> and I'd be shocked if there's a US Attorney out there who's willingly going to go "yeah, you know what? I'm going to push for a weed conviction rather than going after heroin / coke / opiods / meth."
You're confusing the symptoms with the problem. The driving force behind the drug war isn't attorneys or even really politicians specifically, it's law enforcement agencies going after that sweet, sweet grant money. And MJ busts are quick, easy ways to make a buck. It has virtually zero impact on the actual crime rate but it looks good on paper. Radly Balko's book "The Rise of the Warrior Cop" is a really good breakdown on this subject.
Attorney's, politicians, and even the president himself can talk all the talk they want, the reality is until someone cuts the purse strings, this problem doesn't go away. And I have yet to hear even hint at limiting these grant programs.
Pumping millions of dollars into police departments across the nation and encouraging them to use military tactics on drug busts against blacks and hippies is tame compared to a guy with a Twitter fetish?
Nixon was the quintessential "tough on crime" Republican. He loved putting guns and money into cops' hands so they could fight a non-existent crime wave that wasn't sweeping the nation all so he could pander to his bases for reelection.
Nixon was truly paranoid and did so much to wreck our country all to please some demons in his head.
Trump is like that weird uncle at family gatherings that spouts off nonsense, and who gets drunk and posts on social media all the time. You know the guy is unhinged, but that is the key - everyone knows he is weird and unpredictable. You know you take everything he says with a grain of salt. Nixon at least sounded rational and sane. Plus, Trump is not responsible for ending nearly as many human lives as Nixon. The Vietnam was was a damn shame, killing so many people all for nothing. All Nixon had to do was pull out when he took office, but he didn't.
I highly recommend this book to learn about how law enforcement in the US has changed over the years. The author devotes quite a bit of space discussing how both Nixon and Reagan set the stage for how things are today: SWAT teams knocking down doors going after marijuana; record numbers of people in prison; billions of dollars in tax money spent on police at local, state, and federal levels; creating generations of felons who struggle being productive members of society due to "tough on crime" drug convictions over what should be minor or nonexistent offenses. Who started all of this? Nixon. As bad as he is, Trump has barely scratched the surface compared to Nixon.
Hey, I just want to mention in this thread the book:
Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces
It covers the history of how the police have changed over time and become what they are today. It's an interesting read of society, government, and how power is exerted and justified. Check your local library today to see if they have a copy. Or you could "borrow without asking" a digital copy from the internet. Or buy it if your into that sort of thing.
The militarization of the police force in the United States has been an ongoing issue for years, not really sure how you can pin that on Trump. If you are curious, Radley Balko released a book about this in 2014 (Amazon).
Radley fucking Balko. Buy his book, damnit.
Edited to include link.
The worse the riots get, the bigger their defense budget will be next year. Couldn't get the city to pay for upgrades last year? Not gonna be a problem next year. Rise of the Warrior Cop is kind of a dry read, but it breaks down things like police budgets before and after major events like the Rodney king riots.
Unfortunately, in many ways the police have actually gotten a lot better.* Bodycams and cell phone video are just more prevalent, so now we actually see a lot more of the shit they do. Before video, they were
*In many ways they have gotten worse too, see Rise of the Warrior Cop by Radley Balko for more on this
There's always been some percentage of "bad cops" and abuse of power but generally those cops (and people in general) who are so inclined abuse those whom they can get away with abusing. This basically means: poor people and, not that race is never a factor but poor people in the US are disproportionately black and they bear the brunt of a lot of poor people abuse. Almost all cop abuse I've personally witnessed has involved poor people, street people or people who otherwise didn't look like they had the resources to cause any subsequent blowback - not really even any reasonably-well-off people of any race, color or creed
I think that kind of thing can generally be fixed by more, better trained, better compensated and more strictly disciplined cops.
The other phenomenon is the post-9/11 rise of the warrior cop (more along the lines of what I think you're talking about) which is mostly unnecessary, extremely dangerous and has probably exacerbated the first phenomenon.
Many defund-the-police types don't understand what they're incentivizing (or they think they're contributing to chaos or both) but I'm sure there are also others who would very much like to get rid of or severely diminish all local/municipal police forces and replace them with federal cops which would absolutely make everything worse. The US Capitol Police have already expanded beyond Washington DC following the 1/6 "insurrection".
