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The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel (The Biblical Resource Series)?
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The ancient Semitic pantheon (which included 70 sons of El, including Baal) was widely believed in across the region. What made Judaism unique was its eventual push toward monotheism, although traces of the old pantheon are still in the Hebrew Bible.
Mark Smith has put out some good scholarship on the topic:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
Asherah was originally a wife of the father God El, although later Yahweh was brought in (possibly from contact with Edom) and El and Yahweh were eventually merged.
This interesting convergence tends to be brought up in apologetic literature but I haven't seen it from church leaders. The Deuteronomic Reforms removed "pagan" altars and gods from Hebrew worship, including the worship of Asherah. Is it the LDS position that those reforms were correct? Incorrect? Somewhere in between? There isn't an official position as far as I know, but if Asherah is to be associated with Heavenly Mother it might be necessary to take one.
It's an interesting area of LDS theology that hasn't really been explored much.
The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities of Ancient Israel by Mark S. Smith is a fantastic book with (too many?) references that really paints the picture of Judeo-Christian God as just another iron age mythology, no different than any other.
Edit: link
This is a fascinating book to read: The Early History of God: : Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark S. Smith. Excellent scholarly work showing YHWH's pre-Jewish roots as a Canaanite deity.
In it we also learn how little we know about the role of Asherah. While there is a snippet of info about Asherah as YHWH's consort, and we know that something called an Asherah Pole existed, there is almost no knowledge of her role in the ancient Israelite religion. She doesn't appear to have been worshipped, and I don't believe we know much about what she represented.
Worth a read - I recommend it for all.
Thanks, I'm glad I'm not in that mess any longer, either.
You might also find this book interesting:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
I use the Amazon links because you usually get a free preview on those links.
It's a bad historical explanation, though.
The Christian and Jewish gloss is that they were always monotheistic, but strayed.
The historical reality is that they were polytheistic, and only gradually moved towards monolatry and eventually monotheism.
This book covers a lot of what scholars believe the history is: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
> Deuteronomy 16:21 just came up in my reading. Awesome.
I love it! I love seeing the connections and getting a peek behind the curtain to get a sense of what things would have meant to the original audience!
Another on-topic book that is on my wishlist is The Early History of God by Mark Smith.
For getting your feet wet in OT scholarship, the go-to references are Friedman's "Who Wrote the Bible?" (did I see someone else recommend that one?) and Kugel's "How To Read the Bible: A Guide to Scripture Then and Now". Those are the only general topic books that come to mind. Scrolling through my Amazon order history, everything else seems pretty specific . . . and random. Let me know if there is a specific area you are interested in
I cannot stress enough how fantastic the Yale lectures I linked to before are. If you can sit through those 24 lectures, you will have all the background you need to explore whatever area catches your eye.
As an aside, since you say you are in an exploration phase with your faith. I would double recommend James Kugel's book above. In the epilogue he comments that he is often asked how he is able to remain a devout Orthodox Jew knowing what he knows about biblical history. He says he reads the bible as the record of an ancient people trying to understand their god and to make sense of their place in the world, and to him it doesn't matter if the stories are true because he understands they are a product of their culture. (I'm tired, does that sound preachy?)
I recommend you pick up a copy of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
It goes through vast amounts of historical evidence, as well as textual analysis of the Bible and other works, to show that the early history of Israelite religion is polytheism.
This is the consensus view of historians.
The Israelites were Canaanites, and it makes sense that they would have Canaanite religious views.
No. Because all I said was there were Jews that worshipped the Queen in Heaven. Reread what I wrote. What’s after that is irrelevant.
If you want more information from the leading scholar on this subject
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
A great read.
I’m not mistaken. El Elyon is a separate being to Yahweh. Scholars pretty much universally agree on this.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
A great book to check out. Yahweh is as synchronized with El and Baal at some point. But before that they were different gods.
This is what the scholarship shows on the context of the versus I’ve given you. Not trying to be rude saying this, but it doesn’t really matter how you interpret it because you know nothing about ancient Judaism. Its like those moms on Facebook who think they know something about science because they saw Facebook post.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
A great book to introduce you to ancient Judaism.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
He is the leading scholar and this book is a great book to get started on this.
Deuteronomy 32:8-9
8 When the Most High[a] apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods;[b](A) 9 the Lord’s own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.
Psalm 82
A Plea for Justice A Psalm of Asaph.
1 God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:(A) 2 “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah(B) 3 Give justice to the weak and the orphan; maintain the right of the lowly and the destitute.(C) 4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”(D) 5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding; they walk around in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.(E) 6 I say, “You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you;(F) 7 nevertheless, you shall die like mortals and fall like any prince.”[a](G) 8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations belong to you!(H)
Originally, Yahweh was the son of El Elyon, as described in Deuteronomy 32:8-9. The Jews were originally henotheistic, meaning they worshipped Yahweh while also acknowledging the existence of other gods such as Chemosh, who is acknowledged in verses like Judges 11:24, or in 2 Kings 3:27 when he actually defeated Yahweh in battle. At least some of the Jews believed in Yahweh’s wife, the goddess Asherah, whose worship by some Jews was mentioned through references to the “queen of heaven” in the book of Jeremiah, and whose worship is also indicated by the drawings and inscriptions on the famous pottery discovered at Kuntillet Ajrud.
It was only later that Jewish prophets began to affirm that there existed no god besides Yahweh. Asherah was originally the wife of El Elyon, the Most High, but he was ultimately syncretized with Yahweh, who himself ultimately became considered God Most High, and Asherah became Yahweh’s consort in the mind of some Jews. Although later the Jews who worshipped and acknowledged Asherah were usurped by those who viewed Yahweh as being alone in Godhood.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
The leading scholar to read about this
What you have read is true.
Here's a great book on the topic. Some foreign language material in it that's hard to follow if you don't know the language, but not enough to make it anywhere near impossible to know what the evidence is.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
>you say "we find surprising things" and then state a well known fact and cornerstone message of the Bible.
The surprising part is that this was considered orthodoxy. The idea of monotheism did not exist yet. YHWH arose as a tribal god of war, one of the sons of El, a brother of sorts to Chemosh, Ba'al Hadad, etcetera.
>The Bible is very clear, one of the judgements of God on Israel is that they worship false gods.
>Israel is so often compared to an unfaithful spouse. That doesn't mean they embraced pantheism it means they stopped worshipping the true and living God.
Yes. This is the judgement of those pushing away from YHWH's origins towards monolatrism, pushing against the historical views and theology. They were trying to change the ancient Israelite religion, and effectively created Judaism after the Exile when Ezra came into power.
This is a very good book on the matter. It delves into more Hebrew than I'm familiar with, but not so much that you can't follow the arguments. It's considered a staple on the subject. https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
No there's not. I never understood why people think the fact that two words are homophones in a language that didn't exist at the time is any kind of evidence for anything to do with early Christianity.
​
Mark S. Smith has a good book on the beginnings of Israelite religion
>On what basis do you make this claim?
Numerous studies cited by Mark S Smith in he Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel on the first page.
> How is an all-powerful immaterial God a Canaanite "war" God?
Well, he didn't start as "All-powerful and immaterial God". He was part of the Canaanite pantheon.
You should give this a read, sounds like it has a lot of good info for you: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
Sorry I don't have any sources, but there is no evidence of a mass migration from Egypt to Israel. There is however evidence of migration from Canaan to Israel. They found a bunch of pottery shards between the two areas. There are also a lot of similarities in culture and language between the Canaanites and what became the Israelites. It's in Early History of God.
Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that this is the Exodus out of Egypt, only that if there was a migration, there would be lots of trails of evidence from one place to the other.
So, you're going to get theologically motivated answers here. If you want to learn about the history of YHWH, you should check out /r/AcademicBiblical instead.
This is also a very good book to read on the topic: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
The evidence points to YHWH as being a distinct god from El. He was originally worshipped as a Judean war god, a brother and rival to Baal (also a god of war and fertility), and the son of El and Asherah. As the Judeans rose to power, they usurped the Canaanite gods with their own. YHWH was depicted as a "jealous god" who forbade worship of El, Ball, and Asherah and commanded people to tear down their idols and temples. Anti-Asherah sentiment can be found throughout the Old Testament. Later, YHWH began to incorporate the roles of Baal, Asherah, and El into his own domain. As a final stroke, it was "revealed" that YHWH and El were not rivals, but YHWH was El all along, taking his place as chief of gods as the Judeans gained power.
The apologetic that address this disturbing archaeological narrative is basically that people are stupid. While this narrative may in fact be the case and people may have in fact YHWH as a separate god from El and worshiped him alongside Baal and Asherah, these people were wrong. The gods they worshiped either didn't exist (at best) or, worst case scenario, they were demons and fallen angels pretending to be gods to sow division among the weak-minded.
Eventually, the "true" God "corrected" His poor, mislead people and took his rightful place as the one and only God.
I think the best apologetic is to shrug your shoulders and agree, yes, that's what the archaeology supports. That doesn't mean that those ancient people were correct in worshiping YHWH as one god among many. There has always been just one God and those people were either plain wrong or mislead by demons or fallen angels.
I recommend Mark S. Smith "The Early History of God: Yahweh And the Other Deities of Ancient Israel
Sorry, are you using the amount of nones in the US to talk about the field of history? That field extends well beyond the US, and being religious is not a barrier to being a good historian anyway. Hell, being religious isn't even a barrier to being a good Bible scholar.
For this scholar at least, we can't say with any confidence, through inferred or explicit evidence, that she was worshipped. https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
It's been a while, so I can't recall the exact details, but while there was clearly an association with YHWH and the Asherim where there, there are so very distinct differences in how she is discussed which leads him to conclude that she probably was not worshipped, and the use of the Asherah poles is simply unknown.
