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Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness?
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15 reviews of this product found across Reddit:
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. Cephalopods have the most developed nervous systems and brains of any invertebrate. They really do deserve special legal protection, especially w.r.t. experiments in scientific studies.
A particularly interesting book on the topic, if you care to read it is Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness. Despite the title, the book covers cephalopods in general.
Currently reading Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness
People often have an extremely myopic view of intelligence (in an overly like comparison sort of way). If we can't anthropomorphize it, we can't empathize with it.
The further you climb around the evolutionary tree, the more alien (to us) the concept of sentience becomes... that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that we have little respect, or imagination, for the different ways it might manifest.
You might enjoy the book.
Absolutely. Great book called <em>Other Minds</em> discusses the differences between human and cephalopod intelligence (octopi and cuttlefish being some of the most intelligent animals on the planet) and the differences are staggering. Machine intelligence has absolutely no reason whatsoever to look similar to human intelligence, other than our assumption that it should. Since we will probably not hand-build the first AI model to surpass human general intelligence, but rather use some kind of random or data-driven process, our expectations may not matter all that much.
That was one of the many things in the book “Other Minds” that blew me away. They basically have 8 sub-brains in their arms, which appear to work in unison with their brain-brain. It’s an amazing book about cephalopod intelligence, and we’ll worth a read.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Other-Minds-Octopus-Origins-Consciousness/dp/0374227764
Are you studying anything specific or just fun?
I'm listening to Other Minds at the moment. It's a book that uses the brain of the octopus to talk about how consciousness evolves.
You should read Other Minds The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness Cephalopods are way more clever and fascinating and just plain weird than you may think. This book was great.
Other Minds, it’s about the consciousness of octopuses and consciousness in general. It’s a very well written and fascinating book.
https://www.amazon.com/Other-Minds-Octopus-Origins-Consciousness/dp/0374227764
This isn't SF but since you mentioned octopuses and discovering new forms of intelligence: https://www.amazon.com/Other-Minds-Octopus-Origins-Consciousness/dp/0374227764
Read Peter Godfrey-Smith’s “Other Minds” they basically are.
Such a fascinating animal! Recently finished this amazing book!
https://www.amazon.com/Other-Minds-Octopus-Origins-Consciousness/dp/0374227764/ref=nodl_
Octopus have a majority of their neurons in their tentacles and taste with them, too. “Other Minds” is a mind blowing read.
https://www.amazon.com/Other-Minds-Octopus-Origins-Consciousness/dp/0374227764/ref=nodl_
You would love the book - I hope you get a chance to read it!
The guy that wrote that one is one of the leading scientists in the field. Lots of folks might recognize him from here ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg but he also spent a lot of time working with other species, which is a lot of the book's point. Groups stubbornly insist there's something "different" where, really, we have to keep changing the goalpost of what makes humans or other "conscious" creatures different. At one point it was thumbs, but raccoons have those. But then tools, but apes, raccoons again, birds .... societies! But there is a city of octopus and crustacean by NSW ....
With that in mind, the book really calls to question why some scientists refuse to budge when faced with the fact the list is getting longer and longer as many more animals have noted complex enough emotional capacity to be self aware. There's this weird paranoia that he talks about regarding the fact we, as people, 'humanize' and how he chose his approach to remove the emotion from it and understand the survival element to social structure, even if it isn't communicated in a way we, with our limited human worldview, can understand. Turns out we aren't the only species that figured out we can do better together!
This is another one, specifically exploring how scientists generally agree that octopus are intelligent and, in your words, "self conscious". It also looks at cuttle fish, close cousin (They also explore a lot of Octopolis that I mentioned earlier) ...
https://www.amazon.com/Other-Minds-Octopus-Origins-Consciousness/dp/0374227764
It's agreed upon in the scientific community they are a being of higher emotional and social intelligence. It seems agreed upon that consciousness is shaped within the neurological makeup, and all of our experiences are down to our chemical and neurological reactions ... Octopus have no brain, their nerves run through their body, so a brain isn't necessary to be smart.
Since all life is related on the family tree, etc etc, there are a few contenders for common ancestor for us and octopus (at least as of when the book was written) - a type of sponge or a small, shelled fellow. They had to have some sort of neurological system to survive, so were the "fundamentals" of consciousness present in that creature, or did it evolve separately? How can we test, when every time we try to, we keep learning we have to change the rules? How many more animals; avain, mammal, cephalopods (literally in the land sea and air), need to be added to the list before we concede that maybe there aren't a ton of things are exclusively-human besides taxes and racism?
edit: I'm not saying that some bugs and creatures aren't dumb as rocks, but I don't think that means it's devoid of emotional capacity, even if it's just being cool with being eaten.
>mõistusega jänest ei saa (ka hüpoteetiliselt) olla
Väga kummaline vaade, mis, nagu kõhutunne ka eelneva kommentaari kohta ütles, viitab varauusaegsele mõistusekäsitlusele, mille kohaselt inimesel on mõistus ja ülejäänud loomad on pool-automaadid. Kui jänesel ei oleks mõistust, ei oleks enam jäneseid. Praegusel ajal omistatakse mõistus põhimõtteliselt igale elusorganismile, kellel on kesknärvisüsteem. Näiteks närvisüsteemide digitaalsel kaardistamisel tehakse praegu tööd lameusside ja äädikakärbeste peal. Jäneste ajutegevust, sealjuures, on väga hea magnetresonantsskänneriga uurida, sest nad püsivad pikalt liikumatult paigal.
Kui mõistust priviligeerida arbitraarselt inimesele, siis võib sellega ju veel kaugemale minna. Näiteks võib võtta kinni, nagu ma olen näinud mõnes seksistlikus subredditis tehtavat, sellest, et naise aju on sõltumatult kehasuurusest meeste omast väiksem. Sealjuures on väiksem ka amygdala, mis tegeleb. just nagu sinu maantee näites, riskide hindamise ja otsuste tegemisega - sealt ka naiste kurikuulus otsustusvõimetus. Kas seetõttu võib öelda, et naine on mehe kõrval pool-teadlik olend, pm loll loom?
Jänesel on ajurakke 500 miljonit, umbes sama palju kui kaheksajalal, kelle mõistuse kohta on viimasel ajal päris palju kirjutatud (nt <em>Other Minds</em>). Soovitan sul oma mõistusekäsitlus üle kaaluda.
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