins John 20:21-23. Peter specifically is given a special authority (Matt. 16:18). Jesus did not give this to everyone--remember how when Judas died, Peter and the others cast lots to appoint a new member of the Twelve (Acts 1:15-26)? Note specifically that Peter says "Lord...show which one of these two thou hast chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside.."
Clearly apostleship is more than just spreading the good news--if it were, then why would Jesus spend all this time training a special group? Why would they need to replace Judas? It's because they have a special authority nobody else does, given directly by Jesus. So for someone to have authority to teach--and administer sacraments, like the Eucharist--Catholic Tradition says they must have inherited this authority from the apostles, because the apostles are the only ones who have authority from Jesus. This does not mean normal people can't share the good news, or talk about Jesus but it means they cannot claim to be authorities or administer sacraments. Only priest and bishops have this authority. Hence, any Lord's Supper celebrated by someone who is not a priest or a bishop is invalid.
>Okay, but when do we see priests and bishops "ordained" in the Bible?
Well it wasn't called "ordination" yet, but throughout the book of Acts and Paul's letters, we catch references to "laying of hands" (Acts 6:1-7, 13:1-3, 14:23, 1 Tim. 4:14, 5:22). This is ordination! We still do it today in the Church. If you read closely what St. Paul says--"Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the elders laid their hands upon you...Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands..."--we can see there is something more than just baptizing and saving people going on. Timothy is being given some kind of authority from the "elders", and St. Paul is warning him to not be hasty in giving that same authority to others! Early on the terminology wasn't 100% worked out, so we see the word "elders" is used interchangeably with "overseers" AKA bishops, and "deacons" who are also "presbyters" or priests. The word "priest" comes from the Greek word "presbyteros".
Furthermore, not all of what Jesus said and did was written down (John 21:25). In fact, many of the traditions were given by word of mouth (2 Thess. 2:15) in the early Church--they didn't have Bibles yet! These unwritten traditions are what the Catholic Church calls Sacred Tradition. Later many were written down in canon law, or at councils, but this is the origin of many of the practices and customs you see in the Catholic Church--they aren't all in the Bible. We believe that Sacred Tradition coexists with Sacred Scripture, but also that Tradition cannot contradict Scripture. Hence many of these understandings are things that are not explicitly in the bible but are supported by it.
If you want to know more about the Eucharist specifically, I would strongly recommend you read this book called "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist". It's a very easy read but gives a lot of detail behind the Lord's Supper, what it means, how was it understood by the apostles, and why the Catholic Church makes such a big deal out of it today.
More info: https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jewish-Roots-Eucharist-Unlocking/dp/0385531842 https://www.catholic.com/qa/where-in-the-new-testament-are-priests-mentioned https://www.catholic.com/tract/bishop-priest-and-deacon https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/invalid-masses
I wrote a lot but I am very happy to clarify anything you have questions about. Just let me know!
Jesus and the Jewish roots of the Eucharist. Dr Brant Pitre is a heavy hitting Biblical scholar, I think you may really enjoy this book.
I find that Brant Pitre is an excellent biblical scholar who has written such books as Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist, A Catholic Introduction to the Bible (OT), The Case for Jesus, and Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary -- among many of his other works. He also has a YouTube channel where he explains the Sunday Gospel.
I'm sure there are plenty of other great theologians out there who could address your concerns, but Brant is one contemporary theologian that immediately pops to mind.
I highly recommend the following:
Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist by Brant Pitre
The Fathers Know Best: Your Essential Guide to the Teachings of the Early Church by Jimmy Akin
The Bible Is a Catholic Book by Jimmy Akin
From the Church Fathers, found online:
Ambrose (340-397 AD) On the Mysteries
Justin Martyr (100-165 AD) The First Apology, especially Chapters 65 - 68
Do you know anything about the Dominicans? Saint Dominic was born in Caleruega, Spain in 1170. He was born to noble parents at a time when the Church was in trouble: clergy and laity alike were poorly educated and many were falling to heresy. Before St. Dominic's birth, his mother had a vision of a black and white dog with a flaming torch in its mouth, running about setting the world on fire.
When St. Dominic grew up, his zeal for the Gospel inspired him to first become a priest, then to found the Order of Preaches. These men-- clad in black and white robes-- traveled in pairs all throughout Europe, teaching people the Gospel truth and spreading devotion to the Lord. This was the fulfillment of his mother's prophetic dream: the friars were commonly known as "Dominicans", which in latin mean "dogs of the Lord", and the spread the fire of the Holy Spirit throughout the world.
This story is well known from his life:
>While Dominic and Br. Bertrand were traveling through the alps, they sang prayers and recited psalms, which attracted the attention of two German pilgrims, who began to follow them. When they came to the next village the two German pilgrims, being greatly attracted by the devotion of the pair, made motions to them indicating that they should sit down and dine with them. It was somewhat of an awkward situation since the Germans could not understand the Dominicans, nor could the Dominicans understand the Germans. This continued for four days, with the Germans sharing their food with the Dominicans.
>On the fifth day St. Dominic addressed Bertrand in this manner: "Brother Bertrand, it grieves me to reap the temporal things of these pilgrims without sowing for them spiritual things: let us kneel down and ask God to grant us the understanding of their language, that we may speak to them of Christ." Accordingly, they knelt down and prayed. When they rose up, they were able to converse with the Germans in their own language and did so without difficulty for the rest of the journey.
>As they drew near Paris, the Germans, now filled with spiritual wisdom, left their company. The earthly food which the Germans had provided had been exchanged by Dominic for spiritual food which nourished their spirits and was beneficial to their eternal salvation.
A contemporary of St. Dominic and Br. Bertrand was St. Francis of Assisi. He was born in Italy in about 1181 AD, also to a well-off family. He was a wild and sinful teenager, but after being imprisoned as a result of his wanton ways, Francis heard the voice of Christ, who told him to repair the Christian Church and live a life of poverty. Consequently, he abandoned his life of luxury and became a devotee of the faith, his reputation spreading all over the Christian world. He founded the Franciscan friars, who also traveled throughout Europe spreading the Gospel.
One of his friars was St. Anthony, about which this story was recorded:
>St Anthony of Padua, one of the chosen students and companions of St Francis was preaching one day before the Pope and the Cardinals, there were therefore present at that moment men of different countries- Greeks and Latins, French and Germans, Slavs and English and men of many other different languages and dialects.
>And being inflamed by the Holy Spirit and inspired with apostolic eloquence, he preached and explained the word of God so effectively, devoutly, subtly, clearly and understandably that all who were assembled at that Consistory, although they spoke different languages, clearly and distinctly heard and understood everyone of his words as if he had spoken in each of their languages. Therefore they were all astounded and filled with devotion, for it seemed to them that the former miracle of the Apostles at the time of Pentecost had been renewed, when by the power of the Holy Spirit they spoke in different languages.
>And in amazement, just like in the Acts of the Apostles they said to one another: "Is he not a Spaniard?' How then are we all hearing him in the language of the country where we were born-we Greeks and Latins, French and Germans, Slavs and English, Lombards and foreigners?"
>It was not only then that St. Anthony's gift of tongues was utilized. It is written that while preaching in Italy he spoke in perfect Italian, and while in France he preached in French, although he had never studied these languages. Also remarkable is the fact that "the simple-minded and the most ignorant listeners were capable of fully comprehending all he said; and his voice, though gentle and sweet, was distinctly heard at a very extraordinary distance from the speaker.
Have you ever read Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist? It seems like it would be a good read. Granted, it's Scott Hahn, so it almost definitely is.
That book is an excellent resource for the lay person. Another good one is by the same author.
Brant Pitre talks about this in his <em>Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist</em>.
John 6 has a lot of context, but, yes, Jesus means it literally.
