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Lao-tzu's Taoteching?
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16 reviews of this product found across Reddit:
My favorite translation is this one I really like the collected commentaries.
I do enjoy Red Pine's translation, so maybe you'll find enlightenment from his translation: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/1556592906/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_D007AGD6RAFP8ME3WS2Q
I'm currently reading his translation of diamond sutra and it is quite good. Good luck on your journey to find peace and your true nature🤞
I was going to suggest the same (the wiki). I don't know if this is the best translation to start with but the unique thing about it is that it has commentary from historical leaders of Chinese thought along with each chapter. What's nice about that isn't just the insight, it's seeing how wildly different some of the chapters are interpreted.
One guy will talk about how the chapter is a guide for meditation and another will talk about its utility for managing an army (or something like that, just made that example up. :) )
https://www.amazon.com/Lao-tzus-Taoteching-Lao-Tzu/dp/1556592906
The Taoteching
See this thread:
Robert Eno has translated Mencius with commentary, but AFAIK the source text is not provided. Or check out Bill Porter's (pen name: Red Pine / 赤松) Lao-tzu's Taoteching which has source text and commentary.
I was just talking to my friend about this.
Basically because Chinese is very different from English, classical Chinese even more so, and they try to do line by line translations instead of just explaining what it means...
On that note, even if a person is fluent in classical Chinese and English... are they Taoist? Like... A practicing Taoist...
Anyhow, what I was telling my friend is that I could write a chapter on just the first line...
道可道非恆道
Not because it's super confusing or mystical or anything. Just because classical Chinese (and Chinese in general) can pack a lot of information into a small amount of space.
Instead of translating it people should be unzipping it into English... so to speak. lol
That said! It's good to go through the translations. My current top two are...
Red Pine's translation because it has the original Chinese, some translation notes, and commentary to give you a variety of perspectives from historical figures.
And The Philosophical Translation because it gets DEEP into all of the vocabulary and gets precise with what the deal is with each chapter and why.
Oh! And perhaps my favorite of all... The Tao Speaks because it's so chill. :)
I think Tao De Ching by Red Pine is a good book to read too. I recently stumble upon a podcast on Spotify too from Dan Casas-Murray. https://open.spotify.com/show/5IyJnaFiFXIDIiWgNmGqxe?si=a46d6bd2a3cd42ce
That could be too! Lots of ways to interpret it. I like to recommend Red Pine's translation of the Tao Te Ching because it comes with commentary. You'll see a wide variety of interpretations for each chapter.
I don't think this chapter is a commentary on the illusion of self. For example it ends with "sages therefore wear coarse cloth and keep their jade concealed". It's basically saying to "look normal and keep your "secrets/skills" to hidden".
There's this concept of being "useless" so you can be natural that you'll find in Taoist texts. There's a story of this tree that grew in a way that made it useless for humans so they never cut it down. I think the "coarse clothes" are making sure you appear "useless" in the right moments BUT you have your jade inside in the event that you need to present your usefulness. :)
Again, just my view on it.
To be honest… I don't know that Taoists spend a whole lot of time on the "illusion of self" and instead focus on "original nature/self" or "natural self". That said, different strokes for different folks! If you feel like investigating the illusion of self definitely go for it! :)
I remember like this text "Who Am I?" for the illusion of self (and it's free and short) but there's lot of good info on the topic out there.
Who Am I?: https://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/teachings/instructions/
Red Pine Translation: https://www.amazon.com/Lao-tzus-Taoteching-Lao-Tzu/dp/1556592906
Man… that's a super broad question so I'm going to give it broad, and Taoist, answer.
The way you'd apply the philosophy to modern use is figuring out, for yourself, which (modern) texts make the most sense for you to study based on your personal goals.
What I'm basically saying is that a Taoist can't tell you what texts you should pick up. 😝 lol
That said, if you type "Tao of…" into Google you're bound to find a book, blog post, or something on the subject. I typed "Tao of Anarchism" into Google and ran into this:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/josh-anarchism-and-taoism
If you do that and continue down the rabbit holes of resources that the books/articles suggest you'll probably find everything you're looking for.
Check out the wiki for an extensive list of books on the subject of Taoism.
I'd recommend picking up the Red Pine translation of the Tao Te Ching. I think it'd be really interesting to you because it has commentary from ancient Chinese scholars along with each chapter. That will give you perspective from a lot of different angles (military strategists, politicians, artists, etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/Lao-tzus-Taoteching-Lao-Tzu/dp/1556592906
Let me recommend to you one of the most influential books in the world that is also very MGTOW:
Consider the classic Daodejing. There are many, many translations. My personal favorites are Liu Ming, Red Pine and Ellen Chen.
The red pine edition is excellent and has extended interpretations. https://www.amazon.com/Lao-tzus-Taoteching-Lao-Tzu/dp/1556592906
Hi and welcome. I'm not a religious Taoist, so I can't answer those specific questions.
> Is Taoism necessarily apolitical? I’m an anarchist communist, and while I’m interested in Taoism, I don’t think my political views are likely to change. In fact, my politics are part of why I’ve become attracted to Taoism, but it seems like that might be discouraged.
Not necessarily political one way or the other. I'm a market anarchist and I see the fluid movement and expression of society as the functioning of the Tao. To me, any kind of government is an ugly and violent imposition.
> What is meditation? What are you supposed to do? Are you supposed to gain anything from it, and if so, what?
Meditation is awareness. There are many forms of meditation practices. With some of them, you concentrate specifically on a thought, or sound, or feeling, or some "seed." With others, you reject grasping onto anything and maintain what Krishnamurti calls "choiceless awareness," picking up and letting go whatever is moving through your mind. Both of these (concentration and insight meditation), among others, are cultivated to allow one to see himself and into his own nature. Ostensibly, this is to support eliminating useless and destructive mental, emotional, and psychological habits and to reintegrate oneself back into the seamlessness of Reality, whereas in our typical lives, we reify our egos as real existing things and we separate ourselves from "the outside."
> Do you believe that humans have agency or free will?
There is no Taoist answer to this. To suggest that humans have agency is to suggest they are somehow outside the causal nexus, outside karma, outside the Tao. To suggest they are determined is to suggest that they are nothing but causes, nothing but karma, nothing but Tao. Both are problematic philosophical perspectives, and Taoism tends to eschew complex philosophy in appreciation for the subtle, mysterious, and feminine nature of Reality.
> Why are Taoists so concerned with longevity if they believe in an afterlife?
Taoists are interested in longevity because some of them believe in immortality of some kind, and others are interested in simply leading long, healthy lives. The practice of Qigong and Taichi do actually promote good health.
> Are Taoists moral relativists even if given the context of an ethical dilemma?
Not moral relativists - just unconcerned with morality. The Confucians and Mohists and other ancient Chinese philosophical schools were interested in justice and righteousness and all that. To the Taoists, this was all just mental frothing. Their ideas of right and wrong were products of their culture, biology, etc. and ideas don't map on to Reality. Another person in here mentioned virtue ethics - that's probably a better way to look at it. They held that there were better and worse ways to live, but not any hard-line "right" or "wrong" actions. To a contemporary Westerner, this might sound like moral relativism, but it's deeper than that - it's a rejection of the brain's ability to accurately conceptualize the nuance and complexity of everyday life. Applying moral labels to actions would stultify a person, limit them, and prevent them from acting in uncontrived and naturally spontaneous ways. I am sometimes reminded of Nietzsche's concept of being "beyond good and evil."
> I’m reading through the Tao Te Ching now. Is there a specific place on here or in real life where I should go to ask questions as I read?
Think about picking up Red Pine's version of the Tao Te Ching. He introduces lots of ancient and medieval Chinese commentary on each verse (and his own..) which really brings the context into subtle and mysterious things Lao-tzu says. It was very helpful for me.
I recommend Lao-Tzu's Taoteching by Red Pine multiple perspectives on each passage.
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