Thank you so much sweetie, this made me feel good because I can tell that you know exactly what I'm going through, so no, you're not being dismissive in the least. You know how it is girl. :\ They try to sabotage you in any way they can so that they're the only ones who can have you basically...try to shut you off from the world, convince you that you'll only find trouble out in the world and that all men are perverts and rapists and that you can only rely and trust upon them. It reminds me of that movie Tangled...and depending on how old you are, Matilda as well. It used to be fucking depressing realizing that I would never find my own Miss Honey, honestly I'm surprised my mother even let me watch that movie.
I haven't read any books on the topic myself, I first learned of the term while lurking on here and found that it resonated with a lot of my own experiences but Silently Seduced is recommended a lot on here. I found this website to be very affirming when I first realized how unhealthy my relationship was with my mother and wanted to start my healing process, you might find it useful. Our experiences are just as valid as anyone else's, not to mention that covert sexual abuse can and does often cross the line into overt sexual abuse...but because we're dealing with narcissists, it's in a subtle and manipulative way.
And yeah, I wish I could help everyone, too. But just being there for someone emotionally can do a lot of good. You certainly helped me in that way.
It's not a stretch that she might have said something like that. Check out the book Silently Seduced.
Covert incestuous attention occurs when a child becomes the object of a parent’s affection, love, passion, and preoccupation. The parent, motivated by the loneliness and emptiness created by a chronically troubled marriage or relationship, makes the child a surrogate partner. The boundary between caring and incestuous love is crossed when the child exists to meet the needs of the parent rather than the child.
Dropping this here in case one of Heidi’s kids ever comes across this thread as an adult. Being raised by an enmeshed narcissist is hard 😞
I've been exactly like your husband. I was for many years and it was very unhealthy for my wife and I. I don't want to be melodramatic, but your husband is being emotionally and mentally manipulated by his mother (just as I was). Her reaction is way beyond anything reasonable and your husband should always be on your side. Your marriage, your household, your rules. She does not come first. Your husband is going to need to learn this for you to have a healthy marriage and you're going to have to set boundaries. Your MIL will not like it, and she will try to fight against it in both obvious and subtle ways. He needs to be ready to recognize those things, have a plan for how to respond, etc. If he's anything like I was, it'll be difficult but he will have you to discuss it with him and support him.
I suggest you start marriage counseling. I also suggest you both read the book I linked below. Plenty won't apply to him and his mother/parents (it didn't for me either), but some parts should be very eye opening. I dealt with years of feeling guilt toward my mothers unhappiness and not wanting to upset my parents and trying to make everything work while my wife saw through the manipulation from day 1. The fact that he left too afterward is really concerning. He's not putting you first and it's a problem. It's going to lead to more disagreements and fights if you don't start getting a handle on it now and both of you start getting on the same page.
Don't make the mistake that this is an isolated issue. It's going to come up again and again and again in your future...and it will be magnified x10 if/when you have kid(s).
Feel free to DM me if this post has resonated and you'd like to discuss it some more. I wish you luck and as little pain as possible working through this.
You might want to look up emotional incest. What you are describing is not healthy for either of you.
https://www.amazon.com/Silently-Seduced-Parents-Children-Partners/dp/0757315879
I love that podcast! It's my support group. ;) This is the amazon link to the book: https://www.amazon.com/Silently-Seduced-Parents-Children-Partners/dp/0757315879/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522978196&sr=8-1&keywords=silently+seduced
Have you heard of covert incest , aka emotional incest ?
One of the symptoms is that you tend to carry your parent's contempt for the other parent for them. You know this is the case when you know deep down you have no real reason to feel that level of disgust or anger for someone (rationalisations set aside), or when it isn't your place to feel that way in the first place.
I'm thinking about this because of what you said :
> I do understand that it’s not totally my business
indeed, what parents do with their love life isn't their kid's business, at all. The fact that you feel the need to meddle indicates you've been set in the position of an emotional partner for one of your parents if not both.
> most of these women are people I know within our small-ish community. It’s embarrassing.
This is how an ex reacts, not a kid (my dad was a cheater too)
> He also has never apologized for breaking up my home life twice
I've never heard of separated/divorced parents apologizing to their kids. He had 50% custody, that's as much as you can expect from a divorced parent. The ones he could be expected to apologize to, are his exes for breaking up their relationships. Your relationship with your father still exists, it has only evolved.
> Also, as condescending as this sounds, I find his lack of discipline and tact repulsive...
