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Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder?
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Has your mom shown signs of BPD before?
Edit: after reading more comments, your mom really sounds like she’s got borderline personality disorder.
I really recommend reading Stop Walking on Eggshells.
The word "borderline" means the border between psychosis and neurosis.
The NIMH definition is accurate, but doesn't ELI5 as you're requesting. Based on the book I link to below, and I can tell you also from my first hand experience, that BPD has roots in feeling worthless. Behavior which can be seen as damaging or uncomfortable or abusive, can also be explained as someone with BPD having an overwhelming need to be perceived as having worth. It's not just being "evil" or "manipulative", there's a reason WHY the behavior occurs. The mindset is closer to: "You're wrong, you aren't hurt by me. I can't have hurt you, because if I did then I was wrong, and if I was wrong you won't love me, and if you don't love me I'm worthless and will be abandoned. So I didn't hurt you, you are not hurt, because I can't be revealed to be worthless." Something like that.
I STRONGLY recommend you read the book "Stop Walking On Eggshells", which describes BPD through the lens of the family and friends of those who suffer from it. It makes it much easier to identify, and to understand the difference between "high functioning" and "low functioning" BPD.
Also, it's worth noting that BPD is often diagnosed alongside narcissistic personality disorder, they amplify each other in some ways.
I hope this helps.
> but soon it went the way of her repeating all the things I've done wrong and how shitty I treated her.
If you're so shitty why hasn't she left you yet? It's a valid question.
I agree with u/Toodark2read that you need marriage counseling - maybe a different counselor - a neutral 3rd party so your efforts don't keep ending up as a weekly dump session for your wife.
The counselor you are currently seeing may not be a good fit for both of you.
The incident with her smashing the bowl is concerning. You have listened to her and her needs for a couple of weeks now. Why are you not able to share any thoughts without her escalating into violence?
> How can I have a functioning marriage when I'm walking on eggshells not knowing when she'll blow up?
Get yourself a copy of Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder regardless of whether she has a Dx for those or not, because the situation is pretty much the same - you're going out of your to avoid upsetting her, and her reaction is not proportional to the actual situation.
Read or listen to this book about managing difficult people (ignore the subtitle, it's relevant to managing any asshole): https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Call a lawyer and meet with him or her ASAP to understand your options, rights, and responsibilities before you make any big moves (or not) - maybe you can get an appointment today to get a quick lay of the land
Consider counselling for yourself. You deserve a talk with someone who will listen with empathy and keep you on track to respecting yourself and demanding respect from others
EDIT: Excuse me OP, I just noticed that your username is jnmil3. I haven't looked at your post history but if by any chance that stands for just no mother in law 3, consider that there might be a good chance your husband has a personality disorder. If your husband has been birthed and raised by someone in cluster B, he might be genetically predisposed to cluster B himself, and it's hard to come out of that emotionally/mentally unscathed. I urge you to read the book I suggested.
PS: I love the flair on this post.
Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder to me.
Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder
By Paul Mason https://www.amazon.com/dp/1572246901/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_3B4yCbRTD0CR3
I didn't expect this thread to generate this much thoughtful commentary and soul-searching, so I'll share this here: if you're curious about BPD, or trying to understand someone close to you who has BPD, this is the book my therapist gave me that is really changing my life right now. It's written for everyday people who aren't well-versed in psychology and it spends a great deal of time explaining the disorder, explaining how the disorder can impact loved ones, and explaining how to set boundaries and mend your wounds.
Ooof this is all too familiar - seriously could have written this myself. I applaud you for wanting to focus on the positives and putting your energy into being the best you can be. That being said, you are absolutely allowed to feel disappointed in the lack of maternal relationship in your life. I am glad you were able to still spend some alone time with your dad this weekend.
You didn't mention BPD, but even still you may find this book helpful in dealing with your mother. It really gave me validation in what I knew to be true as well as methods for dealing with her.
Total sidenote: congrats on the SV! Sending you hugs <3.
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
It was a tough read as I recognized so many of my own and her behavior’s in the descriptions. But overall very helpful.
If you don’t know there are also subreddits devoted to helping ppl recover from being in those types of relationships.
My daughter was born with BPD, some people experience severe trauma in childhood or teen years and develop BPD, it’s a difficult Mental health issue and extremely difficult for the family. I suggest setting appropriate boundaries- this book will help.
https://www.amazon.ca/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/ref=nodl_
I suggest setting the boundary of get help or move out. It seems harsh I know, the thing with BPD is if you give an inch they take a mile and destroy the entire family in the process.
“We love you, we want you to be healthy and happy, this behaviour and way of living is destructive to you, to our relationships and to our home. We are no longer willing to allow this to continue, if you choose not to get help then you are choosing to leave, if you choose to get help we will help you find treatment. No matter what this behaviour cannot continue going forward, as much as it pains us to do so we will forcibly remove you from the home if you continue this”
Then follow through...... you need to hold her accountable by checking her room/bathroom etc and Kick her out if need be.
You are doing her zero favours by enabling her to live this way. She is an adult and will need to function in the adult world, treatment is the only answer for her. Plus BPD is extremely difficult for family members and many families are destroyed because of the lies, manipulating, financial abuses from the BPD family member, you need to protect your marriage and any other children in the home (you also need to protect your property).
Hugs to you and your family, you’re not alone, there are many BPD families out there. My heart goes out to your daughter she is suffering and her behaviour is crying out for help.. I truly hope she gets help ❤️
I wasn't sure if mine met these criteria until I read Stop Walking on Eggshells. Now I'm pretty certain she meets at least 7 of the 9. So having those criteria explained and be shown examples of each one would really help. But we're not her therapist, so none of us could truly say.
