What is Reddit's opinion of So You Want to Talk About Race?

From 3.5 billion Reddit comments

I'm a white woman, so I may be wrong here, but I don't think it's as simple to style black hair. I can easily switch my hairstyle - even if I have loads of product in my hair I can jump in the shower before a show and throw it into a braid or pony so it's out of the way. I also wash my hair nightly so it regularly gets redone.

From what I understand about black hair, it takes much longer to style and stays set for longer. It's less likely she did her hair specifically for the ballet (especially if she also got last minute tickets). Assuming that the hair style was a conscious, specific choice for the ballet, and that she could've styled it differently or fixed it in the spur of the moment is a little racially insensitive. And because there's a *lot* of racial issues surrounding hair, it is a race issue even if you would've said something similar to a white women.

I know that it wasn't your intent, but the impact was racist. And there's not really anything you can do to fix the past, know better, do better.

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ETA: I highly recommend So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo. From a book standpoint, it's really well written and such, it's just a good book. But it's also brilliant and has many, many lightbulb moments. It puts everyday racism in the context of history and systematic oppression and is really helpful in getting a better understanding of some seemingly minor interactions.

Buy and read this book. Then read your posts here again and you'll understand what people are getting at. It's not that people don't want you to do your best to be an ally. It's that you're kind of coming into a black space to tell black people about how not-racist you are. It's good that you're speaking out against racism, but coming to the black section of reddit is kind of preaching to the choir. Reddit in general has a racism problem, so it's best to spread these types of messages in those spaces.

Even just reading the first few chapters will give you an idea of what people here are saying.

I can't speak for BBES, but respectful allies are usually welcome.

If you want learn more than you'll get out of a Reddit thread, I find So You Want to Talk About Race? is a great primer for people who want to understand, and are looking for a place to start.

YTA.

Maybe you only meant to compliment the shirt, but you also clearly did not listen to what your friend said about how he perceived it & why.

He is absolutely right that someone who has not experienced racism doesn't get to decide what it is.

Apologize & ask him to explain it to you again.

Or maybe try reading https://www.amazon.com/You-Want-Talk-About-Race/dp/1580056776

Both this comment and the one above are spot on. I would like to add that financial privilege is not the only form privilege that plays into stay at home parenting and that there are many facets to privilege. Ijeoma Oluo wrote very succinctly about this in her book, I'll go ahead and quote her directly "Who doesn't have this same freedom or opportunity that I'm enjoying now."

So though many of us stay home because financially it makes more sense than working another job that would not cover the cost of childcare, this is often times still a choice.

So you want to talk about race? by Ijeoma Oluo. Buy her a copy, have her read it. I'd even pull the "If you really love me, you'll read this." She probably won't make it through the first chapter before she starts seeing herself. It's a great introduction to intersectionality and the idea of privilege.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up. Shouldn't HR be telling your boss to apologize to you? You merely pointed out the situation. Your boss is in the wrong.

You're probably not going to get away from the burden she is placing on you. I guess you could write that you want to move past this situation and that it is a moment for everyone [meaning her] to be their best selves. And then maybe ask what she thinks about reading Ijeoma Oluo's book or Ibram X. Kendi's book together as a team book club? Make sure to say it can't happen without her leadership or vision or whatever quality she wants the most and ask if she thinks everyone on the team can use toward as their DEI goals for the year?

Dude. I'm trying to help you and provide some information but you seem really dug into the "I'm not a racist" knee-jerk defensiveness. I might suggest a couple of books if you really care about learning about this stuff. These should get you started.

https://www.amazon.com/You-Want-Talk-About-Race/dp/1580056776

https://www.amazon.com/White-Fragility-People-About-Racism/dp/B07D6XQQRY

That could be true but I have to say I can't judge it. I mean I'm from Germany and I have to say, bit ashamed of it, that I was long time not interested in politics and just started end of last year to inform me - I mean last year I didn't even know what Karen, besides of course being a name, means^^

True and she even showed some good beginners books - I bought this one

https://www.amazon.de/You-Want-Talk-About-Race/dp/1580056776

My english is not bad but I liked that this wording is not too complicated - I'm working in stem field and some speeches of someone with Master in Politics, social work, gender mainstream and so on are pretty hard to understand if you don't know the vocabulary. Does that make sense?^^

Yeah that idea was so stupid and all those hatred "memes" with her looking like an old nazi propaganda. Disgusting. She is beautiful.

EDIT: But I have to say, that poem I needed to hear twice^^

EDIT2: Please dont get me wrong but I saw a lot of youtubers collecting for black trans. Do they need more help than white, asian or native american trans? I just want to understand^^

I'm reading this. I feel like it's the ultimate self-help book. Anyone can be better.

https://www.amazon.com/You-Want-Talk-About-Race/dp/1580056776

Not always but in certain environments and situations, yes. Micro aggressions don't have to be intentional. People get confused and offended because they think their intention was not discriminatory, they were just curious etc. However, what happens here is that people get asked these questions over and over in situations that are completely irrelevant sometimes with bad intentions. When the next person comes and ask that question, irrelevant of the intention, it triggers past experiences.

https://theithacan.org/opinion/commentary-students-with-accents-face-microaggressions/

https://momentousinstitute.org/blog/where-are-you-from-an-introduction-to-microaggressions

If my memory is not failing me, this book (https://www.amazon.com/You-Want-Talk-About-Race/dp/1580056776) has a section about this.

I don’t care if you hate America or white people, there’s plenty to hate, but at least know what your co-signing.

All the action is between the lines, in the implication. What are these “broadly true…compelling narratives?” The ‘two tier society the police enforce’ is a narrative the activists love from Ijeoma Oluo who gave us this great quote: something is racist if a person of color says it’s racist. In her book she argues that The police were originally created to capture runaway slaves, enforcing the literal two-tier society. She then goes on to say they have carried that mission, theme, ethos, mindset right up until today and is the defining model for explaining police behavior. If you suffer from malignant bias, than the final piece of the puzzle really just clicked in for you. But if you do a little more reading, the picture is much more complex. The other “narrative” involves slavery’s, and the south’s honor culture, criminogenic affect on black culture, and the fact that more police reliably means less crime. You’ve been duped by facile YA tier fiction. Maybe you think that’s the lesser of two moral panics. Understandable, you want to feel like a good guy, don’t want to align yourself with white supremacists, right side of history etc. but it’s a con job.

>Interestingly enough, I think much of the highlighted stuff Jean-Louis and Mohammed claim are broadly true. The police are deployed to punish poverty. Yes, black people often are completely dehumanized. The beginnings of America does have a basis in forced labor - whether through indentured servitude or slavery…Some of the narratives are compelling otherwise

Yes, the “original sin” of slavery was present at the American inception: How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes? But what’s implied? Nicole Hannah Jones has stated that she is in the business of narratives, of mythology, not facts per se (and that she’s never heard of epistemology). Which is why she was comfortable arguing that the American revolution was fought to preserve slavery, the goal is a reversal of the whiteness blackness hierarchy. Anyone who’s read any history knows the founding fathers were deeply flawed. During the revolutionary war Hamilton couldn’t stand moody Washington. Thomas Jefferson was known for being the most elaborate self deceiver. They read their enlightenment thinkers, but shadows of the dark ages lingered for everyone. But what’s the point in constantly focusing on discrediting them by engaging in the norm of slaveholding? They mythologically stand as a proxy for white people in general. They establish the connection between whiteness (conservative thought) and evil. It’s the inverse of the old southern right strategy, and it’s worked well for both parties snapping up votes.

> I am completely against unconscious bias

This is a point that CRT makes and it’s actually a very good point. It’s still in the hypothesis stage scientifically but it’s effects will come to be seen as the defining feature of politics. If you discount the subconscious variable, all your equations will be off. Time to get on board with Freud.

These facile activists are Charles Murray /pol/ tier. Murray says a tremendous amount of true things, but you know exactly what he’s not saying. He crafts his narrative in just such a way to dupe the well meaning. & yes it’s true there are a lot of Jews at the top of media organizations and large corporations. It’s also true they have a culture that emphasizes material acquisition etc. that is all “broadly true”, but you know who you’re getting in bed with there.

> The third form of Reflective History is the Critical. This deserves mention as pre-eminently the mode of treating history, now current in Germany. It is not history itself that is here presented. We might more properly designate it as a History of History; a criticism of historical narratives and an investigation of their truth and credibility. Its peculiarity in point of fact and of intention, consists in the acuteness with which the writer extorts something from the records which was not in the matters recorded. The French have given as much that is profound and judicious in this class of composition. But they have not endeavoured to pass a merely critical procedure for substantial history. They have duly presented their judgments in the form of critical treatises. Among us, the so-called “higher criticism,” which reigns supreme in the domain of philology, has also taken possession of our historical literature. This “higher criticism” has been the pretext for introducing all the anti-historical monstrosities that a vain imagination could suggest. Here we have the other method of making the past a living reality; putting subjective fancies in the place of historical data; fancies whose merit is measured by their boldness, that is, the scantiness of the particulars on which they are based, and the peremptoriness with which they contravene the best established facts of history.

Here, this will answer your questions.

(Short answer: no, that’s not racism.)

I think your friend should have said something, but know--from experience--that it is very hard to do that. Especially when caught unaware and by surprise and even more so when in a group and you're the only one who is speaking up and aren't sure what to say. Calling out racism effectively is something that takes practice and skill and knowledge. Sadly, in our country, your friend (and you!) will have plenty of opportunity to practice in real life situations going forward, so don't let your friend beat themselves up for not having said anything this time. Just be ready and willing to say something next time.

If your friend is interested in being better prepared the next time they hear something racist and want to point it out, reading So You Want To Talk About Race is an EXCELLENT place to start. Another good and helpful read is How to be an Anti-Racist.

I think you might appreciate this book: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/1580056776/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_XjDzCb2ZYMA9J

Rather than getting frustrated with why POC might feel the need to avoid these interactions, perhaps a more constructive line of inquiry would be reflecting on what us white people can do to become kinder, more skillful conversation partners.

We can educate ourselves about racism and our role in dismantling white supremacy. We can get real curious about what triggers our "white fragility" and how we can avoid derailing challenging conversations about race. We can do everything we can to rid ourselves of the harmful conditioning we've implicitly learned through society, e.g. reverse racism. We can purposely seek out sources and learn about issues affecting POC — even when it makes us uncomfortable and sad. (Maybe don't watch that video in public btw!) We can learn to be the kind of allies POC deserve and want to engage with.

There are lots of excellent resources out there on how to do this. I've linked a bunch here and there are more in my comment history. Good luck! :)

>Black lives matter movement is saying that there is white supremacy, which is completely false.

You aren't listening if this is what you take away from #blacklivesmatter

If a button on the node.js website bothers you, here's some fairly light reading that may help you - https://www.amazon.com/You-Want-Talk-About-Race/dp/1580056776

How about you do some research first, to understand what she's saying, so you're not also laying the burden of educating you on her? Because demanding she let you in so you can hear her message is another kind of privilege; the privilege of expecting others to accommodate you, instead of meeting them halfway.