Does your boyfriend do any kind of therapy? CBT? Perhaps he genuinely tries to change, but nobody told him how to do it besides meds.
He can do yoga and meditation. And he can learn to plan his goals in a way that works around, or even embraces his limitations.
There are also some good books on learning how to be a successful adult on adhd on Amazon.
If he's unwilling to go for therapy / work on himself, I'd say give up.
As for promiscuity - I'd say this is unchangeable. You may talk him into not doing it in front of you, but, for example in my case - I tried monogamy so hard, and just couldn't.... There's a good book on open relationships though - https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X - there are many variants of this, perhaps you guys can figure sth out. If not, it may end up in having to choose you being frustrated with polyamory, or him with monogamy. Neither one is any good.
>I find myself wanting a more physical relationship with someone [...[ I feel terrible for feeling this way.
You shouldn't, though, you are just a normal human being. It is perfectly normal to feel attracted to others even when in a monogamous relationship.
How about you and your partner read "Opening Up", for example? Having a common framework to discuss non-monogamy would allow you both to have more meaningful conversations.
Good luck!
if you actually want to have the conversation about nonmonagmy with your wife, i recommend the book Opening up (it talks about more forms of nonmonogamy than polyamory or swinging). It sounds like you broached this subject before, and it may have ways of talking about it that allow you and your wife to discuss shared expectatons/boundaries and ways that an open relationship to allow you to get some dick could work for you (not that it necessarily will end in that, but articulating your desires is better than repressing your feelings, which only grow resentments imo)
It sounds like you guys jumped into ENM without much research or planning, and obviously people got hurt. I would refrain from doing that again!
If you're serious about ENM, I'd read up on it and put some serious effort into communicating with your husband - study up alongside him, talk about what worked, what didn't, how you felt, and your boundaries. I'd recommend this book as a starting point.
Opening Up: A Guide to Creating... https://www.amazon.com/dp/157344295X?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
A couple weeks ago, I was reading a book about it, trying to research before even bringing it up. There's a list of questions that I was going over and one of them stuck in my brain. I thought about it for a while, then asked my husband what he thought. That just got the ball rolling on what I was reading, why I was reading it, and how I've been feeling lately about 'us.' He was pretty surprised when I brought it up, but he didn't take it badly. By the end of the conversation we were making jokes about double dates and stuff. No decisions were made.
We've had a few more conversations about it since then, one going really badly, and the other a little better. Still no decision has been made, I'm not really expecting one too soon. My husband said he'd read the book and we'd go from there.
my girlfriend (primary partner) and i are both polyamorous and it's been working well so far. I also have a boyfriend who's in a nearby city and will date around when i'm not particularly busy (she's dating people too, and we do group stuff together). Polyamory is pretty great, but it's not for everyone; we went into the relationship knowing that neither of us wanted to be monogamous (in large part bc we're both bi) but converting an existing monogamous relationship to an nonmonogamous one can be a challenge. I've seen a lot of people do this without really having strong communication skills and ability to talk around boundaries, needs etc. and it cause a lot of heartbreak for all involved (including myself).
Opening up is a pretty good resource on open relationships. Also, polyamory is just one form of ethical nonmonogamy. "Having a stable relationship with a woman but hooking up with guys when you're craving men" isn't really polyamory.
I would ask her if she'd want to read opening up and talk about it with you. It's pretty comprehensive about this kind of thing and talking through potential issues/what it would look like etc. instead of you just winging it.
So I am not ace but have a relatively low libido especially when compared to my partner, so I can give some insights. The first thing I will say is that I kind of feel like youre looking for is not what most of us consider to be polyamory, but more ethical non-monogamy. Polyamory to us means dating and deeper connections (its a little more complicated than that but then we're getting into full blown theory instead of a beginners course). People aren't sexual outlets, if your wife wants a sexual outlet, hire a sex worker.
Assuming this is a miscommunication, and you are actually looking for a look into polyamory, then I would suggest a lot of the different polyamory resources in general. A lot of the same rules apply sex or not. Opening Up may be a good start, I personally read More Than Two for my start, but the author of that book was said to be an abuser so be careful with that one.
Start thinking about your boundaries with what you are comfortable with. Are you ok meeting this person? Thoughts on Holidays, trips? Are you ok with them sleeping over this persons house? etc... Once they are defined, then think about if it is ethical to open up. If you are uncomfortable with your partner receiving an emergency call while on a date with you, then don't open up. Theres a million different ways to be an unethical polyamorist, a lot of them are common sense when you look at it from another person perspective.
Aka your sexuality doesn't really change the name of the game too much.
I liked "polysecure" a lot but it's not really a polyamory basics book. It's great if you are interested in attachment theory. I enjoy podcasts and I've heard good things about "mutiamory"
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I don't see "opening up" listed very frequently but I think it's a solid book to go through if you are taking the step from mono to non mono with a partner.