But all that really matters here is how it affects OP here. And it sounds like it's absolute hell.
Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but there absolutely is a book that can help you deal with BPDs. > Stop Walking on Eggshells has already helped nearly half a million people with friends and family members suffering from BPD understand this destructive disorder, set boundaries, and help their loved ones stop relying on dangerous BPD behaviors. This fully revised edition has been updated with the very latest BPD research and includes coping and communication skills you can use to stabilize your relationship with the BPD sufferer in your life. This compassionate guide will enable you to:
Make sense out of the chaos Stand up for yourself and assert your needs Defuse arguments and conflicts Protect yourself and others from violent behavior
In my experience with my mother, there was just no way to ever "hold them accountable", I.E. prove they did something wrong or harmful. She would either shut down, or more often fly off the handle in rage. But this book promises ways to de-escalate the situation, and I think that's the best you can hope for. My dad's read the book and said it helped him deal with the trauma, and I'm about to start reading it myself.
This book has helped me, as well as my family and the few close people I share my diagnosis with.
http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Within a few pages you will see some great advice.
It may also help to speak with a therapist
Look up borderline personality disorder. His behavior sounds very much like that. Borderlines desperately want to be in a loving relationship but they absolutely cannot trust that it's real, so they will question anything and everything about what you do. Every day, you're guilty until proven innocent and, even then, the next day will be a whole new trial.
Like you, I was stuck in a relationship with one and I needed a therapist to help me get out. There's a great book, Stop Walking on Eggshells, for people in relationships with borderlines. Don't just skim it. Read it.
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901?ref_=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=d22b690e-f87b-418c-887a-21e820ce7f5c So here is the overview on the book. It teaches them dbt skills and how to difuse arguments etc. I hate saying this, but I think you're overreacting to the title. It's not like he went out looking for a book with that title. It got recommended to help him achieve skills to help you.
Sounds like BPD to me. Although I'm not a psychologist I have been reading this book. Maybe it might help you identify and understand what is happening. I think she might need help that only a psychologist will be able to do. The book should help shed some light on what is going on.
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
One thing it says in the book early on is you can't just tell them they have BPD as you might get negative result. Also non-BPDs play a part in it as well.
P.S. I haven't read all of it but from what I read so far, it's pretty good
Stop Walking on Eggshells is a very good book for people who have been in romantic relationships with BPD people. https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901 I just realized a lot of what I posted was from my own experience with my mother, but if you look through some of those links and forums you'll see information and support about people who are in romantic relationships as well as family ones. Hugs to you. You are not alone.
>"I have to be allowed to say what I'm feeling"
Telling someone else they are stupid etc is not a feeling.
I might be off base here but there's a book that I think might help you to redefine your boundaries with your wife, https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
I'm sorry you're going through this. I've actually been in your shoes. Stayed married for 17 years and eventually filed for divorce after she went completely off the rails.
This book was revelatory for me. No idea what your wife's situation is, but her behavior sounds a lot like mine and the crux of it was BPD.
Be well and good luck! 🍀
Narcissism is very specific. What you all are describing reminds me of great advice I got in therapy: look into borderline personality disorder. I recommend this book Stop Walking on Eggshells
Oh my gosh. Your mom sounds like my mother in law. I am so sorry you are going through this and it's so sweet that you try to be around for your siblings. Please take care of yourself today and remember that none of this is your fault.
Just wanted to toss this book out there - it might be helpful in helping you deal with her abuse. Stop Walking on Eggshells: https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Understanding the Borderline Mother is also another really great read about these kinds of volatile, intense, and unpredictable relationships such as what you described.
Not to be a downer, but after being married to someone with BPD for 30 years, I can honestly advise you to think very carefully about marrying them.
Just saw your edit. Look there is no point in trying to appease her and negotiate with her, she's not coming from a rational or reasonable place.
Read this book, it will save you a LOT of grief. https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
I was married for 14 years to a woman who is exactly like the woman you post about.
The last 3 years were a nightmare.
I finally left her with the help of my lawyer, accountant and psychologist.
I can tell you now that the *only* thing that works regarding her is "hard boundaries".
She was eventually diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder.
I'd talk to an experienced Psychologist who works with BPD patients. A lot of Psychologists won't take BPD patients because they wreak havoc on people's lives.
Another place to start is a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells"
That pretty much saved my life.
I wish you a good outcome.
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/ref=sr\_1\_4?crid=1Y2HE9QQXGT1P&keywords=stop+walking+on+eggshells&qid=1637947347&qsid=140-9705991-9320233&s=books&sprefix=stop+walking+%2Cundef...
This is great book for people with loved ones who are BPD. It may well be worth a read for you as well to see if you can recognize traits in yourself based on the scenarios covered in the book.
https://www.amazon.ca/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/ref=nodl_
The book “Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder” may be helpful.
People with BPD are often chronically suicidal and can be quite manipulative. Best for you to get counseling to set firm boundaries with your daughter and learn what you can and cannot change. This is a very challenging disorder. It’s ok to set limits with how much you handle and which behaviours you will tolerate and not. Firm boundaries actually HELP them and save their relationships.
Link to book: https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Link to the book on Amazon if anyone is interested. I’m still at the beginning where it just lays out explanations of all the symptoms and traits, but I highly recommend it.
Buy this book and read it. See if it applies.
