There's actually a book called "Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life" that I read a few months ago. A leading expert on human sexuality looks at sexual fantasy based on the most comprehensive, scientific survey ever undertaken. There is a LOT of data and he writes about tons of trends, like who's inclined to be into BDSM, how age/religion/political views correlate with specific fetishes and fantasies, etc.
I personally thought the book was pretty pedantic and a little repetitive, but the underlying data discussed in the book was interesting, and I feel like a lot of people in this sub might really enjoy it based on the questions I've seen here.
Your post made me think of this book because he does mention the fantasies exhibited most often by Democrats, Republicans, and other demographics, and while he can't DEFINITIVELY explain the connections, he does speculate about some potential reasons from a science-based standpoint. Pretty interesting.
This book did a study about sexual fantasies and found that 79% of men and 62% of women fantasized about sex with multiple partners. Obviously fantasizing is much different than actually doing, but it would seem the fantasy is quite common.
Yeah, there is some good research on this. Tell Me What You Want is a book on research on sexual fantasies. They interviewed 5000 people and categorized their fantasies. I think there are 7 categories. That's it. All fantasies fall into these categories. And everyone has fantasies. LOL. It's way more common than you'd think. For example, something like 55% of men fantasize about cuckolding (their partner having sex with someone else). But like a tiny percentage of the people who have those fantasies act on them. Same things goes with threesomes (but a higher percentage follow through).
Bottom line, I think you're part of that minority that want to act on your fantasy. Your wife sounds like someone who is quite satisfied to leave the fantasy as just that.
Also, FWIW, fantasy and reality are VERY different.
Good luck! 🍀
Sorta true. There is some interesting research on sexual fantasies and it turns out there are seven basic categories. Something that jumped out to me from this book is how common fantasies are and how remarkably similar. Humans are very predictable as a group. Obviously each individual is unit.
It's actually incredibly common for people to have sexual fantasies for things that contradict their own morals. There's actual research about it.* Thinking those thoughts, and even being aroused by them doesn't make you a bad person. It's just a quirk of how the human mind works and not something you should feel bad about.
I'm guessing these thoughts have some element of violence. You probably could let those thoughts just be thoughts, even learn to enjoy them without feeling shame. You might also want to consider learning about BDSM, plenty of people who have those kinds of fantasies incorporate them into sexual play in a way that is safe and consensual and where aftercare is massively important. The scene might not be for you but understanding it could help you put those thoughts in context.
* If you're interested in learning about this then Tell Me What You Want by Justin Lehmiller is an interesting read.
Sounds like you're on the right path (communication and therapy).
One thing that might help is to know that cuckolding is a super common kink. Research shows that nearly 60% of men have cuckolding fantasies (a bit less for women). Now less than that will talk about, role play, or experiment with, but *most* men have had this fantasy.
Lastly, try not to conflate the kink with the obsession / addiction. Plenty of people experience obsession / addiction to vanilla porn (or some other kink).
Good luck! 🍀
Some research has been published on this and it turns out 58% of men have had this fantasy at least once and 25% frequently fantasize about this. Obviously a lot less experiment IRL but as a fantasy it is super common.
Something I enjoyed was reading this book Tell Me What You Want. Some university types conducted research and interviewed something like 5000 people about their sexual fantasies. The book is a summary and analysis of those data.
The thing that helped me think about it is how remarkably common sexual fantasies are. So, for example, 58% of men had a cuckolding fantasy at least once, 25% fantasized about it frequently. And cuckolding is considered a fringe / rare kink in the popular zeitgeist. But in a political election, 58% would be a landslide. I think seeing how common things are helps put them into perspective.
Good luck! 🍀
I like this book. It’s not about cuckolding, but does includes sections on it. The book is based on research on sexual fantasies. The author surveyed 4,000 people about their fantasies. Its by an academic, but approachable.
My favorite stat is that 58% of men (and 25% of women) have fantasized about cuckolding.
Tell Me What You Want is a fascinating book. It's written by a researcher who surveyed something like 5,000 people about sexual fantasies. Basically all fantasies fall into something like 7 categories. When I read the book and saw that 100% of my fantasies where described in some form or fashion I realized how common everything is. Oddly that helped me enjoy my fantasies more.
The fantasy versus reality gap is also something they talk about in the book. Fantasies where other people are involved are especially tricky with this gap. In fantasies people are "NPC's" or non-player characters in video games. Or at least that's how I think of it. These NPCs do what you imagine in your fantasy but IRL people do people shit and it doesn't match. They might do the act but they feel different than imagined.
Part of enjoying a fantasy IRL is letting go of the detail and learning to enjoy the outline of the experience.