This evokes deep contempt. It's not condescending, it's an emotion that probably isn't yours to start with, but your mom's. Putting a morale twist to those emotions we carry for others helps makes sense out of them. I used to do it to.
The key word here for me is "repulsive". This is typically the kind of emotion we carry for the cheated one. It sums up most of my teenage years, I carried such contempt for both sides at different times in their story.
> Also: my dad wasn’t a good father otherwise. He was never around when I was a baby, owes my mom tons of child support, doesn’t know what year or day I was born...
These are typically the kind of grudges an ex keeps. Kids would rather reflect on his presence or absence to birthdays and school plays for instance.
I recommend you read up about covert incest, and maybe look up silently seduced by Kenneth Adams.
I know this seems far fetched but ... just look it up. It will take such a huge crushing load off your shoulders, and such a tight suffocating grip off your heart.
I'm so sorry they used you this way. You deserved better.
I've been exactly like your husband. I was for many years and it was very unhealthy for my wife and I. I don't want to be melodramatic, but your husband is being emotionally and mentally manipulated by his mother (just as I was). Her reaction is way beyond anything reasonable and your husband should always be on your side. Your marriage, your household, your rules. She does not come first. Your husband is going to need to learn this for you to have a healthy marriage and you're going to have to set boundaries. Your MIL will not like it, and she will try to fight against it in both obvious and subtle ways. He needs to be ready to recognize those things, have a plan for how to respond, etc. If he's anything like I was, it'll be difficult but he will have you to discuss it with him and support him.
I suggest you start marriage counseling. I also suggest you both read the book I linked below. Plenty won't apply to him and his mother/parents (it didn't for me either), but some parts should be very eye opening. I dealt with years of feeling guilt toward my mothers unhappiness and not wanting to upset my parents and trying to make everything work while my wife saw through the manipulation from day 1. The fact that he left too afterward is really concerning. He's not putting you first and it's a problem. It's going to lead to more disagreements and fights if you don't start getting a handle on it now and both of you start getting on the same page.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0757315879/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Don't make the mistake that this is an isolated issue. It's going to come up again and again and again in your future...and it will be magnified x10 if/when you have kid(s).
Feel free to DM me if this post has resonated and you'd like to discuss it some more. I wish you luck and as little pain as possible working through this.
I didn’t get through the whole thing, but I have a lot of thoughts.
What you wrote about your mom is making me so indescribably angry. My blood is boiling. I am so, so sorry. YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS, AND IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. FUCK YOUR PARENTS.
My parents and your parents are very similar. And what they’re doing to you is not right. That is not what loving parents do to their children. Think about this for a second: imagine being a parent. Think about something your mom did to you when you were a specific age, and then try to think of if you’d do that to your child. Would you tell your child they were a psychopath and potential murderer? Would you control every aspect of their life? Would you mercilessly shame them? Force them to undress and shower in front of you, then manipulate them into apologising for a microscopic thing they supposedly did? Because I would NEVER do that to a child. I wouldn’t do it to a teenager. And I wouldn’t do it to an adult. There is no excuse for that behaviour. Btw, that whole shower/vibrator thing she did, is sexual abuse. If you don’t believe me, here’s a book for you to read, and here’s a podcast you might find helpful. Also, it’s not normal for parents to try to control their children like that. It really isn’t. It’s not okay. BY THE WAY she has NO right to your body and you do not have to let her wash your back if you don’t want her to because that’s super creepy and your body is not hers. Consent is everything. You don’t owe her shit.
YOU ARE NOT ABUSING THEM. That is a classic narcissist tactic employed by parents who abuse their children. You have been abused. You have been hurt.
“She came to town and confronted me towards the end of the year and I told her that there were things I’d never be okay telling her. And it’s still the most hurtful thing I’ve probably ever said to her.” No. Just no. That’s called healthy boundaries. Children are not supposed to tell their parents everything. If she told you that she was hurt by that, fuck her. No. No. No. I don’t have words for how awful that is for her to expect you to tell her everything. That’s so sick.
Financial manipulation is a huge tactic a lot of abusive parents employ. Money does not equal love. You are not obligated to do specific things or say specific things or act in specific ways because they give you money. It’s just another way of controlling and manipulating you.
Please go check out r/raisedbynarcissists. Please. I think you’ll find a lot in common.
Feel free to DM me if you ever need support or validation. You’ve gone through a lot and I’m so sorry you’ve had to endure this.
I recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Silently-Seduced-Parents-Children-Partners/dp/0757315879. See if you identify with the stories in the book. It might explain your situation