If it does, run...don't walk, as far from this relationship as possible.
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/ref=sr\_1\_2?dchild=1&keywords=stop+walking+on+eggshells+book&qid=1628183291&s=instant-video&sr=1-2
I cannot speak to JJD, but EAR/ONS suffers from unconventional borderline personality disorder with narcissistic features. cc: Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder
Check the book, Walking on Eggshells (Amazon link). It's a good book for people partnered with someone with BPD and gives advice on how to set boundaries (protect your mental health), and support your SO. I really would highly recommend you give it a look.
You're not in a great position if I am honest.
You have anxiety and he is a trigger, and BPD takes a long road to recovery, and to be honest, you need to be able to put up a wall and be a strong person to deflect the emotional swings of BPD - otherwise they will be demoralising and hurtful. This wasn't easy for me to start, but through studies of BPD and it's behaviours, and conversations with my partner, I was able to see the warning signs, attempt de-escalation or remove myself from the conflict if need be. I was able to do that because I don't have anxiety.
I am sorry to be honest, I think the fact you do is really going to make this impossible to move forward with, especially if he is not in DBT therapy already (and even then, the progress to make on that isn't easy, it takes time and requires constant effort from you both).
I would consider maybe taking the hard short term road, of focusing on your own mental health and well being first in this situation as you are in a position where you can't focus on yours and his together.
However, that being said - if you are wanting to try push through this (and I love you for that), you need to be firm, and put conditions down, you need to build a stable framework in order to get him into DBT and ensure the DBT sticks. Stability is King in a relationship that involves BPD.
There are some books you can read, like this one: Stop Walking on Eggshells - which will give you the tools to be firm, and help encourage the normal response behaviours one should have (rather than BPD reactions).
Okay, so this is harder than I thought because I've not read any NParent-specific books. The best book I ever read was "Splitting," which is a guide to divorce from an NPD/BPD. Incredibly helpful; it explained WHY the N acted the way they do as well as the behavior to use to combat it.
It's by two authors: one focuses on legal/business fights with NPDs (not helpful) and the other is an expert on BPD. Even though this book is for BPD, I wonder if it would help, since many of the coping mechanisms are similar. https://smile.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/ref=pd_sbs_14_11?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1572246901&pd_rd_r=80QY46RJJB9ZJ5D2XAWS&pd_rd_w=5JbfC&pd_rd_wg=LtdmZ&psc=1&refRID=80QY46RJJB9ZJ5D2...
Your boyfriend has a personality disorder, perhaps such as Borderline Personality Disorder. This is an excellent book that can help you get on a track for recovery (even if it's not exactly BPD it's still a good book to read for this sort of abuse):
The 'not remembering' bit seems linked to narcissistic injury and narcissistic rage; sadly I have also experienced it.
> The issue is, with his BPD, anytime I say something even slightly negative or unpleasant, he beats himself up over it and gets upset, even if I tell him it's not a horrible thing or really bad. I don't know how else to approach it delicately.
Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder might be a good read for you.
> He 'drains the pipes' pretty much daily, at work as far as I know, since I'm always home before he is and he's never absent long enough to do so.
This is pretty common scenario here. He has a libido and is choosing not to share it, with you in preference of masturbating. This isn't okay, but you also can't make someone who doesn't want to have sex with you, want to have sex with you.
Hey, I suggest you purchase this book if you really want to invest in learning about how best you can support your friend. It's only $11 on amazon (ships prime), and I gave it to my best friend and it really has helped her understand how best she could support me, but also made our relationship much more stable.
Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Bor... https://www.amazon.com/dp/1572246901/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_hFuCyb4XNAAXB
There are books I've seen recommended. Walking on Eggshells is one of them. I've never read it, so I couldn't give you a personal opinion on the book.
We do have BPD members in this group, but I'm sure that not all of them will really want to talk about it. People with BPD are allowed to participate here as long as they follow the rules and exercise good boundaries.
There are subreddits on the topic. /r/BPDlovedones might have better answers for you. They don't allow people with BPD to post there, but they do specialize in the topic. There is also /r/BPD... tho I've never been there, so I don't know how that sub works. Their sidebar says it is for people who even just want to learn more and that would be you.
I definitely do not recommend /r/raisedbyborderlines. The mods of that subreddit promote a lot of misinformation about BPD and god forbid you piss them off and they may very well start a smear campaign against you. No joke. I'd steer wayyyy clear of that place. It's got a lot of problems.
Stop Walking on Eggshells has some useful tactics in dealing with difficult people.
I don't have any clear answers, but I do have a book recommendation. This one helped me figure out how to handle a BPD lady in my life. I hope it can help you as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/
This is a good resource to get an idea how to cope. Obviously, it isn't going to be a cure, but educating yourself goes a long way.
I married the love of my life. I also married BPD. Had I known it at the time, I wouldn't do one damn thing different. To say it's a pain in the ass to deal with day in and day out it the understatement of the century. I'm comfortable saying that even though we haven't been through much of this century yet.
You need a therapist who actually knows what BDP is. You might be surprised how many are completely ignorant about the disease. They can help you understand how to communicate effectively with someone who really doesn't know who they are.
Is your friend in any sort of treatment? If someone with BPD is seeking treatment, I feel like there is a chance at a relationship. If they're in denial of their diagnosis or if they refuse treatment (DBT or the like), run for your life.
I wish you all the best. I've made it 14 years with a SO who finally decided she wanted to get better a couple years ago. We're not better, yet. We've made a lot of progress, though.
Drugs and the like may take care of comorbidities (bipolar, depression, etc.), but they're unlikely to have much effect on BPD itself.
IDK about therapist and I really don't have any hopes that you can actually fix this. In reality, it's probably just wasting the rest of your youth. But, if you want some help, this book, Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder, is well regarded.
I am a gay male with Borderline Personality Disorder, and I have had romantic involvement with another BPD guy. He and I are also around your age. I think the warnings stretch far beyond "be prepared for somebody who is really, really clingy and needy".
The advice I could give would have to be centred around his particular experience of Borderline Personality Disorder, so you'll have to give me more details. I'm an impulsive subtype and I don't experience rage, but I have experienced the stalking that he's talking about. I would say that manifests itself in the actual relationship as extreme insecurity.
I agree with /u/DementedSheepGirl that you should definitely, definitely speak with him about his thoughts, feelings, and inner experiences. To be understood is the plight of man. Just ask him what it's like on a daily basis for him, if he experiences the stuff they talk about on the internet, if he would be glad for you to get a book for loved ones with BPD (like Stop Walking on Eggshells, a book my ex-boyfriend bought to try to understand me more). Because I get the feeling, as with nearly all Borderline people, that they are doing better than they seem (Marsha Linehan calls this "apparent competence"). Or they are currently in a calm period but may slip into an episode somewhere down the line.
But that all depends on what his inner maelstrom of emotion and thought is like (analogous to "how severe his BPD is", but he may have gone into remission entirely from the disorder, so I think "inner maelstrom" is more accurate).
That's because that was the name of the book and workbook written to help those living with someone who has bpd in their family. Good advice but didn't end up saving my relationship. :-(
Peach, I can see how much you’re hurting. Even as adults, we often still think of parents as our safe space—where we can go when we are really suffering. And in the period of around the year, you have lost yours. And not only that, she is attacking you. I’m one of those who believes messing with you psychologically is often worse than physically (not taking about severe physical abuse). And you made every effort to turn things right and it didn’t work. You have given her room to make her own decisions even though you didn’t agree with them. And it’s almost like you have had to take the role of parent to your mom. There is not a lot of hurt greater than what you are experiencing. I have a couple of comments that I hope can be the tiniest bit helpful to your main question. I have some similar experiences and I’m a psychologist (but this is not professional advice). 1. Psychiatric hold—the biggest question here is whether she has lost truly lost touch with reality. In one sense, all Qanon people have but there are definitely degrees. In some people, Q can trigger a psychotic break, a break that probably could have also been triggered by any variety of “alternate belief systems.” Case in point-In another post I talked about my dad having a horrendous psychotic break—he was hearing voices, thought he was going to be the richest man in the world, would show up home out of the blue with a new car. This was before Q. And he started getting into these super New Agey beliefs—like he was enlightened. In the past, he would not have come near such beliefs. So his psychosis consisted had the new belief system but also the hearing of voices and all that. The cops picked him up behind some business in the middle of the night. He had to be hospitalized bc he just wasn’t functioning. My mom had to have him committed. It was the right choice. They can hold them only for one or two days though. Check the laws in your state. But he ended up agreeing to stay about 10 days. 2. If you think before the Qanon, did your mom have any of the behavior tendencies you describe. Like did she ever put you down, accuse you of not loving her, get pissed off when you disagreed with her, scream at you, make your relationship contingent on your agreeing with her, not respectful your rights as an adult, jealous—any of those. Or did she show such behaviors with your dad? She sounds a little bit like someone with “borderline personality disorder.” She manipulates, has dramatic emotional outburst, accuses etc. If these tendencies are pre-existing, the Q stuff has probably just given her another outlet for her dysfunction. I’m not saying this is not as serious as a psychosis. It is a diagnosis that has no no cures. The person sees others, not themselves as the problem and are not motivated to work on themselves. Being around people like this is described as walking on eggshells. 3. Your mom will likely be very, very pissed off if she is committed. If you think she is psychotic, she needs to be committed. If she is borderline or brainwashed, it won’t do much good and it might get even more difficult living with her. However, if she threatens to seriously hurt herself or others, that is a classic situation where someone should be committed. And remember, committing is not for life. Don’t worry about that. 4. Please take everything here with a grain of salt. I don’t know your mom. And regarding the links below, any of the different diagnoses can occur together. 5. Please, please, please see a professional therapist if you have the means. They will help you figure this out. Therapy doesn’t mean something is wrong with you. You and Dad could go together. 6. Don’t ever forget you are a fantastic daughter. Bless your heart ❤️.
Some links: Borderline Personality Disorder
I highly, highly recommend you get a copies of:
and I sincerely wish you the best outcome, whatever that winds up being.
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Not saying the streamer definitely has BPD. I'm not qualified to make that call from one video.
But I think that's a pretty fucked take, mate.
>Does anyone’s else’s BPD parent refuse to accept that their memory isn’t the actual version of events?
Absolutely. Yes, it's relatable; yes, it's noteworthy; yes, it's gaslighting; yes, most of us have been through it, and sorry you have to endure it.
>She’s also so stubborn in that her beliefs on other people can’t change. I said things when I was a 13 year old kid, and if I say something now that’s different to that (as a grown ass woman), she’ll always say ‘well you didn’t used to say/think that’
It's not that she doesn't understand that people can't change.
It's that she can't grasp that people are not equivalent to her mental model of them, which are, in any case, just slightly modified copies of her self.
When she see a mistmatch, she feels uneasy.
>"well you didn’t used to say/think that"
If I had a dollar for every time my uBPD mom said that, I'd be able to pay for her therapy with that. Often it is said to me a form of control whenever I try to establish boundaries.
Well, duh! I can't jump to your whims now as eagerly as when I was 16, didn't have to work a job, didn't have a partner, and was living with you, mom.
>She just frustrates me SO much that I dread talking to her.
Been there! Here's a trick that helps.
Read the book Stop walking on eggshells, and see how much what you frustrates you is literally just BPD.
Journal every, and I mean every conversation. If it's a phone call, type/write as you speak -- and document the BPD symptoms like the ones you just wrote about.
Instead of feeling attacked, I now feel like I'm playing a game of bingo - literally, check out the bingo sheet someone made.
Thanks for sharing. Everything you said is relatable.
>walking on eggshells
That is literally part of the title of a popular book about borderline personality disorder.
Many people with BPD behave like your wife in that they are quick to anger and slow to forgive. The best way I've heard their daily experience described is "imagine your negative emotions; irritability, disappointment, resentment... but you experience them 10x more strongly, all the time".
>about 24 hours of her being extremely difficult, throwing my bids to reconnect with her back in my face, and continuing to point fingers and tell me how I’m the problem.
Nod. Nod. See me nodding ? That's everyone with a BPD loved one nodding about the cycle.
Let me take an educated guess: you apologize because you recognize the kernel of truth in her complaint, and are told "I don't want to hear you apologize, I want you to not do [the thing] again and you always do."
Another educated guess ? She doesn't behave this way with other people. In fact, the ring of the doorbell will be like flipping a switch, in which she's all smiles and friendly conversation.
Among personality disorders, BPD is one of the most complex ones. It often is suffered in parallel with PTSD, whether from assault/abuse or childhood.
But it's also treatable by various forms of behavioral therapy, but only by a sufferer who has sufficient perspective and desire.
You can learn to understand it too, and to blunt some of the impact it has on you.
For many people, the only way to improve a relationship with a person with BPD is to end it. In every support group for it, you'll find a large number of people (almost all men), who subscribe to the sunk cost theory and have elected to endure that treatment for the rest of their lives.
All I know about your wife is three paragraphs. But I would invite you to check out that book, and the /r/BPDlovedones subreddit, and compare it to your experience.
That one is a good read. Here is a link to it for anyone reading this here.
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
PS! After seeing your other comment: I recommend checking out books about NPD and BPD and techniques for dealing with such folks. Stop Walking On Eggshells helped me immensely many years ago, and it looks like there are similar current popular titles like Becoming the Narcissist's Nightmare that might offer you a bit of relief in your day-to-day interactions with your mother.
Best of luck, internet stranger!
I strongly suggest you buy & read this book!
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder Paperback – by Mason and Kreger
Sounds like she has BPD. You might want to read Stop Walking on Eggshells. That books changed my life.
Good luck! 🍀
As much as I hate Amy, it has to be said that Mersh and Royce hit the nail on the head with their video about how Owen the Narcissist emotionally abuses and controls YoAmes.
Ignoring someone and then blasting them for not "asking you what was wrong" is literally the MOST FEMININE THING YOU CAN DO to play headgames, and it's also an abuse tactic used by Bi-polar abusers to gaslight and control their victims.
Not to armchair psychology too much, but owen very much treats Amy as a slave. She's "walking on eggshells" around him. https://www.amazon.ca/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Amy has two very obvious tactics for dealing with owen:
- laughing at every thing he says
- agreeing with everything he says
It really does seem like misogynistic thinking is why we have a huge amount of undiagnosed women with ADHD (primarily inattentive = not troublemakers) and autism.
In my case, my mother has not been officially diagnosed with BPD. This is my assessment. This is because her behavior patterns are 100% consistent with behavior patterns described in the following books:
As well as solid 8 out of 9 DMS diagnostic criteria.
Moreover, looking at my life back into childhood, she has had these symptoms for as long as I can remember. And looking at books that describe children of parents with BPD, it's scary how much applies to me, and how much I have to unlearn.
>BPD especially for women are applied to patients who don't respond to treatment and are argumentative, unlikable or annoying
My mom is far from being unlikeable; in fact, she is quite charming with others. And not untreatable - I did see her BPD symptoms improve once she finally started talking to a therapist in the wake of my father's death.
Out of all the symptoms, the ones that get me the most are:
relying on me for emotional support at all times, on all subjects, from her work to her love affairs
having expectations of me that are appropriate for a partner or a parent
splitting: seeing everything in black and white, and seeing me as evil traitor the moment we disagree on anything, forgetting that anything positive ever came from me. Alternatively, I would be seen as the "golden child", which is without fault and would be intensely adored. But I can't accept that intense adoration because I know that the rage is coming within a week.
Extreme rages. Uncontrollable anger, to her own detriment, regardless of when, where, and to whom. This includes physical violence, in addition to emotional one.
Extreme fear of abandonment, real or perceived. Extreme remorse for being abandoned. After my dad died, every day for a year she would tell me how much of an asshole he was for dying and leaving her "all alone".
Complete inability to see another person's point of view. Anyone who wouldn't do something the way she would, or think something that she would makes her angry. That goes from coworkers to family members to that random dude at the airport with tunnel piercings who was just, like, being there.
Honestly believing that everyone must be exactly like her
Extreme intolerance of boundaries of my side. Any boundary is perceived as rejection, and rejection is abandonment, and threat of abandonment means total war.