I just responded to another post about this exact thing. I'll answer somewhat similar too. In Lehmiller's 'Tell Me What You Want' (https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-What-You-Want-ebook/dp/B0776PYDNM) his studies show this is incredibly common.
As for what to do with that kink, you can always express that and "play" with it even in a fantasy/roleplay sense. Never know, maybe she's got some secrets of her own she is itching to share with you :)
As outlined in "Tell Me What You Want" (https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-What-You-Want-ebook/dp/B0776PYDNM) this is a very common kink (way more common than most people realize), so start with that understanding but know in the end it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks - just what you and your husband enjoy.
You said that you did this before. Did you like it, being the center of attention for multiple men (side note: a woman having a threesome with two men is also a top female fantasy as noted in that book and thought of by over 80% of women at some point)? Are you turned on by the thought of being with that friend again? Do you like the idea of your husband watching or would you prefer him participating?
There are no wrong answers so long as everyone is openly candid on their motivations or desires. If this idea excites you, go for it. If you "kind of" like it but have your own stipulations (maybe you do like the "taking turns" aspect which again is very common) then state to your husband what you want to get out of it - even if that means that this is in no way an agreement on bringing a woman into your bed.
Life is too short not to own what you want and to have fun doing it!
If you're really curious about that, this book probably has the answer. It's based on research looking at 5,000 people and their fantasies. Frankly I was surprised that 79% of men and 62% of women had some form of fantasy around "multiple partners." So not just swinging, but other stuff (mostly threesomes I think). Now keep in mind these are category #1 fantasies. A small fraction of these people move them to category #3.
Bottom line, group play is a SUPER common fantasy.
First define the parameters of the term BDSM. Are you seeking to define it merely by sexual conduct? And if so, do fantasies or solo count?
Example: if one partner holds down the other's hands/arms in the middle of intercourse, is that an act of BDSM?
Or, is is this a broader question looking at relationship practices of consenual unequal power? If that's the case, you'll need to delineate cultural gender norms and expectations.
Second, as with all surveys, the population will be self selecting, so your ability to determine anything will be limited. Therefore, masking the purpose of the survey may be very necessary.
Third, you may need to ask the subject to answer questions regarding their own definitions. Example: please rate this statement from 1 (strongly disagree) to 5 (strongly agree.) "I have engaged in (or plan to engage in) a sexual practice that can be considered [you choose the term such as rough or BDSM or kinky]."
As to creating a broad enough range to include in behaviors, ask about power, physical restraints, physical force, language, and role play. Again, choosing terms carefully in order to foster participation to completion of the survey.
You might want to read "Tell Me What You What " by Justin Lehmiller https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0776PYDNM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_EhHwFbP8XEMMF
His sexual survey may help you with your questions, etc. He's been very open with his methodologies, design and thinking in general.
Good luck in your work.
I think the first helpful thing is to realize you're not alone! My story is very similar. I'm F27, grew up in a religious household where even showing your shoulders was not acceptable. I've had bdsm type fantasies since I was really young and always felt like there was something very wrong with me, I was a bad person, god hated me, etc. But honestly, I've always loved sex and think its super interesting too. I think the process of becoming sex positive is a long journey and for me anyway, there were a lot of different things that helped me out.
I think the first thing is being in a relationship with someone who understands the kind of home life you had (your parents fast forwarding movies and just the general feeling that everything sex-related was not acceptable). Its important for you to be really open with your partner and tell them everything about what's going on and the struggles you are having. Their reassurance can make all the difference in the world.
The second thing I'd suggest reading a lot of books. Being here on reddit is good, but books (or I guess documentaries, blogs, podcasts, etc. I'm sure you can find great recs on this site) about sex written by professionals who know what they're talking about are something else. Becoming really informed about sex-related things can help get rid of the some of the stigmas and shame that you might be holding onto from your childhood. Once you can make your brain understand that sex is a natural, wonderful thing, it looses a bit of the taboos attached to it. Even if you consciously already know that sex is okay and our bodies are literally programmed for it, some deep down part of your brain is probably still telling you that you should fast forward through kissing scenes.
Regarding research and specifically your bdsm kinks, I'd recommend checking out the blog sex and psychology or reading the guys book Tell Me What You Want. Like the blog title says, he talks a lot about the psychology around sex and kinks. Understanding your desires for bdsm type stuff can really help you let go of some of the associated shame. Its also nice to read about how common those sorts of kinks are.
It might also be a good idea to bring some of this stuff up with your boyfriend (maybe you have already?). Chances are he'd love to know what your fantasies are and what kind of extra special things he can do with/for you. It opens up a new level of trust in a relationship and you will be happier when you are getting what you want, even if you just do it one step at a time. Maybe just tell him you want to try handcuffs or something really basic and see how it goes. (If you're nervous to even bring it up, text him while he's at work or something so you don't have to see him react. This helps me). Chances are that once you start, it will snowball and you can try new things every time.