​
https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
Amazon link to that book, since someone asked! Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships https://www.amazon.com/dp/157344295X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_dkQxDbMS21Y8A
We preferred the audio book - normalized things even more to have a sweet older woman reading it.
>He wants to have his cake and eat it by keeping the emotional stability and support with me, and also fulfill whatever sexual desires he has.
You also "want to have your cake and eat it" by choosing to be physically away and expecting him to stay celibate, wouldn't you agree?
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> If anything I just want him to get what he needs and get out. No same person twice.
How would you feel about someone who fucked you and immediately discarded you?
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> If you loved someone wouldn't you do your best to wait for them?
Conversely, if you loved someone, wouldn't you stay physically with them instead of pursuing your own interests abroad?
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>How do you guys deal with this?
Here's my advice: you both buy this wonderfull book entitled "Opening Up", read it and proceed from there.
>So what should I do?
Start by understanding what it means to "open up". My suggestion is for both of you to buy and read this wonderful book appropriately titled "Opening Up". It will give both of you the tools and the necessary framework to discuss non-monogamy in a rational and understanding manner.
Good luck!
I'm not sure I believe story but I'm going to play along.
There's a very good book you need to get and all three of you need to read called Opening Up by Tristan Taoromino
This sort of thing, even if it's just for fun, can turn into an emotional infield that can rip relationships apart. This is, by far, the best book on open and other none traditional types of relationships.
There are a lot of questions to ask, discussions to be had, and decisions to be made about whether to go down this road and if so, how to don't in an ethical emotionally safe manner.
One thing you might want to think about very carefully. Right now this is about you and two straight (?) men. What would you do if your husband wanted two women or a just another woman. As often as people say, "oh that will never happen" they get a nasty surprise.
Good luck.
Agreed. This is a totally foreign subject for you and it is one regarding identity, this isn't a preference that someone decides they are Poly. It's about learning who each person is, not a choice. If this is really who she is she likely has a lot of exploring to do as well. Me (poly) and my partner(mono) are going through Opening up by Tristan Taormino. It has a lot of good questions for everyone, monogamous or otherwise, to figure out how each persons desires. In this case it will help you bring you towards answers about what your needs are what hers are and how to start to navigate them responsibly.
If she rushes things, best guess is that it is bad news. If she loves you she will take plenty of time. You can wait two days for amazon to deliver the book before diving into a conversation you are so unfamiliar with.
Thanks very much for your reply. Its appreciated.
I'm assuming by limiting, you mean that either myself or the other partners in the relationship are likely to want to continue to explore other partners? If not, could you expand on that.
Thank you very much for the book ideas!! I had never thought about reading into this (other than via Google), and will definitely pop them on my Kindle. (Off topic, the paperback version is apparently £1399.00 from Amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X - must be a damn good read!!).
You can love and care for and about more than a single person at a time.
As others have mentioned I'd suggest looking into polyamory. If you're a reader pick up the book "Opening up"
If you would like someone to talk to or help be a guide while looking into these things /r/polyamory is a decent place but feel free to PM. Just having a single person to talk to and help you sift through all the info can make a world of difference, I know that for certain.
If you're a reader there are some good books out there for this. The one I always see recommended first is Opening Up.
Hi!
Nothing wrong with an open relationship if you talk about it. Let's say you do get into a relationship with this girl and you start to love her and you want to be with her. Great!
For me and my SO, we agree that we are still attracted to other people. We've spoken to each other and agreed to an open relationship. She can date other guys, and I can date other girls. But we have rules.
Some of the rules are 1. No spending the night at the other persons house. 2. When one person comes home, take a shower.
As long as you communicate and respect boundaries that you and the girl set up, everything should be fine.
Also, being in an open relationship has opened up more communication channels. I was afraid to talk about other women in front of my SO in fear she would get mad. But now with the open relationship, we feel free to talk about people we find attractive.
(Here)[http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439918982&sr=8-1&keywords=open+relationships] is a book on open relationships that my SO and I read before jumping into an open relationship.
I would suggest you both read some more information, perhaps Opening Up. If you do decide to open the relationship, a lot of discussions ahead of time are essentially a prerequisite. Set boundaries about expectations. Obvious things like safety, less obvious things like how much you want to hear about each others' partners/the sex they're having.
I view open relationships as a tradeoff. If you are monogamous, you don't have to deal with feelings of jealousy as much, but you have to deal with being unable to pursue others and the emotions that entails. If you are open, you now have to deal with jealous feelings but less of the inability to pursue. People and their partners are different about which emotions they'd rather work through.
All that being said, her wanting to do it "for your benefit" and not being interested in others herself is a HUGE red flag. I'm a big supporter of open relationships, but please do some research and discuss the possibility with each other a LOT more before making any big decisions.
/r/nonmonogamy.
Also, /r/polyamory may be relevant though more focused on romantic relationships, not just casual sex. They still have a lot of experience on setting boundaries and expectations, though, so probably a good idea to cross post to both and do your research.