Unhealthy coping mechanisms, such as alcohol abuse and binge spending.
Forming opinions about literally everything and everyone in her head, and then only using confirmation bias to confirm them.
Being extremely jealous of me caring about anyone else, including friends and relatives and my partner. Attributing any disagreements to someone "putting that in my head" or "controlling" me.
On that note, comparing herself to my partner and insisting I acknowledge her superiority
Constantly "testing" my loyalty and allegiance
Unable to process her own emotions, and needing to start an argument with someone else and see them angry to let out her own anger
Having no idea what she is really like, and so constantly doubting herself, having no sense of inherent worth, and never valuing her own achievements; and thus needing constant affirmation of her worth from others and having a meltdown when it doesn't come;
Feeling "surrounded by enemies" at all times - at workplace, in the family, etc - who are all just trying to use her and cause her pain. Especially whenever their behavior doesn't match the expectation she has in her head.
Saying that she "doesn't recognize me" whenever I am not playing a role of the happy child she wants to see me as. Particularly, getting angry at me for being depressed, needing help, needing space, and so on
Giving me adult responsibilities from back when I was a teen - including managing family finances and bank accounts, being in charge of keeping track of bills, filling out forms, etc
Inability to understand the concept of respecting other person's space. No locks on doors in my childhood home. My childhood memory: holding up the door handle so that she wouldn't get in during a rage. Also an adulthood memory.
Self-sabotaging behavior to get attention. Like "considering" putting all of her lifetime savings into a shady deal to co-purchase an apartment in the city she moved out of with a friend she barely knew - just when I said that I have a rough time at work, and need time to get back on track when I can't give her as much attention.
Inability to value aspects of others that she wouldn't like in herself. Inability to understand why other people could enjoy things she doesn't, and telling me I should not (e.g. I shouldn't go camping because only an idiot would do that).
Inability to accept simple phrases like "Mom, I can't talk now" and "Let's talk about this later" without exploding. A good reason is required for not talking to her when she wants it, and the reason must be something she respects. So it can't be doing something with my partner or friends. "They will wait".
Putting me in charge of her emotional state. Calling me at 2AM saying she feels sad and lonely, complaining about living without a partner, and asking me to say "something" to make her feel better.
Never giving a single flying fuck about anything that's important to me if it's not important to her. This goes from me getting a PhD ("a waste of time") to me telling her that enjoyed doing something that she doesn't care for.
OK, that's just to start.
I can go on for much, much longer - please let me know if I should take one of these books out, and go through them saying which parts apply. It's been on my to-do list anyway.
So while we can discuss statistical trends and I would agree with you, this is really not the case here.
PS: among my circle of friends, looking at our partners and parents and assessing them unofficially the ratio is closer to 1:1 for male/female with likely BPD:
- 2 fathers, 1 male partner
- 3 BPD mothers
I'd guess it's because anger and aggression in men is somehow more acceptable in this society, so it flies under the radar more often. Like all disorders, the diagnoses is often issued when people cause problems to others, and if they suffer on their own, the system isn't there to support them.
I work with psychiatrists. One recommended this book about BPD https://www.amazon.com/dp/1572246901/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_-GKbGbJ97R0GC
There’s a book calledStop Walking on Eggshells.
And there may not be anything to do except decide to move on.
> If you make the significance of this mistreatment dependent upon labeling your mother
Hi--I think she's trying to understand? Get a handle on it?
Because to a sane person, it makes no sense.
Send a sick kid to school because she wants to go? WTF? Why?
Borderlines and narcs are so incomprehensible at times that sane people can be driven mad--it makes no sense.
They hurt others; they hurt themselves. Why?
And there are good books to help with that:
Ah, Amazon has a personality disorder page:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/600620/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_1_4_last
Anyway, I think she is trying to understand something that makes no sense to so many of us!
You may find you will have to get over those (otherwise healthy) impulses. You cannot help her in the ways you think you can. Attempts you make to help will end up enabling the bad behavior and your own values will slowly but surely be steamrolled under her emotional weight. If you are living in fear, you already know what I’m talking about.
There are things you can do to help, but most are learned skills and are counterintuitive. The books will help you a lot! Most of what you have to do is your own internal work and make hard decisions about what you are willing to accept and tolerate.
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
https://www.amazon.com/Hate-You-Dont-Leave-Understanding-Personality/dp/0399536213
Might be worth reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" (whether or not your mom does or doesn't have BPD, advice could still be applicable): https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
There are two books I highly recommend you (and your parents) read:
- Stop Walking on Eggshells, by Randi Kreger
- Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder, by Shari Manning
I haven't read Randi Kreger's book The Essential Family Guide to BPD, but I imagine this might even be more appropriate for you/your family given this is your sister. Randi is one of the leading authorities on the subject.
Good luck, I'm sorry to read that you and your family are going through such a rough time.
Oh no wonder! Check this book out if you haven't already:
There's a great book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder" :
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Amazon reviews : https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901#customerReviews
Hard to know from what you give us here. Might be you, might be her. Another possibility: maybe she has BPD. Her needing to be helped and rescued all the time sounds BPDy to me, as does the way she makes you feel insane and all wound up. Why not read up a bit on BPD and see if it describes her well?
Agree on all points. I'm fighting everyday to have my rational thoughts take control of my life again.
Also, Stop Walking on Eggshells helped me very much.
