What is Reddit's opinion of Killing Hope: Us Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II?

From 3.5 billion Reddit comments

Did you know the CIA provided kill lists of leftists to a right-wing military junta in 1965 Indonesia, resulting in a million dead Indonesians? Did you know that was only the start of a worldwide mass-murder program orchestrated by our government, which also helped disappear and kill hundreds of thousands of communists even throughout allied European countries?

Read this book if you think anything about “the American project” is worth salvaging: https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Hope-Military-Interventions-Updated/dp/1783601779

Check the blurbs if you think it’s just some wacky conspiracy shit. Fans include Noam Chomsky, a former NYT bureau chief, a former attorney general of the US, Gore Vidal, Oliver Stone. I sure didn’t learn this stuff in history class!

Jesus Christ, do you hear yourself? All you do is repeat the same tired trope, "people were happy and knew their place before these outsiders intervened with their fancy new ideas." It sounds like you're the one who doesn't like having their narrative destroyed. You have an emotional attachment to the stories you've heard from family members about the good ol' days in Angola and can't stand to have that shattered.

>Not to mention when communist took power, it lead to a 30 year war

You are blaming the communists for foreign nations supporting insurgencies (UNITA) within their country, and for outright invading the country, as South Africa did multiple times. Throughout history, whenever communists take power, capitalist countries have intervened to destabilize and overthrow them. Blaming MPLA for the war is like blaming Zelensky for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

>one of the richest countries in Africa went to become one of the poorest in the world!

Angola was rich in natural resources, but it was not a rich country, because most of its wealth got extracted by its European owners. Angola has never been a "rich country."

Highly recommend reading Killing Hope by William Blum - a fascinating but deeply depressing trawl through the CIA's role of murder, torture and corruption, crushing any people-driven threat to capitalism around the world for the last 80 years.

I always recommend Killing Hope by William Blum - a fascinating but deeply depressing trawl through the CIA role of murder, torture and corruption in crushing any regime which threatens capitalism around the world for the last 80 years.

Killing Hope by William Blum is a superb (and thoroughly bleak) account of the CIA's crimes around the world - murdering decent people in the name of Capitalism and right-wing dictatorships.

> The US had a hundred plus years to help create another prosperous Asian country like South Korea or Japan instead it installed and supported despot presidents and left the Philippines a backward backwater buffer zone.

Sad, but true.

But let's be real here.

Japan, thanks to the Japanese themselves, was, like Germany, already a prosperous country before WWII. WWII destroyed much of Japan, but just like Germany, the work ethic and political system of the people there meant that those countries would bounce back basically no matter what the US did.

South Korea, like Taiwan, was real economic development after WWII. But the US did this how -- by supporting right-wing dictatorships in the countries in question. (Similar to our support of Marcos in the Philippines.)

Because of our Cold War, we cut tariffs for South Korea and Taiwan (thus transferring US wealth to those countries), and ignored the labor and human rights abuses of Taiwanese and Korean capitalists. The end result was economic growth.

But should we be proud of that? Should we be proud that the South Korean people were so exploited that in the early 1980s the Korean people had to rise up and overthrow the US-backed/installed dictator?

> Now you and your ilk talk of assassinating an elected president of an independent island country.

Do not confuse "talking about" something and advocating something.

It is a simple statement of fact that the US government routinely overthrows democratic governments. This is profusely documented and is a simple matter of history.

Killing Hope is an excellent insight into the scale and horror of US interventions around the world, murdering anything that is a threat to capitalism.

Considering the amount of bloodshed the US has been responsible for in Latin America, I think it’s very presumptuous to explain the differences widely as a matter of saying ‘they’re corrupt and backwards because they aren’t like us’, when they’ve hardly been given a chance for truly independent development on their own. ‘Very few’ of those places have been permitted to succeed or fail on their own merits (1, 2, 3).

>Lol the ideal that the US opposes North Korea because of "minerals" is just crazy talk.

The DPRK has trillions of dollars in resources, and the US would love to benefit from the overthrow of its government.

>>Whatever may be done to guard against interruptions of supply and to develop domestic alternatives, the U.S. economy will require large and increasing amounts of minerals from abroad, especially from less developed countries. That fact gives the U.S. enhanced interest in the political, economic, and social stability of the supplying countries. Wherever a lessening of population pressures through reduced birth rates can increase the prospects for such stability, population policy becomes relevant to resource supplies and to the economic interests of the United States

-Henry Kissinger

https://wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_Kissinger

>And North Korea's "anti capatilist ideology" Is about as relevant as humors theory. Look at the South, look at the North everyone knows their system is a disaster.

It's extremely relevant. Socialist ideology and the political-economic systems the DPRK and the the USSR have in common is why there are still sanctions on Cuba (and why the DPRK exists in the first place). If the system is such a disaster then I'm not sure what the point in the US spending its time destroying everything in sight that even sounded like socialism during the 20th century and to this day was. Why did the CIA spend money, time and serious effort trying to convince workers in Chile that socialism doesn't work, before sanctioning it so the economy really doesn't work? Are they stupid? The DPRK is such a failure it needs to be the most sanctioned country on the planet for it to stop functioning? What was Operation Gladio?

(You talk about south Korea, imagine if south Korea, the basket-case of Asia didn't have the US to revive its economy and exist as its benefactor, and was then sanctioned to hell for being "dangerous"? What then?)

No, it's a competitor with the capitalist economic system and ideology, and any competition needs to be squashed to justify its existence, and guarantee the spread of neoliberalism and infinite extraction of wealth and resources from peripheral nations. The DPRK does not accept neoliberal ideology or allow the US to exploit it. If other countries followed in their footsteps do you realize what a disaster that would be for the capitalist class? The DPRK and Cuba along with many other victims of US foreign policy set a good example for what happens when you reject US orthodoxy.