This is the opening them of Radley Balko's Book
Basically, before we had police as we know them today for generations society handled crime by mostly shaming and local customs
This is the opening them of Radley Balko's Book
Basically, before we had police as we know them today for generations society handled crime by mostly shaming and local customs
This is the opening them of Radley Balko's Book
Basically, before we had police as we know them today for generations society handled crime by mostly shaming and local customs
This is the opening them of Radley Balko's Book
Basically, before we had police as we know them today for generations society handled crime by mostly shaming and local customs
This book does a great job explaining this. While it is written from the perspective of cops in the US, I don't think our police forces are all that far behind.
I highly recommend giving it a read.
Appropos of this, if you have not already, read the excellent book Rise of the Warrior Cop, and prepare for your blood pressure to rise. About the hypermilitarization of policing.
ROFL, that is funny right there...
I always love when people assume another person is young or unwise simply because their world view differs from there own.
No I do not have "alot of growing up to do"
My libertarian position has evolved over many many years of research and personal reflection, while it is still evolving and will always until I die, my views on modern policing will not evolve to support the current state of affirs where the police can detonate a bomb in the face of a child with no terminations or criminal charges, where police can murder a person legally carrying a firearm and not be found guilty of murder, where police can raid a home with fully automatic weapons in a military style assault because the occupants toss out some loose leaf tea in their garbage and no one is fired or charged with a crime.
No it sounds like you need to do some more research into the state of Modern Policing, I recommend starting with Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces
I don't believe that incarcerating people as we do actually achieves a safer or better society. I think the war on drugs is a costly sham that infringes on everyone's ability to live in a free country. White lawbreakers, especially drug users, get away with more in my experience than do nonwhites. These are the three arguments that rang true for me in her book, despite blathering on for pages and pages about details that I have no way to verify the truth of, like federal sentencing laws about powdered cocaine versus crack.
We lock up so many damn people. It's not because US people are born more criminal than people elsewhere, I don't think. Something about the "land of the free" having the highest per-capita incarceration rate in the world is fucked up: I'm pretty sure you and I would come to an agreement about that, even if nothing else.
What did you think of Rise of the Warrior Cop, which came out at about the same time?
I was offering the link simply as a means to link to the text itself; and not as an endorsement of the reviews on GoodReads (which I know nothing of their authenticity)
I prefer to read books myself rather than leave it to someone else to decide for me if I ought to read a book or what opinion I ought to have on a particular book
If you prefer I different link to the text that you may find more palatable (or not) https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
I'd be okay with it being banned, but I wouldn't really support it.
Banning something that's not really a problem goes against my personal views. It's like banning assault weapons to stop gun crime, in spite of the fact that killings involving rifles are less than 1% of gun crime. Just stupid feel-good legislation that doesn't do anything to actually combat the problem.
But I'm all for police being on (mostly) the same ground as your average citizen. Much like they are in Britain. Sure, they've got a bunch of buddies, radios, and high-viz vests, but you're not seeing British police shoot black kids all day for wearing a hoodie.
And it really goes back to a mindset. Police in America are in this stupid war-on-cops mindset that they're going to be shot at sometime during their service and need to be on the lookout all the time for the lone gunman who's going to shoot them. That's a completely false narrative that leads to thousands of needless civilian casualties every year. More police die on-the-job of heart attacks and traffic accidents than of violence.
If you ever get bored, this is a pretty good read. Really opens your eyes to what police are nowadays, versus what they're intended to be.
There is an incredibly good book that answers that question and gives a full background on the reasoning. It's called <em>Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces</em>. I highly recommend it.
Well, at least I know I'm not arguing with someone who has anything important to say that might help me learn more about the world. I explained that sentence very clearly, and I don't think you could possibly debunk that they "do not work towards my interests, and protect each other no matter what".
Generalizations are very useful in these situations. We've seen police officers from all over the country act in similar ways, because they're all trained very similarly (Documented here), and they have a union that works to enforce a specific culture.
Of course individual police officers are different people. But I've studied psychology long enough to know what the effect of power is on the brain, and that people in power tend to do very similar things when confronted with certain situations. Fear is similar, and police officers seem to be in constant fear (for good reason, they have a dangerous job).
This is truly sickening stuff. The seemingly nonexistent regard for human life by some of the officers that are meant to "protect and serve' is utterly disgusting. If anyone is interested in learning more about how we turned into a police state, I'd highly recommend reading Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces. This is a seriously fucked up situation we've gotten ourselves into and we need to demilitarize the police we literally have a standing army patrolling our streets.
Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
In Rise of the Warrior Cop, Balko shows how politicians’ ill-considered policies and relentless declarations of war against vague enemies like crime, drugs, and terror have blurred the distinction between cop and soldier. His fascinating, frightening narrative shows how over a generation, a creeping battlefield mentality has isolated and alienated American police officers and put them on a collision course with the values of a free society.
That watching incompetent or belligerent cop videos isn't exactly the best way of analyzing large-scale society.
A more sober analysis would probably be something like Radley Balko's <em>Rise of the Warrior Cop</em>
There are far more cities with paramilitary police units than cities with riots. It's a function of the drug war and civil asset forfeiture.
Balko's Rise of the Warrior Cop is a good overview.
More than once on this sub, I've cited the book Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police. It's a bit lengthy, and covers the historical foundation of the Bill of Rights (great read if you're an American history student).
But the real takeaway is that SWAT teams bring their own exigency with them. "Exigency" is just a fancy word for urgent and unexpected circumstances that allow SWAT teams to improvise and shoot dogs and kick in doors and operate without a judge's oversight. But the book makes a compelling argument that SWAT teams create exigency, they create violence where none existed before, they create dangerous situations where none existed before.
What if there are hostages inside a bank during a botched robbery? Sure, send in SWAT. But a house where no one is in any danger? Or a house where no one is threatening anyone? Hey, what if someone is suspected of cock fighting? Just have a celebrity drive a SWAT tank into their house. WCGW?
Check out Rise of the Warrior Cop by Radley Balko
Balko is a must read for anyone interested in police abuse. I'd also recommend his book, Rise of the Warrior Cop. https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces by Radley Balko may be interesting reading for you.
By defund the police, people are referring to the militarization of cops, not literally not paying them anymore. At least, the rational ones are. Why does a Sheriff's office need a tank?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police
https://www.amazon.ca/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
Since you obviously didn't read the article, here's a TL;DR:
"Baton Rouge PD looks ridiculous. I never wore so much armor in combat."
Example 3. Titled "This isn't Baghdad."
In case you still aren't convinced, here's an excellent summary of the militarization of police in America. It's a phenomenon detailed in a book called "Rise of the Warrior Cop" and the first sentence of the Amazon page is "The last days of colonialism taught America’s revolutionaries that soldiers in the streets bring conflict and tyranny."
Strongly recommend you read Rise of the Warrior Cop. I'd be surprised if you still held this opinion after reading.
I highly recommend this book. It talks about the militarization of the police.
https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
Police departments routinely work with "warrior cop" training programs like the infamous "killology" until there's enough public outcry against such training
And here are the results of this training
>There are countless variations, but the lessons are the same: Hesitation can be fatal. So officers are trained to shoot before a threat is fully realized, to not wait until the last minute because the last minute may be too late.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/
https://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05/05/police-de-escalation-training
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer
https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
But you heard from a couple of local cops that doesn't happen so i guess this is all fake news
Way too late to stop a militarized police force, I'd give this a read if you want to get really angry: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
Rise of the warrior cop <br /> https://www.amazon.com/dp/1610394577/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_btf_t1_5L-BFbGPMESD9
Check this book out when you get a chance. https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
> No cop is going to look at me and go, "What a beautiful woman! Let's give her a pass!"
lol, it is amusing (and telling) that you believe attractiveness is the only the only factor.
>The fact is, most people who have a problem with cops when they are doing their jobs (or just existing) are fucking entitled idiots.
I have a problem with cops because I am ethically opposed to the Use of Violence in the enforcement of 99% of the laws on the books
Things like the War on Drugs where police murder people because they happen to have unapproved plant material in their possession. I am a life long Libertarian, I believe in personal liberty, and the Philosophy of Liberty.
I have followed, researched and studied police abuse and the Militarization of police for nearly 17 years
There is a SYSTEMIC problem in policing, it is not "a few bad apples" it is a SYSTEMIC issue, the comes as a direct result of the War on Drugs, and "Tough on Crime" bullshit coupled with Federal programs that give Law Enforcement tools of war to be used on the Streets on US Cities.
The Modern Police force today is nearly indistinguishable from a Paramilitary Organization.
Good for you that your Damsel in Distress routine has allowed you to get assistance from a Warrior Cop with out being Victimized, Shall I start posting links to all the abuse victims that were not as lucky?
Do you want to talk to the parents of the Infant that had his face blown off by a cop that literally tossed an explosive device in the infants crib? Was that just a "bad apple", the police dept did not think so because he is still on the job with no punishment at all
I am sure that baby was violating some law the warranted that violence to be visited upon him
I invite you to Read
Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces
or visit /r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut
I know you think being flippant is perfectly fine, but there has been a dramatic shift over the last few decades and it's not pretty.
The increased used of SWAT teams, heavily armoured vehicles and the shift to "tactical" looking vehicles signifies a significant and unnecessary trend in policing.
"police have a financial incentive to focus on drugs. Federal grant programs, such as the Edward J. Byrne Justice Assistance Grant (JAG) program, reward local and state police for the number of people they arrest."
You are severely misinformed. You are citing anecdotal evidence from 'court in a big city.' AND the statistics you provided only show one crime, the problem is much larger, as I said.
Pick up a copy of this book from conservative writer Radley Balko and you will quickly change your stance. I promise.
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
first... watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
So that's actually a misconception. Police aren't concerned about whether you're truly guilty. That's up to the DA to determine. There job is to find possible perps. If you think about it, not all people arrested are guilty. Not all people found guilty and convicted are guilty, in fact, not all people sentenced to death are guilty.
The police are there to trap you so that the DA has the best chance of convicting you. Do you know why DA's have high conviction rates? Because they get you to plead to a lower charge. If you didn't do a crime but the DA says they have the evidence to put you away for 15 years, do you take the 1 year deal? Of course you do. This is a common DA tactic and it mostly affects poor people because they can't afford a lawyer to take on their case. Sure the state provides a lawyer, but do you understand these lawyers have 10 cases or more per day? They have no time to actually help you, and will suggest you plead out.
So we've switched from police beating the shit out of me because I'm black, to the police arresting me even though I'm innocent. I'm assuming you don't think everyone found guilty is actually guilty? Statistically that's not possible, and its been proven by DNA evidence and false testimony and other issues over the years. In fact, it turns out, that most of the arson "science" that has been used over the years by "scientists" is totall bullshit. Rick Perry let his state execute an innocent man after his entire family was killed in a fire, even thoug all the evidence pointed to him being innocent, but he was executed anyway. There have been articles, documentaries, papers written about this. I guess you could say "don't believe everything you read or see." but then I'd say to you... what do you read or see?
The reality is you need to worry about the police even if you're not breaking the law. Do you even realize you've kind of stumbled across a line of thinking that totalitarian governments use to convince their citizens to give up privacy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument
Also, on a side note, would you tell the people who were killed by police for doing nothing illegal that they have nothing to worry about? Here is a list. And these people were killed. Think of those were just arrested and sent to jail:
http://www.innocentdown.org/the-victims/
What about innocent people executed? Read the info, but first, If you're pro death penalty even if sometimes innocent people are executed, are you cool being that person?
http://www.ncadp.org/pages/innocence
Would you tell the innocently executed they had nothing to fear?
I suggest you read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
Do you have any book suggestions for me?
Read "Rise of the Warrior Cop" by Radley Balko; it will terrify you.
May I recommend a beach read for you?
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=tessierashpool
"Their number one job is not to kill anybody innocent, and they are terrible at it."
Source: http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577 it's a really great read.
We are living a trend of police militarization. Here's a good popular book about it.
How my my demeanour presumptive? I followed all proper rules once pulled over. Or maybe the cop was out of line for talking about my race? What does that have to do with my ticket? No one has mentioned the racial slur of the cop.
The reply to your actual question, read this book by Balko, it is a great read if you want to understand this social issue: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
You can read much more of the formation of the first swat teams in Radley Balko's "Rise of the Warrior Cop". Highly suggested reading.
So what will it take for a statist like yourself to wake up to the reality of the police state you live in... Tanks down mainstreet because that happens as well?
Or is there nothing the police can do you will not apologize way for them
Allow me to Recommend a Book to you that might change are views on Modern Policing
http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577
Its really disappointing to read this... but unfortunately, this was my experience. I can even tell you when the police mentality really changed in my lifetime.
Growing up, we had cops patrolling my neighborhood, it was an extremely safe place. I can remember asking cops for help, walking up to them with even a petty crime and they'd take it seriously and go investigate.
Then, this happened - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Slowly, but surely, police departments around America galvanized about this.
Great book to read on the subject, called Rise of the Warrior Cop - http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577/