Read up on the subject and visit on-line forums dedicated to it. You can start with Mason and Krieger's Stop Walking on Eggshells or visit BPD Family, or Out of the Fog. These place are oriented toward helping families/spouses dealing with people with BPD, but they can probably help point you to sources for dealing with BPD in a more professional and not familial environment.
A few books that i've found helpful:
My wife of 24 years has BPD. She was diagnosed 4 years in and it devastated her. She already felt like she was a failure and to have the diagnosis confirmed her fear. It has also made it harder for her to get a doctor as many refuse to deal with BPD. It is considered to be too broad of a diagnosis and medication rarely helps enough to matter.
Have you read Stop Walking on Eggshells? Or I Hate You -- Don't Leave? If not I highly recommend them. They helped my wife understand that she was not alone. And that BPD was something she can't control. Personally, I try to think of it as if she has lost a limb. She can't make the limb come back and she can't magically become whole again. Leaving her would be no different than leaving a woman with cancer.
Love in a relationship will carry you through the tough times. My wife tries my last nerve on many occasions and I have to remind myself that she doesn't mean it. Though it is tough. You catch yourself asking if this is the way she really feels and not the way she pretends when she is acting rationally.
My wife has attempted suicide more than 10 times. The doctors say they were cries for help, but they don't seem to care enough to help. They admit her and release her. What more can they really do? She is better when she leaves. She just needs to get past the bad spell.
I would prefer to not give specific situations I have gone through for all of Reddit to read. I would suggest you don't stay single or lonely as it will just give you ammo for your self loathing. There are people out there that are willing to go through tough love. They have sort of a "rescuer" personality. Wanting to be that person that saves you from you. You will have bouts that you make their life miserable, and then hate yourself for your actions. They will argue with you and give you the idea that they don't love you. The key to remember though, is that they are refusing to "fuel/fan" your flame (anger). The easiest way to get my wife through a major bout is to make her so upset she shuts down for a couple hours. Force her to flame out. Then she starts the stabilization phase and is good the next day.
I hope that helps a little. As I said, I highly recommend the 2 books (I don't get a kickback). And just because you have BSP it doesn't mean you should be unhappy and not find love.
To add to /u/layercake4's suggestion of DBT, there are some excellent support groups for families and partners of people with BPD. If there is nothing in your area, you could try reading some really excellent self-help books, e.g. Stop Walking on Eggshells or Loving Someone with BPD.
My soon to be ex (been saying this for 7 months now since the separation) is bipolar (diagnosed) and
BPD (undiagnosed, I was able to see her for what she is, after the separation, after many therapy sessions
where I described the ex's symptoms to a psychiatrist with 40+ yrs experience)
My ex has had a pattern of under medicating or non-medicating for her bipolar (going off the lithium completely)
She also has a mother who has always jumped in and fabricated stories to get her out of trouble
even if that means that other people go to jail.
The ex's mother has her own mental health issues (life long NPD)
What can I say, I married into The Addams Family.
When I married my ex I was inexperienced and ignorant about the gravity and seriousness of mental illness.
(BPD and bipolar)
My ex did have a full blown manic episode in 2013 where she accrued about $60K debt (on her CCs),
abandoned me and the kids twice and ran off to Vegas (where she spent the night at a single dad's
house who she went to high school with and who messaged her repeatedly on Facebook telling her that
he had a crush on her) She always maintained that nothing happened, however given the fact that
she has lied to me in the past, I don't really trust her on that point.
That 2013 manic episode ended with the ex driving back and attacking her mother leading to the ex
getting 5150'd, spending 5 days at a mental health institution. While there she claimed the male orderlies
gang raped her at night after drugging her. I thought about getting a gun, driving there, finding out who
these orderlies were and ending them.
Then I thought about my kids, missing out on their lives and the possibility that my ex was desperate
enough to invent this crap just so she'd be discharged.
I had gotten my own place and signed a lease during that time.
Also my in-laws took my kids and I was too ignorant about the law to go over there and take my kids with me.
Idiot. I will forever regret not doing anything then. I could have walked away with my kids free and clear.
I should have taken the kids to my parents' and filed for sole legal guardianship.
The ex got out after 5 days, took the kids to her house, we ended up reconciling 3 months later.
Stupid, stupid, stupid, I'm kicking myself for not doing anything back then.
Fast forward to Dec 2014. In the meanwhile, ex has again been under medicating and having
mini manic episodes. Couple the mania with the BPD and you will understand that my life was hell.
The relationship went off the rails in 2013 so the BPD symptoms and her unloading / externalizing on me
became a regular thing with us. Projection, accusations, blame, anger out of the blue, manipulation,
and ever increasing list of harder to meet demands followed by worse and worse threats of what would
happen if I did not cave, more and more entitled attitude and actions on her part.
Dec 2014, the violent incident where the ex attacked me. It started out with her throwing away food I'd cooked,
I took my smartphone out, filmed her outburst, she couldn't stand being on candid camera so she clawed at me and
punched me. I called the cops the harpy mother in law swooped in and took the ex and our kid before police
arrived, went to the 2nd kid's school and pulled her out of class early. Then, they holed up at my in-laws house.
Worthless fucking police sit on their ass, do nothing, even though my ex attacked me and kidnapped my kids.
I'm sorry, I'm sure there are a lot of good cops out there but police have been nothing but trouble for me
after every one of her outbursts. On a separate prior instance during the marriage, I even got arrested for
domestic violence after an incident where my ex attacked me and I defended myself (mother in law arrived
at the scene first again and I was stupid enough to take her advice and not say anything to the police while
the ex claimed I hit her) Perp walk in handcuffs n front of my kids, everything. God, I so hate my ex and her
mother. Obviously, I told the police everything that happened at the station. No criminal charges filed.