Defending slave-like labor in Thied World countries because it pays 4 cents an hour instead of 2 cents an hour is peak American exceptionalism. These people do not work at American factories because they "choose" to, they do it because they usually have no other alternative. American firms upend the economies and self sustainability of small nations and then prey upon the ruins, pushing out or domineering local industry entirely. This is a tale as old as time.

You seriously think a billion people would be dead if America hadn't acted imperially? What about the Allende government of Chile, which was peacefully elected and then overthrown by the US and replaced by a US-backed dictator called Pinochet who slaughtered thousands of people? What about the bombing of North Korea during the Korean war that leveled every major town and city in the country entirelt and killed over 80% of their population, forcing them to turn inward and become the hermit state we know today? What about the Philippines, where we comandeered a democratic independence movement and ended up committing ethnic genocide against the native population? What about Sudan, where we bombed the only water filtration center in the entite country and directly caused a massive cholera outbreak as a result? You want a more recent example? How about the attempted coup in Ecuador, or the crippling sanctions on Cuba, or the merciless bombing of civilians in the Middle East?

Fun fact: out of the 246 years this country has existed, we have been at war for 228 of those. And that's not even counting US-backed coups or proxy wars.

Here's a few suggested readings to educate yourself about this "egalitarian" society you're so vehemently defending: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1783601779/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_2AB2W8KDZC2NCNPVC8E4

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250251095/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_98HAVXE2HAREG9EV8W37

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0805086846/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_Y25BSEW1HZEW7G7R8367

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0872862984/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_VMWS8P2W394W9Q16W9DG

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Well when you take the foreign policy into account, it makes sense why Communist regimes had to go authoritarian. When your nation is being used as a proxy between international powerhouses for ideological ground, none of these regimes are given any permission to succeed or fail on their own merits. They had to go authoritarian to defend themselves from outside forces and usurpers. Otherwise counter-revolutioinaries come in and undo all the progress you've made (1, 2, 3, 4).

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> Basically every Marxist state ever has had that.

Hence, why they aren't Communist.

Its why auth lefters cry about real communism not having been tried.

Yeah, this isn't true.

That’s because practically none of them were allowed to succeed or fail on their own merits. This has been documented numerous times (1, 2, 3). It isn’t some secret.

The Zapatistas, the Ukrainian Free Territories, Spanish Catalonia? (To some extent) The Naxalite Rebellion? Shinmin Province? The early history of the US? There have been numerous examples of socialism. I don’t know why so many people here don’t actually address it. Seems like they fell for the Cold War propaganda about State Socialism and the rest of history’s been erased. I agree I don’t think it works. But don’t shoot at the wrong target.

It makes sense given the history why so many of these communist regimes became authoritarian. They had to be. Otherwise counter-revolutionaries come in and undo all the progress you’ve made.

There's a long history of workers communes that have existed in the United States going back to the inception of the country (1, 2). It's even been fully documented and well known, throughout American economic history.

That’s because practically none of them were allowed to succeed or fail on their own merits. This has been documented numerous times (1, 2, 3. It isn’t some secret.

The Zapatistas, the Ukrainian Free Territories, Spanish Catalonia? The early history of the US? There have been numerous examples of socialism. I don’t know why so many of you guys don’t actually address it. Seems like you fell for the Cold War propaganda about State Socialism and the rest of history’s been erased to you. I agree I don’t think it works. But don’t shoot at the wrong target.

It makes sense given the history why so many of these communist regimes became authoritarian. They had to be, otherwise counter-revolutionaries come in and undo all the progress you’ve made.

> Stop making this a US only political problem.

The USA is the imperial core and has since WW2 always actively fought all efforts to change the current state of affairs, especially by force.

Read: Killing Hope (Amazon Link)

Here is another nice list: United States involvement in regime change

The USA - Killing Hope around the world since the 1940s

Of course Sanders is right but the CIA has been helping governments to kill dissidents all around the world since 1945.

Read Killing Hope by Robert Blum

If America dies - the world wins. So simple.

>Tell me, if I were not an armed forces member what would change?

I don't know. Would you be a cop? We love hypotheticals.

>In reality nothing of course, I am not a very important person, but let's assume I were. Let's assume that by me not joining the US military, the US instantly becomes about as militarily powerful as Sweden.

That's a hell of a non sequitur...

>Who wins? Essentially fascist Russia,

Russia and China aren't imperialist countries in even remotely the same way the the US imposes its form of imperialism. The US is a hegemon, there are entire theories devoted to this - and there are non devoted to the idea of Russia, China, or any other country you can name - aside from the US. Why?

Here's a hint. https://s30.postimg.org/91mnxzz0h/wmb.png

Here's a book on the topic: https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Hope-Military-Interventions-Updated/dp/1783601779/

>Neither your ideology nor mine benefit.

Actually my ideology does benefit from the downfall of the prime predator nation. Communism is against predation.

wow, who could imagine the CIA doing such a thing?

Read Robert Blum's Killing Hope - a litany of 70 years of murder, torture and generally fucking up any attempts around the world to create more equal societies.

Hasn't there been many books written on the topic? Here's one.

Your request for a citation is nothing more than a troll. It's clear the US has been the most terroristic organization on the planet. We fight the most wars (by far!) and we sell the most weapons (to democratic regimes and the most horrific dictatorships alike!)

The crimes of the US are general knowledge. The key is whether you buy our evil government's propaganda and rationales for committing our crimes.

For example, is it morally acceptable for US to overthrow a government? Was the US justified or wise in Carter's decision to fund Muslim fundamentalists in Afghanistan -- the same Muslim radicals that we have now been fighting for 15 years?

> "The greatest purveyor of violence in the world: My own government, I can not be silent." -- Martin Luther King Jr.