Certainly Israel worshipped multiple deities, he just doesn't include her in that list.
If you haven’t had a chance to read it yourself, pick up Mark S. Smith’s The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel
> as Christianity was founded within Judaism, was it seen as a "threat" / taboo or was it accepted at the time?
It has never been accepted by Jews. At first they were allowed still to worship in the Temple and synagogues, but that ended by about 90AD when they were cast out of the synagogues (and the Temple was destroyed 70AD). By the end of the 1st century it was a religion which was predominantly Gentile (non-Jewish) in nature.
If you're interested in origins, this book goes into the origins of YHWH, the Jewish (and later Christian) god: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080283972X/
> You do get the impression that a lot of Isralites must've been polytheists since the worship of Baal and Ashera were condemned. Nobody would condemn their worship if nobody was worshipping them.
The Bible authors do present it as if the polytheism was a syncretic new thing, a movement away from the "true" religion. This isn't the case, though - the ancient Israelite religion was originally polytheistic; monolatry (and later monotheism) arose out of the polytheistic roots.
I recommend you read this as well, for the actual history: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
You're not entirely wrong, but far from entirely right. You should give this book a read: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X It's a standard for the topic written by an excellent scholar.
YHWH appears to have been imported from the kingdom of Ugarit when it was destroyed in the Bronze Age Collapse.
There's also very little evidence of the worship of Asherah in the ancient Israelite religion. The Asherah poles that the Bible speaks of were indeed cultic symbols, not probably not related to worship of her. We're not quite sure of their use still.
If you want discussion of it, Mark S. Smith discusses it here: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
Most of our sources for this are in the Bible. Jeremiah speaks of it as something that was happening but which God never wanted. Ezekiel later takes an entirely different position, calling it something that God had commanded, to defile his people for His glory. Isaiah talks about in language that's a little more circumspect in a few places, but when you look at the meanings behind Tophet in Isaiah 30:33 that's definitely what it's talking about. We do see Josiah's reforms (2 Kings 23:10) start to change this, but it was definitely part of the ancient Israelite tradition.
The general consensus is that they started off very polytheistic, then henotheistic (believed there were multiple gods, but one who was best), and then monotheistic. You can see it in the Bible, with several of the oldest books referring to other gods almost neutrally, then referring to them as inferior, and eventually referring to them as false.
Mark Smith's "The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel" is quite good, and offers substantially more than what I've posted.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/080283972X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_P01kFb3SEZWZH
Reading Mark Smith's <em>An Early History of God</em> was surreal, partly because the author remained a Christian even after writing the book.
I'd also like to recommend "The Early History of God - Yahweh and the Other Deities of Ancient Israel" by Mark S. Smith. He even gives the reader references to various bible scriptures which one can look up (probably best with a non-JW bible) to see where the ancient polytheistic beliefs of the Canaanites were incorporated right into the bible.
Preview on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
>Has anyone ever felt like this before? Did becoming active on exjw help you find closure?
Yes and yes.
Finding out what was really in the bible after I'd left was amazing. Finding out that the bible contains more than one god which is/was worshipped by them - & that the older god EL was actually a Canaanite deity who was 'father' over a polytheistic belief system, a 'family' of Canaanite gods - and that some of this was also incorporated DIRECTLY INTO THE BIBLE was amazing.
Finding out how little the Watchtower leaders actually know about the bible was PRICELESS, however. It meant that every single one of their bizarre, petty, micro-managing, snitty-old-chuch-lady rules were worthless - void, invalid.
[edit to add link to this book]:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
That book contains references to bible book, chapter & verse to see where the Israelites incorporated so-called 'pagan' beliefs into the bible. But you'd be better off using an online site where you can look up the verses in multiple bible translations: biblegateway.com & that site's "Names of God" translation, to name but one, when you're looking up scriptures.
>So then according to early israelite/canaanite belief, yahweh and satan were brothers?(as they are boths sons of el and asharia)
It's possible, but we don't really have any manuscript support for that notion. We do know that Satan appears in later Israelite religion as one of the sons of elohim. Some scholars suggest that the Canaanite god shachar may have been the equivalent of Satan, but other scholars dispute that.
I would recommend the Early History of God for context on ancient Israelite mythology.
I like to recommend the book "The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel", by Mark S. Smith.
Here's a readable preview of the book on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Smith occasionally gives the reader bible book, chapter & verse to look up to find places where the earlier polytheistic Canaanite gods, beliefs & characteristics of the other (so-called 'pagan') gods were incorporated right into the bible.
I found it a fascinating read.
Okay! Hope I wasn't too snarky; I was in a mood yesterday.
Did you get a chance to look at that book preview on Amazon, of Mark S. Smith's book, "The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel"?
I think that if you still have some concerns about whether or not the Watchtower Society has "The Truth™", that book may show you that the bible itself has some major issues. Namely, that much of the bible's mythology was borrowed from older, polytheistic Canaanite & other cultural sources.
Here's the link again:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
>He's still screaming and arguing downstairs with my mother about how this household is pagan.
What an idiot; the bible itself is "pagan"...
You might enjoy this book, if you haven't already read it:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
There are actually at least 3 gods in the bible (no, not the Trinity); EL (originally the patriarchal deity of the polytheistic Canaanites), Yahweh (the god that finally "made his name known" to Moses), & the "Lord" of the New Testament (the Jewish tetragrammaton or four consonants representing the "name of god" never appeared in the New Testament).
That's just scratching the surface...
You might want to check out Mark S. Smith's book, "The Early History of God; Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel" for further information on just how much of the old polytheistic Canaanite (& contemporary polytheistic) deities were incorporated into the bible...
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Re the Genesis 28:1 pericope I Just have to note that (somewhat but not terribly) recent scholarship says the early Jews were Canaanite and that they later differentiated themselves from that.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Maybe they weren't united politically, but that's not the only way people can have a connection. Roman Catholics in Rome answer to a different political leader than Roman Catholics in the U.S., but that doesn't mean there is no connection between those people.
Check this book out if you think there aren't any connections between them.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Well, if you want to get technical, the bible itself is riddled with pagan beliefs, too...
Read this book with your bible on hand - it gives bible scriptures that have preserved the pagan beliefs within the bible's pages...
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y
>It has dawned on me that they have no intention of understanding what I believe and why I do believe it. They just want to find out what "bothers" me so they can find the right dogma to print out.
Exactly.
They are under Watchtower mind-control, & cannot understand (AND REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND) why or how you've escaped said mind-control - tho they lack the ability to see it as mind-control.
There are a number of ways to approach this, but if you're just looking for some peace & quiet (I would be), if I were in your shoes I would develop a few thought-stopping responses of my own to their cult drivel.
Like (these are suggestions, you will need to tweak & come up with your own...)
"I cannot & will not FAKE a belief which I have found to be deeply flawed. If your 'jehovah' exists, would he approve of such FALSE WORSHIP?"
I wuld also suggest that you do some research into the thoroughly PAGAN origins of the bible. I would recommend the book, "The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel" by Mark S. Smith.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
There are many other scholastic books out there that discuss the pagan Canaanite origins of the Israelites & their deities, but I recommend this one first because Smith gives biblical references - scriptures - to look up in which one can find vestiges of the older polytheistic religions.
I would suggest double-checking those scriptures in that crappy new JW grey thing before using them on your parents, however...
Wall of text, as often happens ......
> I define God the way the Bible does
So the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Sarah, Rachel, Leah, and Rebecca?
Then you, Monotheist (that was quoted), embrace the God El (The Most High, The Father God), the head of the rather large El polytheistic Paytheon?
Or will you go with the retconned monotheistic claimed creator God, YHWH, who is the (literal) son of El and whose followers usurped the Father God, El, in the name of His (El's) son, YHWH, a second tier God, under El’s patronage?
Christianity is based, and contingent upon, accepting (except for smallish details) the canon scripture that preceded the New Testament - and within the Torah/OT, this scripture also accepted scripture that preceded it - all to establish the foundation of a claim to monotheistic Yahwism. And yet, if this necessary (necessary logical truth) precedent is applied to the Torah/OT, and the elements of the Torah/OT that were retconned/changed/edited to support the claim to monotheistic Yahism, were critically examines, one would find that pre-Torah scripture the God YHWH as the literal son of El; where El was the head of a large polytheistic Pantheon of Gods.
> In Christianity there is no competition, no limitations, and no flaws, and therefore no self-contradiction.
The claim of necessary monotheism, upon which the entirety of Christianity is contingent and dependent upon, is, by the necessary precedent of accepting older preceding canon scripture as a basis for belief in YHWH, and of YHWH's nature, and for worship of YHWH, contains within itself the largest self-contradiction of all - the very basis of necessary to Christianity, that of monotheistic Yahwism, is self-refuted by the very means employed to support Christianity and the worship of YHWH.
Dear [Christian] Monotheist, study and learn the history of your Theism. Go beyond the cherry-picked retconned scripture and delve into the pre-exile/pre-capavity history of Judaism, and the early exile/post-exile transition state from polytheism to a claimed monotheism of Judaism, the necessary basis for Christianity and the contingency of the claim of Jesus as an actually successful Messiah/Christ claimant. Learn the fundamental fatal flaw of Christianity and the fallacy that cannot be removed from this Religion (as well as Judaism and Islam). Or not, and live in your own padded and cushioned cell of echo-chamber belief where you literally live for death against the terroristic emotional blackmail of a non-appealable post-death judgement foundationaly, and based totality upon, the fallacious claim of monotheistic Yahwism/Allahism.
[A copy and paste .... so some overlap with the above.....]