Currently my ex has a pattern of violence (attacked her mother, got 5150d, attacked me etc.)
There's a pattern of lying to the court on her part. (distortion campaign against me)
There's a pattern of her mother giving false testimony, backing up the ex to the death.
Continuing with the Dec 2015 incident, the ex splits, files for divorce, doesn't allow me to see or communicate
with my kids, accuses me of everything in the book in court (accuses me of taking drugs, drinking, child neglect,
physical abuse of the kids, flight risk). I spend lots of time and money proving each of her accusations false, gain
50% custody, get to see my kids. She was stay at home for 5 out of the 7 years we were married. She lost all
her business and I was supporting her at the time of separation.
So during the divorce, she purposefully does not look for work and claims she's destitute in order to get
max support from me. AND SHE GETS IT!!!
When I give her the support checks, she looks down on me. She acts like she's entitled to my hard-earned money.
After all the shit she's put me through, I don't deserve this. She lives in a $1.2M house that she signed over
to her parents before the marriage. She drives a $100K BMW X5 that is leased and her parents pay for.
Oh, and she wants me to foot the bill for that lease in court.
6 months into the divorce, she brings up reconciliation. I refuse. So now, divorce hearings move further off into
the future (because if one party talks of reconciliation it draws out the divorce)
I'm fucked, paying the bipolar / BPD ex 50% of my income. I need to get this divorce over with.
I need the court to step in and give her a timeline on the Gavron warning.
I'm living hand to mouth but I do get to see my kids.
This is all very painful for me to describe, but I've been left very damaged by this whole ordeal.
I can't really fully trust another woman again.
I will not marry or have kids again.
I will survive this.
I'm currently on my own, in an apartment close to my ex's house and her parents' house.
This is because I need to be close to my kids' school.
I've read what you've written about your wife and I would advise you to prepare.
Your wife may be having a manic episode.
She may also be splitting on you (a symptom of BPD)
It's hard to tell.
Prepare to lose your house. BPDs are horrible in divorces.
Prepare for her to go to a lawyer and start a distortion campaign against you.
Prepare for her to set up a fake domestic violence incident and paint you as the perpetrator.
Think self-harm followed by her blaming you after the police show up. (yeah, like in Fight Club)
Prepare for the worst buddy.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
Know that you'll be OK in the long run.
Hold on to your job and your sanity through all of this.
Get these two books and read them, they'll give you a lot of valuable information for what awaits you:
Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder
Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Not OP, but Stop Walking on Eggshells is the classic book. Highly recommended.
http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
If you have a library around, I'd recommend seeing if you can get a hold of Stop Walking on Eggshells, or Toxic Parents, or the like; it sounds like your mother has borderline personality disorder, and sometimes just knowing that can help in your battle.
Aside from that, can you go to your guidance counselor or someone at your school to talk with? They will be the ones who can tell you what your options are for school & college.
Edit: after reading more of your comments, sounds like your sister might need the books more than yourself; you sound very at-terms with the situation. I hope you find the opportunities that afford you an escape, and I wish you the best dealing with it all.
yah, really it sounds like borderline personality disorder. It's different from bi-polar personality disorder. The sooner you understand the disease the sooner you'll be able to help yourself, children, and eventually your wife - if you wish to.
My mom has it, ruined my childhood, turned my dad into a man you don't want to become.
A great introductory guide is Stop Walking on Eggshells I really hope you'll find the time to look it up a bit.
edit: If you can get into couples therapy from an MFT, they'll recognize this condition in about 0.1 seconds. Her diagnosis with a psychological disorder will help you retain custody in a divorce,
Have Patrick talk to a Psychologist about Borderline Personality Disorder.What she is doing is called "campaigning" where she increasingly tries to isolate her husband so his life becomes all about her. This has all the signs and its not going to get better. Its already affecting Patrick's health.This is a super book on the subject, written so anyone can understand it.Repeat. Patrick needs to find a good Psychologist.You should have Patrick do it, not you.https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
Hey OP, I dated a girl like this once. I can think I can tell you a couple really important things.
Firstly, it's highly likely that your gf has un-diagnosed BPD (borderline personality disorder) as mine did. This is a seriously misunderstood and really unfortunate mental illness that afflicts people who may have suffered trauma in early childhood.
Secondly, it is your choice to stay with her, but if you do, you need to understand that you will be the most important thing in her life and therefore the one person she will project most of her issues onto. BPD is a SERIOUS mental illness that you should read about so you can understand how reality is to her.
Some subreddits are /r/BPDlovedones and /r/BPD
There is a great book called Stop Walking on Eggshells which will TOTALLY change the way you see people with BPD and other mental illness. The book isn't for her benefit, it's for yours. Before you talk with her again I would at LEAST recommend doing a quick google search on BPD and see if it seems like your situation at all.
Feel free to PM me if you have and questions that I may be able to answer.
For anyone who is in a relationship (family, personal, etc) with someone with Borderline Personality Disorder I suggest the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder" https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901
That's quite the bait and switch from "I have depression".
This is a tough diagnosis. My sister has BPD. You really want to think about any long term commitments here. Sorry for the Tough Love but real life is not a Hallmark Movie.
Armchair diagnostician here, sounds like your mom has Borderline Personality Disorder. Try this book.
Does she have borderline personality? Look it up on amazon; get some books, they will help.
Its a bad diagnosis. My sister has it.
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