On top of all this, you could also try to maybe get out of your comfort zone. Go try on lingerie somewhere or visit a sex shop even if you just browse. Get your sex-positive girlfriends involved so you have a support group and you can be with other people who can remind you that everything is okay and that its okay to talk about, have fun with, and laugh about sex things.
Be patient with yourself. It takes time to unlearn things that you were taught in your home or just from our society in general. You'll get there! <3
In one of the most comprehensive studies on sexual fantasies, 58% of men had this fantasy making it one of the most common sexual fantasies.
Your in good company.
If you would like to learn More from an academic view this is an interesting excellent book. https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-What-You-Want-ebook/dp/B0776PYDNM/ref=nodl_ He also has a very good podcast and covers fetishes extensively.
I did not suggest that self selecting small population surveys produced high quality data.
It is however far superior to your or anyone's personal opinion offered without any attempt at data.
Perhaps you'd like to offer any data of any kind, other than anecdotal, to back up your claims?
I am willing to offer other similar surveys.
But all survey data is limited by the survey design and self selecting population.
You can at least start by offering up your definition of normal and fringe.
I suspect it is not shorthand for a statistical value but more likely a value judgement based on what you deem acceptable.
Is homosexuality normal or fringe in your definition?
How about anal sex?
We should, in my opinion, clarify the language so we are addressing the topic with a shared understanding of the words and their meaning.
You were adamant rimming is a fringe behavior.
I'm old enough to remember when oral sex (cunnilingus) was not only labeled a fringe behavior, it was illegal in many states. Turns out it was pretty normal. Same with female masturbation.
On a side note, I highly recommend two books that look at normal vs fringe.
Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0776PYDNM/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_QNDEQA5K0FSY01G84EF4
Perv: The Sexual Deviant in All of Us https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374230897/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_Y0KGFT4Q4T5Q4ES1H7MD
Do not confuse sexual attraction with romantic attraction. Bisexuality is merely experiencing sexual attraction to both genders. Many Bisexuals are more romantically attracted in a traditional cis het way.
As for being sexually deviant, that's probably not what the science tells us. The range of typical sexuality runs a pretty wide gambit that does NOT resemble Norman Rockwell ideals. If you're actually curious read this, Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0776PYDNM/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_DMHPNJ6MXS8FZFRN5D6E
Or this, Perv: The Sexual Deviant in All of Us https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374230897/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_HXQP51STYDS2JYT85RS7
You say you want to be straight, well I want to be to tall. Neither one of us is going to get what we want.
Fortunately neither is required to have a happy and fulfilled marriage or family.
We fall in love with who we fall in love with. If you fall in love with a man, will it be more complicated? Probably, the world has a ways to go still. If you fall in love with a woman it may be more complicated, but monogamy isn't always easy no matter who you're attracted to.
My best advice for you is to first educate yourself on bisexuality so you can be more comfortable in your own skin. Then decide how to go about being the kind of man who attracts the kind of life partner you want. The rest is really just a sifting process until we find the people who fit with us. From there you'll be able to find love and build a life together.
I wish you well on your journey to creating love.
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a) Me pointing out internalised transmisogyny goes far beyond this particular discussion. There is extensive history of cis people's authorities and expertise being given precedence over our expertise living our own lives right from the time Harry Benjamin came up with a description and diagnostic criteria used to deny and gatekeep transition.
This goes all the way from cis people fundamentally misunderstanding why we transition (for example - the idea we transition to live in a different gender role- we don't, I definitely didn't) to making us basically be circus monkeys or even go so far as to gatekeep transition to those cis doctors thought made for sexually attractive women to them.
Automatic attribution of bias to trans people and granting objectivity to cis authors is invariably going to reproduce the same transmisogynistic logic, across the board. This facade of objectivity also falls apart given the mutual reinforcement of narratives between practitioners in trans healthcare and patients as described in Sandy Stone's The Empire Strikes Back.
Of course, it isn't just transmisogyny here in this case - this obsession over AMAB femininity in straight people is a general manifestation of effemimania too, and any cross-dressing tendencies in straight boys and men were automatically pathologised as a paraphilia because of the history of Stoller, Green and Money fucking things up in sexology/psychiatry.
b) Now - as to your accusation about "what amounts to an opinion piece" ; the reason I linked Serano's Medium piece to you is it is a good starting point with links to a comprehensive collection of peer-reviewed literature.
It also distills the key messages from the peer-reviewed literature. It isn't meant to be a primary source, nor does it hold as much weight as peer-reviewed literature.
