It's the article Why Women Had Better Sex Under Socialism by Kristen R. Ghodsee, which explains the reasons why women had better sex under socialism. She also wrote a book on this subject.
Norah Vincent interview for anyone who's curious. Skip to 9:25 if it doesn't do so automatically. The interview was about her experiences while writing "Self Made Man".
Why Men Earn More - The Startling Truth Behind The Pay Gap and What Women Can Do About It - Warren Farrell
ISBN - 0814472109
edit - I forgot a source for gender bias in education.
It was the late Christopher Hitchens who first taught me about the inhumanity of Mother Teresa, though I'd watched a lot of clips of his I haven't read his book, The Missionary Position.
What does it mean to be a wretched person? Maybe it means to be someone who feels no greater joy than watching another suffer unto death, just to feel the satisfaction of being there, when in all their desperation and without basic respite, accepting your religion on their deathbed.
By her own accounts she watched nearly 30,000 people come through her doors, and with broken empathy managed to convince them that their suffering only brought them closer to god. I'd like to know how anyone came to the conclusion that this woman was worthy more than anybody else of earning a Nobel peace prize.
Well, Mother Theresa is an expert on the subject. She left humans in her care to die in pain, denying them medical care and antibiotics. Her policies led to deaths from untreated injuries and diseases in the filthy, poorly managed hospices she ran (The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice https://www.amazon.com/Missionary-Position-Mother-Teresa-Practice/dp/1455523003/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1473084988&sr=8-1&keywords=hitchens+mother+teresa&linkCode=sl1&tag=chitch-20&linkId=58b39e60ab5d4a6a041d265dc54c8221)
Christopher Hitchins had quite a bit more to say about her; she cozied up to the Duvalier family who ran Haiti as a savage dictatorship for years and considered Charles Keating (disgraced savings and loan executive who bankrupted hundreds of elderly retirees when his pyramid S&L investment bank collapsed due to his greed and mismanagement) as her good friend.
She also opposed contraception and compared contraceptives to abortion, even though India women begged for them so they wouldn't be forced to give birth every year.
> I understand a frustration with rigid, societal gender roles.
OK, but please understand that that's not what gender identity is about.
Suppose we tell you, "We're going to transform your body to female, and that's how everybody is going to see and relate to you for the rest of your life. But don't worry! We're not saying you have to be feminine! You can be as masculine as a woman as you like! But you have to be a woman."
I don't think you'd be cool with that. Possibly a few people have a lot of built-in gender flexibility and could roll with that punch. A lot more people think they could handle it, but in reality probably could not - Nora Vincent thought she could, for example, and almost lost her mind, even though her change was only outward/social and not bodily.
Hummm...não tenho ideia, mas vou chutar do meio do campo.
Tem o caso de uma mulher lésbica que se disfarçou como homem e viveu 18 meses assim. Ela tem uns insights bem interessantes e inclusive teve uns dates com mulheres. Para ela, em termos de relacionamentos e sedução, o papel do homem é MUITO mais difícil que o da mulher. O homem precisa se provar e há todo um tipo de pressão para seduzir, enquanto que para a mulher o papel é muito mais simples.
Eu concordo em boa parte com isso. Atravessar uma sala e abordar uma mulher que você acha extremamente sexy e que tem um sorriso bonito e tal é extremamente difícil e aprender isso é um caminho longo e repleto de frustração. Por isso, por exemplo, que você vê muito nerd masculino virjão, e muito menos mulher na mesma situação, e por isso que pipocam tópicos do tipo "como chegar na crush" partindo de homens, e não de mulheres.
Ter sexo com frequência é muito mais fácil pra mulher, no final das contas, e acredito que um cara que é bi mas que é socialmente morto pode acabar "migrando" pro outro lado, talvez por ser mais fácil e se sentir mais realizado sendo desejado, seja da forma que for.
Como eu falei no início, é um chute do meio do campo e nada impede que eu tenha isolado a bola do estádio.
Bi and recently came out as trans. Though you might not be trans, it's absolutely possible. It's good to spend some time thinking about it and explore different identities. Even if you are cis it's good to educate yourself about the stories of others and different identity possiblies. The book "You and Your Gender Identity" by Dara Hoffman-fox helped me out a bunch in figuring it out, though I definitely new before..
regarding the non-penis portion of your post. there was a book by norah vincent called Self-Made Man: One Woman's Year Disguised as a Man. i haven't read the book, just norahs explanation of it. basically, she spent a year dressing and acting like a man. but, she had to quit because she became suicidal as a result of it. so, this isn't a thing for cis women. some may say they want to do it, but they really don't because they don't do it. and if they were to try it, they would wind up like norah.
the difference here is that you are expressing your desire that you are or might be a man for many reasons, and part of it is not feeling female. that's very different than saying you want to be a man for male privilege. i guess the point i am trying to say is, is that your feelings aren't equally comparable to cis women. try asking that question and ignoring the privilege part. would you arrive at the same conclusion?
One book that really resonated with me and my own experiences was Julia Serano's <em>Whipping Girl.</em> There's a lot of stuff that critiques feminism and talks about how masculinity and femininity are treated in society, but for you the most interesting parts will probably be her personal anecdotes. The most important thing you can take away from it is that everyone has a radically different experience.
When did your character realize they were transgender? When and how did they transition? How supportive or hostile was their environment, and how did they feel about themselves? Keep in mind that being transgender affects so many parts of your life, but in the end it is only one part of you. Trans people are people, just like everyone else, and we come in all different types and flavors. We can be introverts or extroverts, kind or cruel, insightful or oblivious, artists or accountants, saints or sinners. Figure out who your character is, who the playwright has written her as and how you are interpreting her, and then figure out how being a transwoman has shaped and influenced her. And after you've done that, I would go to your trans friends and ask if your interpretation has any unrealistic or offensive stereotypes. I can't imagine them being upset if you're sincere and coming from a place of respect. And if you don't feel comfortable, you can always ask reddit.
Anyone who enjoyed this talk will be delighted to hear that Cordelia has a book out called Delusions of Gender, which is excellent and, redundantly, has made a lot of men very upset.
The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice
Is a great book by - Christopher Hitchens
This book really helped me a lot, but as a beginning step you can give some time to brainstorming or looking up things you’d like to try and then trying them. I started with shaving my legs (which felt incredible even though I cut them up something fierce) and buying some long socks. I moved on to buying some jewelry and dresses, then clean-shaving my face, and have loved every step (just bought a skirt, some sports bras, unisex converse shoes, and a few cute tops). Of course what you do will change depending on what you’re looking for and what you’re interested in.
I’d also recommend a gender therapist if you don’t have one yet because having someone to talk to who can help you sort your thoughts and give an experienced outside perspective is amazing.
Good luck! We’re all rooting for you to find yourself whoever that may be ☺️
(copy and pasted my answer from another question much like your own, I feel like this was good enough to say again)
Here's what helped me when I asked that question.
I think that may help. If you need further help on the subject, I would consider seeing a therapist who is knowledgeable in trans related issues. Also, if you don't want to go quite that far may I sugest a book that is currently helping me sort this stuff out. I'll post the link to the Amazon site, but you can get it other places. It's called "You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery" by Dara Hoffman-Fox. They are a non-binary gender therapist working out of Colorado and also doing YouTube videos on the subject. I highly recommend watching a few. Again they were a big help.
Amazon link to book-https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1510723056/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Here's the Amazon link. It is illuminating reading. I'm not saying I agree with everything she had to say, but I will say that as a man, it was stunningly refreshing to see someone else acknowledging that male life has entire classes of difficulties that aren't even on most women's radar.
King, Warrior, Magician, Lover
It talks about the 4 archetypes of masculinity, the importance of rituals from boyhood to manhood, and the immature versions of each masculine archetype during the two stages ( boyhood and manhood ).
The main take away is that "in the present crisis in masculinity we do not need, as some feminists are saying, less masculine power. We need more masculine power. But we need more of the mature masculine." The end result is that build up these archetypes in ourselves.
It helped support my individuality and how to overcome some of my insecurities. Some being understanding that as much as I like boxing I'm considerate enough to not punch as hard as I could ( Warrior and Magician ) to silly things like being okay to order fruity drinks ( Lover ).
There's tons more in the book for its size. It's my number 1 recommendation every time.
Constitutional. Chad's just going to catch a dozen STDs and die in a bar fight before he's 30, like the Bourbons did.
I'd be happiest with a system that was close to the US, but with a king instead of a president and a bit more decentralization of power. But I think that even a crowned republic is better than an uncrowned one; Jung believed implicitly, Lewis explicitly, that a country is happiest with a king.
She was a monster. She fetishized suffering, and was the cause of so much of it that it's unfortunate that there's no hell for her to suffer in. Although she probably would love it.
The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice by Christopher Hitchens
Everyone has issues in their lives on multiple fronts. Trans men have issues around being biologically female, being trans, AND being men. Since they experience discrimination because they are men, they need to be included in men's rights. Not only that, but since they have lived experiences as both female and male they can be powerful allies in the quest for gender equality. Norah Vincent's book about going undercover as a man for 18 months is a great read. I've read similar much shorter stories from trans men that give a unique perspective on male/female experience that most people never get.
Yup, read it all (fellow rambler here).
You bring up a lot of interesting points that definitely warrant a deeper look. Some of them resonate with me, but I’m still early in my questioning journey, so I can’t help with what they mean. I can however recommend a resource: https://smile.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056
There's no ultimate test - you have to go through the introspection work and come to peace with yourself. I can recommend a book that's helping me (I've been questioning for a month now): https://smile.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/
I'm currently going through gender questioning at 46, and I've read of others doing so in their 60's, so you're not alone. I found this book to be very helpful:
Naturally, we can't tell you which you are, and I'm afraid I don't know the right questions to ask myself. Talking with a gender therapist would be excellent, and I found a lot of value in this book: https://smile.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/
I'm still in the questioning phase myself (and at 46). So far, I've figured out I'm not the male I was assigned at birth, but what I am is still on the other side of introspection and investigation.
I wish you the best of luck on your journey.
Congratulations on sharing all this, I know it's hard.
No one but you can figure out who you are, but you don't sound like you're faking it (a very common concern). "Always knew" is the most well-known story, but not the most common story. Working with a therapist, especially a gender therapist, is recommended. I personally got a lot of value of working through this book: https://smile.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/
*hugs* and good luck on your journey!
> wave of guilt and shame (all directed inwardly
> recommendations of useful sources, blogs, books, articles, etc. that maybe helped them come to terms with their identities
A book I found super useful to reassure me that internalised guilt and shame were mainstream, what the origins and causes were, etc, was: Julia Serano "Whipping Girl: A Transsexual Woman on Sexism and the Scapegoating of Femininity", second edition, 2016.
Hope this might be useful for you!
There's a great book about "growing up with an immature mentality". It was written in the 70s and still so relevant: https://www.amazon.fr/King-Warrior-Magician-Lover-Rediscovering/dp/0062506064. Let me know if you'd like a TL;DR :-)
Such as hours worked, pay rises, promotions, agreeableness, hard work, maternity leave etc.
That delves into the reason why which eliminates the pay gap
He didn't try to rape them at all. The women were making it up. Stop believing what your feminist allies tell you to believe. You only view this place as sexist because it doesn't go along with your narrative
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that women are more likely to take time off which is a variable
It is. Your mental gymnastics aren't going to work here
> Which opportunities does she have specifically because she is a woman
OP really does have a lot of opportunities as a 23 year old woman, even if she's only a 5/10, she has opportunities. She really just has to omit her law degree from her applications, and I'm pretty sure she'll get something.
> I would swap my life as a woman anytime against that of a man. I would not have been raped, I would not have people shoving me their biases in the face everywhere I go online,
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. If you really want to know what life is like as a man from a woman's perspective, then read this book. "Self-Made Man: One Woman's Year Disguised as a Man." She finds out pretty quickly that being a man sucks.
When I am around men? Almost never. When there are no men  around? Plenty of times.
> what is the best way for me to respond to his tears? how can i best comfort and support him without making him feel emasculated or weak?
Hold him when he cries. Don't say anything .
What can cause me to cry? There are movies and passages in books (an example of a book that can reduce me to tears is "Self Made Man").
I don't know about your guy , but as I was growing up, crying was a total failure of masculinity. Even my girlfriends would beat the shit out of me.
1 - Other than myself, and I don't always consider myself one despite chromosomes, hormones and genitals.
2 - Other than something like "I love you" or "it is OK, I love you."
3 - I am probably your dad's age, if not older than your dad. Fuck you, my beard is grayer than his.
None of this is happening in a vacuum, and actions have reactions. You're behind the curve. There's already a book about it. http://www.amazon.com/Men-Strike-Boycotting-Marriage-Fatherhood/dp/1594037620
One thought experiment: Can you imagine yourself enjoying being perceived as masculine throughout life (as an older dude, as a married dad kinda dude if you wish to have children?)
Second thought experiment: Ask yourself, "Do I want to feel like a masculine person / man? Or do I want to BE a masculine person / man?" If you woke up tomorrow with masculine traits, would you be truly happy?
I also recommend reading this book - it can help a lot.
My source is that I made it the f*ck up!
And for real, it's my reflection on "Will to change: On men, masculinity and love" by bell hooks.
I'm the same way. Just the other day I was telling my therapist ... "I don't want to be a MAN. But I want to be a boy person." I have dysphoria, and work to build my physique to me masculine (shoulders) but I don't want body hair. I am just going to socially transition. It's ok to land where you feel most comfortable. There's a great book called You and Your Gender Identity - it has helped me and might help you.
Take your time. You have all the time in the world to explore your identity. There's a great book - You and Your Gender Identity - I highly recommend it for sorting through your feelings.
I too am AFAB and historically more "straight" than lesbian which made my youth in the 90s mad confusing. Upon discovering I am transmasc, I think in my head that I'm a gay man without the parts which reassures me.
Don't feel pressured to move quickly with physical changes. It's good to remember that you can have different levels of satisfaction with your gender alone, in public, and with a lover. FTM trans folks on Reddit would have you think we all go on T immediately and get top surgery ASAP but that isn't so. Plenty of us don't. Plenty of us identify as simply non-binary or genderqueer or butch and make a life from presenting in a way that validates us.
I am still early in the process. I changed my work pronouns to she/them which made me feel great and in certain circles I am going my "M" instead of my full name. You are allowed to try things out. You are allowed to discard what doesn't feel good. There is no timeline. You have all the time in the world to explore. In the end, what makes your feel good is the winning thing. Do not let anyone else dictate your transition or lack of transition. 👍
Hitchens noted in his evaluation of Mother Theresa that after her, they did away with "Devils Advocate" and this process is pretty much just marketing.
Attending a group can be so helpful and powerful. I know it's really scary but the first time I met another trans person like me I just felt so validated and so strong. The queer community has been through hell - and because of that (by and large) everyone is EXTRA welcoming because they know what it's like to feel exactly what you're feeling - like you don't belong. Like a freak. Like you can't believe your own feelings. The first step is going. If you never go, it may take longer to meet her. The her inside of you. 💗✨ Don't feel the need to dress up or look a certain way. You can wear a Tshirt and sweats. That's ok! You can always chicken out and say you're an ally to a friend / kid / partner you know. The trans community loves meeting supportive allies at these groups too. That excuse can be your "escape hatch" in case you are too scared to be your authentic self just yet. Take it slow. One step at a time. I believe in you!
There's a great book my therapist has me working through called (You and Your Gender Identity)[https://www.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/ref=asc_df_1510723056/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312669563714&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1402936495886127703&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvd...] - I got it through my library Hoopla app for free. Please take a look. It is SO validating. There are loads of humans in the world just like you. You aren't crazy and you aren't alone.
Your Gender Identity Guide could be helpful. Take your time thinking about it. In the mean time, you can just say you're a gnc bisexual/pansexual.
Here's some subreddits you can hang out in.
>why aren’t they reaching out to each other
'cause that's gay sis and the privileges given to you by being a man can be revoked at a moment's notice, leaving you in a state of total social isolation and ridicule targeted at the very terms by which one has identified themselves. boys exist in this weird state where we're all holding a gun to each other's head waiting for a boy to blink and admit to having feelings, at which point everybody pulls the trigger. the reality that i have observed (please take what i say as anecdote, i am too inebriated to be up in my science tonight sis) is that boys actually then begin sharing and become healthier for it, but the real fear of being a man is that you're going to be excommunicated from the mancave collective for showing unmanly behaviour.
i often think that i lucked out in being queer myself because it sort of forcibly ejects most of us from the man matrix, so you can see this performance bullshit for what it is. even then, you got gay boys desperately clinging to toxic masculinity, insisting "i'm gay but i'm not a f*ggot," "lisping queers hold us all back," whatever other dumbass dave ruben bullshit these bottoms do be on, but that's a loud minority and tbh they just seem kinda sad. like -- you want to slide in and be like, hey man, it's ok, you can cry, you can admit you're scared, you can experience the whole spectrum of the human condition; your dad's gonna disown you anyway so you might as well take some good with the bad, y'know?
this is what my babe bell hooks (love her) was on about in the will to change, a banger i 100% recommend to anybody and everybody.
There's a great book called ("You and Your Gender Identity")[https://www.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/ref=asc_df_1510723056/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312669563714&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6999945808775578435&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvd...] - def look it up at your library. It's helped me to determine the level at which my dysphoria sits. There are all kinds of questions to assist you in shaping your true thoughts about your gender. My therapist recommended it and it's helped me so much.
People will treat you how you expect to be treated. The first thing to do is to make the decision that NO MATTER WHAT you will treat yourself well and expect others to treat you well because as a human being you have inherent worth
Get a copy of the book 'why men marry some women and not others' by Molloy, it's GENIUS. As guy I can say his research is 100% solid, spot on, take it to the bank.
So what if you can't rely on looks as much as other girls, that's not disqualifying by any means. Do what you can with what you have - waist to hip ratio of .7, a bit of makeup, long hairstyle, clothes. MAkeover book. Any girlfriends who are true friends? If none, find some by BEING a friend and do for them what you wish one would do for you - coach you through the makeover process to do what you can with what you have.
yoga is fabulous for improving body confidence; if you can move well and inhabit your body it does something makeup can't.
read this book to understand men:
then... Go where the guys are - learn a hobby that's male dominated and get active in it. Just do it to socialize without expectations. There are shy lonely guys everywhere but you have to know where to look. once you're there, just be pleasant and interesting and interested. Guys are gunshy about marriage because they see how entitled and manipulative women can be and the deck is stacked against men in some ways. MGTOWs exist for some strong reasons. Be different from the women who have influenced that trend.
80% of long term compatibility is personality, capitalize on your personality strengths. Get the book Fascinating Womanhood if you want to know how to stay married.
> Would be good to start with reading the full sentence in context
I did. my comments stand. Even in the context of the suggestion, all one has to do is google "Bell Hooks Patriarchy book" and the first result will get an excellent introductory book about how patriarchy is perpetuated and what men can do to forestall that perpetuation. You dismissed the suggestion based on the original suggester's comments prior to the suggestion. You dismissed the suggestion not based on Hook's arguments, which you are ignorant of, but based on the commentor's own theories, which are unrelated to Hook's.
I just have a personal bugaboo about people offering opinions on works that they have never consumed. if you have read Hooks, and disagree with their views, then that's great. But, you have "not read neither Hooks nor Butler" and you say you will never do so. So, basically, your opinion on them is worthless.
No actually, I do have a problem with saying “any group” is better at x, y, and z. Unless it’s a specialized thing, like “doctors are better at surgery”.
Nobody should be judged in things they cannot control. Physical features, race, gender, etc. To say one of these categories effects your cognitive abilities is idiotic.
That being said, it’s also idiotic not to realize systemic and societal sexism exists.
Some reading, if you are up for it. You could also find PDFs online.
Invisible Women by Carolina Criado Perez
The Will To Change by Bell Hooks
Bell Hooks in particular is a tougher read but more thorough. She mentions how the patriarchal oppression heavily effects men as well and how they perceive their own roles/individualism in society.
It’s not a choice to be born male in a misogynistic society, just like it’s not a choice to be born female. But you do have a choice when it comes to how you act, how you educate yourself to womens issues, how much empathy you have, etc.
If everyone worked even a little bit to help bring equality to the world, within generations it could be done. I don’t expect men to go out playing white knight or cater to women in the least. But I expect the willingness to learn how one may be perpetuating misogyny, even subconsciously.
If you are open to it, I recommend Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez or The Will To Change by Bell Hooks.
Hooks is a heavy author but she’s wonderful. She also speaks deeply upon the issues that men face in a patriarchy and the unfair circumstances in which both genders are put in because of it.
Actually, feminists do address them. Acclaimed feminist Bell Hooks has an entire book on how misogyny and violence against women impacts men, their perception of themselves and their relationships.
The male victims of abuse you talk about are collateral victims of a system designed to oppress women. If you really cared about them you would be seeking to tear down said system instead of using their suffering and trauma as a gotcha in a Reddit comment section. If you are one of them and you genuinely believe that the indifference society has towards male victims of violence has nothing to do with the fact this same society specifically designed victimhood as a natural experience of womanhood then my advice is the same: the book I linked does a nice job explaining all of this, how it works and most importantly, how to stop it.
i think a lot of us were in your exact position once. lots of trans people don't have a lifelong, clear, unerring identification with a different gender. something recommended to me when i started my journey was https://www.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056 , and i found it quite helpful for getting the juices flowing and figuring out what i wanted to explore next.
for me, even before i dove deep into exploration, knowing what i wasn't was helpful. knowing i didn't feel like my assigned gender meant something even before i knew what my goals or 'final' identity were. my best advice, if you want it, >!is to take your time and enjoy the process, if you can. !<
Sorry you’re having a rough go 💞
If your therapist is following WPATH standards of care (which is the global guideline), she has a responsibility to make sure your other diagnoses are well managed / stable, and that none of your other diagnoses are affecting your desires or judgment.
WPATH version 8 is still under construction, but version 7 says: “The presence of co-existing mental health concerns does not necessarily preclude possible changes in gender role or access to feminizing/masculinizing hormones or surgery; rather, these concerns need to be optimally managed prior to or concurrent with treatment of gender dysphoria.”
Your therapist may not realize how common it is for trans folk to have very little memory of their childhood, because so many dissociate to survive. Even if she IS aware, past trauma could cause the same dissociation and missing childhood memories, and she may be looking under that rock just to be sure there isn’t “something else” driving your needs.
As for deadnaming, if it’s the name on your file (which is usually the case because of insurance), she may have looked at the file to remember what your name was, and thereby gotten it wrong.
All uncomfortable and unfun, but within reason for someone with sincere positive intentions.
If you are open to it, it might be beneficial to fill out the workbook in this book: https://www.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056
It does a very good job of walking you through what you are looking for and why it’s important to you, and you can fill it out in the safety of your own space. The book acknowledges how common it is for trans folk to have sparse memories of childhood. If you fill out the workbook, you could then share the results with your therapist to help move the process forward more quickly.
Sending hugs 💞
check out this book: https://www.amazon.com/Will-Change-Men-Masculinity-Love/dp/0743456084
I think you'd find it very beneficial and maybe life changing. I recommend this book to many young and middle aged men.
>Feminism is rather specifically about resolving inequity, isn't it?
Yes, but inequity affects everyone in different ways for different reasons.