Context: First of all, the Gospel of John is a mature reflection on the Incarnation in all of its aspects. It begins in the first few chapters with very strong ties in the first chapter to Genesis. There is a strict parallel in the seven days that begin John, for example. This continues with highly mystical language, and all of it is set in the context of the Jewish holy days.
Knowing this, what holy day do you suppose is near the events of John 6? Yes, you've guessed it: Passover. During the Passover, remember, the Hebrews would eat the flesh of the lamb and mark their lintels with the blood of the lamb, and the event would not be over until they had eaten the flesh of the lamb. By doing so, the angel of death would pass over their houses. A lot more can be said about that, and the significance of the Passover meal.
Reading the immediate chapter of John 6, from the time that the Passover has started, we have several discrete points, worth elaborating.
- Miraculous feeding
- Jesus walks on water
These first two underscore Jesus' authority and the importance of having faith. People follow him across the lake, and it looks good at first:
- Followers pursue him, asking, "What sign?"
- Eat the bread of life, better even than manna.
- Great! Give us the bread of life.
- I am the bread of life, Jesus says.
- Wait. What? We know you, son of Joseph ...
>Jesus answered them, “Do not complain among yourselves. No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me; and I will raise that person up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
- How can he give us flesh to eat?
At this point, Jesus doubles down. Eat my flesh, drink my blood, in a way that means basically to gnaw as an animal does. He talks about the manna, again, and the importance of every single point he has so far made. He does not back away or explain away.
Questions:
> Are you (we) really suppose to eat and drink him? (whoever feeds on me)
Yes.
> Why must you (we) do this? (exactly)
To enter heaven, we must have within us the life of God. In the language of the Bible, the blood is life. This is why the drinking of blood of animals was forbidden in the Old Testament; this prohibition is also why his followers left him after hearing the command to drink blood.
To have the blood of God within us, to have the life of God within us, we must drink the blood of God. This is normatively, mind, because God is not constrained to operating this way. However, Jesus in commanding us invites us to his chosen way for us to receive him.
> How often?
Theoretically, at least once, or zero times given some extraordinary means God doesn't describe. That said, it is customary for the Church to meet on the Lord's Day, Sunday.
Here's the thing: "How often" is probably the wrong question. To eat the body and blood is ultimately an act of love, a participation in the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. How often does a man and his wife have sex? How often do they say, "I love you?" Participation in eating the body and blood is a privilege and a joy.
> Does the act of doing this sound strange or is it just me?
No, it isn't just you. Keep reading John 6 and you'll see that lots of other people didn't like it, either. When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This teaching is difficult; who can accept it?”
As if to emphasize this point, John says that it is at this moment that Judas decides to betray Jesus. That's how central eating the body and blood is to the Christian religion.
> As a former believer, I never asked questions, I just followed. Now that I no longer believe, I'm just trying to understand it (Christianity) all. These verses sound bizarre (for lack of a better word) to me now. I'm trying to understand the thinking/ idea of it?
I hope this helped. If not, feel free to ask for clarification. A lot more could be said. Some blog posts, and I hope they help.
- John 6 and the Eucharist
- Why we should take John 6 literally about transubstatiation
- How do we know Jesus isn't speaking figuratively about the Eucharist in John 6?
- Does John 6:63 refute the real presence?
- 6 early Christian controversies that Protestantism can't explain
... and, I can't recommend enough this post, from Called to Communion, an outreach to the Reformed from Catholics, many if not all former Reformed Christians. It is as scholarly as a Web original is going to get, and it's all about the Church Fathers on transubstantiation.
You can reject the interpretation of the Church Fathers, I guess, but if you do so you are not talking about the historical Christian religion. (Not polemics, mind, because the Reformers did cite the Fathers early and often.)
Read Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist. That will answer most of your questions.
Popular alternatives to Jesus and the Jewish Roots ...
How to Have Impossible Conversations: A Very Practical Guide
God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships
