What is Reddit's opinion of Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife?

From 3.5 billion Reddit comments

Regardless of how you feel about religion, I hope you find this as (comforting? not strong enough - hopeful? Dogs need better words to truly explain how awesome they are) as I did.

I once read a book called "Proof of Heaven", written by a neurosurgeon after his experiences while in a 7-day coma. Fascinating read, regardless of you how feel about the subject - but nothing, NOTHING impacted me as much in that book as the following line:

"I was flying, passing over trees and fields, streams and waterfalls, and here and there, people. There were children, too, laughing and playing. The people sang and danced around in circles, and sometimes I'd see a dog, running and jumping among them, as full of joy as the people were..." (emphasis mine)

I cannot explain my joy in finding that this man, in his personal experience, saw dogs in heaven. Personally, I can't imagine a paradise without my dogs. They're far more deserving of a heaven, a place of endless love, than any human I've met (and I've met some good ones). I know I'll be frustrated for the rest of my life, because I'll never be able to explain to anyone else how much my dogs mean to me and what they've done for me.

I know I'm gonna be a mess when they leave me. But I also know, more than I know anything, that they'll be waiting for me, wherever we go after this.

Google: NDERF, Dr. Raymond moody, Dr. Jeffrey Long, also theres a really good book by Dr. Eben Alexander who was an atheist neurosurgeon that disregarded his patients’ NDEs until he experienced his own during a 7 day coma. It’s such a good read. But the NDERF website has a bunch of info and personal stories you can read over. Seriously, every single person who has this experience comes out loving life more than they ever have.

I’m a neuroscientist; consciousness after death was my research topic of choice throughout my masters program. Quantum physics does a good job researching/explaining consciousness. As for evidence of the afterlife, case studies & NDE’s are our best bet. Raymond Moody’s website has thousands of NDE stories, a lot of them are pretty unbelievable and hard to write off as ‘hallucinations’. There’s also an interesting book, written by a neurosurgeon who was a nonbeliever of anything non-scientific, and would almost lose respect for his patients that would claim to have had a NDE, until he himself experienced it during his 7 day coma. His book describes what he saw and how he went from a non-believer to making it his life’s mission to explore these theories, also how the scientific community disapproved of his new beliefs. Don’t forget, in 1907 Dr. Duncan MacDougall published a scientific study on the weight of the soul, so this area has been of interest to many scientists, the downfall is obviously a lot of conjecture in the science, but mostly the scientific community has a very hard time researching and examining something they cant see/dont believe in. I, personally am not religious, but when discussions of the ‘afterlife’ come up, it has a religious tie to it, so science wont touch it.

Well... I do in a way. Read some near death experiences before and everyone's story is different. Then there are those that didn't experience anything, they just cease to exist in a way. My take is the afterlife is what we believe will be (probably on a subconscious level).

Edit: Proof of Heaven is a heartwarming read. While the experiences are interesting, it also has a lot of life lessons in there.

Proof of Heaven: Neurosurgeon gets bacterial meningitis, is stuck in a coma for months, then comes out of it. No one thinks he was going to live due to the condition of his spinal fluid (He claims it was a yellow pus color) Great book.

Since you requested a “scientific” reading:

Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife https://smile.amazon.com/dp/1451695195/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_a_VPANA44TKD8XVBV5BCN3

The book is written by an ex-atheist Harvard Neurosurgeon. It is very heavy on the neurochemical process of the brain and what he experienced (seeing Heaven and Jesus) was not a hallucination.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0062876473/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1639610215&sr=8-3

Written by a Yale/ University of Columbia educated physician

I’d also suggest looking up Raymond Moody, MDs research

If you are really interested look into NDE's that is what I have been studying. Really amazing and not the "its just the hallucinations of a dying mind" thing doesn't float, doesn't line up with evidence.

Here are a couple starting points

https://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html

and

https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

Pretty good read

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1451695195/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_XHHESQHYZ1GNN45RMG3V

Lol nope it’s For my podcast!

Notable guests include:

-Former Brigadier General Robert Spalding, author of “Stealth War” https://youtu.be/0kdpLb6cWs0

-Mike Durant, “The Black Hawk Down guy,” author of “In The Company of Heroes” https://youtu.be/UwRq_Ie8UX4

-Dr. Eben Alexander, author of “Proof of Heaven” https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

-Norman Ohler, author of “Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich” https://www.amazon.com/Blitzed-Drugs-Third-Norman-Ohler/dp/1328663795

Upcoming guests:

-Rob Manning, chief engineer of NASA’s Mars Curiosity Rover; author of “Mars Rover Curiosity” https://www.audible.com/pd/Mars-Rover-Curiosity-Audiobook/B00OI1ZW32

Notable guests include:

-Former Brigadier General Robert Spalding https://youtu.be/0kdpLb6cWs0

-Mike Durant, “The Black Hawk Down guy” https://youtu.be/UwRq_Ie8UX4

-Dr. Eben Alexander, author of “Proof of Heaven” https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

TPC > JRE https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKuG1A3Mqp_RZ2ZdrVbV4FA

From the guy below:

Notable guests include:

-Former Brigadier General Robert Spalding https://youtu.be/0kdpLb6cWs0

-Mike Durant, “The Black Hawk Down guy” https://youtu.be/UwRq_Ie8UX4

-Dr. Eben Alexander, author of “Proof of Heaven” https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

Edit:

Notable guests include:

-Medical Serial Killer investigator Special Agent Bruce Sackman https://youtu.be/GkRUEYernBk

-Former Brigadier General Robert Spalding https://youtu.be/0kdpLb6cWs0

-Mike Durant, “The Black Hawk Down guy” https://youtu.be/UwRq_Ie8UX4

-John Romaniello, NYT best selling author and former health advisor to Arnold Schwarzenegger https://youtu.be/5E_zDxMXgVE

Upcoming guests include:

-Dr. Eben Alexander, author of “Proof of Heaven” https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

-Norman Ohler, author of “Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich” https://www.amazon.com/Blitzed-Drugs-Third-Norman-Ohler/dp/1328663795

I got the feeling that by adding specific topics in the titles, I was actually excluding potential viewers.

Ex: in a 2 hr podcast, maybe we talk about UFOs for 60 mins, the ocean floor for 30 mins, helicopters for 20 mins, and politics for 10 mins. Bu choosing any one of those topics as the header, im excluding every other potential viewer

So now, if there is a specific guest (like this laser guy, or an author), I make it clear that it’s a specific episode.

Otherwise, it’s just a total free for all with no direction or purpose

Edit:

Notable guests include:

-Medical Serial Killer investigator Special Agent Bruce Sackman https://youtu.be/GkRUEYernBk

-Former Brigadier General Robert Spalding https://youtu.be/0kdpLb6cWs0

-Mike Durant, “The Black Hawk Down guy” https://youtu.be/UwRq_Ie8UX4

-John Romaniello, NYT best selling author and former health advisor to Arnold Schwarzenegger https://youtu.be/5E_zDxMXgVE

Upcoming guests include:

-Dr. Eben Alexander, author of “Proof of Heaven” https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

-Norman Ohler, author of “Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich” https://www.amazon.com/Blitzed-Drugs-Third-Norman-Ohler/dp/1328663795

So, considering I was the student and we had a choice of what we could research, there wasn’t as much judgement as I expected to receive when I initially asked to research this topic. There are only 12 people total in the masters program, I was very much the black sheep of the program from the start- and this made me stand out much more for obvious reasons. I’d get some eye rolls from other students at times when I began to present, but I think more so people were fascinated at the fact that there is a lot of research out there on the topic. And, one professor admittedly didn’t expect my presentations to turn out as well as they did, because he had zero knowledge of this research area. However, it is difficult speaking about ‘afterlife’ in scientific terms, and though there is a lot of scientific studies out there, a lot of ‘scientists’ view NDEs as conjecture/not good enough proof.

I also believe may scientists haven’t acknowledged the fact that this is an area of research that’s been ongoing; since 1907 physicians have been studying the soul. Quantum physics does a good job explaining consciousness as a separate ‘entity’ (in five year old terms).

Research organizations dedicated to this area include: - NDE Research Foundation (NDERF) - OBERF - The Blue Brain Project uses algebraic topology to reconstruct hidden, constantly changing structures and spaces of the brain’s network -including consciousness. - Horizon Research Foundation

Lastly, Incase your interested in a quick interesting read, Dr. Eben Alexander was the typical atheist neurosurgeon, until he had an NDE during a week long coma, and wrote a book about his experience called Proof of Heaven. He tells his story, and the backlash he experienced after he woke up and wanted to pursue research in this area.

I highly encourage you to study the NDE phenomena, listen to those who have actually crossed to the other side and came back, its pretty amazing.

I have been studying it for 15 years now and its incredibly consistent across age groups, gender, religious background, ethnic and cultural background, etc.

If you study it enough it becomes quite clear that consciousness gives rise to the physical world, not the other way around.

Here is some resources.

https://nderf.org/NDERF/Languages/Exceptional%20Accounts.htm

and

https://www.near-death.com/science/experts/pmh-atwater.html

and

https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=neuroscience+nde&qid=1579279393&sr=8-1

that amazon link is a book by a respected Nuerosurgeon who had an NDE that totally transformed his entire world view. Excellent book, 4.5 stars with 12,000 reviews.

"Sadly too much evidence against it."

hmmm that's interesting. As a computer scientist and mathematician who has a fascination with quantum computing and it's implications with regard to the loosely defined phenomenon we call consciousness, it seems there are many recent theories that point a metaphysical connection to what we describe as being self aware. To name few: Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research, quantum consciousness studies by Dr. Stuart Haneroff, and of course the many anecdotal studies like Dr. Eben Alexander.

I'm interested to hear your specifics of "too much evidence against it."

God Bless

Yeah the fact that there are thousands of religions is one of the big things that convinced me against religion. But still, I try not to disregard people's beliefs as stupid, although for me the logical conclusion does seem to be no God.

But still, something that got me thinking is the near death experiences that a lot of people have. I know it's probably just all in people's heads but there are some pretty miraculous stories out there.

For example Dr. Alexander was a highly trained neuro surgeon who went into a week long coma and had what he claimed to be contact with a supernatural power. When he awoke from his coma he looked back at his brain readings and there was no activity and no way it could've happened in his brain. But maybe he made it up to sell books who knows

http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

or stories I've read on reddit from a hospice nurse a year ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/28sof0/are_you_mentally_prepared_to_accept_that_one_day/cie5gm9

I guess there probably isn't a God but I'm reading the bible right now and soon the Qur'an, because if there is a God and I wanted to find him where else would I start? But as you said there's no compelling evidence toward there being a God so it's probably not worth the effort. When we die we'll either find out the truth or won't exist so won't be able to care

>He saw an apparent link and investigated. It was his investigation that was sloppy, not his initial observation.

Now you're moving goalposts. You asked for scientists who believe in wacky stuff and I gave you some. The mental missteps that led up to those beliefs are immaterial.

> He was not a scientist.

You gotta be kidding me. To this day, Newton is widely considered one of the greatest scientists who ever lived, if not THE greatest. Sure, if you want to be pedantic, they called it "Natural Philosophy" in those days. But where do you think the Scientific Method came from? Newton was one of the Fathers of Science. He helped invent and refine the method we use today. He was not just a practitioner, he was one of its creators.

As for whether scientists have believed wacky stuff, it's not even up for debate. Watch some pseudoscience-y movies like What the Bleep Do We Know? Spend a few minutes on Amazon, where there are a number of books with scientists going off the deep end. Do two seconds of research into some of the scientists who have believed in the paranormal and occult. There is no shortage of wackos with PhDs in the sciences.

>You're saying scientists believe this.

I'm saying there are many who do. I've personally had conversations with them. And I've read books by believers like Francis Collins, who says things like:

>You can argue yourself, on the basis of pure intellect, right up to the precipice of belief, but then you have to decide. I don't believe intellectual argument alone will push someone across that gap, because we are not talking about something which can be measured in the same way that science measures the natural world, and then you decide what is natural truth. This is supernatural truth. And in that regard, the spirit enters into this, not just the mind.

He's talking about taking a leap of FAITH. It is not evidence that convinces him. It is belief in spite of not having evidence. And by the way, he's the perfect example of a brilliant scientist who believes in wacky stuff and makes unsound arguments. He finds C.S. Lewis convincing, and those are not sound arguments by any stretch of the imagination.

>The conclusion is wrong but we know that because we've done the science proving there's no link

That isn't the point. The point is, given what we know, they're unsound arguments. Yet that doesn't stop millions upon millions of people from continuing to use those arguments today. Also, as a side note, I would suggest it's possible to know that many of these are terrible arguments without even doing scientific experiments. For example, many of us knew the prayer claims were bogus prior to the actual scientific studies being done. How? By examining the faulty reasoning behind the claims.

>Perhaps the scientists have their own reasons for their own hypothesis that hasn't been disproven

And perhaps I have a pink unicorn living in my garage. Look, one thing I notice about people who peddle bullshit: they love to play the MAYBE card. Sorry, but MAYBE is not a convincing argument. I can propose an infinite number of highly implausible MAYBEs. As I've said before, I've encountered hundreds, if not thousands, of arguments for God. All of them show the signs of desperate rationalization. Which serves as evidence that humans are believing for emotional reasons, not rational ones. The many scientists with whom I've engaged on this topic, either in personal interactions or in print, do not have sound reasons for believing. Which is not to say that there is for certain no scientist on the planet who has a compelling argument. But there is no reason to think that there is, and there are many reasons to think that there most likely isn't. And I've already given you several of those reasons.