>I'm not terribly knowledgeable on on feminist takes on trans asks, but I had sort of put gender reassignment treatment (paid for by health insurance) more in the bucket of LGBTQ+ asks and assumed feminists as a whole might not have a strong or unified position here. Is that correct or am I off base?
Well first I'm a woman, so I don't see why Feminism wouldn't apply to me. Transgender isn't my gender. It's just an adjective that describes my gender. There is also a good book you can check out called Whipping Girl written by Julia Serano that talks about Feminism from a trans woman's perspective.
Also, are you familiar with the concept of Intersectional Feminism?
I’m exhausted. I don’t think men should feel guilty. They have been harmed extensively for eons by a model of masculinity that asks them to deny critical parts of human experience. It’s not our fault as men, but it is our work to learn and be creative and embrace our full humanity. It will be hard, the world is not nice to people who do things differently but I think it can be done. And I beg of you read bell hooks’ The Will to Change
It's not just social media. Academics and journalists are talking about this. Men can't be forced to marry at gun point now, marriage is so poisoned for them. Doesn't matter anyway, western women don't need men, it's all good. Here is some reliable subject matter.
Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage, Fatherhood, and the American Dream - and Why It Matters https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1594037620/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_A4B7GDTYFSPRT23AC954
If you’re interested in the science of it, I highly recommend the book Delusions of Gender. It’s an excellent breakdown about how the “science” behind those assumptions is deeply flawed and doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
I highly highly highly recommend reading a book by bell hooks called “The Will to Change” which more or less explores this topic from a feminist perspective. It also critiques a lot of radical feminist ideology and the way traditional feminists have responded to men and their emotions. It’s a good read but it’s incredibly hard to get thought the beginning as she talks about her brother whom she remembers being taught by their abusive father to not show emotions, seeing him enter teenage years convinced he shouldn’t show them whatsoever.
I read this book before my son was born and it was exactly what I needed: The Will to Change - by bell hooks
Full disclosure, this book uses the word “patriarchy” every other sentence. If that’s not your vibe, then that’s cool.
Learned a lot about how we raise boys and why. I suggest to anyone.
While not quite a book, the /r/MensLib subreddit is very wholesome and I support it. It's *chef's kiss".
Also it occurred to me you may be interested in this book - The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks.
Go to youtube. Warch some Dr Z phd videos. Particularly this one. https://youtu.be/0MXYWAdw7O8
And get the book "You and Your Gender Identity" by Dara Hoffman Foxx Lotsa stuff there to help u figure it out. They have some utubes also You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery https://www.amazon.com/dp/1510723056/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_ZVBPQQ754V3D3NP0X7CR
Men be getting fucked over, women be getting fucked over. Everyone gets fucked over by ideals imposed on them in some way, I don't think it's a competition. Warped hyper-masculinity has negative effects on men and women, calling everything you see toxic masculinity is just as counterproductive. I'm going off topic but perceptions and views of what masculinity is in the West and other countries have gotten really weird lately and lead to a lot of negative side effects for both genders, this is a good book that tries to make sense of the "ideal" masculine: https://www.amazon.com/King-Warrior-Magician-Lover-Rediscovering/dp/0062506064
And it helped me a lot with getting the brainrot out of my head and putting masculine gender issues and ideas of masculinity and how they relate to the world into perspective. Important to explore new ideas of what the ideal masculine might mean and helps understand what masculinity is to everyone else in the world. Interesting tings
I'd recommend a copy of this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?adgrpid=66845884271&gclid=CjwKCAiApfeQBhAUEiwA7K_UH5HjNBz28o51kpSpU__r4PnQTcw8ps9Oc4-qsSvICCpS4hLPPFwOMBoCkYEQAvD_BwE&hvadid=320662008412&hvdev=m&... It's helped me and many other trans people a great deal.
Some people won't like that there are high standards for finding our place in society for each gender. Thing is, when you do live up to them, you flourish. This book summarized things really well for me:
King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062506064/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_FHNHFANKTYPXAJXA5FM2
I think this might have blown up because the majority of us want there to be equality, love and goodwill between gender and sexes, despite what the talking heads and polls say.
I think a lot of women in this and the last generation have had a real disconnect with their fathers. There is a huge hole in there minds and hearts about what it means to be a "strong" man and get strong male support. Men need to develop more paternal and kingly values and behaviors and set better examples to combat true toxic masculinity and underdeveloped childish masculinity.
The issue is of course the "nice guy" stigma that can often get attached to it. Good men need to balance those forces better. Being a nice guy with an edge. Mastering the energy of the bad boy that attracts females without the actual maladaptive traits that too often come with an alpha type males.
There is a great book called "King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Rediscovering the Archetypes of Mature Masculine." I think it should be required reading for men globally. It helps men to understand the dimensions of the masculine self and how one goes both right and wrong in manifesting those energies.
Familiar with Norah Vincent's "Self Made Man?"
It's exactly that.
She's a lesbian and was a feminist who thought men have it great and that rednecks are awful, insular bigots. So she dressed as a man (quite convincingly, she's a tall, broad-shouldered woman and really put the effort into it, taking vocal lessons to speak in a masculine manner, using finely-shaved wool applied by a makeup artist to give herself stubble, and getting custom-tailored clothing to hide her already modest feminine features) and joined a bowling club in a small town for a year. She set up and went on first dates with something like 30 women in the same time frame, too.
Turned out that dating as a man sucked, the rednecks that she held in such low regard welcomed her in and mentored her, even though they thought she was a gay guy the whole time, and that pretty much all of her stock-photo opinions were exactly opposite reality.
Physical differences between gendered brains are not as clear cut as they are made out to be. Read Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. Really dives into the science and the methodology behind the studies that "found" a difference.
Amazon link for your convenience :))))
You can stop at the number after /dp/. Everything beyond that is superfluous and is used to track link sharing back to your account.
Will get people to the same place, but it's much cleaner and without the tracking links.
It's frustrating, because it's hard to explain to somebody who hasn't experienced it.
I mean, if somebody transitioned her to male against her will, I doubt she'd say "well, this doesn't bother me, I'll just be a feminine male". Yet she might imagine she could do that.
There was a book by a butch lesbian who attempted it as an experiment, and needed therapy afterward: Self-Made Man.
Flipping or splitting is not growth. Some people "snap" between opposites but that's just your suppressed archetype trying to assert itself. I recommend this book, though it is a little bit dated. Your childhood archetypes are rebelling, which is natural. Now it's time to start forming adult archetypes.
Glad some of these resonated with you! I highly recommend her writings but I will warn you she is a feminist and will often use phrases such as "patriarchy" through her work. Hopefully that isn't too much of an issue because her words are very moving for me.
The book all these quotes are from is The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love
Thank you for the response! :D
bell hooks wrote this(among other amazing works) incredible book that I have seen referenced in here often, "The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love" link here: https://www.amazon.com/Will-Change-Men-Masculinity-Love/dp/0743456084/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+will+to+change+bell+hooks&qid=1639589658&sr=8-1 I'm really hit hard by this. I read so much bell hooks in undergrad. This is quite the loss.
>If only we could be communist and prosper >Like in the USSR
A superpower that vastly improved people's lives over preexisting tsarism and fascism.
A superpower able to build and grow at a rate that it will soon surpass the US. It also uses its ability to improve the lives of its citizens and combat poverty to the point a large majority of its citizens approve of their government.
Despite being the victim of Imperialism for decades its opposition can't even win an election.
A people who liberated themselves from Imperialism and dictatorship to find successful self determination under economic siege.
>Or 70s Hungary
Don't know much about this one so maybe you have me there.
>Or North Korea
When the ussr was still around they were the better Korea. Currently starved of resources by economic warfare.
>Or east Germany
>But seriously, how tf is communism being seriously considered all of a sudden?
People who work for a living desire liberation in a society that openly opresses their economic class.
[sorry if this is just a vent post and you weren't looking for answers, i have a very hard time telling whether questions are rhetorical or not]
> I just want to be a girl, why am I hated so much? It's so illogical. I am not hurting anyone. I don't demand anything from anyone. I just want to be myself.
as a trans girl, just being yourself is an attack on the cishetero patriarchy.
this is a good thing. it's something to be proud of. but it's not easy to deal with.
transmisogyny is fundamental to the maintenance of colonial gender constructs, and therefore, the 'nuclear family' insofar as it exists in the popular imagination as a real thing. the existence of trans women, like that of intersex people and trans men, is an affront to the idea that men and women are and should be fundamentally separate and serve separate roles. unique to transfeminine people though, is the way we spit in the face of the idea of men being better than women, through the rejection of our alleged masculine birthright.
basically, people need to hate us and scapegoat us and torment us in order to maintain the illusion that their worldview is coherent. this book is an excellent primer and i consider it essential, but an extremely abbreviated 1-page tl;dr summary is available here. if you have q's i'm happy to answer in this thread or in DMs to the best of my ability.
It's not a biological thing (also why feminists have been trying to replace that particular slogan. Well except TERFs, they really believe in that one). It's a life experience thing.
For example, if I, as a man, said "Well catcalling ain't all that bad! They're just complimenting you!" I, of course, would have no fucking idea what I'm talking about, because it never happened to me. And even if it did, I wouldn't be in as much danger as a woman would, because if a 5'5'' tiny man came out of that car to beat my ass after I told him to go fuck himself, I could probably defend myself, a woman can't. So that's the baseline.
So when a woman says "Life as a man isn't so tough, we have it way worse!" while men get murdered at triple their rate and kill themselves at double, maybe they have no fucking idea how hard it is. So if they don't have a dick, maybe they shouldn't comment or advocate for me, I can do it myself thank you very much.
Plus every feminist (that I know) that said "pffft men have it easy, I'll prove it!" changed their minds. From the girl who produced "The Red Pill" to the one who lived her life as a man for a year and a half just to "try it out". (https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/dp/0143038702)
Because, it turns out, life as a man isn't as easy as it seems! It's not like we didn't have years of data to prove it, but ya know...
Remember the book I suggested for you? There is the link again...
That some/a lot/any women follow this content is a weak defense of the content. I'd argue many of the others referenced are different points on the same slope for their perpetuation of views.
Try to go deeper in understanding this stuff if you want to get out of your cycles. Don't let what's popular by any third party -- including any of us -- dictate your own assessments. But actually make your own assessments. Don't play ostrich and be passive. You can't.
It is 100% okay to enjoy lower brow, high brow, black, blue -- pretty much any -- humor.
Where lines gets drawn, however, is if something passes your own personal inbounds/out-of-bounds limits. Where are your thresholds? Did you set them yourself? Or were they assigned to you and you went along with it? How aware of them are you?
You gotta not be passive in your life if you want to grow.
That's what UnPleasantStuff is asking is:
> "Steven...are you saying this [A New Untold Story] quote is inbounds for you? And if inbounds, why do you think it is healthy for you or not?"
That's the question on the table: What's your take on A New Untold Story's editorial policies? And how do you think those policies support or hinder you?
i’m also a trans exmo and i feel your pain, though on the opposite side of the spectrum. the childhood memories that come up for me are things like playing outside with my shirt off, always being the dad or the brother in games at recess/friend’s houses, having boyish interests (video games, climbing trees, skateboarding) - all things that my parents (especially my mom) scolded me for. i’m not out yet, and it’s been hard to even stay out to myself. i go back and forth all the time because, like you, i have a lot of shame and guilt built up inside me. i’ve been working through a really great workbook by a gender therapist. you might wanna check it out. it’s helped me a lot with organizing my thoughts and identifying & dealing with the shame i was taught to feel growing up. i’ll leave a link at the end of this comment. i hope things get better for the both of us, and please remember, from your trans brother, you’re not alone. 💖 here’s that link: https://www.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=28HFRWKVANJS5&keywords=gender+workbook&qid=1636580344&sprefix=gender+workbook%2Caps%2C99&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkU...
Working with a gender therapist is widely recommended, and I'll throw in my experiences.
In addition to Thrilledwfrills' comments, one of the main benefits is the knowledge and experience a therapist has with gender journeys. They can help point out things that are common so you don't feel alone; they can point out perspectives that have been useful for other clients (this in particular really helped me).
I've been lucky to work with a really good gender therapist, and am fortunate that I can afford it. If finding a good therapist or affording it is a problem, one thing that might help is resources put out by gender therapists. There are several that have YouTube channels, and I recommend this book: You and Your Gender Identity
Jumping onto the book recommendations bandwagon...
King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette
My psychologist had me read this at the beginning of our time together. The primary takeaway is an understanding that there are are mature, overactive-immature, and shadow-immature ways of expressing each of the four parts of your personality.
In my experience, when people make statements like your mom's made, about hating all men, they hate when men act in immature ways, but they're also failing to realize that there are mature ways for men to express ALL parts of their personality.
This book offers mentorship/self-help for men without misogyny.
King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062506064/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_KQ39DZ37QRHT560Y5BV3
There's a book :
Theres alot of references on why men are opting out of traditional roles.
As the per 80/20 rule, I understand it's a theory and not exact science. But I don't see why it's incel shit when we see Parretos principle exaggerated on social media and dating sites. We can agree to a disagree here. Everything else still stands.
Honestly the only way to do this is people who have either transitioned or done a long term impersonation.
And both of those things have been done. There was the butch lesbian who pretended to be a man for like a year, joined a bowling team, tried to pick up women etc. Very illuminating: https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/dp/0143038702
The other that stuck out for me was an ftm person who said that on testosterone he suddenly gained the ability to compartmentalize. Like, even when a close family member died, he could put those feelings in a box and play basketball with his mates for an hour and then come back to it. As a woman he couldn't do that at all. I found this utterly fascinating too.
Very similar boat here. My egg cracked in April, and over the last 5 months, I've at least figured out that I'm definitely not a cis male.
I can't define myself by what I am not. So what am I?
First, I'll recommend this book, which was very helpful to me, and I should review it again:
You and Your Gender Identity, by Dara Hoffman-Fox
Second, something to watch out for:
Early on, I figured "If I'm not a cis man, I'm a trans woman, right?" and had a lot of preconceived notions of what that meant. My partner noticed that I seemed to be struggling to squeeze myself into facets that didn't necessarily seem to fit. I've found more peace with trying on different gender attributes and behaviors, and letting that lead me to what my gender identity should be.
I can almost guarantee that patience will be necessary. I will also highly recommend working with a gender-specialized therapist if that's an option for you. I wish you the best of luck in your gender journey. <3
It really breaks down everything about gender and even though I was already in gender therapy (with a therapist trained to work with trans people), I found it really helpful for really figuring out every aspect of my gender.
There also may be gender therapists in your area that are specifically trained in helping people who are questioning their gender. You could try psychologytoday.com to see if there's anyone in your area that might be a better fit for you. fwiw, my therapist told me he didn't have substantial experience treating cptsd/did, and offered me a referral, but I ended up sticking with him and he's really good at it - it might be worth it to stick with your current therapist and see how they do with helping you figure things out, but it's really up to you. They might also be able to give you a referral to a local therapist who might be better suited to your needs, if you share your concerns with them.
>Or am I not really trans bc im scared of how medical transitions could change me?
It's really common to be afraid of medical transition options or to not want them at all! I know, without a doubt, that I'm a man, but until recently I was really set on not medically transitioning at all. The only reason I've started T recently was to treat my PCOS, and I still have no plans to have any surgeries. I know other people who have gotten therapy specifically to help decide if T is right for them or to help with surgery fears (including concerns that it might not be the right choice for them).
Even after I left the Catholic Church and religion all together I still held a kind of reverence for Mother Teresa. Learning the truth about her - and knowing how deceived most ppl still are - is still beyond disturbing. I’m looking forward to this podcast, ty. Hitchen’s book, The Missionary Positionis insightful, harsh, and angry… highly recommend!
I started it last night.
She addresses the most common concerns of men, such as fear of intimacy and loss of their patriarchal place in society, in new and challenging ways. She believes men can find the way to spiritual unity by getting back in touch with the emotionally open part of themselves—and lay claim to the rich and rewarding inner lives that have historically been the exclusive province of women. A brave and astonishing work, The Will to Change is designed to help men reclaim the best part of themselves.
i understand. it is possible to come out as "exploring my gender identity"... trying to approach it as needing support from family to allow you to explore how you feel, without having to nail down a description of exactly what you feel just now. also i found a really helpful book for exploring your gender is:: https://www.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/ref=nodl_
There is an interesting book called Self-Made Man by Norah Vincent in which she lives a year as a man socially. She did ask those things described above. 6 months into it, she has a nervous breakdown and was admitted into an inpatient psych unit. She concluded her experiment. Her conclusion was that she was in fact a woman irregardless off how society viewed her.
Self-Made Man: One Woman's Year Disguised as a Man https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143038702/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_SV8S6X25AYD3HM579W7A
Nature by itself isn't necessarily virtuous ; and I'd like to see more evidence for the biological wiring you speak of. Especially see there's been a long history of attempting to essentialise socially constructed differences in terms of biology in order to put it beyond critique. See Cordelia Fine's https://www.amazon.ca/Delusions-Gender-Society-Neurosexism-Difference/dp/0393340244/ref=asc_df_0393340244/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292967644263&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15142238553942091415&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061009&hvtargid=pla-333448569315&psc=1 for a critique of the tendency to attribute the impact of social processes to biology instead.
Further, we have a long history of basically acting to override even known natural differences / disadvantages through social (dis)incentives and science and technology , and there is an active strain of feminism that seeks to use technology and society to override any disadvantages women are put at because of how biology operates in a given social context (xenofeminism).
The funny thing is that there's a book, written by a woman, which says that women had better sex under socialism because they felt more comfortable due to how prevalent feminist propaganda was under communism.
The funny thing is that there's a book, written by a woman, which says that women had better sex under socialism because they felt more comfortable due to how prevalent feminist propaganda was under communism.
You know, we all often struggle with this. Its well known and called trans doubt. Theres a great gender therapist on youtube who has lots of wonderful videos and, of course, one on this. Maybe that or others will help. https://youtu.be/orXvIVaI7EU
Also Dara Hoffmann Fox. Her videos on youtube and her wonderful book. "You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery" https://www.amazon.com/dp/1510723056/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_NH1FFVXMQ54TDH240HQQ
Sociology is the study of society and social relations. That means insstitutions and economic models. And if you read my other comments i know that socialism wont erase these issues. Thats childs play. Capitalism is not money. Its privat3 ownership of means of production(factories, and offices and farms). Private property. Property made to make money. So land lords and buisnesses are capitalism. Soviet socialism had actually alleviated some gender issues under Khrushchev. Did you know Soviet union is one of the countries that legalized abortion in 1920s. Also societ union haf free childcare, and paid maternal leave. Also womrn had better sex under socialism. https://www.amazon.com/Women-Have-Better-Under-Socialism/dp/1568588909
There are faults when it comes to gender under soviet union trust me. But there are socialist nations that did a lot for women like Burkina faso under thomas sankara and bolivia under evo morales.
Also the human nature argument. Many things are human nature. Including collectiveness, kindness and empathy. But rape and murder and greed are also human nature. But these dont exist in a vacuum. Peopke become what society rewards and tells them too. Its why men become promiscuous assholes who cant use their emotions. Are men naturally this? No. Society turned them into this.
It's easy to give up and we do that with a lot of things, I think. For example, I might spend months studying for a test for a certification for my career. Towards the end my fears will sort of tell me that I'll never pass, so why try at all? So, subconsciously I've given up. It can certainly happen with transition, it almost did for me.
I believe you said you're pre-HRT and while I'm not trying to push it on you or anything, most of that feeling of giving up or not doing anything was easier prior to HRT. Once I started, I think I got about a week in and was like, oh I feel really good. But, even then I was kinda like, we'll see, I may still chicken out. By 3 months in, my brain was like, hell no, I need this, giving up isn't an option!
Regardless, I think working on those fears and doubts can go a long way, not just in the short term, but the long term. And again, if you're able a gender therapist is great. I really love having one to at least remind me to combat some of that from time to time and so forth. Another decent resource may be https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1510723056/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which is by a gender therapist.
I've also been questioning since April, and I found this book extremely helpful:
The author ( Dara Hoffman-Fox ) also has a YouTube channel.
Women and men both have their own challenges. But Norah Vincent spent 18 months disguised as a man. By the end she was suicidal and checked herself into a hospital. "It was hard being a guy. Really hard. And there were a lot of reasons for this."
The Gender Dysphoria Bible is useful for an overview of the different ways that gender dysphoria can present and some transition options and that is one that gets recommended a lot here. One thing that I have found useful is You and Your Gender Identity: A Guide to Discovery by Dara Hoffman-Fox. It's a paper workbook that is written by a gender therapist. It's not a substitute for therapy, of course, but it can help you think about your gender in a more structured way.
On reddit, there is a subreddit called r/egg_irl which is a meme subreddit about discovering that you are trans and some of that might resonate. There is also r/TransLater which is a subreddit specifically for people who are transitioning after their twenties and they might be able to help. I'm in my mid twenties, so this is just what I've picked up through the grapevine.
It turns out that dysphoria towards your birth-assigned gender is not necessary to be transgender; wanting to be a different gender is enough.
From here is a lot of introspection, probably a good deal of research, and hopefully a lot of support like you're getting from your friend.
Personally, I found this book very helpful: https://smile.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/
Wherever your gender journey takes you, know that you're not alone. *hugs*
I'm currently reading "My Gender Workbook" by Kate Bornstein. It's a good book, but I get the impression that while it may help you figure out your gender, it's more about moving past gender.
I do have a book I can recommend enthusiastically: https://smile.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/
Your story resonates with me a great deal. I'm 46 and AMAB and within the last few weeks figured out that I'm not cisgender but not what I am. Similarly, never had a problem with my assigned gender, and also have feelings that I would be happier with less rigid gender roles.
I found this book to be very helpful: https://smile.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056/. I've also started seeing a gender therapist, which I know will help.
Good luck on your journey, and feel free to check in with us!
It's dysphoria. You have plenty of time. I'm 37 and asking the same questions. Instead of what you identify as - what would you prefer to be, if you were making yourself before birth as a videogame character? Fortunely, you don't need an answer.
I've been going through this book: https://www.amazon.com/You-Your-Gender-Identity-Discovery/dp/1510723056 and the author has youtube videos too.
Maybe also seek out a gender therapist? Psychology today can recommend ones good with trans issues, or local lgbtq groups probably.
We can't definitively answer that here; not with any authority anyway. I will say that I had very similar feelings going far back into my childood.
I recommend talking to a therapist who is experienced working with trans and gender-questioning clients. But snce you're still not a legal adult, you'll probably have to go through your parent(s)/guardian(s) for anything like that.
If you don't feel comfortable talking to them about this, then try to get your hands on this book. Maybe you have a Kindle account that they don't watch, or you can order it and have it delivered to a trusted friend.
This book really helped me sort through my feelings in the run-up to my coming out.
Only you can tell if you're trans at the end of the day, and it's not an easy question to explore, especially as a teenager. I want you to know how brave you are, and I know you have it in you to find your best self, whoever that may be. I wish you all the luck in the world, love. Take good care and be well! <3
Have you read "Men on Strike? I haven't, but I've watched some interviews with the author and she identifies quite a few possible reasons for the decline in marriage, specifically reasons men are deciding it's a bad deal. I think most of her points are probably in your list now.