The book, Opening Up by Tristan Taormino talks a lot about building and establishing healthy open relationships. From how to talk about it, to what to talk about, even establishing expectations about frequency of "outside contact" is covered, so it should be a great resource for you.
Also, you have valid desires and needs, too. I really need to emphasize this. It's okay for you to have some reasonable boundaries and expectations regarding time spent with you, and when it's appropriate to schedule outside hookups.
You guys should probably calm things down and take the time to build a solid basis of understanding what both of you want and need out of this before continuing.
Please read Opening Up : http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
It is about open relationships, which you may or may not want explicitly, but it will give you a lot more perspective and insight in to the world outside of standard 'monogamy' as pushed on to us all from birth.
Another great book is The Ethical Slut. You could also check out /r/polyamory
Don't ever feel guilty for deriving pleasure from an activity which causes no harm.
Oh, and I would add that I didn't read all of Ethical Slut, but in general I preferred Opening Up by Tristan Taormino. I would suggest reading up on open relationships in general because it'll help you approach them and the feelings that arise from a different place.
Start by reading the /r/polyamory FAQ if you haven't yet.
There are many good books out there, and reading any of these will help fill in a lot of blanks for you:
Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships
The Polyamory Toolkit: A Guidebook for Polyamorous Relationships
Building Open Relationships: Your hands on guide to swinging, polyamory, and beyond!
If you like listening to podcasts, there are a couple good ones I follow: Multiamory Podcast and Polyamory Weekly.
Go slow, read lots, and follow your heart.
Ugh. There is a reason we say "ethical non-monogamy". Cheating, not telling you, then thrusting you into an open marriage when it's not what you want is totally unethical and a super duper jerk move in my book.
I feel for you. And I can be empathetic towards her. Perhaps she only recently has come to accept that she isn't heterosexual, maybe she's dealt with a lot of sex and slut shaming growing up, and she hasn't been honest with her emotions. And I can see a reality where she just kinda exploded in a messy way and didn't know how to navigate this lovingly in a way that made you feel safe.
The way that this came up is completely devastating and you are valid to have your hurts, loss of trust, and fears.
But I still wanna smack the back of her hands. Bad wife, bad!
That being said...
There are a number of ways for you guys to explore non-monogamy if you'd like. Swinging, "open while traveling", poly, etc. She did open the door the for you guys to communicate about what you want and how to grow together, and that is awesome.
You may want to read
The first two will help you understand how to navigate opening your marriage if you want to do that. And the latter will help you rebuild trust and understand navigate the new shift in your relationship.
Also, please try and look for a sex-positive poly-friendly therapist. They will help you guys navigate this without being shamed or shutting her down for her desires.
----- edited for link readability. Didn't realize Amazon mobile adds the book title to the front of the link. :)
>The jealousy and anger is crippling at times.
Jealousy is really common, but I have to say this is the first time I've read about someone feeling anger. Personally, I'd tap the brakes until I figured that one out. Maybe you two can read about ENM and work on the emotions. This book Opening Up is a classic (currently reading it). The Ethical Slut is also a good one. They devote entire chapters to jealousy.
Good luck! 🍀
"opening up" is pretty good.
https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
I like polysecure it's more of a deep dive into polyamory and attachment theory.
https://www.amazon.com/Polysecure-Attachment-Trauma-Consensual-Nonmonogamy/dp/1944934987
A few more resources:
- Opening Up (already mentioned)
- Smart Girl's Guide to Polyamory (This is quickly becoming the de-facto polyamory bible. Ignore that it's titled for women - it's for everyone).
- Multiamory Podcast (you can search on a variety of topics. Some I'd suggest: relationship anarchy, hierarchy, emotional responsibility)
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I HIGHLY suggest you and your wife read and consume this content together. Spend time at reading or listening together. This will ensure you're both on the same page and defining the future of your relationship together.
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I'm 11+ years in an open marriage. We opened up around 1.5 years after some relationship drama. We've made plenty of mistakes along the way and have survived until now.
PM me if you have more personal questions.
There are tons of great books and podcasts available these days for helping navigate polyamory, whether you're just getting interested or have been living it for decades
Opening Up by Tristan Taormino isn't exclusive to Polyamory and focuses on opening an existing relationship
Smart Girls Guide to Polyamory by Dedeker Winston has been one of my favorites and is more modern than many other poly-specific books. She also co-hosts a podcast called Multiamory that has a huge backlog of episodes on general and specific topics within Polyamory.
The Ethical Slut by Hardy and Easton has been the non-mono bible for ages. It is focused on explaining the different types of non-mono relationships and reclaiming what it means to be a slut (IF that's your thing. Not every non-mono person considers themselves a slut). So, not the best for learning how-to, but still very informative.
Sex at Dawn by Chris Ryan and Cacilda Jetha doesn't really fit on this list but it's my favorite so I threw it in. It is an anthropological take on non-monogamous relationships that helps refute the common misconception that we are "evolved for monogamy" (spoiler: we aren't evolved for any specific type of relationship). A similar, and easier read, is Untrue by Wednesday Martin
The book "Opening Up" had the interviewee statistics in the back. On Amazon, go to "Look Inside!" and jump to page 337 (link: https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X)
https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
Before you and SO go any further you both should read this and do more research where needed.
I think you mean envy. Or... did you mean jealousy after all? Or a mix of both?
Envy: My GF has a new lover. I envy this. I want a new lover too. (They have something you want for yourself)
Jealous -- I have a GF. I'm scared this new BF is going to take her away. (I have something I am afraid someone else will take away.)
When you come to share sex with your GF... what makes it weird?
Are you sad? Experiencing grief? That things have changed now, you aren't the only lover?
Are you feeling icky? Like grossed out someone else has been sharing sex with her?
You could try the "Opening Up" book and doing the worksheets. You could examine how you define intimacy. It's not about "only one, exclusive" any more. So what else besides that matters to you?
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The Ethical Slut is sort of the old school bible of ENM. It can be a bit dated at times. I've heard good thing about Opening Up when it comes to exploring different forms of ENM and transitioning from a mono relationship to ENM.
https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
>It's kind of like I can feel that I'm jealous and then I ask myself why I'm jealous, and realize I'm just thinking in some kind of default 'dont let anyone touch your things' type of way, which I don't care for.
I have come to the conclusion that jealous doesn't exist, and that's it's simply a word for a combination of envy and insecurity. I've found things about it in this way has made it a lot easier for me to navigate.
>Did you proactively change the way you looked at relationships somehow? (Like deprogramming yourself from alot of the stupid and codependent thought you have)
Being proactive is the only way to do this, so you have the right idea. There is so much conditioning we've gone through that what ENM involves is "wrong".
I didn't recognise so many codependent habits I had until I began exploring ENM. Sometimes you have to step away to actually see something.
>What are some good resources for looking into more info on this? (Just give me your damned links :)
The best book I know is Opening Up by Tristan Taormino. It's a great resource for figuring out what you want from ENM, rather than trying to copy what others are doing.
Medium is also a great free resource for polyamory. A bit of a search will find a great community of people writing about their experiences. Start with Polyamory Today and Discovering Polyamory and you'll find some great writers.
>And any advice or tips that you may have
So many lol. But if I had to pick one, it would be to prepare to take your ego out of your relationships. With ENM, you will see your partners finding happiness and excitement that is completely separate to you. And a lot of us find it hard to accept our partners don't need us to be happy, or worry that if they don't need us they will leave.
Tbh, your diction isn't putting your best foot forward, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
The background doesn't matter much except that it provides a basic picture. It's possible he's just a POS, and possible he's not. Since you are so keen to try and understand, makes me think he's not just a POS.
But what you are definitely doing is trying to force society's "one-size-fits-all" puritanical indoctrination on your relationship. You are saying that you are certain that he is getting everything he desires, so what the fuck gives?
Not everyone is built for monogamy, and people don't come to understand this about themselves at the same rate. If he knew this before you got together, shame on him for not letting you know in the beginning (but he's human, afterall). But it's possible that when you got together he was still suffering under the puritanical yoke, and honestly thought that he believed in monogamy. Sometime later he came to (probably slowly at first, and eventually more fully) understand that monogamy doesn't work for him, but now it can seem like an impossible task to tell you if he thinks you are too cemented in it. It can feel like it's entirely "too late". But once you understand yourself better, it's hard to deny yourself the process of exploring who you are.
Something else of note; say that you present to him as being entirely entrenched or cemented in monogamy, and he wants to come out to you about it, but doesn't want to until he's sure that this is important to his sexuality. It is easy to conclude that you can't know for sure without getting your feet wet, and so you feel like you have no choice but to do it secretly in the mean time--because if I'm going to go down that road and bring it up with my SO, I better be damn sure that I'm right about it.
I can say from experience that is exactly what happened to me, and it took more than 10 years of gently opening my SO's mind before it was possible to start the discussion of asking for an OM. If I had done it back when I first wanted to, she would have been entirely biased and shut off, with no chance of viewing this with an open mind. When I finally did start the discussion, she was ready to treat it seriously.
That being said; I'm extremely sexually adventurous, and sex to me is not at all about rubbing a body against another body and getting them off. I need the experience of learning new people, figuring out how they work, and sharing the gift of absolutely blowing their fucking mind.
And I've never had a fulfilling sexual relationship with my SO, but even if I did, I'm pretty confident that it wouldn't change my sexuality one bit, and I would still be in the same spot (and an interesting note, until I dropped the OM bomb, my SO was under the delusion that I was satisfied with our sex life--for years she was ignoring everything I was trying to bring to her attention, to the point where I was surprised that she was so shocked).
My advice, is if you truly want to understand what is going on and the answers seem to elude you, start reading books on non-monogamy. A good one to start with is "Opening Up" (Opening Up: A Guide to Creating... https://www.amazon.com/dp/157344295X?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share). If you want to understand our polyamory roots from an evolutionary biology perspective, "Sex at Dawn" is the gold standard (Sex at Dawn: How We Mate, Why We... https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061707813?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share). Dan Savage's books and podcasts are good, especially if you are religious (Dan is catholic).
Once you have gained perspective and insight on non-monogamy from reasonable authorities, then you can try and discuss it with your husband (and he might need to read the same material before you can really make progress). Either he will embrace it and you will be in a good place to move forward, or he won't be into it, in which case he might just get off on the thrill of it being illicit, and you will have no chance of moving forward without couples therapy.
You both should read Opening Up. The Ethical Slut and maybe a few other books on ENM. Try listening to some podcasts. I feel like you need to get through all that (plus a lot of communication) before you jump into cuckolding.
Good luck! 🍀
This are the book(s) I have read that have helped me
https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
https://www.amazon.com/When-Someone-Love-Polyamorous-Understanding/dp/0996460187
These cover all kinds of possibilities and forms of communication and will guide you into the types that fit for you and how they were successful for others.
My personal advice that my partner taught me and worked well for him is be honest about what you want, who is involved, if they ask then answer but if they don't then roll with it, get tested regularly and then some and make sure the people you are with get tested and let you see their results, always use protection even if you 100% trust the other people. Have fun, experiment. Always get consent and ask twice just to make sure you heard them the first time. You can only grow as a person. Also be open to intimacy and not just physical after a time because you never know what you will benefit from. Have boundaries for sure but clear one that you've put thought into and have found along the way. Also don't be greedy, if you're waiting on test results for Twitter party then wait and have some online foreplay in the mean time because it will only pay off. Also you get to protect yourself, your person and anyone else that comes along physically, mentally, and emotionally. There will be compromise and negotiations. All of this fun will also have equal parts work so put in the work. Also don'tont just be out for yourself, that might seem fun but it's not, it dulls your experience and can ruin theirs.
I love this update and I'm happy to see y'all trying to at least work out how best to go forward with positivity and love.
I practice ethical non-monogamy (which is the larger umbrella that poly, open, swinging, and other non-monogamous dynamics falls under) and have, successfully, for more than 20 years.
I suggest checking out Opening Up by Tristan Taormino. It's a fantastic resource when you're first exploring ENM dynamics. I also applaud your decision to seek therapy. You can check out the Directory of Kink and Poly Aware Professionals through the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom (NCSF) to find a therapist who is familiar with the particular needs of a couple who are exploring ethical non-monogamy.
If you want a practical guide on exploring polyamory with your partner, try https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279641267&sr=8-1#ace-2342880709
You Did Nothing Wrong. This is a Big Deal. And he is treating it like candy. Hey gee Mom, I want some candy. Can I get, it huh?
This might help.... likely MORE info that you need. But a good place to start
https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
I have also heard good things about The Ethical Slut.
I was in a marriage with swinging. And it can seem great. But unfortunately, sometimes people lose the point, "forget" the agreements ... and just want more and more and more. Be careful. This guy sounds like he is so jazzed at getting his penis wet by two women at once that he is thinking with the wrong head. And that is not ok.
Honestly, talk to him. That's the best way to figure this out. If you don't want the relationship to end then tell him that, but at the same time tell him how you truly feel about the situation. Maybe you guys can start an open relationship if both of you are in the same boat. It seems you both like each other, but let's be honest, sometimes we want to fuck other people and that's okay!
And tell your brother to stay away from your man if you feel like it!
I highly recommend these books: · Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships https://www.amazon.com/dp/157344295X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_KUJACb1TCC91K
· The Ethical Slut, Third Edition: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships, and Other Freedoms in Sex and Love https://www.amazon.com/dp/0399579664/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_iVJACbHYG8XA0
> I'm worried that if i bring any of this up and it becomes close to being a thing that oculd happen that my bf will go back to his old jealous feelings and get upset. He can be very insecure about his appearance and i'm worried tthat bringing this up will make him insecure, no matter what id say."
You can't control your boyfriend's feelings. You can communicate in ways that are gentle, loving, and clear, but he has to own his own feelings and actions. That goes for insecurities, too.
What do you want to bring up? Before you have the conversation, think about what you want to get out of it. Do you want to raise the possibility of an open relationship? Just tell him about your feelings and see what he says? It might be worth starting with just talking about your feelings first, and have the conversation in stages.
Open relationships come in lots of varieties--do you know whether you want to have your partner be dating someone else? Or "just sex"? Have you thought about what you would do if he fell in love with someone else? Any version of an open relationship that works (like all relationships, and then some!) requires really clear communication, good boundary-setting, and a willingness to trust your partner.
You might want to visit the Polyamory subreddit and/or look at this website https://www.morethantwo.com/ to get a sense of the ways to be poly or open. The Ethical Slut, recommended by someone else, is a classic, but you might also want to look at Tristan Taormino's Opening up (https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X) - that one spoke to me more than TES when I was in such a relationship.
My own experience is that open relationships are really tough, although they can be rewarding. I've chosen monogamy, but I learned a lot from my time in a poly relationship. One thing in particular is that it's important to investigate what you think opening the relationship will do in terms of "exploring [y]our identies.''
My girlfriend and I just opened up our 3 year relationship about a month ago and other posters are totally right - it's a journey and I've found this reddit community to be SO helpful (thanks everyone here!) - one thing that really helped me was reading people's sappy posts. Seeing success makes this feel easier.
For the record, I TOTALLY feel you, your second paragraph spoke to my little heart -- I am so certain about my partnership and we were so stable and ready for life before we opened up. It's been a scary process that made me feel uprooted and a heck of a lot less stable. But I truly honestly feel like nonmonogamy is SO good for helping each of us explore ourselves.
I think it's important to be flexible -- when we first discussed opening our relationship we sat down and made a moderate list of rules or boundaries based on what-ifs. But then reality happened and we realized how our rules didn't really speak to the people we really were (example: we had discussed this being open for the sake of rando hookups, but neither of us are all that casual people. Girlfriend especially prefers to have some sort of emotional connection to those she's sleeping with. So things got a whole lot less casual really fast) so we had to reconfigure our boundaries. I am certain that what we currently have set up will still continue to change.
If you've never done this before, it's important to give each other a little slack because sometimes you won't have the right words for what you're thinking and feeling. It's okay to say "this was a problem for blah-blah reason" but try not to get all doomsday about it. There will be a lot of trial and error as you sort through how to communicate and act.
Others are totally right, communicate communicate communicate. If you are feeling something, try not to overthink it and do share. That being said, know yourself -- personally I've blown things out of proportion because I haven't reflected on my feelings before talking about them - now I do a lot of writing and digging into what I'm really feeling before I bring it up and it has been much more constructive.
Don't be afraid to talk about the changes you're feeling or seeing. The relationship will change - how the two of you navigate those changes is what matters.
> I'm torn between accepting that I love this person enough to try to expand in this way and feeling like I'm settling and over-compromising
Oh I so hear that! It's really important that you try not to over*compromise. And I suppose it's worth knowing what it means to you to *over*compromise. Are you just saying yes to something so you don't have to think about it anymore? Or is there growth that comes with that decision that you value and so even though in this moment it's making you nervous, you feel like it might be worth it? Take some time to know what you need and don't be afraid to ask for that. No matter how in tune you are with someone, they're not going to know what you need if you can't state it. example: my partner and I work extremely different schedules and live in different cities (not far, but far enough that spending time together requires effort) - one of my needs is physical quality time together. At first I wanted to be cool and casual, offering that we just promise to see each other at least once a week -- but not knowing WHEN I was going to see her caused some very deep anxiety for me. So I requested that we don't set dates with other people on Sundays so that we were always available to see each other for sure on Sundays, even if it's for brunch before she goes to work, or for the evening when she gets off work (there's a second part of why this is important to me -- in past poly-relationships and even in the very beginning of our opening up, I give a wide berth when my partners are meeting new people. So wide that I'll give up our quality time, and eventually erode our relationship - this is a problem I am working through). **If you live together* then you may want to talk about making an effort to have a specific date night, whatever that might mean. If you're living together it can be easy to assume you spend a lot of time together so it doesn't matter, but that time is your regular every day down time. It's important to have some special time.
It's going to take time. It's going to take talking. There are going to be mistakes and you're probably going to learn a lot more about patience and forgiveness. You might feel unsettled for a little while -- give it time. I've seen people say this a lot and it is worth saying it again -- opening your relationship is putting it on Hard Mode. But it's doable and so worth it. My biggest piece of advice is to take the time to sort through your feelings. Take time for yourself. Take time to love yourself.
Here are some resources that have helped me so far:
* Probably everyone has directed you here: More than two
* And specifically: More than two: Handling Jealousy
* More than Two also has a few bits about being a monogamous person who loves a poly person (just as appropriate for a mono person loving a nonmono): Polyamory for Monogamists
* This one feels really basic but it also mentions some very realistic things and helped me to determine things I wanted to discuss with my partner: Clopen Relationships
* (not totally just about casual openness but about love as a whole; a really good read nonetheless): casual love
* AND. I haven't read it yet but I've seen it suggested SO OFTEN (but don't see it suggested in the other comments) - Opening Up by Tristan Taormino
(edited for formatting errors)
I didn't check that list of books posted, but Opening Up by Tristan Taormino is my open-relationship bible.
Hi there. With your permission, I'll give my two cents.
First things first, I'm sorry your relationships with M and W didn't work out. Even though I'm a guy, I can say from experience that losing great relationships is hard. Pick yourself up and keep looking. Time will heal your wounds.
I don't know if it will help, but in times like these I find a voice to listen to that I know will always be there. Sometimes it's my wife, other times, I listen to sex-positive or polyamory podcasts because the hosts are always there on demand, and may have covered a topic close to what I'm feeling, and may have some advice that I could come back to.
As far as your husband having a low sex drive, it certainly could be the meds, but I am of the opinion that they generally help more than they hurt. And that also seems to be the case here from what you've said. It is also possible that he could be asexual, so you might want to do some research on how that can affect both him and you.
If you're still interested in finding women to date, I have a couple of suggestions for you. You've said you're in a remote part of the Midwest. Have you looked online for any LGBT or open meetup or gathering groups? Meetup.com is good for this. My next suggestion is to find a LGBT support center nearby. You won't find dates there, but they might be able to point you in a direction to find the aforementioned meeting groups, and from there you can network to find more women. You're also young enough that you could probably find the LGBT group at your local university, and again, not look for dates, but for resources.
The last option is to move your family to a place more conducive to your desired lifestyle. It need not be far, just enough to get you in range of the nearest large city. If you really want a change of scenery, find a city that you or your husband's employer has a presence in, and ask for a transfer. I know it sounds like a big decision, and it is, but if the other options don't work, it may be what you need to find the people you want.
In closing, I'll ask you to pick up a copy of Tristan Taormino's Opening Up. It's simply the best manual to creating and sustaining open relationships that I know, and I personally think it should be on every non-monogamous person's bookshelf.
I hope my rambling helps you in some way.
> What can a girl do to keep it interesting?
Reading this book together may help. It covers pretty much every form of non-monogamy and will certainly give you a lot to think about and discuss. http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
Opening Up is a very thorough resource.
http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
Two really good books about this: Opening Up by Tristan Taormino and The Ethical Slut. Both give a really good framework of how to communicate and what to look out for when exploring these kinds of situations. Even if they aren't perfectly aimed at your goals, the information on how to communicate and how to set rules and guidelines are excellent for anyone playing in non-monogamous realms.
Communication is probably the most important part of sex. You and your FWB should probably have a conversation to figure out what your each looking for in a threesome and what you each would be interested in participating and what you wouldn't want to participate in.
Tristan Taormino's Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships is a good resource in looking at possible options. Her blog mentions the Beyond Two dating site for folks looking for more than one partner, as a spot to help you find your Unicorn.
Once you've found your 3rd, a conversation with the three of you is a good way to find out where the attraction is, what's each of you would like to try out with the other(s), need, want, etc. In some communities, this is called "negotiation" and is a great way to make sure everyone gets what they need from the relationship and has a good time.
There are many foreplay possibilities such as massage, mutual oral stimulation, etc. -- you might wish some time on those before going to the various penetration options.
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You definitely have a good start there - The Ethical Slut and Sex at Dawn are two of my favourites! You should also check out Opening Up and Wild Side Sex.
Read "Opening Up". Great info in there. Started out open, now in a closed poly relationship. That was the most helpful book of the books I read when we started.
I know you're already cross posting this but did the people over at r/sex tell you about r/polyamory? They deal with open relationships and will be able to help with these questions.
For some basic, starter advice - read this. It'll help.
Take a look at the books Opening Up and The Ethical Slut. They are a fairly good starting point for learning about non-monogamy. You might also want to start looking at /r/polyamoury. Good luck.
If you're open to reading together I'd suggest trying Opening Up by Tristan Taormino. It may give you structure for discussion.
Yes, it's very normal and the best way to deal with these feeling is to communicate them openly and honestly with your bf.
I'd highly recommend a book called "Opening Up" which talks about various forms of non-monagamous relationships
Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships by Tristan Taormino.
One of the most provocative take aways I had from this books was that no one person can fulfill all of your needs. Likewise, you're not going to fulfill all of another's needs. That doesn't mean you end the relationship but rather structure the relationship that allows everyone needs to be met.
Before making any decisions... I HIGHLY recommend reading Opening Up by Tristan Taormino. It is a fantastic introduction how to guide to open relationships. Even if by the end you decide "ok this isn't for me" I can't imagine not finding something useful to take away for any other relationship you go on to have.
Edit: Also, if you are seriously considering this change, visit /r/polyamory. /r/relationships is pretty biased against non-monogamy.
I've been happily married for to a wonderful woman for fourteen years, and we have never cheated on one another. We have, however been happily non-monogamous for the last six years or so. Not only has it allowed us to fulfill our desires for variety, experience and excitement, it has fueled our love (and lust!) for one another and brought us to a place of honesty, communication and understanding that I don't think most couples reach.
I'm am not suggesting that the various styles of non-monogamy are for everyone and I certainly don't thing would fix all of your problems, especially not at this point. I do wish though that different kinds of non-monogamous partnerships were options that most couples even knew were possible. I certainly think having that door open at least a crack, alleviates a lot of problems.