>reasons for their own hypothesis

By the way, I reject your use of the word hypothesis here. We were not discussing scientists' "hypotheses" about God. If someone wants to hypothesize about God, that's great. I have no problem with that. My beef is with BELIEF based on unsound arguments and insufficient evidence. My beef is with TRUTH CLAIMS that can not be supported. That's what we've been talking about.

>So you're not looking very hard are you? Not surprising you haven't found a good argument.

Dude, just stop. Your mischaracterizations are becoming tiresome. As I said before, I've been studying these topics for decades. I've heard hundreds upon hundreds of arguments for God's existence. I very much have been "looking" with great interest. Not because I take these arguments seriously, but because I'm fascinated by humanity's endless capacity for self-deception, particularly as it relates to religion. I collect bad arguments for God's existence for the same reason someone collects Pokemon cards: Because I find them entertaining, want a complete set, and because it's exciting to stumble upon one you've never seen before.

>Because I have an organ inside my head that is really good at processing incomplete data.

This is not what I meant. I meant: what is the specific data you are using to draw that conclusion?

>If something is true with room for doubt then I shall look into it more deeply.

Impossible. As I've said before, there is room for doubt in everything. There is room for doubt that we even exist in the first place. This might all be a dream or hallucination. When someone says a UFO landed in their bedroom and anally probed them with a broomstick, they MIGHT be telling the truth. Should we invest resources into investigating their claim because it MIGHT be true? Or should we realize that the chances are miniscule given what we know about these types of claims. i.e. That humans have a propensity for making shit up and being completely deluded about paranormal claims. Same goes for religious claims.

>If you state that there are such entities then I will consider it reasonable for you to believe until I can come up with a good argument stating otherwise.

I don't believe you. I don't believe that in your everyday life, you are so open-minded. I don't believe that when you watch a televangelist selling "Miracle Spring Water" at 3am, you say to yourself, "Hey, maybe there's some validity to this." No, I give you more credit than that. I think you probably say to yourself, "This guy is a huckster. And I'm willing to say I "know" this because I have never seen evidence of magical claims being legitimate, but I have seen endless evidence of humans being deceptive con artists taking advantage of the gullibility of others." I think you're more sensible than you claim to be.

And on that note, I'm out. Fun conversation, but I've reached my limits for time and patience.

Someone already did that

Books like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

Which should be a disgrace to anyone scientifically minded, especially the fact that his trade is being heralded as supposedly giving him some insight into the subject.

Then there's data like this

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/22/1365669/-A-look-at-doctors-political-leanings-by-specialty

There are five areas that point to existence beyond the material world.

1. The Cosmological Argument for God's Existence: Going all the way back to Aristotle and Aquinas (and most recently popularized by Dr. William Lane Craig, whose videos you should check out on youtube), this argument considers the fact that everything the has a beginning has a cause (ie: it cannot bring itself into existence). The universe itself has a beginning, therefore the universe must have a cause outside of itself. In other words, the initial thrust which ignited the big bang, creating all matter, all energy, all time and space, must---by definition---not be composed of anything within that system. The First Cause must be immaterial. It is a logical necessity.

2. Numbers. If you want to get platonic, numbers do not have any concrete material existence; yet clearly they exist and correspond to the real world in meaningful, translatable ways.

3. "I think therefore I am." The self--something which in bygone days people called the soul--is something non-material that we all have daily experience with. True there are material, chemical aspects to human thought which can influence how we think or feel (the soul is both material and spiritual, hence the battle we all face) but no matter how many brains we dissect, we are unable to find a specific location that gives us the sens of self. Some have tried to explain the self away as an illusion; but it is a primal sense experience which we all have when interacting with the world. It would be utterly foolish to ignore the self's existence. Your very question begins with the premise that you, as a self, exist. This is fundamental to interaction with the world.

4. Near Death Experiences. There have been some good recent studies done on this. Check out this book by a prominent neurosurgeon called Proof of Heaven: http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

5. Multiple Dimensions. Physicists tell us that beyond the three physical dimensions that we experience every day and the fourth dimension of time, there exist up to sixteen other dimensions outside our normal realm of perception. It's as though we are all living in a flat comic strip and the there is a bigger imperceptible world going on all around us.

Open your mind and your heart. God is willing to be found by you if you seek him.

Good luck and God bless.

there was a book written by a neurosurgeon that talks about their near death experience. might be a worthwhile read...

edit: http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195