Given that much peer-reviewed literature is paywalled and locked-up unless you have institutional access, and most people do not have access, I thought it prudent to give people a starting point to find any peer-reviewed literature on the topic they might be able to find in their own time.
c) Peer-review still involves gatekeeping by cis reviewers before it is published in a mainstream journal. I peer-review stuff all the time in biology and the process generally weeds out obvious biases.
d) All of the original research Serano cites , either in the Medium piece, or in her own peer-reviewed publications ( the main points of the Medium piece are also articulated in a paper she wrote that passed peer review - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0038026120934690?journalCode=sora , paywalled, but there should be a copy on her website) are by cissexual authors from within the sexology / psychiatry field.
d) If by "autogynephilia as described" you mean Blanchard's criteria for scoring and diagnosing, yes you will find a fraction of trans women that meet the criteria (but also, as Moser showed, a cis academic since you get so hung up on it, and confirmed by Veale et al, in a controlled study , the same criteria also lead to the same (mis) diagnosis in a fraction of cis women).
There is also "autoandrophilia" in some transmasc people and some cis women (I actually know one that is turned on by imagining herself as a man, or presenting masculine, et cetera) as well as a much broader range of AMAB people that are not trans women that have transformation fetishes and are aroused by it.
Lehmiller did a comprehensive general population survey of it , and found this to be true of 33% of his cohort, ~ 11% of AFABs being turned on by imagining themselves as cis men, the rest being AMABs being turned on by imagining themselves as cis women.
See https://www.amazon.ca/Tell-Me-What-You-Want-ebook/dp/B0776PYDNM for the book
What is interesting about trans women that report experiencing being aroused by the thought of themselves as women, either in the lay use, or by meeting Blanchard's criteria basically end up with these fantasies dropping off significantly as medical transition proceeds , which further feeds into the notion this is tied to arousal via cross-sex embodiment fantasies.
e) It is very possible that there are AMABs with transformation fetishes about being female and vice versa, or they may even be on reddit, but neither the criticisms I have made, nor the clinical criteria (which appear to be quite nonspecific given the instrument) would be a refutation of anyone having any such fantasies.
All of Serano's criticisms are also targeted at the typology, the model, and the instrument(s). If you read Whipping Girl, she openly describes finding femininity arousing ; she has nothing to gain by using opinion pieces to obscure her own experiences she has been super open about.
f) I am disputing both Blanchard's typology (and the failure to consider bisexuality, which is really funny because Bailey had to revise and reanalyse his own data and admit that he denial of AMAB bisexuality was just flat out wrong) and the nonspecificity of his criteria and terrible instruments (again, Moser's evaluation of the instrument is key, and Veale et al's controlled study with both cis and trans women).
There is also the fact that in non-clinical populations , it is more androphilic trans women that report greater arousal to imagining themselves as women before transition.
This is a direct falsification of the original typology that proposed that androphiles transition to date straight men while gynephiles do it because they're aroused by it (which fails to note that dysphoria precedes any experience of these fantasies in trans women) , causality does not work back in time.
g) Finally - Will Powers actually does informed consent and has a case series of thousands of patients ; he reported one trans woman who wanted to transition because of sexual gratification. There is be a recorded talk on youtube he did where he brings this stat up ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fefu33e8O-0 ).
If you read the whole article, then did you stop when it talked about Ashley Madison? Did you read this book? https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-What-You-Want-ebook/dp/B0776PYDNM/ref=nodl_ that’s also mentioned in the article?
According to this book, it turns out that 79% of men and 62% of women fantasize about sex with multiple partners.
Found the text from the article for ya:
>My co-author, Justin Lehmiller, recently published his new book, Tell Me What You Want, examining the sexual fantasies of 4000 people. The entire book is a fascinating read, but interestingly, Justin found that Republicans fantasized much more about infidelity, cuckolding, and men with very large genitals, compared to Democrats, who were more likely to fantasize about bondage and discipline behaviors or romantic intimacy (this last might be because of gender differences, with more females affiliated with left politics, and these types of fantasies more common in females.).
>
>This certainly isn't new. In the early 1990’s, Florida politics rocked with a titillating sex scandal: a deputy sheriff was arranging for men to have sex with his wife for money, while the deputy secretly recorded the encounters. At trial, the wife, Kathy Willetts, claimed that nymphomania had been the cause of the couples’ behavior. The scandal got even deeper when it was revealed that many of Willetts' sex partners had been prominent Republican politicians. Trump advisor Roger Stone has acknowledged participating in swinging and describes himself as a "libertine."
Not really surprising, given the amount that many of you guys talk about that stuff.
See if she will do the mojoupgrade.com survey with you! Also check out the book “tell me what you want” https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-What-You-Want-ebook/dp/B0776PYDNM/ref=nodl_