A key and oft used principle in Judaism, and Christianity (and Islam), is the precedent that prior scripture regarding the God YHWH/Allah is mostly true, and that subsequent actions/events are directly dependent and contingent upon this older scripture. For example, the whole Jesus is the messiah/Christ of Christianity is fully contingent upon the prophecies and revelation of older Jewish scripture. With this necessary precedent in place, the early worship of the God YHWH, from scripture older than that hand-picked for the Torah/OT/Bible is revelant. And in these narratives and scripture, and within passages in the Bible/OT that have not (were not) fully redacted/edited out, is the essential and foundation evidence of YHWH as one of many Gods in the El Polytheistic Pantheon. El and YHWH are different Gods, even within the sanitized OT, with El the God Most High. In fact, the el in Israel comes from the God El.
A nice summary of still remaining OT verses that support El and YHWH as different Gods is presented in this write-up.
Let's not summarily dismiss the God/Goddess Asherah, the wife of YHWH so often depicted in the Mist Holy of Holies - The Bible: Yahweh’s Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden
And here are some other references that discuss, to varying levels of scholarship, the inherent polytheistic foundation of Judaism, and from Judaism, Christianity, I have complied concerning the pre-monotheistic worship of pre-/proto-israelites and the God YHWH that I have previously posted.
Would you like to know more on the essential polytheistic origin of the God Yahweh with evolution into a monotheism? And how this monotheistic claim grew out of it's essential polytheism (a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism) of the many Gods into a claim of only [and always] one God)?
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
[Character Limit. To Be Continued.]
OP, and anyone else interested, I have complied some references concerning the pre-monotheistic worship of the God YHWH.
A copy and paste ....
Would you like to know more on the essential polytheistic origin of the God Yahweh with evolution into a monotheism? And how this monotheistic claim grew out of it's essential polytheism (a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism) of the many Gods into a claim of only [and always] one God)?
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
> Is this a good book for a lay person for an introduction to the origins of yahweh / the major monotheistic religions?
No.
> By “good” I mean is it held in good/ high regard among scholars?
I'm fairly certain that it is not.
You'd be better off reading The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel & Michael Heiser's work on the Divine Council.
EDIT: grammar
> El was the Canaanite term for "God".
Of course, because the God El was also the main God of the Canaanites. El is the name, God is the title. And El is also the name of God for the proto- and early-Israelites. The Hebrew El is conserved and displayed in the Hebrew "Israel" (May El persevere) and is also conserved and displayed in so many early Jewish names (e.g., Daniel, Michael, etc.). The name Israel is not a Yahwistic name.
The form ישראל (Israel) and אל (el).
There is strong confirmation of the assimilation (via retconning) of El by Yahweh in the biblical record itself (the same place where Mo got so many ideas for Islam). In the oldest literary traditions of the Pentateuch, it is El who regularly appears and not Yahweh, or Yahweh as El! The patriarchal narratives identify El as the deity to whom many of the early patriarchal shrines and altars were built. For example, we are informed in Genesis 33:20 that Jacob builds an altar in the old cultic center of the north, Shechem, and dedicates it to “El, god of Israel” (’el ’elohe yišra’el ). There is no ambiguity in the Hebrew here: ’el must be translated as a proper name, El.
> Asherah and the "sons" were partners attached to God by the Canaanites.
No quotes on the sons, the unchanged holy scripture of the God El (unchanged after all these years because a good portion of it was set in stone) identifies 70 literal sons.
lightning_thrower, if you are actually interested in the transition of polytheistic El worship into a monotheism for Yahweh/Allah, I've dumped some references for you at the end of this comment. However, it is unlikely that you will view this material as it undermines the most essential and foundational basis for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
> Only according to Canaanite mythology.
With this same logic, and from one that is not drinking the Flavor-aid of presuppositionalism (likely added by childhood indoctrination into Islam), the same can be said of all the claims of Islam. That Islam is mythology. Only difference, Islam is currently popular, thus it is called a religion.
Traces of the foundational polytheistic (many many gods, El is in charge) belief, and it's evolution into a man-driven politically and militarily motivated monolatry for Yahweh (Yahweh is in charge, acknowledgement of other gods) to monotheistic Yahwehism (where Yahweh is and, somehow, always been the one and only god “There is no god but YHWH/Allah”/“You shall have no other gods before Me"), litter the Torah and Old Testament of the Bible which survived editing and redaction. To a lesser extent (as it is based upon already redacted material and with better editing/explicit rationalizations already included) the New Testament and Qur'an also show linkages to this foundational polytheistic belief. Given that the tradition of monotheistic Yahwehism is the essential foundation of the Abrahamic Religions, this falsehood propagates to any/all doctrine/dogma/claims dependent/contingent upon this foundation - rendering the existence of this God, and these religious tenets/doctrine/dogma/"truths", at best, demonstratively invalid; and nominally, morally and culturally reprehensible.
And for evidential support, feel free to peruse the following:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
"You shall have no other gods before me” is tacit admission that there are other Gods, and that Yahweh is the top God in the polytheistic henotheism. And at the time of the authorship of this verse (Exodus 20:2 and Deuteronomy 5:6) the transition of the inherent polytheism of Yahweh worship in a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism), which was elevated from polytheism to henotheism (a monolatry for Yahweh; Yahweh is in charge, there are other Gods to worship) to an aggressive monolatrist polytheistic belief (Yahweh is the most important God, there exists other Gods but worship of these other Gods is to be actively rejected) to, finally, a monotheistic belief system (there is and, somehow, always has been, only Yahweh) was not yet complete.
Traces of the foundational polytheistic (many many gods, El is in charge) belief, and it's evolution into a man-driven politically and militarily motivated monolatry for Yahweh (Yahweh is in charge, acknowledgement of other gods) to monotheistic Yahwehism (where Yahweh is and, somehow, always been the one and only god “There is no god but YHWH/Allah”/“You shall have no other gods before Me"), litter the Torah and Old Testament of the Bible which survived editing and redaction. To a lesser extent (as it is based upon already redacted material and with better editing/explicit rationalizations already included) the New Testament and Qur'an also show linkages to this foundational polytheistic belief. Given that the tradition of monotheistic Yahwehism is the essential foundation of the Abrahamic Religions, this falsehood propagates to any/all doctrine/dogma/claims dependent/contingent upon this foundation - rendering the existence of this God, and these religious tenets/doctrine/dogma/"truths", at best, demonstratively invalid; and nominally, morally and culturally reprehensible.
And for evidential support, feel free to peruse the following:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
> If it is any, it's the g-d of abraham
Indeed, the God of Abraham (and Issac, Jacob, Sarah, Rachel, Leah, and Rebecca) is The Most High, The Father God.
Interesting, not many people speak of and embrace the God El, the head of the rather large El polytheistic Pantheon, of which the second tier God, Yahweh (son of El), is only one of many (Ba'al, Mot, etc.).
Thank you OP for acknowledging the God El. So many forget (or ignore) Him.
> the g-d who is most widely known
Well, I have to argue this one. 2500-4000 years ago, El would have been considered the most wildly known in a portion of the Middle East. You know, the period before and during, the Babylonian Captivity/Exile, where the proto-/early-Israelites recognized El and other Gods, and some acknowledged the God YHWH as their tribal God. The period of Abraham (and Issac, Jacob, Sarah, Rachel, Leah, and Rebecca). Praise El! And His Wife/Consort Asherah, and the entire Polytheistic Pantheon. But now, the meme of the monotheistic Yahweh would be the most wildly know to meet the requirements of an appeal to popularity.
BTW - "El" is a proper name, and not a generic name for Gods as fronted by apologists that have blinders on to support the retconned/edited Torah where "El" refers to a specific God where the followers of YHWH usurped El as the head of the large polytheistic pantheon towards henothesism (a monolatry for Yahweh; Yahweh is in charge, there are other Gods to worship, to an aggressive monolatrist polytheistic belief (Yahweh is the most important God, there exists other Gods but worship of these other Gods is to be actively rejected) to, finally, a monotheistic belief system (there is and, somehow, always has been, only Yahweh).
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some additional references ....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
> if it's not the g-d of abraham, abrahams g-d is kicking dust in his face.
TIL, God is a POS bully. Much like the God Yahweh/Allah as portrayed in the historical Torah, Bible, and Qur'an scared and Holy narratives.
> Any other books or articles that can be recommended?
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
A copy/paste of a set of references I put together a while back. The amazon linked books are (were) available from various places on the webs if you want to review before you buy.
And would you like to know more on the essential polytheistic origin of the God Yahweh into a monotheism? And how this monotheistic claim grew out of it's essential polytheism (a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism) of the many Gods into a claim of only [and always] one God)?
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
Edit: Replaced bad link
> That being said I 100% believe in God, and Jesus, etc
A nit - really 100% absolute certainty that the God Yahweh exists, the construct of monotheistic Yahwism is true, and that 'Jesus' existed historically across all claims/stories presented in the canon Gospels? 100% certainty? How do you justify or support a characterization of 100% certainty?
So FlippityFl0pPoop, why do you believe the God Yahweh exists, the construct of monotheistic Yahwism is true, and that 'Jesus' existed historically across all claims/stories presented in the canon Gospels? Use logic, appeal to emotions, feelings/hopes/wishes/dreams, etc., - whatever provides you a basis for your Christian beliefs/Theistic Religious Faith.
Personally, my support and belief of Christianity took a nose dive towards atheism when I started to actually read and investigate the context of the narratives of the OT and NT (ironically when I attempted to understand my Christian religion more thoroughly) .