Plenty of resources on the web, but this isn't a bad place to start: http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
I'm sorry for your situation - breaking up always sucks, but breaking up the relationship which you were told your whole life was meant to last forever, especially when kids are involved is the worst.
However, before you pick between two bad options (divorce or "open-relationship to fix your relationship") you should take the time to understand exactly what options ARE available to you. Time to do some reading and thinking outside the box.
First, PLEASE watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-laWOpXxC8 yes, it is an hour long - but your marriage and future happiness is on the line now. Please watch the video, and then...
Second: Read Opening Up: http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X
After that, also consider reading Sex at Dawn, then Sex at Dusk if you really want to take the time to consider the human condition in order to make a fully informed decision, and again, I really think you should take the time, since this is kinda a big thing, right? And finally, consider taking this question over to /r/polyamory
The first thing they will tell you is that opening up a relationship won't fix it. It never does.
However I challenge you and your wife to find a way to redesign your relationship in to a format which works for all 3 members of your family. Find a way to live together (or nearby to one another), and maintain as much love, respect and appreciation for each other as you can without all of the usual assumptions that go with a relationship (exclusivity etc)
The world is more complicated than most people want to see it, and we can work with that.
Best of luck....
I actually disagree with the person telling you absolutely not, though I'm also hesitant to tell you to just go for it. I entered my first open relationship under slightly similar circumstances and five years later am now mostly in open relationships and hesitant to ever go for monogamy again (though I've since ended it with the original partner and been in multiple open relationships since). The difference between my situation and what I'm reading here though is that we took it slowly, spent time researching and discussing things before we opened it and basically created the relationship that made sense for both of us. We both wanted it and both agreed to it while still communicating our hesitations to each other. We're now living on opposite coasts and both either dating (him) or casually seeing other people (me), but we did it in such a way that we're still good friends and occasionally hook up when we're in the same vicinity. My advice is that in order to do this you need to love the partner and put her needs as equally important to yours. Open relationships only work well if both partners are on board and equally comfortable with the situation. I'd also consider why you want an open relationship. For instance, is it just to have sex with other people? Are both of you comfortable with multiple full-fleged relationships or just one relationship and varying degrees of sexual partners? Is it because you want to be with other people or also because you want your partner to be able to be with other people and enjoy herself. Will it bug you, for example, if she agrees wholeheartedly and gains a second committed male partner who she is able to regularly see while you're regulated to not spending nights with her due to distance? What about the type of people you'll be dating, are you able to be fair to them and disclose your relationship status from the beginning and only date people who are respectful of the situation and of her? My experience is that often some men I've met love the idea of an open relationship but don't realize that due to the nature of dating they may still go through dry periods while their female partner has many other partners, are you able to handle something like that? For me I care about my partners and would never want to deny them anything that gives them pleasure. I'm also not a particularly jealous person and wouldn't really worry about them leaving me for someone else because I kind of feel like if that is going to happen than I'd rather that just did happen as it is healthier for both of us (so if they meet a person they absolutely want to be with then I want them to be able to go for it). I also don't like being controlled or told what to do and wouldn't want to do that to someone else, so I expect my partners to trust that I'll keep their feelings in mind and be respectful of them through my actions, and vice versa. That said I do have agreements with partners around safe sex, who is and isn't an acceptable partner, how well they treat other partners (because I wouldn't tolerate them treating another person poorly), etc.
What you need to accept if you decide to do this is that one type of relationship isn't better than the other and if she decides she doesn't want an open relationship she is perfectly justified in that choice and she may end it (do not ever push anyone into a relationship they are not sure they want). I'm concerned that you already have contemplated cheating and think you may do it. That isn't okay, especially because the relationship needs to be based on honesty for it to work as an open relationship. If I were you I'd start talking about your fears and worries now regardless of whether you decide to open the relationship or not, because effective communication needs to happen between the two of you for any type of relationship to work.
My main advice is to put in some time and research and figure out if an open relationship really makes sense for both of you and will be what you envision it as, give her time to consider and do the same. Rushing into opening a relationship is kind of like rushing into a new relationship in some ways, and if you fail to take many of the nuances into consideration or move too quickly chances are someone may end up needlessly hurt. If you don't feel capable of trying to meet her needs as well or figuring out what will work for both of you, then maybe it is time to end it. But the best way to know for sure is to talk to her about it.
EDIT: It might be worth crossposting to /r/polyamory or /r/nonmonogamy. Also these few books are the usual suspects most people recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X or http://www.amazon.com/The-Ethical-Slut-Relationships-Adventures/dp/1587613379 Again, I'm not saying you should do it, because it isn't for everyone or the ideal relationship for many people, but I am saying it might be worth both you and your partner critically thinking about the reasons why you might want to and the reasons why you might not.
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A few things.
Also - you really should read more about the poly thing, if you haven't. I know it's a difficult issue for you, but if you want to try to do this, read.
My 'form response' below:
I really suggest you all read the BASIC FAQ and INTRO stuff at www.morethantwo.com
And if you're into books, some options include: