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Models: Attract Women Through Honesty?
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I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of Models for your buddy. The book tends to be honest, insightful, and offer lots of actionable advice for building a romantic connection.
Even though it is directed towards men, I highly recommended Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson. It gives a lot of examples of common dynamics and gives helps gets you in a good headspace to approach the question prompt.
Maybe consider reading Mark Manson's book Models: Attract Women Though Honesty.
The end of the book about sex is a little outdated, so you should take that bit with a grain of salt if you decide to buy it.
I had given up hope and decided to be content with things being the way they are at around age 33. Little did I know that I would have my first relationship at 34, lose my virginity a month before I turn 35, and get married at 37. It all happened very unexpectedly, so I don't have any advice to give you on how to stay hopeful, but I do have a book recommendation which might prove useful: "Models" by Mark Manson.
Hey man I totally understand this feeling. I highly, highly recommend you read Models by Mark Manson. It's a dating book, but it's really a book about knowing and practicing self worth, which is crucial to dating and developing meaningful connections with anyone. It's like the father-son conversation I wish my dad gave me and I so wish I read it at the beginning of college. After I read it, I started to have a better relationship with myself, overcame my fear of rejection, understood the values I wanted in a partner and how to create health boundaries.
DM me I can send you a free e-book of it.
Read Models by Mark Manson. He writes that any guy will be a creep to some girls, given the right occasion. I don't see how this is different from fear of rejection. (NB: "Models" is not about how to date a photo model, it's how to model your behavior.)
Calling yourself autistic seems a bit extreme. A lot of good advice from the other posts, read and heed.
The best advice I can give you is to work on yourself first. Focus on the things that make you happy such as a job, personal hobbies, interests, and life in general. Making your life one you are happy with and enjoy will help with confidence but you will still need to work on it.
I recommend reading Models by Mark Manson. I'm halfway through the book myself. So far throughout what I have read it keeps making me think, "that makes sense."
Dude you need to calm down. You sound like you’re spiraling and taking it out on women out of desperation or something and it’s not a good look. You know how you actually get women in a healthy and productive way? Be a level headed, healthy person who isn’t angry, insecure, and full of weird resentment and self pity. Stop making getting pussy the center of your focus. Develop positive habits, be social, find some hobbies, get involved in something, and you will have a much easier time dating and interacting with women. I’d also really recommend you read this book. Most “dating” advice/media out there (especially on the internet) is pua/red pilled horseshit so please avoid, but this one has a premise that is at least honest and positive; I think it might actually help you.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty ~ Mark Manson
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty: Amazon.co.uk: Manson, Mark: 9781463750350: Books
You would also benefit from taking Jordan Peterson's advice, "the reason women aren't interested in you is because you're not good enough for them, so maybe you should work on changing that".
Stop pitying yourself and take action to improve your conditions or you can keep whining like a pathetic nerd on reddit. Your life, innit.
I don't know any men who do that, dime con quién andas, y te diré quién eres.
Consider that your behavior or assumptions might need refinement, it'll do you good. Check out this book. I mean this sincerely I think this book would benefit you.
Read this book. You need more direction than 1 reddit comment can provide but know that it isn't too late.
You haven't really provided alot of information about youe situation so i'm just going to recommend this book. It helped me figure out interacting with women when I had no experience.
Was this the book you referred to? https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358?ref_=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=3ccd26a6-82b1-439f-994e-27c24d7426f4
I know I need to improve my skillet at flirting and attracting ladies Thx
I really just want to say that this absolutely need not be a hang up. Inesecurities are normal and everyone has tons of them (even the ones you think wouldn't) and vulnerability is elemental to connection (in otherwords, is a turn on if properly owned).
On that note I will say that Models by Mark Manson is my favorite dating advice book goes into the how and why of this much more in depth. If you find you like his take, his website has inexpensive courses with exercises to implement said view. Sorry if this sounds like an ad, it isn't one.
Feel free to DM as well. Best of luck to you
Kann die dieses Buch empfehlen hat mir sehr geholfen. https://www.amazon.de/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_BV1JGFAM4FS41W1YYC1X?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 Außerdem kannste auch mal bei Dr. K auf Youtube vorbeischauen der macht auch sehr hilfreiche Videos auf HelatyGamerGG
Although some people already scratched the surface of some of the most important aspects of attracting women, I would suggest to actually read the book “Models - Atrract women with honesty” by Mark Manson. It opened my eyes and positively influenced my (dating) life and my masculinity overall. There you can find practical explanations and advices on how to become a better version of yourself, that in turn will make you more attractive to people.
Go read it now, it might be the best 10$ purchase of your life. Thank me later.
I think the book “Models” by Mark Manson would speak to you. My Amazon account just informed me that I have bought it 6 times for various men who have asked me some version of what you have.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_a_HBPZ6DZXAR7HTERP0N05
You are not ugly, but self esteem issues is rarely attractive to girls.
In addition, dating apps looking for 20's something, are about 70% men vs 30% women, so unless you are really good looking or really good with banter, you might have problems. If you can't hold a girl's attention with your witty conversations, it is very easy for them to move on to the next guy. IRL might be better.
I recommend you read Mark Manson's book. Models: Attract Women Though Honesty to work on your skills.
In pic #1, your hair look pretty good. When it is slicked down against your hair, it doesn't look good.
I checked out your profile and you seem like a great catch! You cook, you’re handsome and in shape, and your post about it being ok to feel lonely seemed very thoughtful and sensitive. Some guys pick up their sexual ‘mojo’ a bit later in life. It’s also hard for anyone to meet people right now with the pandemic.
When I met my partner I really liked that he was straightforward and confident. He eventually told me that his friend had recently divorced and they’d been reading dating advice books together (like a book club haha!)— he recommends Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. I think pickup artist stuff is cheesy, but this looks more based on being yourself. YMMV, not a paid advert I swear. In the end it’s about being yourself and confident, but maybe this book has some pointers.
FWIW, I found this book to be helpful for me to listen to: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
It's not the end all, be all, but it does offer good advice about building confidence in yourself.
At the end of the day, any woman that you'd want to be with won't think it's weird to be around you because you asked them out. If they are, then they are women you're not compatible with.
It's in audiobook format, so it's worth a read/listen.
I think you should read the book Models
The author explains how important it is to be yourself. Doesn't mean you need to be a jerk, but you just shouldn't be a nice guy.
People in general, but women in romantic settings in particular, do not value 'niceness' so much. They tend to see it as a sign of weakness, even if they tell you the opposite.
The solution is to work on yourself and find happiness within yourself. By exercise, self-education, hobbies, and friendships. Once you have a lot of things going, you will not need to sell yourself short and jump through hoops to attract people, including women.
In Models, the author explains how you need to be frank about what it is you want. If an attractive woman says she's a fan of XYZ and you are not, don't pretend you are. Soon or later you're going to have to become another person than who you really are. That's going to be unbearable for you, and people will notice.
Instead, state your desires, negotiate with others to find solutions that satisfy everyone, instead of considering that your wishes can come second - if only people will be willing to hang out with you.
Personally I recommend seeing a therapist, I did for a bit, it really helped just being able to have someone to unload all the bullshit on. I found out that my frustration with women was coming from other areas of my life that were also unfulfilled. Also I discovered that I had a problem with porn/masturbation which I have found causes my confidence with women to diminish. There could be any number of possibilities as to why this is an issue for you and a therapist may be able to help you explore some options on which you may not even be aware of.
Also if this has been an ongoing struggle for you I would recommend reading the book Models by Mark Manson (the link is to Amazon, but I know the pdf can be found for free online). This book really helped me with women and being confident in myself and seeing myself as adequate because it puts a lot of perspective about what that woman you want to approach may be thinking. It gives a lot of solid advice. It is really an incredible read for shy guys, really helped me a bunch with women.
This! So much this! I lost mine at a one night stand... No regrets! It's not as big a deal as people make it out to be.
After you're done with the deed. It's time to improve yourself. I suggest the following book.
https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
There's no law against daydreaming about love and sex. But you also need to know how to differentiate between fantasy and reality. We all fantasize about sex, or being President of the world, flying, being a superhero, etc. There's nothing wrong with it, just as long as you understand your limitations and what's realistic.
After being alone my entire life, I think when you get to my age a man is pretty set in his ways. I've never shared a bed with anyone, not even once, so I have no idea what it would be like to sleep with another person beside me all night. I'm a light sleeper as it as, and the idea having to share a bed with someone at this stage in my life seems troublesome; I don't think I would ever to be well rested if I had someone in my bed. Even with sex, there as a book called "Models: Attracting Women Through Honesty" by Mark Manson", and the author brought up an interesting point about how if you go too long in life just masturbating, you're going to have a difficult time actually being inside a woman, due to the nature of the sensitivity your penis is used to from jacking off compared to a vagina. Without going into much more detail, it essentially says if you've been only jerking most of your life, both you and your female partner aren't going to enjoy sex very much.
Honestly, just read this book. It'll solve a lot of your problems.
> Has anyone been in this situation or one similar?
There's a subreddit for this called /r/datingoverthirty ... ohh wait!
It's shocking if I can't find an old post or current post with someone experiencing exactly my situation as if they were there. People ask/answer the same questions.
As a guy, this book might be a useful read. https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Copy-pasting my comment for OP because I want you, u/jQueryWhore and anyone similar to read this.
I strongly recommend Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. I listened to the audio book via audible and it really helped me understand why I personally had issues with women and was in a similar position. A lot of similar books take a more pickup artist side of meeting and attracting women, but Mark does an excellent job explaining why that doesn’t work in the long run. He goes through what works for him, and breaks down a lot of the issues men face and how deal with it from the ground up rather than just bandaid solutions. It’s a great starting point in understanding and improving yourself. You have to do some leg work in figuring and applying this stuff but I definitely recommend.
I can go into my experience if you are interested, though the real meat and potatoes are in the book, and it’s a must read/listen to for men who struggle with attracting women at any stage of the relationship or courtships.
I strongly recommend Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. Part of what Mark Manson talks about is that women can sense your intention a mile away, and to me, it seems that you are unaware of what your actual intentions are. I will be honest, I stopped reading as soon as I got to abilities/talents and saw you listed height on there. What you have is a form of entitlement.
What do I mean by that? I mean by the way to presented info on yourself, I am under the impression that since you are X Y and Z you should have a girlfriend since you have a lot of assets. Unless you want a casual fuck, you won’t get far with that kind of attitude. Women don’t like being seen as object that want to be won.
Your assets are great to have. You don’t have to put as much leg work as the next guy, but you still have to put in work. To spoil Mark’s book, the biggest part of the subduction process is making yourself vulnerable by putting your heart on the line and risking rejection for it. The only reason why you should approach a girl is because you find her attractive/cute. Not for bragging rights, not for getting more experiences, not for anything else.
Honestly, I think Mark’s book will give you the tools you need to figure this out. It has helped me in a number of ways. Though I only finished the book 3 weeks ago and I’m still looking, I feel more confident in myself to attract a woman that will make me happy.
I second Models (by Mark Manson). It's not an exaggeration to say that book changed me from being retarded around women, to being confident and normal around women.
>These two things are related. Go and lift even if you have to drop weight to do so... just get out and lift something.
Roger. Did just so an hour ago. Feel much better already.
> You had a bad couple of weeks. So what? Just get back to it. Look at the bright side - you're probably still 10x better than before finding MRP.
Thanks. Something something forest for the trees. Right on brother.
> Yeah it takes work to be the Captain especially in your situation with your wife's mental issues. Just keep at it.
Pretty sure a Captain doesn't cut it with this woman and her mental issues. She requires a Fleet Admiral. Only makes me stronger.
> Wow, our lives go in a parallel here regarding no PIV for weeks.
How are you dealing with it both physically and mentally, if you don't mind me asking? Might help me.
> Outside of Game and Day Game, what other are good books for this?
I have heard good things about Models by Mark Manson. It's on my audible list to listen to. I like the idea of honesty in this book.
Just practice. Nothing seemed to work when I was in college but now I’m in my 30s and it’s easy. I do better with girls in their early 20s than when I was their age.
Also, I’ve read a lot of the books, and this one is by far the best (and most enjoyable to live by): Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_.Hx-Bb60GWZHB
If you're a straight guy, dating apps and websites are tough as most of them have way more men on them, and men are usually much more active on them than women. For this reason I'd suggest making more of an effort to meet people in person, network and make friends. Online dating is fine as a supplement but shouldn't be your main method as it's just not effective for a lot of guys and the numbers are stacked against you.
Try local singles meet ups, speed dating events, and/or ask friends to set you up with anyone who might be suitable. If you go to meet ups that aren't for the purpose of dating, don't just zero in on the most attractive woman (or only the young single women) in the room though - that makes you look dodgy. Make sure you participate in the event and talk to a wide range of people regardless of gender, age and attractiveness. Besides, you never know which person could introduce you to your future partner. It could be the person you least expect!
Another thing you can do is get a friend or stylist to help you improve your grooming and fashion choices, to ensure you dress and present yourself in the most attractive way possible. A lot of men are terrible at this so if you make any effort at all in this area, you will probably stand out in a good way. If you can afford it, a good therapist or dating coach can also help you work through any blind spots and areas where you self-sabotage in dating.
I'd also recommend checking out this book: Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
Stimmt da geb ich dir recht. Ich war seit Jahren in keinem herkömmlichen fitnesscenter mehr. Bin eher Bouldern und Sportklettern, da kommt man ziemlich leicht ins reden mit dem anderen Geschlecht. Kann deine Situation verstehen - Kopf hoch, irgendwann wirst du wenn treffen der zu dir passt. Versuch einfach nicht zu suchen dan kommts meist von selbst. Zumindestens gings mir immer mit meinen Freundinnen so (Bin 27, hatte 2 längere Beziehungen und meine aktuelle Freundin jetzt seit 1 1/2 Jahren). Lebe dein Leben so wie du willst, führ einen gesunden Lifestyle und der rest kommt meist von selbst :) Buchtipp: https://www.amazon.de/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531053141&sr=8-1&keywords=mark+manson+models Lies dir ein paar reviews auf Amazon durch, vlt ist es was für dich. Ich kann es zu 100% empfehlen
You’re the man OP!!
Really this is just what a bunch of guys do if they want a girlfriend. There’s actually an entire subreddit called r/seduction that just focuses on talking to and asking out women.
There’s also a very famous book called Models that the subreddit basically draws from too.
This is a HUGE success story whether she liked you or not. You took a moment and put yourself out there which 99% of the men here would never do.
Congrats!
I'm 36 - was 33 when I divorced.
I can't recommend this book enough to those ending a long term relationship. It's been instrumental in my happiness.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_5cFHAbEM774S6
You need to invest in yourself before people will want to be your friends and women will find you attractive, and the book outlines it all.
Good luck!
> By being honest and yourself, you may drive some people away, but here's the catch: you wouldn't have been happy with them anyway. Think about it. If being yourself makes someone walk, is that someone you would've been happy with in the first place? I doubt it.
This is exactly what this book is about. Pretty good read IMO.
Well first off I think the self awareness you have is amazing, that’s a really good trait to have.
Like the other commenter, I think 17 is a bit too young to worry about things like this. You have a VERY long life ahead of you. You should focus on school and your future as a main priority.
However, I agree that people who say “you’ll find a girlfriend naturally” are not telling the truth, or have been lucky.
I recommend looking at r/seduction. I think that finding a girl is about action, you do have to try, they just don’t come naturally. r/seduction is all about picking up women, and asking girls out, which is what every guy needs to do to get a relationship. I also heavily suggest reading Models by Mark Manson. It’s a beautiful book on being confident and getting into a relationship.
The main point is that if you want a girl you have to
1) Improve yourself. Gym, clothes, haircut 2) Ask girls out. Ask out every cute girl you see. Statistically, one girl is bound to say yes.
If you have any questions, you should begin reading the book. Good luck ��
No bullshit, this book helped me a lot. it's not like those bullshit seduction books, this focuses on being yourself and not showing your actual intentions when you're talking to women with the expectation of a relationship. I wish I had this when I was younger.
https://smile.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Mark Manson:"It's about being less invested in others' perceptions instead of NOT invested in others' perceptions."
Neediness is caring more about what people think of you than about what you think of yourself.
Confidence is caring more about what you think of yourself than about what others think of you.
You can show interest. You don't have to be aloof to be attractive, just be more aloof than she is.
Looks are important but not the end all be all. Just have fun yourself and attract women in. Try this book:
You need a hobby and to be happy alone. Desperation for someone else to complete you shows through.
I was kinda socially awkward and new a few years ago myself and am having much better luck nowadays. Most of the highly upvoted posts on here have decent info. If you're lookin for a decent book about being a dude and dating nowadays this book is a good spot to start. I heard about it on here on this subreddit and it has a lot of useful information.
I really enjoyed Models by Mark Manson: (https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358)
It's a self-help book disguised as a pickup book.
The main message is that to truly attract people, whether it's a romantic partner or a friend, you need to be vulnerable.
And being vulnerable really means being honest.
It's difficult to be vulnerable, and he talks about all the different interpretations of being vulnerable.
You don't have to pretend to be someone you're not in order to attract people. You need to practice showing who you really are, honestly and with confidence. People are attracted to vulnerability and confidence. That's why Humans of New York is so popular.
I am of the opinion that someone's mind is a bit like a computer - if you give a computer the wrong input then you will surely get the wrong output.
If you watch sexylady pictures then you will heve these images in your mind & you will suffer since your subcontious mind does not know the difference between real situations and things you see on a screen or poster. Fapping is indeed pointless, having sex with someone you love creates a bond between 2 people. Just shooting load in a cleenex is a waste of your sexual energy. This is something that is generaly not understood in western society. You will not see stuff like billboards for panty's etc in the east / Muslim world since they are more aware of the efects that it has on the mind.
Maybe consider this if you want a long term change.
https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Or try something new that puts you in social situations where you might get to know new people.
The two generalizations you made (which don't make me "angry", because not everyone who disagrees with you is a sissy white knight) aren't accurate representations of the philosophy of TRP. Women like to date men with more money and prestige because they, just like men, are attracted to confidence. Even in platonic relationships, all people are naturally inclined to gravitate towards confidence.
Using that as an example of TRP philosophy is simply disingenuous. When women are painted as incapable of anything other than materialistic addiction to the goods men can provide and universally applying emotional manipulation, then, lemme tell ya, that is a plain case of sexist ideology targeting insecure males because it can feel good. All philosophies blame something as the ultimate cause of negativity in their appropriate paradigm, and for TRP it's women.
Men would be much better served to build themselves up organically, improving themselves not as part of a game to out-manipulate an entire gender but instead out of real self-respect and joy in life, like how it's laid out in this book.
I think you are angry at a collection of negative traits you've seen in some women, and then attribute to most women.
Read Models, it's not shy about pointing out shitty parts of dating, and doesn't put women on a pedestal. It shoots straight, explains how things that are attractive to women are linked to ancient signs of social hierarchy (the female equivalent of how wide hips a blend boobs are attractive to malesbecause it indicated fertility) , and is very insightful early and often.
> Where do you think boys get the idea that you put niceness-coins in and get sex in return?
They get it from confusing seriously important messages that they are told (stop being an abusive, violent asshole to women like previous generations of men were) with a message that the point of this was to get them laid. The point of not being a misogynist is, well, not being a misogynist, because women are people too, with complex desires, needs, and emotions of their own, who should not be abused.
> No man who is successful with women has ever suggested this idea.
Not in quite such simplistic ways, no. But then you get guys like Mark Manson who suggest that connecting with women is what works best in the short and long term.
And guys like me. I was a nice guy who, in my youth, treated women like people to get to know, and frequently had wonderful physical relationships with them. And I was quite low-status by most all RP standards, and all of 140 lbs. at 6' tall. But it worked over and over, constantly amazing those around me. And one day I tried to help a friend meet a gorgeous girl, and it didn't work, but I made friends with her anyway, and eventually she asked me out and now I'm almost 20 years into a marriage that still looks like a brand new one.
It's not "be nice and get laid", but rather "not treating someone like a full person will get you bad long term results."
It's OK to be sensitive in certain ways. If I could give you a piece of advice, it's to ignore those perspectives. They're toxic and agonizing over them won't do you any good. In fact, if it sets off your insecurities, it's gonna be worse for you all around.
Try to do everything you can to give yourself a sense of optimism, with the total understanding that it can be really, really hard sometimes. What you're feeling is normal, and it's tough to feel lonely.
I'd recommend you take a look at Mark Manson's Models. I really enjoyed it, and I think you might benefit from his perspective. http://smile.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463795189&sr=8-1&keywords=models+mark+manson
Estoy leyendo este libro Models: Attract women through honesty y me senti muy identificado con estas dos paginas. Conozco a mas de uno que tambien se puede identificar con esto que dice.
Like someone else pointed out, it's about being the kind of man that's worth dating more than it's about finding women who will date you.
This book is great for the self-improvement-to-meet-women mindset.
http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
it's changing my life more than everything else in this community combined (that's just my oppinion) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358 here is a link in case you haven't found it yet. seriously. read this book.... now...
Everyone is on point with their advice to own that shit, because it really doesn't matter.
To take it a step further, this is something that I sorted out about life from my adventures on this planet for 30 rotations around the sun:
People are too wrapped up in themselves and worrying about what others are thinking of them, that they usually don't even notice the thing you are stressing about... AT ALL. In public, you are just another background player to that persons life.
I personally love the idea that when I am at home in my country, I blend in. I am no one. It's beautiful. I am free.
I highly recommend checking out this book by Mark Mason: Models. It's a dating self-help book technically, but it has a wealth of information on being confident and owning your shit. It has really changed how I interact with the people(not just women) around me.
I reccomend this book, Models - Mark Mason. It was a game changer for me. It's ultimately about being the person you want to be and attracting someone worth your time because of that. Hope you consider checking it out.
I can relate mate, finished school 18 years old 6 foot 58kg (128lbs?) Went to university started watching my diet(actually ate food) and the gym. Cutting now but I'm 82kg atm. Was 91 at my heaviest so far.
You're doing the right thing. University(college) has been a lot better so far for me. Just time now man, keep at it and the results will come :).
I suggest reading Models by Mark Mason Amazon link here It should help put girls and your happiness into perspective. I found it useful.
I agree about the vacuity of the Red Pill movement. Thanks for the insight into the racial issues involved…I didn't know about that.
It's really too bad that red pill acolytes don't get the chance to hear about Mark Manson before they join the movement and become brainwashed. Manson has a really sensible and very different approach to the whole thing.
Read this book. http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
A few years ago, I was in a very low place and saw this book suggested to someone else. It really helped put me on the right track. If you really do want to change your situation then please give it a read.
Ok, first of all, don't fret. Nothing I haven't heard before.
I'm guessing you chill on reddit cuz like most of us you have a bit of social anxiety or some shit like that. That's going to be a decent gating factor to meeting quality women (online dating is nice, but hear me out).
You're not going to attract anyone while you're looking for a relationship (old adage: the one you don't see coming), you need to do yourself and build yourself into a person who women want to be with. Emotionally.
Just read this bookread this book, it'll change your life. It certainly helped mine out. :D
And always feel free to shoot a PM if you need a bro.
I have solution for you, if you want to learn how to provide women more value, and hence be more attracted to you. Read the logical and practical book: Models: Attract Women Through Honesty.
Wish you success with the women.
No worries! I came across it after reading his book Models
Best of luck in your research!
Read Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson. I managed to get lucky a couple of times just sort of fumbling through life, but recently have read this book and wish I had come across it ages ago. It really boils down the various elements that make an attractive man and how they relate to getting women and ultimately, being sexual. Give it a try.
Note: If you are here from the /r/bestof thread, which devolved into a lot of slander, please know that I am a genuine guy who would do what I can to help any of you become better men/people and feel better in your relationships with women and others. That's the point of this post and what I assumed we are all here for.
This is actually a great disarming tactic. Someone said further down in the thread that he ended up flattering the guy about his glasses. All bi jokes aside, everyone loves to be validated, and especially those pseudo-alpha male guys with tons of insecurities that are the most susceptible to this animalistic, territory-control behavior. I toss out a compliment if they have on a cool shirt, ask them where they got it, so on and so forth. I'll include them on a round of shots. We all become friends. By the end of what was their initial approach to talk to my girlfriend, they are saying what a cool dude I am and gifting drinks to us. Everyone is happy.
My girlfriend is objectively attractive as a petite blonde with some sizable warlocks [EDIT: this is from the movie Superbad] that draw a lot of primal grunts and attention. If she asks me if something shes wearing is too risque (due to said warlocks), I reaffirm her to go for it. I want her to feel comfortable with herself and express her sexuality however she deems fit for her. I love watching other dudes try and pick her up and I don't interfere with confidence. She can handle herself, and I can handle myself. I always tell her, if she goes home with him, I will 100% give him all the cash in my wallet and the keys to my car [EDIT: this is a running joke between us and not serious]. I am secure with myself and in our relationship. Today, I still have all of my money, drive the same car, and we fuck.
Comparing yourself to and concerning yourself with what others are doing is always a road to failure.
Edit: Story
This situation arose two weekends ago when my girlfriend and I went out for my ex's birthday. What would be a weird situation on paper ended up fairly advantageous for me. I personally think my current SO is hotter than my ex, but they are both successful, attractive women, as well as my ex's cousin who is of equal measure (and married). The women were all sitting at the bar together and I was standing behind them across the walkway talking to someone else.
A gang of bros rolls in and sees them all sitting at the bar. Pack mentality kicks in. The hunt is on. You guys know what that looks like, I'm sure. The routine "order a drink next to the girls and use that as leverage to talk to them" show was performed to no applause, but it worked. While they were busy assessing the situation, I finished up my conversation and rolled over. I said, "lets do birthday shots", and "do you dudes want to do shots with us too?" I don't say anything gut-reaction stupid like "hey these are MY WOMEN" (they aren't anyone's property) or "this is MY GIRLFRIEND". It was simple communication through action.
No gang of bros turns down shots. We all cheersed. I told one guy he looks like someone I see at the gym as we set down our glasses. We find out that we live a street away from each other. He introduces me to all of his friends. 30 minutes later, the whole gang of bros are now my friends, and bought several more rounds of shots even after it was leaked that I am dating one of the three and have dated two of the three. I overheard one say "oh, the one there is his girlfriend but he's super cool". Which, had I went in saying one of the aforementioned stupid lines like some jerkoff bulldog, his assessment of me would have been completely different.
I still see the one guy at the gym and now I have more friends, and again, am still fucking. Not all women are going to like you, but for the ones that do, be the best choice in the group because you are the best version of you, and you make others feel like they are the best version of them. No insecure, possessive chode horseshit needed after that point. It's magic.
Second Edit: Resources
Since this caught fire, some people have asked for resources on self-improvement. A few quick suggestions:
- A therapist. Developing emotional intelligence is absolutely critical to becoming a better you. The one thing we aren't taught in typical schooling is how to deal with mental/emotional cues, events, and trauma. Therapy has a stigma where people believe that it's "someone telling me how I should feel". It's not. A good therapist is unbiased and gives you the tools and skills necessary to work through how you feel in a productive way for yourself and in your relationships with other people.
- Models (by Mark Manson), No More Mr. Nice Guy, Hold on To Your Nuts, and as a bonus on how Frank Sinatra lived, The Way You Wear Your Hat. These books have some great insights into how to live as better men, through honesty, introspection, and genuine relationships with others, without jeopardizing who you are in the process.
- /r/relationships and /r/relationship_advice. I read so much of those subs because it's real people dealing with real problems. You will easily find things you can relate to and think about here.
well shit man, you're gonna make me cry. I've had a relationship very similar to this and I have to say there is nothing really like it. However as special as you might think this person is; just remember that part of that emotion can also be nostalgia. When it comes to our needs and wants as human beings in relationships. We tend to overlook the negatives for the positives because (depending on how much abuse we are willing to deal with) sometimes those precious moments of mundane life can be just as powerful if not more powerful than the heartbreak dealt in it's absence.
To be honest; ever since I was a kid I has a romanticized view of women. That through trial and error I would meet "the one". Someone who brings the concept of "kindred spirits" to the next level. They get your sense of humour, they don't disappear or mock when you do stupid shit; they understand your aspirations and dreams; but more importantly they deeply understand inner workings of your pathos while bringing their own interesting perspective and pathos along with them. To make a sort of intermingling of emotions; like oil and water shaken up in a bottle intermingling but never a carbon copy of each other; only complimenting each other.
The sad reality however is that this shit doesn't really exist.. Don't get me wrong; you can find close to this if you are lucky which is what you probably found with the girl you are describing. However the older I get the more I realize that the concept of "oneitis" only hurts you in the long run. What turns from a 2 year relationship; might turn into 2 later years of mourning of that prior relationship due to the concept of how "special" or "unique" this girl is. I know this feeling deeply as i've dealt with it a couple of times. The truth is that these girls aren't actually that "unique" or "special". Of course everyone is unique in their own way and there are no perfect copies of anyone. However when you start to date a large amount of women the "unique" traits; become less "unique" and more similar. People aren't as special as they make themselves out to be. We have similar molds and the girl you thought that was like no other; probably has millions of very similar copies. I know this is making me out to be like a dick; but i wouldn't write this novel if I wasn't trying to pass on some painful knowledge that I received from previous relationships if I didn't relate to your struggle.
This last piece of advice is even going to sound more asshole-ish/nihilistic, but the way I was back in my other relationships (and correct me if i'm wrong about yours because i hate to project incorrect psychological analysis). I would generally put the girl on a pedestal and value what made her happy more than what made me happy. This is what ended all of my relationships in horrible ways. From cheating to 1 week breakups to flat out insulting rejections; a large portion of putting these girls on pedestals was valuing them more than myself. This comes from a position of broken self-esteem. The moment I started having less attatchment to the females in my life and started living for myself. The more girls i started dating and guess what; if you want to ever meet a girl that's similar to the experience you had with your SO. Then you are going to have to play the numbers game and I mean quickly. When i say this I don't mean sleep with as many women as possible, but meet and become on friendly terms with as many people as you possibly can and then select the ones that you connect with the most. This will not only make your dating life way better; but it will change the way you view relationships. You wont be so desperate to latch onto a girl, because you wont see the girl as angelic saint diety goddess. However as a person with their own attributes, idiosyncrasies and flaws. This is one of the most singular things that has improved my life; and since you seem to have shared a similar relationship past with mine I just thought I would share it with you.
Anyways, Whether you take my advice or not, man I wish you peace, brother.
Also if you want to dive deeper into why women are more attracted when you are less attatched/emotionally responsive read this: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
It's PUA without being a complete narcissistic superficial dick.
Pce.
Read Models. Best money you ever spent.
https://www.amazon.ca/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
I got started a little later in life but have been doing pretty good lately.
I don't like it when people pretend that being short isn't a factor in dating or that all you need is confidence. It's for sure a major factor, but it is a factor you cannot change.
If you're trying to maximize your outcome there's no point in thinking about something you cannot change. Ultimately you should pretend like your height doesn't matter and live your best life to maximize your dating chances.
One thing to think about too, some women 100% do not care about height. If you psych yourself out before you've even started you'll never find those women. I used to think I had to be taller than a women for her to like me, and at this point I've dated more women taller than me than shorter than me.
Here's the major things that have helped me:
Work on not caring about your height. You'll still get rejected sometimes because of your height, but a lot of those people are shallow anyway and wouldn't have been worth seriously dating.
Move to a densely populated city that lots of new people move to. I lived in a midsize city for a while and it was fine, but people got married to people from high school or college, or friends of friends that they have know for a long time. I've since moved to more of a destination city and there are more people to meet, and people arn't as wrapped up in their existing social networks. It makes it a lot easier to get dates. It's easier to play it cool when you have another date lined up next week, as opposed to only getting a date every 6 months.
Live you best life. You can't change your height but you can improve almost everything else about yourself. It's worth doing outside of dating, but it helps a lot in dating.
I like reading books when I want to improve on a topic. Even if I don't totally agree with the book it's still helps me think about the topic deeper. Dating books for men tend to be creepy, but I thought this one was okay: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
You really should see a therapist brother. I think one on one in-person discussions with someone whose really well equipped to help you cope with your brokenness and anger would do a world of good.. with some consistent effort to talk it out on your part.
Some therapists suck.. but some don’t.. so I suggest looking until you find one that seems warm and down to earth (could be the first one you sit down with).
Whatever you choose to do, there’s definitely more emotions and personal history that needs to be addressed and come to peace with.
I wish you the absolute best of luck with everything.
Here’s a couple books that’ve helped me in the past (one about women specifically), maybe you read them and gain something, maybe you don’t. I’m sure not all of it’s applicable to your specific situation but I don’t really know what else to offer.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_RD39NVXVJJ0NW9M768AC
The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062457713/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_QDAMN3QZ5AHEB9Q0G820
Peace and love for whatever you choose to do.
I’m not a guy, sorry, but Mark Manson’s site PostMasculine always struck me as the least douchey of these types of things. His book Models seems to be well-received, too.
To anyone wondering what's wrong with that message, I'd recommend reading Mark Manson's blog and his book, <em>Models: Attracting Women through Honesty</em>. Both elaborate extensively on strong boundries, being open and sincere about one's feelings (which Mark calls "vulnerability" — a misnomer, in my opinion) and the kinds of romantic relationships one could end up in, including abusive ones.
I was long time in a PUA community because I was interested in developing my social skills so I would be in better position in means of landing into a relationship. I was put off by the misogynistic and manipulative stuff but saw a lot of legit social psychology which was compatible with ethics behind other types of advice. There are a different levels there, "negging" and similar emotionally abusive tactics are considered to be a really low paradigm stuff and there are authors/PUAs like Mark Manson and David Deida. They promote a lot more wholesome PUA-culture that is based on developing yourself as a best version of yourself while renouncing emotional manipulation, misogyny and the whole egoic mindset common in PUA-circles.
The reason why the trope "asshole gets the girl" exists is because it is true, but the full truth is more nuanced that most people understand. If one reads social psychology, one thing that stands out is the fact that women are largerly attracted to self-confident behaviour. Being self-confident doesn't necessarily mean being an asshole - you can be a confident person without being a dick.
There exists two kinds of confidence - egoic confidence and self-esteem. Egoic confidence is in fact a compensatory mechanism for a lack of self-esteem and this is the very reason why narcissists for instance, are unable to take criticism. Most people however, are not aware of this and take egoic confidence at it's face value. The main difference between the two is that egoic confidence is based on you being better vs. someone else where self-esteem is feeling that you are enough just being you so you don't even have to compare with others. People who have high self-esteem and are genuinely good people can have flings and relationships just as easy than those who are assholes with egoic confidence, in fact people with high self-esteem are even more wanted in means of relationship-material. I know one friend of mine who is a living epitome of the "Good Guy Greg"-meme and he is extremely succesful in both dating and friendships because of it.
There is also the part that being dangerous is sexy. Being dangerous doesn't necessarily mean evil. Rock stars, vigilantes, motorbikers and such are widely considered sexy but are not necessarily evil or even amoral. For instance, a punk rocker might have an intimidating appearance and be a brave rebel fighting for positive social causes. However, it's important that this danger to be sexy - one can appear to be dangerous yet be repulsive, especially when it's associated with needyness and other emotionally insecure traits.
If you are further interested of this subject, I'd recommend reading book "Models" that goes deeper into this subject. It is a really good book as it's about becoming genuinely attractive person without the need to manipulate, emulate or fake behaviour. I feel like it's one of the most mature books ever written on the subject of dating. It's on a higher paradigm than any PUA-books I have read during my life.
So there's a bit to unpack here. It seems to me like there are a few things that you need to address, incel mentality aside.
First, your self-esteem seems to be pretty low. Anyone that refers to themselves as 'ugly' is not likely someone with moderate or high self-esteem/worth. Therapy might be valuable, and I've linked an article below that provides some things to try in order to love ourselves more. We are our own worst critics, and in the process we forget to love ourselves, and wonder why others don't treat us well. It sounds corny, but you have to cultivate a positive relationship with yourself. Your relationship with yourself is going to be your most important relationship in your life. Tend to it and it will pay dividends in the rest of your life.
As for your relationship, from a comment you made it sounds like part of the reason you're with her still is because you are afraid of being alone. This to me tells me that you probably need to learn to be on your own for a while. I understand that she has trauma that prevents her from being comfortable being intimate, and frankly, she probably needs some time to sort that out as well. Intimacy is a massive component of a romantic relationship, and to forego that indefinitely is huge ask from anyone, irrespective of how much you love that person. Is she getting any help for the trauma she experienced? I guess you have to ask yourself if you are happy for no intimacy for the rest of your life, assuming you stay with this girl forever. If not, then you guys might need to have some honest conversations.
In regards to that incel mentality, I think a lot of that might stem from your self-esteem, and history of not having much luck with women. Yes, some women go for the guys that are 'bad' or treat them poorly. But that's their choice... there are still women out there that value a man that treats them well. It comes down to you building up your self-esteem for YOU. Build a great life for yourself that isn't with the goal of attracting women, and in the process, I promise you will attract women. For that I recommend the book Models by Mark Manson. It's a book about getting better at attracting women by first getting rid of our insecurities and neediness, and building an awesome life.
Brother, the main thing to take away from this is that you need to love yourself. You will do that by stopping the negative internal dialogue and treating yourself as you would a friend. Look after yourself, take the steps to build a good life for YOU, and in the process, you will attract the very women you desire, and actually have a chance at true happiness in a relationship. Good luck.. hit me up if you ever want to chat about any of this.
​
22 Ways to Love Yourself More (psychcentral.com)
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
Reading this book really helped me out, I’m hopeful it will help you too.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_7GSZ7TM68S4Z9C57CYQH
I would recommend the book Models, you can get it on amazon/kindle.
Two books:
The first (its short, dont worry) is :https://freedomainradio.com/free/
Called "On truth, the tryanny of illusion"
The second is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
If I could go back in time and get myself to read two books, it would be these.
Step One: Models, by Mark Manson. This book is truth. I gained more value from this book than almost any other text I've read on the subject. And I've read a lot, including a lot of worthy competitors for the crown, but Models is king.
Step Two: Commit to self-improvement. What you're missing is courage. You find it by going to the places you fear. Get out of your comfort zone in all things. What a lot of men suffer from is they're standouts in one area, and below average in one or two others. Simply having your shit together and a few cool interests outside that is enough to set you apart from a surprisingly large number of guys.
Step Three: Set the bar low. Mark Manson talks about this well. Start with just simple socializing, then a little bit of flirting, then asking for numbers/dates. Gotta learn to crawl before you can learn to walk.
Step Four: Face your demons. Men's undoing with women is the insecurities you bring to the table. It's the unknowns of it all that drive us nuts. Get to the root of your insecurities, make your peace with them, accept yourself as a flawed individual, and maybe one day you'll find yourself in the place where you have nothing to prove to the fairer sex. That's a mountaintop few men get to stand on.
Step Five: Value and pursue experience. Be willing to fail. See rejection as both blessing in disguise and learning experience. This is the pain period of the learning curve where you will fuck up a lot. So long as you don't take stupid risks and keep your head on straight, the only damage will be to your pride.
The ugly truth about losing your virginity is for most guys, it's a numbers game. Sooner or later, so long as you commit to trying to do better, a woman will cross your path who will be willing to make it easy, and God bless them for it. Because what you'll find at the end of the day is that sex is awesome and all that, but nothing really changes when it comes to you. You're still the same guy, just hopefully a little sore and tired. And in time you'll start to learn that sex isn't all that special unless the "who" and "why" factors are there.
A wise woman once said that the people who get laid do so because they intuitively understand that sex appeal is a byproduct of self-esteem, not a cause. Far too many people think it works in reverse. I'm here to tell you it most certainly doesn't.
Here is a guide on how to find a girlfriend, I have been fairly successful in the dating world (not from the start).
I really advise reading this book: [Models
Attract Women Through Honesty](https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358) - it's available on audible if you don't wanna read. I read The Game, art of Seduction and several others. The one I gave is the most ethical, doesn't require Tinder, and is honestly comprehensive.
Preface: If you want to meet a girl online, Tinder is a fucked up app/culture. Treat it as a marathon, not a sprint. I would advise other apps, but they are not for everyone. And it's a numbers game. I firmly believe that, if you sit long enough, you will eventually meet someone you are vibing with.
Online part 1, your profile: Now, it is true that the two rules of tinder are rule 1: be attractive and rule 2: don't be unnatrictive; the rabbit hole tho, goes much deeper than this. Firstly, fuck yo genetics, trust me you can have a good looking profile - you just need good photos. Get a white shirt & black pants if you know nothing else. Get a picture in those. If you have a pic with your friends - use that as well. Pictures of you cuddling pets are fucking perfect! You can even take a photo with someonelse's dog, it doesn't matter! Now you should have 3 good pictures, that is enough. If you want to know how to dress well in general watch Alpha m.. Trust me bro, your scull shape don't matter when you dress on point.
You also want some profile description, what do you like to do, maybe what you don't like (not about women! I don't like cats, I don't like short answers to my questions, I don't like green tea, whatever) are all good points of conversation for later on. Write where you have been, or where you wanna go. For women looks are less important than for men! (but if you have nothing but photos in your profile, there is nothing else to judge you by. Yes, obviously looks are improntant, I am not saying they aren't).
Online part 2, texting: here is a 3 step algorithm.
Step 1: compliment her on something, with a follow up. What do I mean? Don't just say you like her earrings, say you like how they sparkle in the sunlight. So, what you like, and then why you like it. Best done when you are being genuine. Sometimes I will spend a min or two looking and thinking. I have no data on this, but I think compliments about their physical looks ie hair, body, eyes (very generic) are worse than something they chose ie makeup, clothes, accessories. Altho, I have never had a bad reaction to my compliment, whichever I did.
Step 2: comment on something in her profile. Maybe you recognie somewhere she's been, or there is a photo by the beach, say you where at the beach last summer and wanna return. Just say something, for which you got an idea from her profile, and somehow relates to you.
Step 3: ask her a question, preferably relating to her profile, preferably an open ended one.
Examples:
I like your hair, it's so curly! I see you have a photo by the beach, I was in _ last summer, had a great time! What do you like to do at the beach?
Ooh, that dress in pic 3 looks pefect on you, I may be biased as blue is my favourite colour haha. I see you have a dog? I used to have a _ but sadly she died a few years ago. What breed is yours and how old is it?
Your makeup in on point in pic 5, I like how you did those eyeshodows, colour are poppin! It says in your profile you like reading books, the last thing I've read was _, I dunno how I feel about it. What's your favourite book, and why?
This is why I never swipe on girls with no description. Less than 3 lines of text? Fuck that, swipe left. It's so hard to do this on only photos. I used to, but no longer want to.
IRL General: Best advise I can give, is be yourself. But that doesn't mean much if, whomsoever is reading this, is a depressed blackpilled mysogynist. So here is my, not as good advise (none of these are a must, but increase your chances I believe):
Firstly, educate yourself. Books, audiobooks, YT lectures, free lectures in your city. It gives you something to put in your profile, as well as to talk about. None of my gfs were into my favorite games, and while you can find a gamer girlfriend, a general dating advise from me is to find something non-gamer related you can talk about (and your a genuinly interested in!). I lost count on how many dates I explained why I fast and how ketosis works.
Secondly, physical activity. Not so much for 'getting in shape' as for your mental wellbeing and confidance. Do anything you like - volleyball, lift weights, or run. It also increases performance in the bedroom ;) Also something you can put in your profile.
Thirdly, learn how to cook or bake. Everyone loves tasty food, its also good for your mental wellbeing, and a great selling point in a relationship. I have lost count of the number of people who said (jokingly I think) they'd love to date me, after tasting my food. Hormones released from sugar and orgasm act on the same receptors, so if you know how to bake a good cake...
IRL 2, first date: I personally don't like movies and such. Do what you will, but 90% of mine were either walks around the city, a fairly cheap cafe, a museum. Something that's centered on talking, so you can get to know each other. I'd say many dates don't result in a second. And yes, it's difficult at first, I did feel rejected but now I am at a point, where I will just say to myself 'we didn't fit each other' and move on. Even if I liked the person. Also, some of the girls I've been on dates with we are now friends. As is the case with some of my ex girlfriends. It is good to cast away the mentality of expecting something particular from a date and people/women in general. When you stop trying to make someone date you, when you drop the expectation of what role they ought to play in your life, I guarantee you will have more fulfilling relationships and, find a girlfriend. Its a bit like sleep, you cannot will yourself to sleep, it is only by relaxing and letting go of expectations.
I don’t know exactly what you’re going through, I’m not you, but I’ve been in a very similar mental state before.
I have a few challenges I’d like to give you:
I would challenge you to join a mens support group. Drop whatever stigma you have around it, go online and find one, and attend the next meeting. My personal recommendation is to join a “No More Mr Nice Guy” group. You will meet some great, supportive guys, who will, with the help of a counselor, help you embrace your masculinity and get what you want.
If that is too daunting, see if your school or work offers an assistance program. You can find a good male therapist for free/cheap.
If you read or listen to audiobooks, and would like to learn more about dating, attractiveness, and healthy masculinity, I would challenge you to read at least one of the following books:
No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover
Lastly, working out is not a cure all. It is incredible, everyone should do it. It teaches you discipline, and improves your quality of life drastically. But it is not the secret to dating or confidence. Yes, it will undoubtedly help both those things, sometimes a lot, but it’s only one piece of the puzzle. It is a great step in the right direction.
I challenge you to go to the gym three times a week, for the next month. I don’t care if you sit there for five minutes and leave, the only important part is building the habit. The training can come later. It is a long term process.
Push yourself, open your mind, break out of your bubble, and you can accomplish more than you ever imagined.
Godspeed man, hope you take up at least a couple of my challenges.
Hey man, you seem like a smart guy, that likes to ponder on some good questions.
I worry though that some of the feeling that comes through in your writing is overly pessimistic. I see some of my past self in your words.
I apologize if you are not looking for advice, but I read a book when I was at my lowest that really helped me out.
https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Recomand cartea asta: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Si eu am cam aceleasi probleme, dar am vazut ca am un pic mai mult success in "offline".
I highly recommend reading this book - https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Many people don't understand what introversion is and that it is in fact different from being shy. I am introverted - that means that I am usually very thoughtful with my words, I am a good listener, I am usually direct in my conversation (no small talk!), and yes I focus on having fewer good relationships. Being shy on the other hand means that you don't say what is on your mind because you are afraid of what other people will think of you. As someone who was shy and is introverted, I have learned to own my introversion as an extremely powerful and wonderful aspect of my personality. Even though I am introverted, I can go up to a women - who I think is attractive - and say exactly what is on my mind - I think you are beautiful and I would love to get to know you. You don't need to be quick witted, you don't need to be charming, you don't need pick up lines - all you need is to be confident and self aware. And yes, women will reject you but that is not a bad thing honestly (it just takes some getting used to).
Read “models attracting women through honesty by mark manson” https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Read “models attracting women through honesty by mark manson” https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Read “models attracting women through honesty by mark manson” https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
If you want to go on dates read “ Models attracting women through honesty “. It will teach you the basics. That a lot of us didn’t get as we were growing up. https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Read Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_a_TB4BC7JQ1JS3X0TC635K
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_EAMYPHMWZCHJW78Q116C
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_EAMYPHMWZCHJW78Q116C
Go find some wisdom in the book
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_GW49Y0GHBZXZSMK0RPRD
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It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users. I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
Here is link number 1 - Previous text "it"
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> However, many of the so called healthy versions, are filled with that "masculine and feminine polarity" bs.
I don't think this is the most important part of the kind of learnable skills that go into dating. I think the most important ones that should be taught are applicable across the board regardless of gender, starting with social skills and communication. And even when talking specifically about flirting, having a playful attitude applies both to men and women.
However, I don't necessarily think that masculine and feminine polarity stuff needs to be antifeminist/anti-egalitarian. Of course, it depends on how it's tackled. In gay and lesbian dating sometimes one person takes on a more "masculine" role and the other one a more "feminine role". There are also straight couples where the woman is more aggressive and the man is more passive. These roles don't have to be set in stone even. One can alternate between taking on a more dominant and a more submissive role. I agree that it would be bad advice to tell people to stick to rigid gender stereotypes.
I guess another way to talk about polarity is sexual tension. It's a dynamic that is more potentially vulnerable, intimate, risky, exciting than just a purely platonic dynamic. However, because of this, creating a certain level of safety and comfort is also important. I guess one reason why the dominance/submission dynamic is such a staple is because it requires a certain amount of trust and vulnerability. That's why dancing can be quite a charged activity, not only because of the physical contact, but also because one person takes the lead and the other follows. But I repeat, these roles can be alternated.
In many ways flirting skills correlate with general social skills and good flirting is in large part just having a good conversation with someone. But there is a small part of it that is different from other social interactions. Because romance and friendship are not the same thing.
Anyway, some good examples of dating advice I can think of are:
PEERS social skills training for people with autism - they have a section dedicated to dating skills specifically. As you see, it's more about communicating well and navigating etiquette properly rather than conquest.
Mark Manson's Models: Attract Women Through Honesty Tbh I find Mark Manson's writing style annoying as he can sound a bit full of himself, as if he has discovered the ultimate life wisdom or something. But this book is the only one I know that is endorsed both by staunch feminists and PUAs, so that must mean something. I don't agree with every detail or every specific advice given, but the big picture is correct that being good at dating is not so much about what line to say or what show-off car to purchase, it's more about working on your inner self.
> But someone who's interested in women.. shouldn't they ask women what they are looking for when starting those interactions? But not women as a group, as a monolith.. women as individuals, with different opinions and preferences. Same thing for the other way around.
Absolutely. Specifically for men into women who are looking for advice, I think you need two kinds of perspectives. One type of perspective would be women being courted by men. That's absolutely a valuable perspective to have, because it does matter what kind of impressions you leave on (different kinds of) women with your approach. I also think that getting advice from other men who court women is important, because there are certain difficulties that are more or less invisible from the other side.
Let me illustrate with a gender flip. Suppose a female friend of me wants to start approaching guys romantically and asks for my help. I'd be glad to give my perspective of course. Because being approached by women is a fantasy of mine, I'd very enthusiastically tell her that of course guys want to be approached all the time etc. and that whatever she does she can basically do nothing wrong. However, if she asked a female friend of hers who has experience with approaching men, that friend might tell her about times she has been slut shamed after approaching a guy, or painful rejections she's had, or times when it was just very awkward. Those are difficulties in the experience of women approaching men that are invisible to me in my daily life and it's important to learn how to cope with those difficulties.
> I am not denying men have struggles when it comes to this. I never said it's easy and I don't believe it is. There are many aspects that I imagine can be very difficult. And this isn't a simple topic.
You seem like a thoughtful person, kudos for that.
I would get off dating apps. They are geared toward attractive men.
I am in a situation where most of my friends are settled down and there is a lot less social outings to meet people. What I am trying is getting into social activities that I would enjoy anyways.
I started volunteering at the animal shelter because I like dogs. Surprisingly I have only met ONE other guy there so far. Otherwise its all women, some of them young.
Second I always liked to lift weights. I ditched my gym membership and signed up for crossfit so I can be more social when I work out.
third I signed up for a basketball team. One of the women on the team already wanted to branch out and start a different team.
Take your interests and find a way to be in the world more.
Finally, read this book, it changes dating lives for the better.
https://www.amazon.ca/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Good self-awareness, my dude.
Could be you are a needy person - lots of dudes are. I just read this book on the subject and it's been an eye opener. Highly recommend.
https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
This is the part that I don't understand why people don't get it. Even "Chad" gets called creepy from time to time. You shoot your shot, and if it fails, you get called creepy. Different women find different men attractive, you shrug and move on.
Read this book:
Models by Mark Manson
That's a very generic question I suggest you read this once Models https://www.amazon.in/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_glc_i_DV1RKBHCZNTDQJ3CH67H
i really want to recommend a book for you
https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
it's a great read about investing in yourself to become more attractive
Partly it's that you're experiencing the "seeker" role (as opposed to "sought") that you're used to men taking in straight dating.
And partly it's that many bi women don't have much experience dating women so they don't know exactly what to do.
>A large number of bi women get into a cycle where they mostly date men because there are more men to date, then feel anxiety about their lack of experience dating women, which fuels anxiety re: dating women, which means dating more men...
>
>AND THEY ALL THINK THEY’RE THE ONLY ONE
If they're actually into you they'll be responsive; if they're not you could spend tons of energy trying to guess why. Maybe you can win them over, but past a couple tries it's usually better to just move on. See: Fuck Yes or No.
You might check out some dating advice for guys:
As long as you're happy, my dude. The two in the middle are pretty.
I read a few of the comments after you clarified, this all seems really dishonest and a high quality person would see right through this. To get a girl to like you you need to be:
attractive
dont be unattractive.
Outside that, being a genuine and direct person is important. If you like someone, tell them, ask them out on a date, have your shit together, and that's it. By have your shit together I mean, diet and training is under control, you regularly are clean and have a clean place to live, are making goals in your education or career, and arent making reckless financial or life decisions. Just actually vocalizing what you want is probably the most important factor. If you're looking for material to read for helping you,
I'd recommend the books:
Both are about honest communication with women, how to grow as a person, and how to express how you're feeling in life and in most situations.
TLDR: Models. It's a book that will improve way more than just your dating skills - if you are honest with yourself and try to follow its advice with a tad bit of self-reflection, that is. You have to find your inner-fulfillment before you can really find happiness with others.
The things you said are all external. You will get a lot further by working on your confidence. It really doesn't matter how you look if you come across as someone who is inauthentic or needy. Those are the things that really matter - you have to be content with yourself before you can really impress other people. Or people who are worth spending time with anyway.
> When you have multiple bad experiences it is very easy to sabotage the whole thing. Whenever I talk to someone, in my mind I know it won't work out just like the previous ones and then that gives me a feeling of disinterest and frustration.
The more you pursue things, the harder they are to reach. There is a nice quote in Manson's book "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck":
> The desire for more positive experience is itself a negative experience. And, paradoxically, the acceptance of one’s negative experience is itself a positive experience.
It sounds like you are putting way too much pressure on the date and how it turns out. If you are happy with and by yourself - truly happy, not fake-happy - and see a date as a way to get to know someone regardless of how it turns out you will definitely have more success. But the self-defeating attitude ("I don't even look because I know there is nothing there and even if I approached it won't work just like the previous experiences.") won't get you anywhere.
I really don't know you so this is just blanket advice, but I recommend you forget dating for a while and work on your inner-self. Find things that give you emotional fulfillment and pursue them. For me, for example, it's guitar, hacking, and cooking. Once you have things that you care about and don't desperately look for dates to fill that part of your life, you can start dating. And then just be yourself and people/girls who like you the way you are will flock to you - you don't really want the others around.
It's really interesting: I love talking about music theory, how networks work, or what the last thing I cooked was and why I did it the way I did it. And my dates always tell me that they are fascinated by my passion and love the way I talk about it, even though they couldn't give two flying fucks about the way scales are built. Of course, girls still flake on me. I see less than half of my Tinder dates a second time. You can't win everyone. But that shouldn't destroy your confidence or your hope. Those things are a choice and something you can only give yourself - don't let anything take them from you.
>I am in love with you and have been since I first set eyes on you
Jesus Christ, dude. Learn the difference between love and infatuation.
Also read this book
A good read for you would be Mark Manson's
https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
There's a summary available but I highly recommend the book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6xT_98x-I
You should be able to do this by listening to the pickup artists who use 'fair' techniques that aren't outrightly manipulative. Mark Manson is one such man with one such book:
Or maybe for a less creepy take on the same subject Models: Attract Women through Honesty
I'm going to write up a longer response, but first I need to ask you; Have you read "Models", by Mark Manson? https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
So you initiate, and then she star-fishes on you?
Edit: I suggest reading some books on understanding how to create attraction in a woman.
Get in physical shape and starting exercising and working out.
Read books like Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. It's has an excellent explanation female attraction and any guy can use it.
No more Mr. Nice guy" by Robert Glover
What women want when they test men
Another resource is Charisma on Command
Read "Sex God Method" by Daniel Rose. Using it is easy and it will blow your world apart.
https://www.scribd.com/document/317641132/Sex-God-Method-2nd-Edition-pdf
I'll just make a list here for anyone interested:
- Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson
- The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life by Mark Manson
- No More Mr Nice Guy: A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex, and Life
- Mindsight: The New Science of Personal Transformation by Daniel J. Siegel
- Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns
- Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead by Brené Brown
- The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle
- The Game by Neil Strauss
- The Definitive Book of Body Language: The Hidden Meaning Behind People's Gestures and Expressions by Barbara Pease & Allan Pease
Yeah, those clips were pretty funny ��
No lol, I wouldn’t try to learn about something like that through porn - the full name of the book is “Models: Attract Women Through Honesty.”
I do have nearly absolute trust in the relationship (you brought up the money thing, but I’ve gotten a bachelors degree, am going for 2 masters, a CPA and CMA license, and I might even get an extra master’s in organizational psychology. I stand to inherit a company from my dad and will be making a very large amount of money. It’s my accounting instinct to want to protect all that I’ve worked for and I will never know if my money is the reason that someone was so into me. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable trust issue and I don’t think asking for a prenup is at all unreasonable at all either). And I do ask what they want when we’re not actually in the act. I’m all about continuous improvement and I don’t believe the improvement is really ever done. Especially because people get new ideas about what they want to try in bed all the time.
I even have several board games (or card games) where you choose from different sexual acts (there’s like 150 different ones and you choose 7 per game in the game I’m thinking of) and play a game and the “winner” of each round chooses one of their 7 to have done on them. If one side completes their 7 before the other, they have to finish all the cards that are left (that’s not in the rules, but that’s how I play). I put plenty of avenues out there to try to find out everything I can. But, I, for one, would love it if women would just tell me what they want and what I could improve on from the minute they think of it - it wouldn’t hurt my feelings at all. I know my closest friend is the same way, but I suppose I can’t speak for all men. It really shouldn’t be that big of a deal though with most of them.
Lol, I know women don’t like guys to finish on their face. I can’t think of any reason why even 12% like it. But they know I like it and they say to themselves “oh, would it really hurt anything if he did once in a while,” and they come to the conclusion that it’s an effort that’s worth it because it makes me happy. It rarely ends up getting in their eyes. I am willing to do stuff for them that I might not want to do either. For instance, I hate choking/slapping women but it’s one of the most common requests I get from them - so I do it.
I don’t think that’s true that they only get honest with you if they don’t want you that much. From my experience, they get honest once they know you’re not going to be a crybaby about it. Which I always try to make clear from the first time we have sex. I’ve been in years long relationships with women who were honest about what they wanted in bed, and I don’t think we would have stayed in relationships for years if they “didn’t like me that much.”
Haha "pithy", never heard that before. I think it's positive. I got this little nugget of wisdom from this fabulous book:
https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Mark Manson also wrote a really good book about masculinity: Models
Here's a good book. It tells you to go after women based on "honesty." It leads to slightly better results than faking confidence since it's genuine and helps you realize that if a girl rejects you it's probably because you're a bad fit. It helps you move on.
https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
By Mark Manson
It is a huge challenge. When I wanted to get married at age 20, in my community of ~80 Baha'is, there were 3 eligible women:
A 30 year old divorcee with a kid, who had been married to a crazy man (also a baha'i in the community). She was pretty, sweet, and... I just couldn't do it.
A 20 year old like myself, stunningly gorgeous to the point where her boyfriend would get into fist fights with her Ex's. Lots of drama.
Another girl, nice, pretty and.... Never came to anything ever.
That was it.
Since then, I've learned the real trick is to go to lots of regional conferences, summer schools, any kind of big baha'i event in your cluster or province/state/region. You really have to be willing to HUNT.
The bigger and broader problem is that the economy in North America is in seriously bad shape. If you are lucky and find a trade or profession that pays 100k/year in a major city, you can actually afford to live and have a family. If you make close to the median income, you can usually barely afford to live yourself, let alone purchase real estate, and if you're renting, are renting with roommates.
I mildly fault the broader baha'i community for not supporting young marriage enough.
Another powerful point, is that for God's sake, Baha'i women are still WOMEN. If you want a wife, you need to be advertising yourself as prime husband material. Materially secure, mentally stable, well dressed, pleasant, charming etc. The whole bit. Read a book like "Models: Attracting women with Honesty" by Mark Manson, where talks about how to model success by being your authentic self.
There are numerous books out there that will change your mind about what you need to do in order to have a good marriage.
There are loads of great materials out there.
Edit: Oops, didn't realize you were a woman. I'm writing a seperate post.
It's been a while, but the book breaks down the mechanics of being a 'nice guy', in particular the 'transactional' nature of how they view relationships (especially with women), and then helps guys build behaviours that help them end that kind of thinking. If you find yourself thinking "I do all this for my crush/girlfriend/fiance/wife but they don't show interest/affection back", then it's perfect for you.
It's a really good book, but I would say it's only a beginning. I'd follow it up with Models by Mark Manson, and I have The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck on my bookshelf, but haven't opened it yet.
Dude your too available, it wreaks of desperation. She's playing the game, your playing yourself.
Personally I particularly like this book, the cover says it all for me:
Get a hobby, she's playing the game, your playing yourself.
Read Models by Mark Manson. Really helped me a lot, no pick up game bullshit. https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
You can buy it here: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/
I agree that gimmicky PUA shit isn't the way to go. I've read Mark Manson's book and it was helpful, but it's definitely helpful to get info from additional sources. These books are pretty essential IMO:
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Become-Man-Women-Want/dp/0316375365/
https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034/
https://www.amazon.com/What-Every-BODY-Saying-Speed-Reading/dp/0061438294
Here's the link btw in case it's confusing which book I was talking about: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Models: Attract Woman Through Honesty
https://smile.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
That sucks. I recommend you read this book https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_.w.5xb6X59PBB
Might I suggest this book.
you may want to give Models by Mark Manson, and No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover a read.
The titles might sounds like your typical over promising - under delivering types of books, but in reality those are about understanding yourself and your own expectations.
Damn, that is very hard to deal with. I'm glad you made this post though, because it's important to vent, and look for solutions.
This is a good opportunity to perhaps invest this emotion into something greater that will help you overcome any feelings of insecurity you have that end up becoming apparent in your relationships even when you don't realize it. You mentioned gaining weight? Perhaps join a fitness club, start adjusting some lifestyle habits. r/fitness has some great resources, you'll be surprised how many of those folks started because of something like this in their lives. If you feel like there's something wrong with the women you're attracted to, I like this guy's book (also this article might be more related). The book kind of comes off as one those PUA things but it has some really valuable lessons on vulnerability, and the stem causes of manipulative behavior.
Just find an interest that you can dedicate time to and never forget that time is the best healer. The line is so fucking cliche but it is very real. Things feel shit now, and it isn't easy. But give yourself time to think things over, and allow yourself to be mad because that shit does not sound fun. But don't just stop trying to make yourself better. Good luck dude.
Be cool (easier said then done, right?). Don't worry, don't be hard on yourself. Some advice:
- don't try hard, be yourself (girls can smell desperation)
- smile more
- talk to everyone (get comfortable to talking to everyone: men and women)
- STOP MASTERBATING, stop looking at porn, you will feel more alive than you ever have. But stop. Learn to control yourself. Self-control is a lifelong battle for every man.
- start lifting weights now, 5x5 is a good place to start
- slowly start buying clothes that fit you properly (it takes years to build up a good wardrobe, buy quality)
- check out r/seduction to get an idea on how to be comfortable around girls, just realize girls read this stuff too and know the tricks, so don't be a douchebag - remember you want to be charismatic and likeable, not fake and manipulative
- read Models and No More Mr Nice Guy
- again....exercise, join a sports team, get in the habit of exercising and eating healthy, whole foods....cut out junk food now.
- stop watching TV and porn, start reading books, read up on Marcus Aurelius
You have all of mankind's knowledge at your fingertips, use it...but use it wisely.
I'll leave you with a quote from Fight Club (great book by the way):
Warning: If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all that claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think every thing you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told to want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned- Tyler.
absolutely! don't just complain, take some action! You have everything inside you that you need to get great woman, sex, intimacy, success.... you just need to discover it. I would recommend some more books: Models, No more Mr. Nice Guy, How to be a 3 % man and watch some videos on youtube from this amazing life coach. But don't expect to be a quick fix. It will be one year, two years until you achieve something but know that you have to take action! This wont come on itself. MOVE! YO! ASS! :D Read read read, change your mindset!
Dear Stranger on the internet,
I think the question is a bit flawed, so it will be challenging for anyone to give you a satisfying answer. Is it normal to sleep with escorts? Sure. Is there anything inherently wrong with that? No, I don't think so. As a general rule, if an activity brings you satisfaction and doesn't cause any harm to yourself or others then it will be okay. I'll leave it at that because I think others here have already expressed this general idea better.
What I really hope to do in this post is to pass on some advice, from one internet stranger to another.
Firstly. you are young. so so young. at 22, you're basically still a kid. (I'm only 25! and I also still think I'm a kid!) but even looking back on the past 3 years I recognize how much I have changed and how much my attitudes (particularly concerning relationships and sex) have changed and matured. The point being: You're circumstances will change, and you will change in response. If you feel discouraged or disheartened by the way things are now then I want to remind you that you have a lot of life left to live :). Don't be too hard on yourself buddy.
Secondly, YOU have the power to change your circumstances. YOU have the power to change your attitudes. YOU have the power to change your outlook on life. Too often people get stuck in a rut and they lose sight of the crucial truth that there is virtually nothing in your life that can't be improved/developed/reassessed.
IF you take one thing away from my post, take this. Read Models by Mark Manson. It changed my life. the book is a mixture of a classic self-improvement book and a practical advice guide to interacting with women. But it is soooo much more than just that. Manson describes a healthy, comprehensive model for what true confidence actually is, and lays out some concrete steps that a person can take to get there. He argues that honesty should be the guiding principle in all aspects of ones life; be honest with yourself, your desires, and your interests. And express those things honestly to the world.
That description doesn't do the book justice, but I would strongly recommend you read it. It is fantastic in more ways than I have time or energy to describe.
I wish you luck and happiness in the future!
- Friendly internet stranger who read a book and thinks you should also read the book.
> Magari riesco a spiegarvi meglio i miei problemi e li capisco a pieno anche io.
Fai bene allora a chiedere. Come diceva Oliver Sacks, parlare non e' solo uno scambio di informazioni, ma un modo che il nostro cervello usa per elaborare attivamente le informazioni.
Detto cio, potrei sembrare banale ma ti consiglierei uno di queli libri di automiglioramento.
questo e' probabimente il piu consigliato su /r/seduction: http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358 (dai lo sappiamo tutti che vuoi fare questo sforzo di socializzare solo pero conoscere una ;)
A me poi e' piaciuto il vecchio libro di Carneige, che e' un libro praticamente centenario e da cui tutti i successivi "life-coach" e libri di self-help hanno riciclato: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People
PS: ti consiglio anche di leggere romanzi, secondo me aiutano ad affrontare le situazioni sociali
why hide your emotional attraction?
http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Oh boy you are in for a surprise,
I understand what you mean by this.
I personally had to somewhat get guidance from people, in the form of books, to understand dating because i was such a noob at it, i didn't understand nothing about it, i felt so perplexed on the topic.
However, quickfix solution is to think of "Rejection" as something that is not bad, think of it in positive terms, Rejection essentially exist to keep people that aren't compatible apart, it works that way, you wouldn't want to be locked to a person you hate/dislike.
so "rejection" is 'bad', it has a stigma that if you are rejected you have a personality flaw or are somewhat "unfit" or "unworthy" of acceptance. This IS NOT TRUE. I hope I changed your perception of rejection a little bit by now. just think if you get rejected "it just wan't meant for you" sorta mentality
REJECTION OR SCENE. this requires you to think, to induct rather than induct information to the scenario.
if you are worried a girls is going to make a "scene" and yell at you and call you up on your shit because you wanted to aske her out to said "i think you are cute", there is no way that happens, its an irrational fear, I mean like it can happen, but only if both of your personalities clash, aka you are a dick and she is a dick boom dick war. lol. that is how scenes are made. you yell she yells everybody yells.
NOw lets do a "inducing" exercise, think on the girls perspective. say if you were approached by a person who just asks you out or approaches you in good manner, why would you think you would "reject them" yelling at them unless you were a shitty person.
just think, if you were approached by somebody you didn;t know but had good intentions, but you aren't intrested, you are most likely to decline politely, "no thanks", "not now, thanks", "sorry, not intrested" all in a very civil non screaming matter. you would just decline politely and think nothing of it, you are just not intrested.
So just think if you are guy, with positive intentions and approaching to have fun and have good intentions with a girl, and she likes you boom "acceptance" and relationship might be born.
on the other hand if you have good intentions and the girl fucking snaps and calls you names and yells at you, that is not your problem!, you approached with good intentions and civil matter, it was no mistake of yours, its her, she is a dick for fliping nuts!, she maybe is having a bad day and she just wants an escape goad, or she is general has a dick behaviour on public spaces.
what im tryint to say if you approach women in a civil, respectful manner with good intentions, why the fuck would she flip bat shit, unless you done something to provoke it, if you did provoke it, well there you go what else did you expect!
so what i'm trying to get at is, think different about this things, they aren't black and white "if i get rejected i am unworthy" fuck no, that just means your personalities aren't compatible, or timing isn't right, like she is taken right now, or focused on something else, don't sweat too much on "aproach anxiety" and "rejection" just work through it and try to make things viewable in a positive light.
I know this process is hard, i know, it takes time trust me :D i understand. you feel fear, you might feel you are "naked" you have no personality and it takes time to find worthiness. but know its not a personality flaw but a workable malluable trait that you can work on and polish. social skills aren't as difficult as they seem.
But in general i do believe you need to work on your confidence/self-esteem and read some books on dating and women, just to get a "feel" for this things sometimes we need mentorship from people who think different than us, mentorship can come in the form of books, remember it was a person who took the time to write the book and shit. so you are taking perspective from a person.
lastly i want to recommend you a book, it deals with dating for the most part but it bleeds into other areas. this book is "the one" in terms of your dating, if you will only have to read 1 book in your life to deal with dating i'd suggest MODELS BY MARK BUY THIS BOOK ASAP!! and read it, really trust me is a no brainer, those 10-20 bucks will set up a foundation for your dating life, its true, its genuine and it shifts your way of thinking.
but if you wanted a list of books that truly impact you think about dating and women and confidence and not feel so lost anymore
here is my list
Models by mark manson
No more mr. nice guy by robert glover (the title is decieving read the book to figure out what its about)
Mode one by alan currie
and FINALLY
Double your Dating by DAVID deangelo
seriously that is for life changing books, I've read them and i can back them up. mostly on their entirely.
waht i suggest for you is a plan to read one book a week, you'll be "done" with this area of your life in a month if you read those books, also you might want to read further on contingencies, like if you have trouble reading body language then read a book on it, but that is later you mostly will be set with the books i gave you man.
hopefully i helped, and perhaps comment on me after a month or after you read a book, i don't like to talk just for empty air, you know, i want to be of help.
So go for it man
> sticking to a script and using techniques will improve my odds.
No. You have to cultivate a sense of core confidence, so that ANYTHING you say is good enough.
>need to filter myself a bit more or learn what not to say
Again, no, you should actually be filtering yourself LESS. Success with women is not about techniques, it's about who you are.
Read The Game for entertainment if you want, but it's an awful source of information for success with women. It's outdated. Sorry, but no way in hell should you be trying to 'NEG' women. If you want to read a great book, read Models by Mark Manson.
Also, Owen "Tyler" Cook is a guy who is presented in a bad light in the book. He has developed IMMENSELY and now is the boss of RSD, arguably the best pick up/self development company in the world.
yeah check them out, if they don't add value to my life or at least change your perpective on what you are doing, (i would make a statement of how much if they don't work i'll do something) but in this case, over the internet, i have nothing to say other than they will change how you think, or at least consider new perspective when appraoching goals/tasks. I personally guarantee it, if you don't change your life it just means you are laze, i swear read those two books, then two more, then two more, next thing you know you'll be a book reader and devour books, like no other scholar.
i'll leave the amazon links up so i'm basically giving you the books in your hands, trust me when i say the money you'll spend on those books will last a lifetime, that will pay off more than if you spend those 20 dollars in doritos and videogaming.
Models by mark (the dating/self dev book)
Compound effect by darren harren (self dev/shift on how to appraoch goals)
now go ahead and read them and don't let me down OP
Can't really do much via text - I found that this book really sets a good foundation, tho.
Dude, seek profissional help, psychologist will help you to deal with this kind of people. Also i recommend two books that will help you a lot on interpersonal relationship:
Models is seduction focused book, but these informations isn't just about seduction stuff, just read it. Models is one of the best books I have already read.
No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover
It will help to you give yourself the value you need.
check out Mark Manson's book Models too :)
http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358 read it. It'll be stright up-no bullshit-no games-no cheating "how to".
Open your mouth baby bird style, because you're about to get some mama bird knowledge, bro.
This is probably the only time you'll hear this on this sub, but fuck yeah dude. Congratulations. You're making the right step by first admitting you have a problem, and secondly by coming here.
You're seeking advice from fellow men on what to do. You're not going to get feel good answers, you're going to get honest truth.
Step 1) you're not the victim. YOU are the reason you're unhappy. I have been depressed and suicidal in the past. I was a victim of my circumstances in my head. You are not just a subject of your circumstances. You cannot control what people did or do to you but you damn sure can control how you respond.
Step 2) Start lifting. Go to /r/fitness or /r/bodybuilding or /r/gainit
Don't just nilly willy. Go to a fucking gym. Not planet fitness or crunch, but a real gym with squat racks and barbells. Start doing the Strong Lift 5x5 program. I know lots of dudes on it, and I'm about to graduate the program. It works. It's simple.
You've got to have the mindset in the gym that it doesn't matter what weight you're on in comparison to others. you're better than you were yesterday and youll be better tomorrow than you are today. The only person you need to compare yourself to IS yourself. Be better than yourself.
Read. Read. Read. Everything on the sidebar. Read Models by Mark Manson Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Rob Glover
Change your diet. Start eating healthy. YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS I DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN. WATER. Lots and lots of water. /r/eatcheapandhealthy /r/nutrition
Spend your money wisely /r/personalfinance . time to start saving and spending your money well
When you wake up, early in the morning, set an alarm and get up. make your bed. Shave (unless you have a beard). Get dressed, no sweatpants. Actually dress for the day. Clean your room.
You should be cleaning your clothes, room, sheets, house at LEAST once a week. Keep your car and house clean, keep your body clean by showering daily, keep your mind clean by quitting porn and start doing noFap, and keep the inside of your body clean by eating healthy/ lots of water.
You should be eating 3x a day AT LEAST. When you wake up, eggs, bacon/sausage, toast, oatmeal, OJ, black coffee. lunch, lots of lean meat and veggies, dinner the same. 3 full meals a day, when youre doing this right you wont need snacks. Cook your own meals. All of em. This will also make you happy to prepare something yourself, I dont mean microwave, I mean boil the noodles, cook the sausage and warm up the spaghetti sauce in a pot yourself over a stove.
Okay, so to recap. >eat clean, lean meats, veggies, lots of water, no fast food, no junk food
>sleep 8 hours every night
>work out, lift 3x a week, the other stuff you can add down the road (personally I lift MWF heavy weight, low reps (SL5x5), and then I rock climb Tues and Thurs nights, and I run W and F's after lifting. You can message me if you want to know my running drills, but I do mostly sprint training not so much long distance)
>clean your room
>take pride in personal appearance
>read books. Other good books to read, How to Win Friends & Influence Others, the art of war, etc
For now? Deactivate your tinder, instagram, facebook, snapchat, all of that. For now. Not permanently. In this transition phase it's going to be really hard. You want change? You gotta focus on yourself these next few weeks/ months. It's going to be hard but to get something youve never had youll have to do something youve never done.
When I started this TRP I weighed a lot less, never made any gains in the gym (though I worked out 5-6x a week), I didnt eat well, I was passed up for a promotion at work, and I lived in another part of the US. Since I started I was offered a managerial job that I didnt take, Ive switch jobs now twice for an increase in pay ($600 extra a month, so works out for me), change my diet, started eating cleaner, I moved 2,000 miles away from home to start new as who I am now. Not perfect, but learning to be a good and better man.
All my old friends didnt ever want to work out, run, lift, rock climb, anything. They just wanted to eat and watch netflix. Fuck that life. That was my life. I literally moved across country to start a new life with new friends with my new persona and its been hard but so good.
You gotta make changes.
Like /u/ebehrends said, you need to start working. Put school off for now, start working full time. Whatever you do, do it with gusto, with teeth. Give it meaning. Have purpose, be the best even if it is just pushing carts at Target. Who the hell cares? You're making money and working hard, learning life skills, experiencing life.
You're lifting just the bar on the bench press? Sick. Next week you'll be lifting the bar plus ten pounds (55lbs) Then the next, you'll be lifting 60lbs. Until you can get up to 300lbs. Youll get there, it doesnt happen over night, but youll get there.
Slow. Steady. Youll make it buddy.
You are not defined by your failures. You are not defined by your shortcomings.
You are a man. Made in the image of God. You are the product of hundreds of millions of years of evolution. You are a man. Time to start living like one.
None of this matters if you dont start wiggling the big toe. So wiggle your damn big toe. RIGHT NOW. Clean your room, put out the candles and dry those tears, cover up your man titties and start pulling yourself together.
FUCK YEAH DUDE. YOU GOT THIS.
BE THE MAN YOU WERE MADE TO BE.
THIS IS YOUR MOMENT. YOULL LOOK BACK IN FIFTY YEARS AT SOME YOUNG KID AND TELL HIM WHAT IM TELLING YOU NOW.
So fucking rise up.
You have worth. You're a human being, DAMN IT. Act like it.
Edit: Also, I'd recommend getting something to take care of. Like a gold fish for first. Then maybe once that dies (within a few months, circle of life bro), get a puppy. Something where YOU HAVE to take care of it or it dies. You have to feed it, clean it, walk it. Itll get you out more, exercise more, itll make you happy to take care of something, and its an easy icebreaker in meeting people (especially cute girls).
http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
I recommend this book if you're interested in improving your skills with women. Sorry if what I wrote above sounded offensive, I was just trying to be helpful.
I recommend you read "Models: attracting women through honesty"
http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=tmm_pap_title_0
THIS IS PART TWO of my reply. Read the other one first.
> I figured I might ask you this, since you seem to be a very down-to-earth guy
Just a little further down the road than you are, that's all.
> I really don't want to check pickup-sites for advice on this sort of stuff.
Banish that thought from your mind right now. Granted, PUA (Pick Up Artist) sites and books are typically manipulative and somewhat sociopathic, dating advice books and websites are a goldmine of information that you NEED to check out. I felt the exact same way as you did, and I held tight until I was 32 years old and realized I was about 15 years behind the times.
All my friends know how to date, and did things in the books and websites. Why do you want to ignore the advice and information that is the answer? Are you trying to learn to ride a bike ... alone ... with your eyes closed ... and your hands in the air? "You're gonna have a bad time."
Here are some must read books:
This one turned my world upside down. It was hard to swallow at first, but he is a genius. Please take the time to read it. If you do, and try even 5% of the advice, you will be 5% better than every guy out there who tries nothing.
This is a great book. I firmly believe in being honest with women, which is something you lack. This is a major flaw in your approach and personality. Essentially, when you do not make your intentions clear, you are a liar, a scumbag, a cheater. That is what is most detrimental to you as a person. You also have to learn to be honest with yourself.
And the guy who helped me understand women:
http://www.askmen.com/dating/doclove
Read his articles. Think about your past situations. See how they apply. I strongly recommend you buy his book, but check eBay for used copies first. The book is poorly written and organized, but it's the most brilliant advice on the planet. It's just so obvious.
> I'm not so good at the flirty-type of conversation;
So get out and practice. What I did was to go to the local upscale mall, where all the women who were working were drop dead gorgeous, and I'd go into each store and tell them I was looking for a gift for my friend who is a girl - but NOT my GF. I'd then ask them what they suggested was cool. Then they would suggest something and I'd playfully laugh and say something like "No, really? Oh come on, is that the best idea you can come up with? Did I mention I actually LIKE my friend and don't want her to hate me? What else do you have?" I'd smile big, laugh, and generally make her try harder to impress me. In the end I would walk away and say I'd have to think about it. But practicing like this upped my game tremendously.
The most important thing to do is NOT say the first thing that comes to mind, but rather the SECOND or THIRD thing. That second thing sets you apart from all the other guys who say the same things.
> my first relationship (which ended up being 2 years) happened when I was 18, and basically we talked online for a bunch of nights in a row, then I invited her over and we watched some Breaking Bad, and a second date later I asked her quote "Would you want to go out with me?" and that was that.
Yeah, but you were 18. Now you're 21. You're an adult. Women are adults. It's different now. You have to grow or you will be left far, far behind.
> Thanks a ton again for talking with me, really appreciate it.
You're welcome.
Now, let me ask you this - what other woman have you seen around school who you find attractive? How are you going to ask her out?
Tip: First dates should always be on Sun-Thurs night. NO first dates on Fri or Sat nights. So, if you get a number (your goal), wait 4-5 days to call her, then offer a date on a weekday night.
>But due to the nature of the girls I've been with, they create problems for me to solve, mental stresses to analyze, chances to offer alternate perspectives.
Ah, it sounds like you are codependent.
Mark Manson has a great book and blog for this stuff. He is also an INTP! Here is a really good excerpt from one of his blog posts that seems to describe your relationships.
You should read his book, Models. I found it very eye opening for a guy has difficulty expressing himself. It also makes you take an introspective look at your self and address any of your needy behavior.
Please read this book.
Read this book, it's amazing
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabt1_UpaXFb6MVGGKE
Some people are replying with unnecessarily rude posts or making assumptions about categorizing you. Ignore them.
Here's some very direct advice. Read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
You can buy it for less than the price of a burger, and it's genuine and helpful. It's certainly better advice and insight than a bunch of random internet strangers will get you.
This book is a pretty good start. Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
No offense to OP, and I'm sure many men (including myself) can identify with what he's saying, on some level. But according to a very helpful book I once (partially) read, "A man's attractiveness is inversely proportional to how needy he is. The less needy he is, the more attractive he will be to women on average. The needier he is, the less attractive he will be to women on average" (Mark Manson). The author goes on to explain:
>Neediness is when a man places a higher priority on others' perceptions of him than his perceptions of himself. A needy man's actions and words will therefore be primarily motivated by impressing and winning approval from others. Non-neediness is when a man places a higher priority on his own perception of himself than the perceptions of others. A non-needy man's actions and words will therefore be primarily motivated by embodying his own values and desires. (p. 11)
This post is dripping with neediness. I can certainly relate to men who feel this way, but I think men need to realize that this is a turn-off for women. Baring your true feelings and making yourself vulnerable can be attractive, but these kinds of feelings are unattractive.
Guys, if you want to be more attractive to women, here are my suggestions:
- Get over your fear of approaching women. Some women are going to reject you. Accept that. Get over it. It's not the end of the world. Apparently, Albert Ellis went and asked 100 women out on a date to overcome his anxiety. All of them said "no." If I went out and asked 100 women on a date today, I'm sure the overwhelming majority would turn me down. I don't care that much. You shouldn't either.
- Stop worrying so much about being ghosted. Don't overspend on your first date with a woman you hardly know. Build a relationship with her first. Buy her an ice-cream, maybe. If she ghosts you, so what? You spent $5.00 figuring out that it wasn't the right match. Try again with somebody else.
- Chances are that you are in fact "capable enough" for at least 1 woman. You just have to find that 1 woman.
- It's nice to be complimented on your looks, but focus on looking good in your own opinion. That's what's more important.
- Get over your fear of being ghosted. Keep "scratching those tickets" until you find the winner. The fact that certain women don't want to be in a relationship with you doesn't say anything particularly important about you as a man. For every man, there are certain women who don't want to be in a relationship with them.
- Obviously we want women to like us back, but it's okay if people don't like you.
Women, feel free to correct me if you think I got this screwed up.
I recommend this book http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
> But more to the point, the only reason for it to be an awkward moment is if she's not digging him and doesn't know how best to turn him down
The "awkwardness" comes from the vulnerability of the situation. She's being forced to showcase her attraction or reject him publicly.
>The way to make it not awkward is to believe (and so act like) it's the most normal, reasonable thing in the world - relaxed, and matter-of-fact, without any reason to be assertive.
You can't "believe" your way out of very real circumstances.
> To say it's "socially calibrated" implies that it's an accurate description of the situation. But what does it really communicate?
It communicates that you understand that what you're doing isn't necessarily normal (it's not - mostly because most men today don't have the confidence to do it).
To drive home my point, here's a quote from Mark Manson from his book Models (widely regarded as the definitive guide on seduction in the post-feminist world):
> [...] telling her that you find her beautiful and you'd like to take her out sometime, is quite bold. It's bold because it requires a lot of courage to disrupt social norms and it requires a bit of vulnerability. But there's a caveat here. You must know that you're interrupting social norms. You must acknowledge that what you are doing is unusual. If you don't, you'll be seen as someone who is out of touch and oblivious, which is not attractive.
Essentially, she wants to date someone who is socially calibrated; someone she can introduce to her friends without fear of embarrassment.
I hope this helps to explain :).
With good looks, confidence, and money, your chances are good. Biggest success rate change for me was learning to be forward--not submissive (/r/TheRedPill, Models, etc).
Online dating is tough. It's swarmed with guys and the girls there are often spoiled by their attention. I still use AM/OKC/CL, but the girls are typically much less attractive than my real life pickups. Still worth a run in most people's opinions. It's a better hobby than TV.
Picking up girls in the real world is the most fun, and if you have any swagger, your best odds.
But honestly, you should get a divorce. Staying married to this woman horribly hinders your options. There are troves of lovely 18-35yo ladies that'd date/marry/procreate with a 50yo man. Your current wife can remain a friend, but "I happen to be legally married" is something you need to tell a woman before you fuck her, and it runs a lot of them off.
Younger women will date an older married man, too. But the relationships are much more likely to be shallow and just be about sex or money. I don't recommend cruising for single girls and lying to them about your married status btw. That ends very badly.
Ah. You're a feminist. It all makes sense now.
>Okay, don't try to paint PUA as something that helps those on the autism spectrum...There are a myriad of other ways to improve your communication skills without a creepy undercurrent of misogyny.
I gave you an accurate definition of what PUA does and have explained to you as per your lack of understanding. Nothing inventive or however you want to conjure it up to be. And this is pretty accurate; however, I'll play devils advocate and define it as the term Wikipedia defines it as. "A pickup artist is a man who trains in the skills and art of finding, attracting, and seducing women." But seduction can really mean anything, and to you it means oppressing women in the most blanket accusation possible. If the creepy undercurrent of misogyny requires that men go out on their own to meet girls in attempt at the expense of his time and the possibility of rejection, all while he has to do all of this voluntarily, and under the presumption that he will only be successful if the woman he courts voluntarily mates with him. Do I just sit and wait for a woman to come to me? Of course not! I go and pursue them. It's a given.
>As per my understanding of PUA: you are required to view women as disposable and interchangeable if you expect to use the same set of rules/guidelines in order to lay us all.
It's only funny to me because this is the first time I've heard of this. You are free to do as you please with the women you've seduced. You can fuck, keep as a friend or girlfriend/future wife, or not have anything to do with them the next day. The choice is yours and not hers because both of you have consented to courtship. The reversal plays true as well. She has a choice for whatever she wants. But how exactly do you come to that conclusion that women are disposable. It makes zero sense to me.
>they find a way to date the women they've always wanted? Ignoring what the woman wants?
You can't have one without the other. You can't have seduction without reciprocated attraction. This man is exactly what the woman wants. Otherwise it becomes rape. Does PUA advocate rape? If you're saying yes to that, than there is no way I could ever persuade you that water is wet or the sky looks blue.
>Your complete and utter failing is your assumption that all women want the same kind of companion. You have a checklist for what makes an "attractive man". Women are individual people with individual desires and tastes, and you can't rely on being good looking, rich, or having a nice car to guarantee a relationship with the opposite sex. Not all women find the same physical form appealing (hint: it's not what Men's Health advertises as the perfect body. Men's Health is selling you something.), just like not all women find an expensive car an appropriate marker for a potential lifemate/sex partner.
I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say with this. PUA takes no consideration for your material possessions and actually forces you towards courtship in spite of these lack of possessions.
It's generally understood that a majority of women are attracted to several fundamental traits of men (i.e, confidence, sociability, self-assertiveness). If this isn't the case, then you wouldn't have men who sleep with women on a daily basis. And a great majority of these men have the capabilities of a proven PUA.
>None of your PUA tricks are long-term techniques for effective communication, which is all that really matters in a relationship.
Again, you use this word "tricks" but what does this actually mean? Negging? Peacocking? Routines and sequences? All of which is considered outdated in the community, for good reasons.
It's understood that seduction is a linear process (Meet, attraction, comfort, and seduction)
>Confidence, assertiveness, and social graces get you NOWHERE if your goal is a meaningful connection with someone. PUA tactics aren't sustainable. You need to have someone behind your eyes, you need to have your own likes, desires, dreams, hates, aspirations, history, issues, bullshit, because that is what makes a person interesting and attractive.
All of this is dealt with in a variety of ways, as there is no one entire method to the approach, each with strengths and faults. Some people work from the outside in, and some from the inside out. Neil Strauss was a seducer and now has landed in a marriage with a model of Mexican Descent. This wouldn't have been possible with Game.
With what you have concerns with, is focused under a subset called "Inner Game". Which teaches you and forces you to leave your comfort zone and to develop an attractive lifestyle which makes your argument null.
I'll give you my own example.
I have make a comfortable living. While being a PUA, I've become a breakdancer, a mixed martial artist, orator, fine artist, bodybuilder, gymnast, poker player, card counter, and i study a third language. None of these necessarily makes me an attractive man, but it does add variety to my lifestyle and tastes where there were none.
There are many examples of literature in the field which deal with "Inner game"
There is Real social dynamics, Stealth Seduction, Natural Game
>I would encourage men to improve their self worth, but you've prescribed a very limited, shallow set of priorities for your group. PUA is destructive to the men that practice it because it's disingenuous.
I would say otherwise, but I don't much time to finish my discourse. Just know that I think you should take a second perspective into this before you make conclusions such as this.
I know some people say don't look at r/theredpill and they're mostly right. but doing some PUA stuff is kinda nice in this. alot of time, women is attitude and confidence.
A lot of PUA is bullshit and garbage. but the idea is fine. self improvement is great. /r/seduction is kinda meh. If i had a book to recommend to you. i'd read Mark Manson: Models
I don't know how widespread negging is, all I can tell you is that the common explanation that it's a manipulation tactic with the goal of "lowering her self-esteem" doesn't necessarily apply. Personally, I like to tease girls in a fun way that gets both of us laughing, which I think is a pretty normal thing to do... But it probably could be construed as 'negging', even though my goal sure as hell isn't to make her feel bad.
And recently there was this thread, where most guys agreed with OP's mindset. The book by Mark Manson he's referring to is called Models: Attract Women Through Honesty and has become a huge trend recently.
That's plain false. Some are rooted in manipulation and became famous on TV because they're a sensation. Others are rooted in boring concepts such as self-improvement and honesty.
stronglifts 5x5 (stronglifts.com). start lifting, it's quick (30~ min if you're quick) and fun watching yourself improve
ketogenic diet (/r/keto), low carb, high fat. kicks your body in ketosis causing you to use your stored fat for energy
read "models: attract women through honesty" a great book about being a man (no cheezy pickup line stuff)
If you really want to change, do yourself a favor and read this book.
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