For example - the God "El," the Father God/God Most High was the actual God of Abraham, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Sarah, Rachel, Leah, and Rebecca. All of these people were early Israelites - where "Israel" means “May El persevere." And, upon further investigation, the God YHWH/Yahweh is merely the literal son of El (and Asherah) and is just one son of 70 total sons.
So, the construct of monotheistic Yahwism, upon which Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, is dependent/contingent, if considered without the confirmation bias of a claim of monotheism, raises significant doubt regarding the dependent/contingent claim of Jesus as a successful Jewish Christ/Anointed One/Messiah/Mashiach claimant and any claims of Divinity (Christian sect dependent - question: Why is the One True Religion of Christian so divergent?)
FlippityFl0pPoop, would you like to know more concerning the origin of the claim and belief of monotheistic Yahwism? Careful now - this information may induce doubts!
The God El was the main God of the Canaanites. El is the name, God is the title. And El is also the name of God for the proto- and early-Israelites. The Hebrew El is conserved and displayed in the Hebrew "Israel" (May El persevere) and is also conserved and displayed in so many early Jewish names (e.g., Daniel, Michael, etc.). The name Israel is not a Yahwistic name.
The form ישראל (Israel) and אל (el).
There is strong confirmation of the assimilation (via retconning) of El by Yahweh in the biblical record itself. In the oldest literary traditions of the Pentateuch, it is El who regularly appears and not Yahweh, or Yahweh as El! The patriarchal narratives identify El as the deity to whom many of the early patriarchal shrines and altars were built. For example, we are informed in Genesis 33:20 that Jacob builds an altar in the old cultic center of the north, Shechem, and dedicates it to “El, god of Israel” (’el ’elohe yišra’el ). There is no ambiguity in the Hebrew here: ’el must be translated as a proper name, El.
Traces of the foundational polytheistic (many many gods, El is in charge) belief, and it's evolution into a man-driven politically and militarily motivated monolatry for Yahweh (Yahweh is in charge, acknowledgement of other gods) to monotheistic Yahwehism (where Yahweh is and, somehow, always been the one and only god “There is no god but YHWH/Allah”/“You shall have no other gods before Me"), litter the Torah and Old Testament of the Bible which survived editing and redaction. To a lesser extent (as it is based upon already redacted material and with better editing/explicit rationalizations already included) the New Testament and Qur'an also show linkages to this foundational polytheistic belief. Given that the tradition of monotheistic Yahwehism is the essential foundation of the Abrahamic Religions, this falsehood propagates to any/all doctrine/dogma/claims dependent/contingent upon this foundation - rendering the existence of this God, and these religious tenets/doctrine/dogma/"truths", at best, demonstratively invalid; and nominally, morally and culturally reprehensible.
And for evidential support, feel free to peruse the following:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
Mark S. Smith The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel and The Origins of Biblical Monotheism.
Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Sacred Texts
Thomas L. Thompson The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel
Glad you asked.
[A copy and paste of an argument summary against monotheistic Yahwism that includes references that support the differentiation of the God El and the God YHWH as two separate Gods]
The most foundational belief in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, includes the essential attribute that Yahweh/YHWH/YHVH, God, or Allah, is that "God" exists and there is the only one true revealed God (monotheism) - or monotheistic Yahwehism. As this is the core of the Tanakh (Judaism), Bible (Christianity), and Qur'an/Koran (Islam), questions concerning the source of, and the validity of, this monotheistic Deity belief would raise significant doubt as to the existence of this God, the various Holy Book's validity as the word of God/Yahweh/Allah and to the very foundation of these belief systems. These core scriptural documents also establish the precept and precedent accepting predecessor society/culture holy scripture and documentation of revealed Yahwehism and integrating and propagating core attributes and beliefs (though with some variation and conflict with peripherals). Yet, within the Holy Scriptures of predecessor Babylonian, Ugarit and Canaanite, and early Israelite (Israel - meaning "may El [the God] preserve") religions/societies/cultures, the evidence points to the evolution and growth in the belief of the monothesitic Yahweh Deity from a polytheistic foundation of the El (the Father God/God Most High) God pantheon. Yahweh (one of many sons of El) was a subordinate local God whom, through a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism), was elevated from polytheism to henotheism (a monolatry for Yahweh; Yahweh is in charge, there are other Gods to worship) to an aggressive monolatrist polytheistic belief (Yahweh is the most important God, there exists other Gods but worship of these other Gods is to be actively rejected) to, finally, a monotheistic belief system (there is and, somehow, always has been, only Yahweh) as documented in the revealed holy scriptures of these religions and cultures that directly influenced and/or became the Biblical Israelites.
This very basis of the validity of Christianity undermines the claim of monotheistic Yahwism. A belief and claim which is contingent upon the actual existence of the God YHWH, but it, in itself, is a second necessary claim upon which the whole of contingency of Catholism and Christianity depends.
Here are some physical archeological and linguistic anthropological evidential sources, to varying levels of scholarship, documenting the development and growth of monotheistic Yahwehism/Allahism from a historical essential polytheistic origin and foundation of revealed holy scripture to the monotheism of early Biblical Israelites:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
The failure of the claim of monotheism (before even considering the various claim of Trinitarianism that many Christian sects claim) based upon the necessary precedents required in the Abrahamic Religions as a source of refutation, negates the trueness claim of Catholicism/Christianity.
A few /r/AcademicBiblical links discussing a separate El and YHWH:
- https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/d1w3ax/any_evidence_for_yahweh_being_a_god_of_war_son_of/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/d213co/why_are_mountains_so_important_in_the_bible/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/e57bak/yhwh_and_other_near_eastern_deities/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/eovf28/el_and_yhwh/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/hvy75n/do_scholars_think_yhwh_and_el_to_be_different/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/mp560m/how_and_why_did_jewish_monotheism_develop_from/
You've raised a lot of questions that caused major problems for me, too. Especially that clear idolatry of the copper serpent, which was directly commanded by the Israelites' god. That was about as shocking to me as god telling Abraham to kill his own son - oh, and the Israelites worshipping a volcano/volcanic eruption in Exodus 19: 16 - 19.
> I would be interested to hear if anyone has researched and found answers to these questions or similar thoughts?
I can point you towards some of the answers, but you won't find answers in the Watchtower literature, because the Watchtower Society isn't the "sincere bible students' organization" it claims to be. Watchtower Society is basically a slightly different flavor of fundamentalist, literalist, apocalyptic American Christian group. It has far more in common with the fundamentalist Baptist and evangelical churches than it does with the "Hebrews", for example.
First, stop using the JW dot org online bible or any JW bible, and start using the "Names of God" bible (and the other bibles, especially the Complete Jewish Bible) at biblegateway: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NOG
Once you've realized that there were many different names for the "god" - in reality, godS of the Israelites/Hebrews, the picture becomes clearer.
This video goes into the various deities worshipped by the Israelites, as shown by the biblegateway "Names of God" bible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
Another video you might find interesting and informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZECezMYug8c&t=4s
A series on the bible presented by Yale https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
A few books that discuss the polytheism of the Israelites/Hebrews - I link Amazon because it gives previews. You don't have to buy the books from Amazon, though:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
https://www.amazon.com/Origins-Biblical-Monotheism-Polytheistic-Background/dp/0195167686
https://www.amazon.com/Stories-Ancient-Canaan-Second-Michael/dp/0664232426
https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
All of that information is just the tip of the iceberg of information out there from biblical scholars and archaeologists regarding the real origins of the bible.
[Continued From Above.]
- An afterlife exists and that some or all of the "I" will have actualized existence in this afterlife
- Heaven exists (if Heaven can be shown to exist in actualization, then the other levels of the afterlife will be accepted) (Bonus: What, from the point of view of YHWH, is the purpose of Heaven?)
- Prayers (spoken and/or inner monologue telepathically sent) of petition/intervention/supplication are positively answered by Yahweh
- The actualizations of purpose of YHWH, as presented in the Torah and Bible, represents reality
- The revelations of YHWH, as presented in the Torah and Bible, are historical actualizations of the Word of God* An Objective Morality, linked to the revelations and authority of YHWH, exists (Bonus: What does "objective" mean in the context of Objective Morality?)
- Jesus existed (historically as a person, historically via the secular narratives of canon scriptures, and historically via the supernatural elements of the canon scriptures) and is the Jewish Christ/Anointed One/Messiah/Mashiach (via the, arguable, meeting of all the relevant prophecies) and is fully human/fully Yahweh or otherwise Divine
[It is conceded that a historical person named "Jesus" existed in the time frame of interest ("Jesus" was a common name), and that a "Jesus" was a Messiah claimant, and that a "Jesus" was put to death by the Romans. What is not conceded is that any random Jewish man named "Jesus" is the Jesus of the New Testament, nor any biographical data, actions/words, and supernatural related claims, that is presented in the NT. These claims require a credible proof presentation to be considered.]
- Jesus was resurrected from death which provides eternal salvation in an afterlife via blood sacrifice (some form of propitiation and substitutionary/vicarious atonement)
- The narratives within the canon Torah presenting the actual utterances of the Lord God are accurate
- The narratives within the canon Gospels presenting the actual utterances of Jesus are accurate
- Paul/Saul telepathically communicated with The Christ and received the revealed Word and accurately documented this Word in the various missives attributed to Paul/Saul
Can you, and more importantly, will you support your positive claim position(s), present an argument(s) and meet the burden of proof to support your claim(s), and then defend your argument(s) against refutation/criticism? And will you agree to follow some simple debate rules? If the argument fails for lack of credible evidence or supportable argument, and/or for logical fallacies, then the person making the argument never brings up that argument again with anyone. Ever. Additionally the person making the argument must demonstrate that they actually understand the argument(s) being presented - a copy/paste of an argument from someone else is intellectually dishonest if the presenter does not understand it. The definition of words commonly misunderstood, like "theory," will use Wikipedia definitions unless otherwise explicitly stated. Consider these Debate Rules as applicable to all parties when presenting your argument/post. Finally, be aware of these common logical fallacies when presenting your argument/claim/assertion as the use of these fallacies will significantly reduce, or outright negate, the credibility of your argument.
- The difference between a claim/assertion and credible evidence or supportable argument
- Circular reasoning. (e.g., The claims made in the Torah/Bible/Qur'an/Hindu Vedas (or any "Holy Book") are true because the Torah/Bible/Qur'an says so based upon the authority of the Torah/Bible/Qur'an/Hindu Vedas which says the Torah/Bible/Qur'an/Hindu Vedas is the authority.)
- Begging the question
- Special pleading
- Argument from ignorance
- Religious Faith that reduces to the conceit of subjective emotions/feelings/wishful thinking/"I know in my heart of hearts that this thing is true" as having a actual and supportable truth/fact value
- Presumption/presuppositionalism
I look forward to your response. If you present a credible and supportable position, via credible evidence, and/or supportable argument that is free from logical fallacies and which can be shown to actually be linkable to this reality, to a level of significance (or level of reliability and confidence) above that of an appeal to emotion, I will consider your message and adjust my religious related worldview accordingly.
If you fail to present a credible and supportable position, then any and all argument(s) that you make that are dependent or contingent upon the above claim(s) will summarily be rejected for lack of foundation, as applicable.
Here are some physical archeological and linguistic anthropological evidential sources, to varying levels of scholarship, documenting the development and growth of monotheistic Yahwehism/Allahism from a historical essential polytheistic origin and foundation of revealed holy scripture to the monotheism of early Biblical Israelites:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
The failure of the claim of monotheism (before even considering the various claim of Trinitarianism that many Christian sects claim) based upon the necessary precedents required in the Abrahamic Religions as a source of refutation, negates the trueness claim of Christianity.
You missed the biggest one of all.
The bible.
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
> Sorry I can do the color run for charity because the run is based on pagan history....
ROFL!! Like the bible isn't riddled with paganism...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NOG
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%203&version=NOG
http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read1/r00425.html
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Better feed their minds with LOTS of logic, science, & research into the REAL origins of the bible, until then...
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Ah, HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
Uhm, even tho I was beaten into the religion/sect/cult, I was pretty sure that not only are the Jehovah's Witnesses WRONG, but that the bible itself is thoroughly wrong, too.
In fact, when I was around 7 - 8 years old & an elder read the scripture Exodus 19: 16-19, and I recognized it as a fairly decent description of a volcanic eruption - & I ALSO realized that neither the Israelites NOR THEIR GOD knew what a volcano was...
I would have become an atheist right then & there, had my vicious father not beaten me into the cult.
You may want to read these books:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
You'll learn FAR MORE about the bible by reading those books, than by a lifetime being spoon-fed those carefully cherry-picked scriptures by the Watchtower Society....
May I suggest that you read (for starters):
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
You'll learn much more about the bible from those books than from the entire pulpy mass of all the publications that the Watchtower Society has ever printed.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
I recommend this book if you want to learn more. He’s one of the leading scholars on this.
El Elyon.
El Elyon is the father of the god people worship today.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
Leading scholar on the subject
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
Interesting how the Christian and Jewish god is the son of a greater god.
I want to help you.
Go on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
Buy this book.
This is the one of the leading scholar on ancient Judaism. He will tell you about its history. Spoilers, the Jewish god is the son of a more supreme god. This is a book that talks about early Judaism. Things you knew nothing about.
Also
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DB39V2Q/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i3
A leading scholar on the NT.
Also his book on the creation of hell.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1501136739/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Learn about Judaism and Christianity. It will help your ocd.
There's plenty of stuff on YouTube about it. Here's a good starting point https://youtu.be/A-nM3-QE2V4
Another good source is 'The Early History of God https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=f661d5e1-fef7-4b86-8aa2-249d591e046c
For more on this topic, I recommend Mark S. Smith The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel
If you want good scholarly input on the early Israelite religion, this is a good book: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
This book is a great resource for historical understanding of YHWH: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Early_History_of_God (purchase link: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X)
Our first evidence of YHWH comes from the city of Ugarit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugarit
Moses, though, doesn't play into this much, since he is considered to be at least primarily a legendary figure, and may not have ever lived.
>Don't forget the Bible is made of 66 books with 40 different authors written over the course of 1500 years
More than 40 authors, and over more like 8-900 years. The oldest book is Amos, from the 7th to 8th century BC. The Torah is supposedly the oldest, but it post-dates the Exile, though the pre-redaction texts predate the Exile. Parts of Job are extremely old, but it was finished post-Exile. The newest is unclear. It could be gJohn, it could be Revelation, it could be Luke-Acts, it could be the Pastorals. Early 2nd century, either way.
Definitely nothing in the current Bible is from the 14th century BC or anywhere near that.
>Where does the Bibles view shift?
It has many. From the underlying text of the Torah and Judges, etc, we see that YHWH was originally a part of the Canaanite pantheon, the Israelite tribal god of war. Obviously his role changed as he became the supreme god, and then the only god. Mark Smith's book here is a standard among Biblical scholarship for this view.
We can trace the development of ideas of the afterlife throughout, as well. We start with the Grave. Everybody goes there, they're basically zombies. No joy, no pain. That morphs over time to Abraham's bosom as a good place for people, and the bad place idea starts to come in. In the early Christian texts we see passages leading to a few possible ideas, such as annihilationism, eternal conscious torment, or purgatorial universalism. The early church was pretty all over the place here, and only the Roman church (out of the major original sees) believed in the Hell idea that's common in Catholicism and most Protestantism today. We also see Abraham's bosom go from a barely defined sketch of an idea to the much more full-featured afterlife of Revelation. Ehrman goes over it well here.
For the Messiah, we have a purely human Messiah in the Old Testament, a political figure. That gets recreated as a divine Messiah, meshing the apocalypticism of Daniel and later non-canon writings with Messiah idea and the experiences of the Disciples. This is a huge shift. A shift so huge that Judaism rejected the Christian developments and the religions split.
> I have studied the Bible more than you its why I'm confident your wrong
Be as confident as you want, I know I am speaking within the bounds of mainstream Biblical scholarship.
> I'd be very interested to see data to support that proposition.
I would suggest reading The Early History of God.
Since my shelf broke 2 years ago I've done nothing but try and build my own understanding of God. To do this I started with the OT. There are so many books and podcasts I've been through.
To start https://youtu.be/mo-YL-lv3RY
Also I would say Mark S Smith is a must. The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel (The Biblical Resource Series) https://www.amazon.com/dp/080283972X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_fabc_23V5ZJPPS2NE74EGTJ28
Also for how the canon was created. The Canon Debate https://www.amazon.com/dp/0801047080/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_fabc_TEMZ8QS2SE1FBEVXD2GJ
For a professor podcast to listen to on the NT that is amazing. Mark Goodacre is awesome. Check out this Podcast: NT Pod https://player.fm/series/nt-pod
I have more YouTube, podcasts, or books but these are my favorite and top notch scholarly works. They all treat the topic very fairly, just what is.
I recently got the Jewish study bible. It's great. The introduction and genesis I've read and it's very very thorough.
Check out r/academicbiblical they are great and have topics to go through. I ask my questions there.
You might check out Mark Smith's The Early History of God and The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic History and the Ugaritic Texts.
Turns out some of the best scholarship on this is by Catholics:
- Mark Smith, The Early History of God (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X)
- Robert Miller II, Yahweh: Origin of a Desert God (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yahweh-Forschungen-Religion-Literatur-Testaments/dp/3525540868)
Though it may not seem that way there's nothing to be worried about here :)
[My go-to response concerning the essential and foundational polytheistic basis for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.]
Some references on the essential polytheistic origin of the God Yahweh with evolution into a monotheism? And how this monotheistic claim grew out of it's essential polytheism (a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism) of the many Gods into a claim of only [and always] one God)?
by Mark Smith * The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts
by Mark S. Smith * A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam
by Karen Armstrong * The Religion of Ancient Israel
(Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller * Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches
by Ziony Zevit * Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day *
God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While
limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
Ugarit and the Bible * Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg * The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?,
by u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
| Item | Current | Lowest | Reviews |
|---|---|---|---|
| The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other De… | - | - | 4.5/5.0 |
^Item&nbsp;Info | Bot&nbsp;Info | Trigger
Okay, following are YouTube playlists and videos you and she might find interesting about the origins of the bible:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEnqfPnCRxLJBY6UpQ8sHDksIJUqmrMFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZECezMYug8c&t=311s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtI-lSvS028
And speaking of volcanoes in the bible....
From: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/148125942
>PAGELS: We don't know whether John witnessed it. He well may have. We think that he escaped from Jerusalem at that point and he went off to Asia Minor, which is territory that we now call Turkey, and he was waiting because he was somehow convinced that these were the last days, that something that catastrophic couldn't happen unless the end of the world was coming.
>
>GROSS: Now, you think some of the images in Revelation may have come from the volcanic eruption of Mount Vesuvius, which buried and destroyed Pompeii and nearly everybody in it. Was that contemporaneous with John's life?
>
>PAGELS: Yes, most people think that John was writing in about the year 90 of the first century. That would be 60 years after the death of Jesus. And the eruption of Mount Vesuvius happened in the year 79 in Sicily [POST-BROADCAST CLARIFICATION: Mount Vesuvius is in the Bay of Naples.], and it was an enormous volcanic explosion. It destroyed two cities.
>
>So much of what we find in the book of Revelation, couched in the most fantastic imagery, are descriptions of events that for John were very close: the war in Jerusalem, the eruption of Mount Vesuvius, the Roman emperors who were ruling at the time.
I've already posted 3 links about the likely pagan origins or strongly pagan influences upon the origins of the Passover, up above.
Multiple gods as the supposedly "one" god of the bible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg&t=502s
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
That's probably enough to get you started, although I would also recommend these older books (and there are many more newer books to read, too). These are Amazon links because Amazon provides a preview of the books:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
https://www.amazon.com/Origins-Biblical-Monotheism-Polytheistic-Background/dp/0195167686
https://www.amazon.com/King-Manasseh-Child-Sacrifice-Alttestamentliche/dp/3110179946
And on that subject:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-abraham-murdered-isaac/
And THAT'S probably enough for now.....
This is an excellent book on the matter, and while we can't say with 100% certitude, we know that YHWH was part of the Canaanite pantheon, subordinate to El.
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
This is a great resource for why historians think this: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
i got you fam.
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel, by Mark S. Smith, Patrick D. Miller
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts, by Mark S. Smith
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan, by John Day, Andrew Mein
- Gods, Goddesses, and Images of God in Ancient Israel, by Othmar Keel
- Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel, by William G. Dever
WHICH "god"?
Apparently you've never seen a "Names of God" bible.
In reality there are multiple "names" of "god" in the bible, but when you get into the origins of those names most of them trace right back to the names of the Canaanite gods which were worshipped by the polytheist Canaanites, who preceded the existence of Israel by at least hundreds if not a thousand years.
The "Names of God" bible on Biblegateway:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NOG
Along with that, you may enjoy this YouTube video about the various authors and editors of the Pentateuch - the first 5 books of the bible - and how their use of different names for "god" were likely prompted by political/religious power struggles within the emerging nation of Israel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg&t=268s
There are a couple of errors in that video, but overall it gives a good introduction to the information that bible scholars have had for decades, which common Christians (especially in the USA) still are unaware of or refuse to listen to.
Here's the most significant error in that video:
>@0:54 - 0:58, any chance you could correct that "14,000 years ago" to "4,000 years ago"? If you're referring to the Sumerian origins of the Babylonian civilization, that should have been "6,000 years ago" or somewhere thereabouts, at the beginnings of the Sumerian culture. 14,000 years ago predates even the Gobekli Tepe temples in Turkey.
In addition to that, I'd recommend that you use the "Names of God" bible while reading this book by Mark S. Smith:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
(I use Amazon links because they give you a preview of the book....)
And so much more besides that: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
TL/dr; The sad reality is that the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews worshipped multiple gods even while they were claiming to be worshipping just one god. When they did manage to worship just "one" god - the war-god YHWH - they added characteristics from EL (the head god of the polytheistic Canaanites) and Baal to the YHWH - in addition to bits and pieces from OTHER deities, too.
Oh, and - Isra - EL. The Canaanite EL was so significant that the nation of Isra - EL is to this day using that old Canaanite name in the name of their government and lands. You'll hear Christian apologists claiming that "EL" is just a title, but in fact it originally was the name of the Canaanite main god and was only later subsumed into a title for their war-god.
[Continued From Above.]
This very basis of the validity of Christianity undermines the claim of monotheistic Yahwism. A belief and claim which is contingent upon the actual existence of the God YHWH, but it, in itself, is a second necessary claim upon which the whole of contingency of Catholism and Christianity depends.
Here are some physical archeological and linguistic anthropological evidential sources, to varying levels of scholarship, documenting the development and growth of monotheistic Yahwehism/Allahism from a historical essential polytheistic origin and foundation of revealed holy scripture to the monotheism of early Biblical Israelites:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
The failure of the claim of monotheism (before even considering the various claim of Trinitarianism that many Christian sects claim) based upon the necessary precedents required in the Abrahamic Religions as a source of refutation, negates the trueness claim of Catholicism/Christianity.
Sort of. EL was the main Canaanite deity, and there's some evidence that the YHWH character started out as a middle to southern Arabian war-god that was imported into Canaan.
Some interesting links, which present different viewpoints of ol' YHWH:
May have been an early Canaanite version of what would later become the Roman god of metallurgy, Vulcan:
Just found a site I haven't seen before, about YHWH:
https://www.thetorah.com/article/yhwh-the-original-arabic-meaning-of-the-name
This is just a snippet, but it refers to the YHWH association with the Baals, which iirc was also mentioned in "The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Gods in Ancient Israel".
https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004437678/BP000021.xml
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
>The reason God was Father to the ancient Hebrews was to differentiate from all the pagan mother-goddesses of the surrounding nations.
Highly ironic that you make that claim, since the male YHWH war-god arrogated characteristics from his FEMALE WIFE goddess, Asherah.
Get this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
And check out Chapter One, subheading "Yahweh and Asherah" beginning on page 47 in which the author describes how the priests took feminine characteristics of the Israelite fertility goddess Asherah and rolled them into the YHWH war-god as he came into competition with Baal, Ishtar, and other eastern Mediterranean fertility gods and goddesses.
This book discusses the goddess Asherah and the archaeological evidence that the Israelites originally worshipped her along with EL or YHWH:
https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
For that matter, the "Trinity" is not a long-running Hebrew/Jewish belief. It is a late (and likely originally pagan) addition to the New Testament, beginning in the third century CE.
From: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity/trinity-history.html#Up325CE
>No theologian in the first three Christian centuries was a trinitarian in the sense of a believing that the one God is tripersonal, containing equally divine “persons”, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
>The terms we translate as “Trinity” (Latin: trinitas, Greek: trias) seem to have come into use only in the last two decades of the second century; but such usage doesn’t reflect trinitarian belief. These late second and third century authors use such terms not to refer to the one God, but rather to refer to the plurality of the one God, together with his Son (on Word) and his Spirit. They profess a “trinity”, triad or threesome, but not a triune or tripersonal God. Nor did they consider these to be equally divine. A common strategy for defending monotheism in this period is to emphasize the unique divinity of the Father.
This link also discusses the later introduction of the Trinity into Christianity:
Look into the real origins of the bible. That search will completely explain why the bible is not only unclear, but contradicts itself at times and displays origins that only date back around 3,000 years, not the 6,000 years that Christian literalist apologists may claim.
Incidentally there are several gods in the bible who were (or their aspects were) rolled into the supposedly "one" (originally a) war-god YHWH.
Names of God bible from Biblegateway:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NOG
The Canaanite plural Elohim referred to multiple gods, so it is strange that many Christian apologists claim that the clearly plural form of Elohim in Genesis chapter 1: 26 suddenly reverses from the supposedly singular form into "Let US make man in OUR image".
There is solid evidence that the early Israelite religion evolved out of the Canaanite religion: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Canaanite_Religion
Why El (of Isra - EL) and YHWH are not originally the same god - even in the bible:
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
Baal was also incorporated into the supposedly "one" god of the bible:
https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/44/4/3
Also see: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
> In a way I really want them to know, just so that they are not complete outsiders
Perhaps use the information about the real origins of the bible?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL279CFA55C51E75E0
Bart Ehrman about the New Testament and Jesus: https://www.youtube.com/c/bartdehrman/videos
Volcanism in the Old Testament (especially in Exodus): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtI-lSvS028
Multiple gods worshipped by the Israelites (and eventually combined into "one" god):
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
It's not just one article; this information has been widely known among biblical scholars for decades. But such information is NOT well known among American fundie Christians and literalist evangelicals. Those groups tend to deliberately ignore the last few decades' discoveries and research among biblical scholars and archaeologists working in the so-called "bible" lands.
Keep in mind that the Jehovah's Witnesses under the control of the Watchtower Society corporation(s) are just a slightly different stripe of American fundie/evangelical Christian movement. They may sneer at immortality of the soul, the Trinity, Heaven/Hell for good/bad people, "Evilution" and one or two other differences, but when it comes to bible literalism, apocalyptic visions of humanity's future, extreme misogyny and rigid gender roles the Jehovah's Witnesses match the other American fundie/evangelical Christians, point for point.
So the Watchtower Society's leaders are just as damned ignorant (if not more so) of what's actually IN the bible and the REAL origins of the bible as practically every flashy televangelist and hellfire & brimstone preacher.
Having said that, start here for the beginnings of the information out there about the bible's origins and its contradictions and imperfections:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
That book has bible verses you can look up, although you would be better off using an online multi-translation site like https://biblehub.com/ or https://www.biblegateway.com/ (and check several different translations) instead of the JW online or any JW bible.
Then there's this book: https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
These videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtI-lSvS028
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
Entire Yale bible course online: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
Bart D. Ehrman's YouTube channel, author of many books about the origins of the New Testament and Jesus: https://www.bartdehrman.com/books-published/
His channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9O8xILJQAs9LxaM4HiMOQ
That should get you started...
Good? Well maybe.
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day * God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods? * Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
A suggestion.
Remind the class as to what atheism actually means.
Atheism means "without God/Gods." This definition then divides into two epistemological classes (2) the position of non-belief in the existence of Gods primarily as a result of the abject continuing failure of Theists to make a credible proof presentation for the existence of God(s) to a level of reliability and confidence, or standard of evidence, high enough to support the extraordinary consequences of an actually existent God. This position of atheism cannot be proven, as it represents the null hypothesis - it can only be falsified or negated by a credible proof presentation that "God(s) exist," where "Gods exists" represents the alternate hypothesis. (2) the propositional belief claim that Gods do not exist. The claim that Gods odo not exist does have a burden of proof obligation.
Additionally, explicit atheism is a response to the claims of theism or that God(s) exists. After all, one does not even consider that one is an a-globbuggereater-ist unless someone has made a claim that a globbuggereater does exist.
As such, to maintain the failure to reject the position of atheism (see above), one merely needs to provide refutation to any claim of God(s), and the associated proof presentation made to support this claim, to the same or higher level of reliability and confidence associated with this proof presentation that "God(s) exist." And since the best level of reliability and confidence in support of "God(s) exists" fails to exceed the very low level of reliability and confidence of an appeal to emotion; feelings; wishful thinking; highly-subjective mind-dependent qualia-experience; the ego-conceit of self-affirmation that what "I feel in my heart of hearts as true" represents a mind-independent objective truth; of unsupported and artificial elevation of a conceptual possibility to an actual probability claimed to have a credible fact value; a logic argument that fails to be shown to be logically true and irrefutable as well as being shown to be factually true, arguments from ignorance/incredulity/fear, the following represent reasonable, rational, and valid, arguments that refute the claim of "God(s) exist."
Using the level of significance of arguments/evidence/knowledge threshold used to support the existence of God(s), then, arguably, the following represents valid and credible arguments/evidence/knowledge against the existence of Gods.
- Lack or absence of evidence IS evidence of absence, especially when such evidence is expected from the Theistic claims made and is actively sought. This argument especially applies to Gods claimed to be intervening where interventions appear to negate or violate physicalism (i.e., so-called 'supernatural miracles' from God).
- Statements, personal testimony of the lack of any God presence, and feelings that God does not exist
- That which is claimed to have non-falsifiable attributes (even in potential) has the same level of significance for existence as for non-existence, rendering the claim of non-falsifiable attributes in a God as a valid argument against the existence of this God.
An argument specific to Christianity?
TL;DR The very theological precedents essential to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, provides an argument that falsifies these Theistic Religions.
A couple of The most foundational belief in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, includes the essential attribute that Yahweh/YHWH/YHVH, God, or Allah, is that "God" exists and there is the only one true revealed God (monotheism) - or monotheistic Yahwehism. As this is the core of the Tanakh (Judaism), Bible (Christianity), and Qur'an/Koran (Islam), questions concerning the source of, and the validity of, this monotheistic Deity belief would raise significant doubt as to the existence of this God, the various Holy Book's validity as the word of God/Yahweh/Allah and to the very foundation of these belief systems.
These core scriptural documents also establish the precept and precedent accepting predecessor society/culture holy scripture and documentation of revealed Yahwehism and integrating and propagating core attributes and beliefs (though with some variation and conflict with peripherals).
Yet, within the Holy Scriptures of predecessor Babylonian, Ugarit and Canaanite, and early Israelite (Israel - meaning "may El [the God] preserve") religions/societies/cultures, the evidence points to the evolution and growth in the belief of the monothesitic Yahweh Deity from a polytheistic foundation of the El (the Father God/God Most High) God pantheon. Yahweh (one of many sons of El) was a subordinate local God whom, through a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism), was elevated from polytheism to henotheism (a monolatry for Yahweh; Yahweh is in charge, there are other Gods to worship) to an aggressive monolatrist polytheistic belief (Yahweh is the most important God, there exists other Gods but worship of these other Gods is to be actively rejected) to, finally, a monotheistic belief system (there is and, somehow, always has been, only Yahweh) as documented in the revealed holy scriptures of these religions and cultures that directly influenced and/or became the Biblical Israelites.
Here are some physical archeological and linguistic anthropological evidential sources, to varying levels of scholarship, documenting the development and growth of monotheistic Yahwehism/Allahism from a historical essential polytheistic origin and foundation of revealed holy scripture to the monotheism of early Biblical Israelites:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
The failure of the claim of monotheism (before even considering the various claim of Trinitarianism that many Christian sects claim) based upon the necessary precedents required in the Abrahamic Religions as a source of refutation, negates the trueness claim of Christianity.
OP, if you get specific arguments for Christianity as having a credible trueness that you cannot address - consider asking for an extension till the next day and present the argument(s) in this debate subreddit as a new post. Post in favor of the argument. Atheists will (likely) rip it apart.
Also - here are a number of argument for/against God(s) with criticism.
Ooo, you have no idea.
In reality there are MANY gods in the bible that were worshipped by the Isra - EL - ites, which were eventually cobbled together into some sort of "one god". They finally settled upon a WAR god - the YHWH which is probably more correctly pronounced "Yahweh".
First, about those other gods.
The Israelites either were originally Canaanite (Phoenician), were the poorest classes associated with the Canaanite culture (before it crashed at the end of the Bronze Age), or were a tribal group enslaved by the Canaanites who used the Bronze-Age collapse as an opportunity to take over some Canaanite lands.
https://phoenicia.org/Canaanite-Origin-God-Israelites.html
The Canaanite god EL (the supreme god of the polytheist Canaanites/Phoenicians) was eventually arrogated by the Isra - EL - ites and later on [edit] his characteristics were added to their supposedly "one" war god.
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
They also borrowed characteristics from Baal and at least one goddess, adding those into their war god, too.
This book goes into the ways in which the Israelites borrowed and plagiarized their beliefs from earlier polytheist cultures. It even has bible verses you can look up (but use a REAL bible, I'd suggest the "Names of God" bible instead of anything the WT puts out):
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
And speaking of the "Names of God" bible, biblegateway has an online version that I often use:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NOG
I love it because it uses the various gods names from the oldest available sources. In other ways it's a decent but not exceptional bible. For example, at Isaiah 40: 22 it uses the modern viewpoint instead of sticking to a more accurate translation:
>God is enthroned above the earth,and those who live on it are like grasshoppers.
Older translations (done before humanity gained the ability to fly) show that as UPON the earth, as in the 1599 Geneva Bible:
>He sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers,
And the Darby translation, the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition, the Authorized King James version, and especially the Wycliffe translation:
>Which sitteth on the compass of [the] earth, and the dwellers thereof be as locusts;
So the Watchtower Society isn't the only group mistranslating the bible in efforts to shore up the supposedly scientific accuracy of the bible.
You might also find this video interesting, and the Yale Bible course on YouTube, too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
P.S. Check out Deuteronomy 32: 8 in the Names of God bible...
Considering that the bible was written by Middle Eastern men with a mentality that came uncomfortably close to the mentalities of the modern ISIS or ISUL movement, no surprise that their god - their war god, that is - would be male.
I think you might enjoy these two books:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
There is so much more information beyond those books about the REAL origins of the bible. Those should get you started, though.
Edit to add this link that you might also find interesting: https://www.ancient.eu/article/623/women-in-ancient-egypt/
You should read a book that deals with the actual history of the religion, like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080283972X
Stop making stuff up.
> Atheists, if you die and their is a god, whichever, what will you do?
Implicit in this question is that upon death that some part of the "I" exists in a fashion that allows the "I" to cognitively recognize and formulate new beliefs/accept new factual propositions concerning the existence of a God(s). Not all God constructs are linked to this mind-body dualism, cognitively aware after-death life. Additionally, there are mind-body dualist constructs that do not require a God(s). Finally, this "what if" God(s) must make it-self known to the "I" of the person to allow this gain of knowledge - which is also not a claim make of all Gods.
So it seems that you have a specific God(s) in mind - even though you did not identify which God(s).
> Accept your fate or argue?
And this question shows a presuppositional stance that there is some consequential fate (continued existence of the "I" in some form/realm, or the "I" is dis-incorporated/annihilated) to be experiences in the afterdeath life. Again, a sign that a specific God(s) or God(s) construct has been selected - but not stated.
So which God(s)?
If a generic intervening God that has made it's presence known credibly in the postulated (but currently non-evidential) afterdeath life [but, for <armwaving> reason, failed to be credible extant whilst the person is still alive], then I would like to think I would accept the existence of God(s) and go the way of the protagonist, Murray Templeton, in the short story by Issac Asimov, entitled "The Last Answer." Spoiler - nope. No spoiler! heh. You will have to read the story.
If, using the self-selected flair as a guide (i.e., Mulsim-Sunni), the God in question is the God Yahweh/Allah. In which case, I would implore the God YHWH to transfer me to YHWH's literal Father, The God El, the Father God/God Most High. And if such an audience is granted, then pledge my allegiance and worship to El and ask for the boon of working within the realm of the Gods to remove the fallacy of monotheistic Yahwism/Allahism from the world of the living, as well as taking the God YHWH/Allah to judgement for the reprehensible morality decreed by this God which has resulted in egregious harm and pain & suffering for billions of humans.
Would you like to know more on the essential polytheistic origin of the God Yahweh with evolution into a monotheism? And how this monotheistic claim grew out of it's essential polytheism (a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism) of the many Gods into a claim of only [and always] one God)?
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day * God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods? * Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
Some potential additional references (which are on my "To Read" list)....
- Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms
- Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism
- J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism
- John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan
- Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
Note: Concerning Karen Armstrong's, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, a criticism of the book that I have received (and have not yet reread the relevant sections of the book), is that "armstrong spends about half a chapter on this particular topic, and in my opinion, doesn't do a very good job of it. she does stuff like assume that abraham was a real person, and anachronistically apply later theology as if it was some indicative of earlier theology -- late first temple yahweh had aspects of a war god, so early yahweh must have as well. and that just doesn't follow at all."
Great list! I'm going to check some of those out.
I would also suggest these (preview links on Amazon but I'm not touting Amazon as the place to purchase...)
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
https://www.amazon.com/Origins-Biblical-Monotheism-Polytheistic-Background/dp/0195167686
https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
Anything by the late Samuel Noah Kramer (leading Sumerologist).
