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The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism?
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There are multiple meme professions that have no coherent purpose.
Hand-writing analysis, for example.
Body language bullshit primarily finds purchase in the world of high powered CEOs obsessed with charisima training.
https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947
Please find a good therapist to work on these issues. If money is an issue, look for "pro bono" or "sliding scale" or just ask if they have a sliding scale. You can also find some online only therapists as well.
In the meantime, you can read an old version of "How to win friends an influence people" How to Win Friends and Influence People images.kw.com/docs/2/1/2/212345/1285134779158_htwfaip.pdf or you can find the new version that addresses social media on Amazon.
or this https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947
there are tons and tons of books to help you with relationships and talking to people. it just takes practice. you can do this.
You should be fine looks wise.
Just learn to have general social skills with people first. This book helped me. The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism https://www.amazon.com/dp/1591845947/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_3J9FB370AQDB0169MVA8
Once you get good conversations going with people then you can use other resources to start learning how to flirt with women and build attraction.
Cool comment! I will work on my social skills. Currently I read this book: Amazon link, so I cannot wait to apply the stuff in real life (after group meetings will be possible).
By your own description, you don't sound engaged in these conversations.
Try active listening and asking questions. You don't have to know anything but how to ask a question to keep a conversation going.
I give this advice all the time in this sub, but check out the book The Charisma Myth too. I took notes on the book, here's the beginning... (the numbers are wrong because of reddit's markup, but just go with it)
THE CHARISMA MYTH
Introduction
The equation that produces charisma is actually fairly simple. All you have to do is give the impression that you possess both high power and high warmth, since charismatic behaviors project a combination of these two qualities. “Fight or flight?” is the power question. “Friend or foe” is the warmth question.
A final dimension underlies both of these qualities: presence.
Charisma Demystified
To be charismatic doesn’t require that one be naturally outgoing, physically attractive, or need to change their personality.
Possible to be a charismatic introvert.
Three quick tips to gain an instant charisma boost in conversation:
- Lower the intonation of your voice and the end of your sentences.
- Reduce how quickly and how often you nod.
- Pause for two full seconds before you speak.
You don't have to touch anyone. It can be your tone of voice, a look in your eye etc. Read the charisma myth or get the audio book and practice flirting with/charming everyone. https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947
Probably more social skills than looks. There's definitely women who looooooove the nerdy-but-handsome look, which you have. I'd recommend brushing up on your flirting and social skills. There are a lot of youtube tutorials and books out there on how to do that. One that I read and liked was The Charisma Myth.
And, if you do online dating, it tends to be more difficult for men so that's not necessarily abnormal.
The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism by Olivia Fox Cabane
I tell all my analysts to read this and practice the exercises. It's great for learning to speak well in front of others.
Sounds like all you need is some charisma! Lucky for you, charisma is a skill that you can learn!
I'm reading this book, and it's helped me tremendously.
There is no quick fix for your struggles, but with a little reading and some practice, you'll be good to go!
Oh boy I relate to this so hard. I'm an attorney and I can't tell you how many times I've been told to work on "my tone" for being to abrasive/aggressive. Yes, even in the courtroom, in an adversarial setting, and people still want to be "spoken nicely too." I don't yell, name-call, act rude or anything like that, yet I still got this criticism. There was always something that I just couldn't put my finger on. There is this "other" form of communication that others just naturally have, and others (like us) who must work on it. Took me years to get a handle on this and I hope what I can share with you will help. The examples you provided sound like they're coming from sensitive individuals, but nonetheless, I take it there's something you want to learn for interactions beyond those examples:
(1) Whether it's intentional or not, just always remember that you have noticed this pattern in perceptions of you. Do not take it personally. It's not about YOU as a person, just a PERCEPTION. The way that people perceive you generally will not change, so what you can do is change the way you see the problem. You can be well-meaning yet come off a certain way that you want to MANAGE. Don't hold yourself to this high standard to "change" who you are or your personality. You're not going to magically turn into some bubbly charismatic person who everyone will just be drawn (no, fuck that, be the person you are but learn strategies to enhance the perception others). Keep your expectations of yourself realistic; at this point you just want to avoid and reduce negative interactions, not achieve knock-them-off-their-feet charisma.
(2) You didn't indicate whether you are male, female, non-binary. Based on your voice memo, I'm assuming you are a female. Please don't hate me if I'm wrong. If you are a female, like me, it is a hard fact that there are higher standards unfairly applied to females. Both is what women say and how women say it. Society at large already disfavors women who have something direct and non-passive to say. That is why so many female leaders must be Oscar winning artists to manipulate how they say things. Again, unfair but it's just the nature of the world we live in. I hope we see better days. I could add more to this if you like, but again, this is just a matter of accepting that the nature of others will not change. Do not change your nature, just utilize strategies.
(3) The way people react is purely emotional to non-verbal cues. The tone of your voice. The speed. The inflection. The underlying emotional charge of the words you use. There's ways to "soften" your voice that others will respond more positively too. I highly recommend The Charisma Myth. The hard truth is that people are more likely to pay attention to HOW you say something rather than WHAT you say.
(4) Above and beyond kindness. If you have inherent characteristics (voice, face, etc) that is hard to manipulate (we gotta be real here, this is tough shit to overcome), you can use politeness to compensate for it. Lots of warm greetings, friendly questions, please, thank you's, I appreciates. ANYTHING. Again, someone may get a negative reaction to the non-verbal communications, but if your words are polite AF, it's difficult to accuse you of being rude. The only caveat here is that it must come from a genuine place. Tie this in with #3 about using polite/kind words as authentically as possible.
(5) A word on honesty. Much like you, I value honesty above all else. I totally get you there. I rather someone be honest and rude than kind and shifty. All of these skills will be a lot easier to harness once you accept the fact that you are in the minority here. The vast majority of people in this world want someone to speak to their "inner child" and in the nicest way possible. Most of the time, people are not ready for the truth. Have you ever heard of the acronym THINK when it comes to filtering comments. Any communication that comes from your mouth must be either: TRUE, HELPFUL, INSIGHTFUL, NECESSARY, or KIND? This can be misleading for people like us who value truthfulness. Generally speaking, the truth is a valuable thing to say; however, you must determine in your judgment is this person READY to hear the truth? Most of the time, no. That is always why before offering the truth, I ask someone "what is your opinion" on the matter. If they don't have an opinion, then I gently ask someone, "may I share my opinion?" Not only are you getting permission, you are bracing the person for something they may not be ready to hear.
Anyway my friend, I really relate to your struggle. I hope these lessons I've learned over the years helps you in some way.
Check out 'The Charisma Myth' by Olivia Fox Cabane. It showed me that charisma is a trainable skill rather than something innate. You can buy a physical copy on Amazon or download it here from bookzz. The bookzz version is only available in epub format.
I’m sure others could answer in more detail, but there’s a book that taught me a lot called The Charisma Myth
You may want to post on a non traditional singles site. I don't know much about that scene, but even "fetlife", maybe?
With your condition, are you able to use anabolic steroids? I ask only because it's a great way combined with weightlifting to put on muscle, though you need to cycle it (on 6 weeks, off 6 weeks) and take a liver cleaner and an anti-estrogen as well.
The other thing to upgrade is your wardrobe. You want to look mature, not like a child. There are fashion consultants, I suggest you hire one.
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You also need to make a serious investment in building your charisma. I suggest Charisma On Command. Not cheap, but paid off for me. (PM me for questions if you want.) Another source to help you out is The Charisma Myth.
It is possible that my polarizing effect comes from envy. I've never looked too deeply into it. I find the greatest criticisms I receive are for thinking too much about things that are supposed to come "naturally". My social interactions are complex and fine tuned for optimal results and as far from natural as you could get, but even the slight flaws in my performance seem to create intrigue and I have people who become obsessed with trying to understand my view of the world.
Captivate by Vanessa Van Edwards is similar to Tanner's work in that it is written by a researcher in the field of human interactions and has a few surprising insights. Edwards doesn't have Tanner's depth but possibly outdoes her in application. The Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane is another hard science approach to social interactions with a focus on practical life application. Art of Seduction by Robert Greene follows the author's pattern of viewing a social issue through the lens of the historian rather than a scientist and develops theories based on the practices of social masters across different times and cultures to draw universal principles. Algorithms to Live by Brian Christian and Tom Griffiths approaches general big life questions from the perspective of a programmer and mathematician. I would also partially recommend Flipnosis by Kevin Dutton it doesn't get a full recommendation because it is a comparative approach and doesn't really spell out the practical applications of the findings so much as giving examples of con artists and the scientific theories that explain why their techniques are effective. It requires a bit of creativity to apply to your daily life.
https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947
this book begs to differ. it's actually pretty good
The Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane
The Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane is one of the best $10 I have ever spent on my photography career.
I had the same exact upbringing and issue with detachment or looking down on someone at the first, subtlest sign of rejection. It is hard but the only way to overcome it is to be more open with your emotions and to truly learn to appreciate someone's talents and abilities and positive sides no matter what your initial perception of them and reformulate (not necessarily completely change or hide) your preconceptions about socializing/how to behave around others. I think a lot of INTJs subconsciously look down on emotional/less "rational" ways/less "intellectual" ways of expressing yourself/behaviors (I had this issue).
As part of my subconscious tendency to detach myself to protect myself from emotional pain/rejection, I found out that my demeanor and facial expressions seemed very negative and arrogant to many people, even the family members I was closest to.
I worked on my social skills and non verbal behaviors, learned to look more at ease and less guarded and suspicious around others, and talking more expressively. I would practice smiling daily and videotaped myself taking for a long time (I would fall into what my default expressions and body language as time would go on aka what others talking to me would see). It was crazy for me to realize that if I smiled at someone first, they would smile back and be more friendly and kinder with me.
It sounds dumb but I remember being so bewildered so many times why someone would look so happy and cheerful while talking with someone else but then suddenly stop smiling and look awkward and SO distant with me as they would converse with me - it was because my expression looked dour or irritated (severe case of resting bitch face).
As a result of being perceived as being more open, kinder, more attentive, and caring by others, I finally found the kindness/acceptance/inclusion (it is kinda embarrassing to admit) and social connection I was craving all my life. People do not feel like I am judging them or looking down on them or that their company is unwanted/they are inconveniencing me and so they want to actually be around me.
Humans have been scientifically proven to pick up on and correctly identify facial expressions that last only a few MILLIseconds on others so you would be surprised how perceptive other people who are used to being around people normally are.
Faking your expressions for long periods of time is very hard to do and so I had to dig into my mental and emotional processes and even wound up going to therapy to deal my repressed trauma (my usual reaction to any emotion that is distracting is to ignore it or repress it until I cannot do so any longer. still working on this.) My relationships are surprisingly a lot more deeper now even though many of them started off with shallow, small talk type interactions I used to ABHOR and avoid. I am at the point where I can have deep conversations with anyone - even people I would have once avoided like the plague.
A good place to just get started on this long journey - I would recommend the book The Charisma Myth. IMO, this book addresses root causes of why you come off a certain way to others and goes much further beyond being "charismatic" and really explains the psychology/science behind emotional states and socializing/connecting with others.
It is just a first, superficial step and will not fix all your problems but it did help me become a lot more aware of how I was expressing myself to the world around me and thus take further action to address my many issues. Good luck!
The Charisma Myth has some good exercises that are not specific to public speaking, but are applicable.
I thought it was a great book overall.
i'm currently reading The Charisma Myth to help with my lack of confidence and I recommend it
Visualization exercises. A really good book on this is The Charisma Myth.
A couple ways to address this come to mind:
I. If you don't have a stable baseline when it comes to social interactions due to your anxiety, I'm not sure how much networking tips and tricks can help because you need to have a relatively stable confidence foundation. You can find awesome self help/improvement books, blogs, etc virtually everywhere on the web.
Curious, do you see a counselor? I'm wondering because things like depression and anxiety are best treated with counseling AND medicine combined, not one or the other alone. I'm not a doctor and I don't intend to pretend to be, but I know benzos are not a long term solution.
II. Now, if you're wondering about tips to improve your networking game given good baseline, I'd recommend a few things:
<em>The Charisma Myth</em> by Olivia Fox Cabane -- Awesome, awesome book. Contrary to what people may believe, charisma is a skill that can be learned by anyone. She's got some great exercises throughout the book to work on having a positive, charismatic mindset.
Social Skills by Ramit Sethi -- You have to pay for the course, but this guy gives a lot of valuable content for free. The link is one of his videos.
Like someone else mentioned, I also recommend Tim Ferriss's awesome SXSX talk on networking that you can hear on his podcast. Again, the user below has the links for the podcast and google doc notes someone made, but I do recommend listening to the podcast as the notes don't do it justice.
I would check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Charisma-Myth-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947
Breaks it down pretty completely.
If you are confident, you will definitely be more charismatic.
Hahaha. If you're interested, I pulled the advice out of The Charisma Myth.
If you think that you'd like to be the life of the party maybe you aren't completely introverted. You could be what's known as an ambivert.
You can be the life of the party and still be introverted. Introversion isn't socially anxiety or shyness. If you are one of those, you need to work on those issues.
Maybe you need some charisma. I'm reading this book, and it has helped tremendously. Check it out.
Not OP but I know exactly how you feel. I found the book "The Chrisma Mtyh" to be extraordinarily helpful.
Lots of comments talking about how you need to work on conversation skills. While that might be the right course of action, I don't think it is. I think the problem is much deeper.
>have my shit together
Do you often find yourself using the word 'should'? For example: "I 'should' be able to have successful dates." If so, all this does is magnify the issue. You don't completely have your shit together yet, and that is absolutely OKAY. Take a deep breath. Repeat after me: Fuck 'should.' Make that a meditation mantra if you like.
>I've read books, I've been mediating, I'm trying to love myself and be comfortable with myself. I've been on a dozen dates this summer. I'm not getting any better. If anything, one soul-crushing experience after another is just making me worse.
Okay, you're trying really hard, and it IS making it worse. Which means you haven't found the right solution yet. Keep meditating, but go easy on the books. Instead of trying to 'love yourself' or be 'comfortable with yourself', go for HAPPY. I say this because 1) love/be comfy with yourself is just a rehash of 'be yourself', which is the king of bullshit advice, and 2) when you don't know how to love/be comfortable with yourself, trying to do so feels awkward and uncomfortable. Which pushes you away from it. So, go for happy. From there, it is a short jump to being comfortable/loving yourself.
>I just want to[...] have conversation flow like I'm talking to my best friend.
Might that be an unreasonable expectation? Or maybe an inappropriate one? You're not looking for a friend here, you're looking for a lover. A perfectly friendly conversation that flows well might not generate attraction. A conversation that generates a mixture of emotions is likely to fare much better on that front.
That being said, one reason conversations with close friends flow so well is that one does not have their guard up in that context; we are free to be vulnerable with those we trust. Perhaps you're terrified of vulnerability with women; it would certainly lead to some of the issues you're experiencing. If you haven't read it yet, check out Mark Manson's 'Models'. It talks about this far better than I can.
Final thought here: I think your most recent date could have been saved by a bit of vulnerability... If you had said that you were "excited to meet her too, and frankly, a bit nervous," she likely would have been a bit more forgiving and willing to work at conversation. Maybe she wouldn't have, but in that case, she can fuck off.
>Dates always end up being a little bit of pleasant conversation, then a series of awkward pauses, talking over one another, mumbled questions, glancing around awkwardly, desperately trying to find something to talk about, etc. At the first sign that my date is uncomfortable, my confidence gets crushed, I start getting all these negative thoughts, and just completely lose it.
Okay. It seems to me that one of the fundamental issues here is how you talk to yourself (in your head) during your date. In the psychological literature, this is called 'self-talk'. You go on a date, everything starts off well enough, and then you hit your first awkward pause and your internal dialogue starts calling you a stupid motherfucker. Sound familiar?
If so, this type of internal dialogue is likely something you do ALL THE TIME. Not just when you're out on a date. When you're just hanging out by yourself or with friends, there is no risk, so no adrenaline and negative self-talk doesn't have any bad consequences. But when you combine risk/adrenaline and negative self-talk, like on a date, the results can be disastrous. My recommendation would be to notice and fix your negative self-talk outside of dating FIRST. It will be a new thing for you, and this is a habit that requires a lot of diligence to break. But if you do, you'll be better off in general, and it will likely solve this issue.
A few final thoughts.
Does this statement (bold mine)...
>I'm 33, tall, fairly attractive, have my shit together, good job, good head on my shoulders, down to earth, dress well.
Match with this one?
>I'm not a terribly interesting or charismatic guy, and pretty introverted.
Obviously, they don't match. Frankly, being tall, having a good job, having decent judgment, being down to earth, and dressing well have fuck all to do with attracting women. Short dudes, unemployed dudes, stupid dudes, Kanye West, and rednecks in camo all can get laid. You have estimated your value at a high level based upon these passive characteristics, and at first, the women you are meeting do too: that's why they're so fucking excited to meet you. But your active value is actually pretty low, which makes the ladies run away. I don't say this to attack or demean, I just think you need a bit of a reality check, and to reset your expectations. Go a bit easier on yourself.
Alright. How could you become more interesting? More charismatic? More extroverted? (That last one is a hard one, but it can be done.) Perhaps do more interesting things. Having a good job doesn't mean shit if your life is a snore. Perhaps read this book, as it examines how to be more charismatic.
Give yourself a little break, and keep at it. You'll get there.
So this book is meant for something else, but one side effect is that you'll practice methods for self compassion, self esteem, and self confidence.
Yeah, that's exactly why. 99 times out of a 100, "male privilege" is actually "real man" privilege. Women are always judged by what they are, and men are always judged by what they do. The good news is that there's more than one way to be a "real man". You don't have to be Achilles, you can be Odysseus. You can figure out this shit in your own way, whatever that is.
Here, check this out: http://www.amazon.com/The-Charisma-Myth-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947
Moreover, I'd recommend this guy: http://www.amazon.com/Hagakure-Book-Samurai-Yamamoto-Tsunetomo/dp/1590309855/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398957418&sr=1-1&keywords=hagakure+the+book+of+the+samurai+by+yamamoto+tsunetomo
Because if you're trying to work that quiet guy thing over into a "strong silent type" thing, honestly, samurai is a good way to go.
> I'd probably weigh that advice more than "random internet comments" considering that this subreddit is used for job search advice and help
True, very true.
> You come off as brash, cocky, entitled, and overall, not very humble.
See...I still, I don't know. I really, truly am not those things to the extent that I come across here. Hell, I've had a bunch of people praise me for being humble in real life (which is a bit ironic). So...I don't know.
> I don't know if it's a good idea for you, but what helped me reduce my cockiness was reading Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people". You may think that this book would make you even more cocky by title alone, but after I read it the first time, I learned which of my actions came off as cocky, annoying, and off-putting. I applied what I learned and became a much better person than I was before. The book focuses not on the "How" so much as the "Why". That's also what you should focus on so that you can change yourself- "Why did these events unfold as they did and How can I become more like that?" The book is very applicable to your interest in the business world, so please take the time to read it.
I've been meaning to read that book for awhile, so it's nice to see a recommendation for it here.
I also recently bought a book titled The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism, which hopefully will help me as well.
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