What is reddit's opinion of Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It?

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I'm reading a similar book: Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It. It's actually just a straight up clinic on persuasive communication.

While it's not directly CRE related, I like Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. It's a hostage negotiator's take on human behavior and how to capitalize on the innate tendencies of people under pressure. Kind of a cross between the Netflix series Mindhunter and a sales book. Definitely fun to read if you're in to criminal history, but also useful for the give-and-take of CRE deals.

Kannattaa lukea [link] mutta käytännössä teet niin että yrität saada sen työnantajan sanomaan oman tarjouksen ja sitten tingit ylöspäin. Jos tuo ei onnistu niin annat omasta mielestä ihan poskettoman mutta jollain tasolla järkevän palkkatarjouksen mieluiten haarukkana tyyliin 5k - 7k. Sitten vaan odottamaan vastatarjousta josta neuvottelet sitten ylöspäin niin paljon kun mahdollista.

It sounds like you may be quite conservative with your pricing. I bet they think they are getting a good deal.

I follow a few loose rules when it comes to pricing:

1. The client should think it's expensive, but worth it. As in, their eye should twitch a little the first time you tell them your pricing, but tell you after the job is done that it was worth every dollar.
2. If they don't push back on pricing you left some money on the table. There are entire books on negotiation (my fav) but if they don't negotiate it means they were likely willing to pay more and felt like they got a deal and didn't need to negotiate.
3. Negotiating on pricing isn't a confrontation. You want to work with them, they want to work with you, it's simply a civil discussion around the terms.
4. If they get mad at your pricing do you really want to work with them? That means they may be trying to manipulate you or negotiate in bad faith, or they don't think you're worth the cost. Both are excellent reasons not to work with someone.
5. People will pay what you convince them you're worth. They don't know what a good UX writer is worth, it's your job to tell them and convince them that $XXX/hr is worth it.
6. If it feels like you're charging too much and it makes you nervous to present the price, you're probably doing great. Everyone -- big famous agencies included -- are essentially faking it and trying to get away with charging as much as they can. It's all a big game basically, so why not aim for the fences.
7. Once you set a price you're kinda anchored there, so set it higher to start. The worst thing they can say is no.

Hope this helps!

Never Split the Difference is one of the better books about negotiations. It is an entertaining read with worksheets and tools that are easy to apply, and they explicitly discuss compensation discussions many times.

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I never said that we should feel guilty about it, those are all your words. I also never said that the natives were peaceful. I'm only suggesting that it doesn't hurt to consider the losers, which is what you seemed to mock in your original comment. You are correct though, the winners move on and the losers don't, thats how it's always been. Siding only with the losers would not be beneficial, but learning from them might.

Also, I was not intending to come off as passive aggressive in my original comment. I was attempting to try a word-technique from a book I'm reading ([link]) where you restate what the person says (using an opening phrase like "it sounds like"/"it seems like"/"It looks like") to see if you are hearing/reading them correctly. You took it much more negatively than I expected. Apparently, I've got some work to do on that front.

If I may though, I'd like to ask a further question on your opinion on this subject. Again, this is not intended to be a slight against you in anyway, I'm just trying to understand you and your position better:

It seems like you tend take a pragmatic view of historical events, rather than labeling a side as right or wrong. Sort of a "These things happened, feeling good or bad about them isn't helpful" kind of thing. Would that be fair to say?

I like to read books that are not usually about business but see how the technicques and mindset applies. For example 'Never Split The Difference' is also a great book for learning negotiation skills ([link])

The fact that those were old is totally irrelevant. Too much emphasis on that. They were sales people. And you can beat them in their weasel game. Read something like Never split the difference for a start.

Also, I have to add that amazingly, there are exceptions. I know sales people who are actually after a profit/living like all of us but are still relaxed and pretty decent human beings with enough empathy to avoid being evil just to line their pockets - truly looking for win-win scenarios where they make some and you're well served.

So, almost everyone here says you should not renegotiate. I am going to disagree with that and say you never lose anything by negotiating, unless you do it very, very wrong.

Couple points:

• At this point, they sunk a lot of time and effort to find you, they won't rescind the offer, they will just say no to the raise
• Negotiating when you're working there is going to be more difficult than now. Plus there's nothing stopping you from doing both
• Salary negotiations will be forgotten by anyone about a month in. You're not setting yourself up to fail by asking for more
• If they say anything other than "That sounds like a lot" to your initial offer, you've low balled yourself. Especially if they respond with something along the lines of "Seems reasonable".

On how to actually phrase this: I like your approach, and would say being honest is usually good policy. When you get the call with their offer, you can say something like: "Thanks for the offer. Based on the interview process and research I've done, I really think I'd enjoy working with the team, <more reasons why you like company >. I really appreciate your offer of X. However, upon doing further research on the salaries among my peers, it seems top companies in this area are paying between <your new range, low end ~+20% of their offer>". And then you shut up and wait for their response. Couple things can happen:

• they come back and say "sure", give you lower end of new range. Success!
• they come back and say "can't do that, <reasons>", and meet you half way or don't budge at all. This is your decision now. Either accept or push them further. Just note that pushing after a "no" might actually cost you the offer

Couple points on how to do the negotiation:

• always give them a way to say no without loosing face. Don't say "Give me 60k, or I go to your competitor" or "Anything below 60k is unreasonable".
• express a lot of interest and excitement about the job. The goal is to convey you really like the company and role, and it's now just the money that stands in the way
• if they don't budge on salary at all, try asking what other things they can do. Maybe you can get a hiring bonus, extra vacation, whatever matters to you. Might be easier for them to provide and as valuable to you

Good luck!

Source: Analytics team manager, hired several people over the years and been in your position more than once. I never once lost the offer because of negotiation. I got paid much less than my peers at the same company because I didn't negotiate several times.

Also, if you're curious about the topic, I'd recommend a book called Never split the difference. Explains a lot of negotiation dynamics in great detail, but gives very applicable tips

Deal link: Amazon

Deal link: Amazon

Knjiga je verovatno Never split the difference :)

This actually illustrates the logic of 'getting to no' instead of yes:

https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended-ebook/dp/B014DUR7L2

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Just saw <em>Never Split the Difference</em>. Are you familiar with it? Like it?

I definitely hear you, and I empathize random people who thinks that money that companies make belong to them.

In my personal experience, in the last 8 years (since I moved to United States), this government proved itself incapable of the simplest things, not even mentioning controlling Big Money.

Yes, I would rather have Amazon keep every last dollar to reinvest into all the amazing services and goods it continues to provide than to tax them and let that orange imbecile to build a wall, imprison more kids or go to golf courts with it.

And additionally, as a small business owner, the tax break was crucial for our family side business, which definitely resulted in much better service I now be able to provide to my customers.

I will strongly disagree on the “stolen profits which rightfully belong to the American people” part, tho. Regardless of one’s opinion on the policies, all businesses always have loopholes to use, and unless they are evading taxes, it would be delusional to expect companies to pay taxes from reinvested profits or expenses. What rightfully belongs to you is $.16 raise, not OTHER PEOPLE’S money.

P.S. I’m sorry that you’re raise didn’t go as you expected. There is a fantastic book on negotiations that I can recommend, called Never Split Difference . And other places always offer better salary options than the current place offers raise, so there are always options.