The Early History of God - Yahweh and the Other Gods of Ancient Israel: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
My review of another one of his books: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/5dvnsy/the_origins_of_biblical_monotheism_israels/
Did God Have a Wife?: https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
You might want to check this one out from a library:
https://www.amazon.com/King-Manasseh-Child-Sacrifice-Alttestamentliche/dp/3110179946
Realizing that Yahweh, the god of the bible, began as the Canaanite god of war until the Israelites leveled him up to "the one true god".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
From there, you begin to realize that there is an actual history to how this "god" came to be. It's quite illuminating.
Basically, reading this.
>[u/BereanThrowaway] My first guess is it contains proof the Israelite people have a different chronology to what the bOrg present.
Much more than that.
As u/Meganekko_85 said, "about the Israelite's true religious origins...."
This book:
>The Early History of God - Mark S. Smith
Free preview on Amazon <strong>here</strong>
That book goes through the bible (primarily Old Testament) showing (often from the bible itself) that the Israelites were far more polytheistic or monolatrous than most Christians realize.
I would also recommend his book <strong>The Origins of Biblical Monotheism</strong> too.
I didn't see William G. Dever's books on this list, but his book <strong>Did God Have a Wife?</strong> is an interesting read, demonstrating how archaeology in the Middle East shows a decidedly different picture of biblical Israel/Judah than the one the bible writers chose to present.
In other words, the bible is as thoroughly PAGAN as the other religions/polytheistic nations it tried to condemn & destroy.
It's going to be an up-and-down process. One day she'll be more open, then the next day (especially if she's having a rough day or is under some form of ongoing stress or pressure - or love-bombing) she may close down again.
You've heard this from other posters, but go slow, let her talk if/when she ever is in the mood to talk about the JWs, if/when she ever says anything against the JWs or WT Society, just listen, don't jump on it as if that moment is going to set her free.
It's like erosion. Slow, steady, gradual - but it wears away mountains.
You might want to take up something like meditation, steady exercise, research into a subject that interests you (like the origins of the bible), that will help you to take your mind off of the situation.
About the origins of the bible:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
https://www.amazon.com/Origins-Biblical-Monotheism-Polytheistic-Background/dp/0195167686
https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
https://www.amazon.com/Were-Early-Israelites-Where-They/dp/0802844162
Psst... You may be able to get cheaper used versions from alibris or abebooks...
Yeah, I figured that out around the age of 7 - 8 when (in Exodus 19: 16-19) "Jehovah" didn't even know what a volcanic eruption was...
Have you read any of Mark S. Smith's books? Like:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
Or more specifically:
https://www.amazon.com/Origins-Biblical-Monotheism-Polytheistic-Background/dp/0195167686
What did it for me was learning about the real origins of the bible. I began with these two books:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
The Yale series on YouTube about the bible is pretty good, too, although there's a lot of Christian apologetics in the first video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo-YL-lv3RY&list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
This is a GREAT overview of some of the information about the origins of the bible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
Also:
>Has anyone ever felt like this before? Did becoming active on exjw help you find closure?
Yes and yes.
Finding out what was really in the bible after I'd left was amazing. Finding out that the bible contains more than one god which is/was worshipped by them - & that the older god EL was actually a Canaanite deity who was 'father' over a polytheistic belief system, a 'family' of Canaanite gods - and that some of this was also incorporated DIRECTLY INTO THE BIBLE was amazing.
Finding out how little the Watchtower leaders actually know about the bible was PRICELESS, however. It meant that every single one of their bizarre, petty, micro-managing, snitty-old-chuch-lady rules were worthless - void, invalid.
[edit to add link to this book]:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
That book contains references to bible book, chapter & verse to see where the Israelites incorporated so-called 'pagan' beliefs into the bible. But you'd be better off using an online site where you can look up the verses in multiple bible translations: biblegateway.com & that site's "Names of God" translation, to name but one, when you're looking up scriptures.
From: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6qm5hz/why_am_i_so_intrigued_by_this_subreddit/dkyxyf3/
> Also, monolatrism was present in a number of belief systems throughout Europe and the Middle East. Its not a stepping stone to monotheism.
evidently it can be. monotheism is not necessarily the terminal state of religious evolution, and you don't necessarily have to have monotheism come from monolatrism. for instance, in greece, monotheism seems to have come from a philosophical tradition unrelated to the polytheistic/henotheistic/monolatrist cults. in egypt, monotheism very briefly existed rather suddenly when one pharaoh just rejected all the other gods, with no monolatrism in between.
however, in the ancient near east, there was already a tradition of monolatrism across just about every canaanite culture in the bronze age, with similar traditions in babylonia/sumeria/akkad. the israelites were monolatrist because the people they descended from were monolatrists.
> Now how did Judaism become monotheistic? Probably conquest and forced conversion.
that's, uh. i don't even know what you mean here. but it wasn't the answer to the question i was asking. of course there was probably some conquest involved, as one monolatrist cult became monotheist and struggled for power against the other cults. this may have happened under the reign of josiah of judah, shortly prior to the babylonian exile of 586 BCE. it's also possible that something similar happened around the return from exile a few years later, when the more persian influenced jewish aristocracy came back with some new ideas. this is the generally accepted model in academia. it's also possible that the babylonian invasion effectively eliminated the non-yahwist cults in judah. hard to say. but what nobody in academia doubts is that prior to being monotheist, the tradition that led to judaism was monolatrist, with yahweh as the patron god.
we don't doubt this because we have the stuff they wrote down about it.
> The obvious fact that they've directly stolen from their neighboring religions demonstrates the invalidity of their claims.
uh, okay. and? religious traditions borrow from others all the time. the israelites/judeans were canaanites, they have mythology similar to other canaanites, yes. not a surprise here. it's just that instead of worshiping hadad, or melqart, or hammon, whom other canaanite cultures called "baal" (lord), they worship yahweh, whom they call "adonai" (my lords).
> You continue to insinuate deeper meaning, as if the conclusions of monothiests are true and obvious, but if they are... prove it. Support your statement. Don't insinuate false knowledge.
i'm not sure what you think i'm arguing, but i suggest starting at the top again, and re-reading my posts. this time, don't assume i'm defending some particular religious tradition, and note that i say things like "we have no reason to" "take religious traditions at their word", and that i'm arguing for a relatively late shift towards monotheism around the time of persian contact.
> Prove this. Prove that they were yahwists.
kay.
>> אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר הוֹצֵאתִיךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים: לֹא-יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, עַל-פָּנָי.
>> we are yahweh your god, that brought you out of egypt, from the house of slavery. do not have yourself other gods in my presence.
the person who wrote this is a) a yahwist (see the name יְהוָה there?) and b) monolatrist (see how he says not to have other gods, rather than that there are no other gods?) this text was compiled around the time of the babylonian exile, 586 BCE, or shortly after from component sources that antedated the compilation. the components are probably in the range of 800-700 BCE for J and E, 600 BCE for D (probably written specifically for josiah), 500 BCE for P, and all over the place for R.
> You keep citing yahwist monolatrists, but that was never a thing.
they literally left us a book about yahweh and monolatrism. we know they existed.
> You're inventing history to satisfy your need for deeper meaning.
i am not!
> But it's a blatant fabrication, and when directly addressed, you simply refute a semantic misinterpretation as if that's a valid rebuttel instead of supporting your claim with evidence. All red flags.
would you rather i throw the books at you?
- https://smile.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
- https://smile.amazon.com/Origins-Biblical-Monotheism-Polytheistic-Background/dp/0195167686/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
> I genuinely don't understand how people can purport deeper meaning from these belief systems.
i... really don't care? that's not what i'm trying to do here. i was trying to present a model for how persian zoroastrianism influenced early judaism-proper, but you came in an objected to the fact that used the term "monolatrist yahwist" as if such a thing didn't exist, because... you think i'm looking for some deeper meaning here? defending christianity? what? i don't think you've read my posts to carefully, and i don't think you're at all familiar with iron age ii mythologies or cultic systems...
> The stories of the Abrahamics are shared by older polytheistc religions.
no, older monolatrist religions. the enuma elish, for instance, from babylonia, is a monolatrist text heralding marduk above the other gods. it has some things in common with the later israelite creation myth. the canaanite baal cycle is a monolatrist text heralding baal above the other gods. it has some things in common with several later biblical texts. we generally lump "monolatrism" in with "polytheism" in some discussions, so it's unclear why you're objecting to it above as it i meant "monotheism". the ancient greeks, for instance, were generally divided into different monolatrist cults, but we consider greek mythology in general polytheistic.
> To this day they are filled with numerous historical inaccuracies,
it's much worse than simple inaccuracies, i assure you. much of it is outright mythology.
There are several versions. You can get that in the King James version, & (I think) Common English or American Standard, too.
Hm. Just looked - could only find the "GW" version (which is what I have) & the King James version.
Here's something else you might want to be aware of, when reading all of the Christian apologetics as to why the YHWH god of the Israelites (Isra-EL-ites) ended up with so many different names in the bible:
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
And:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Canaanite_Religion
And I found these books quite revealing, too:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
> do you have a link to a "non-apostate"secular source that breaks down the origins of the Hebrew god like that? Or better yet, a book that discusses the topic?
Do I!
This first author, Mark S. Smith, has solid scholastic credentials:
>is an American biblical scholar and ancient historian who currently serves as Helena Professor of Old Testament Language and Exegesis at Princeton Theological Seminary and previously held the Skirball Chair of Bible and Ancient Near Eastern Studies in the Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies at New York University.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_S._Smith
And from: http://ptsem.edu/people/mark-s-smith
Here is the first one of his books that I've read - a preview is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
"The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel".
I really enjoyed that book, in large part because Smith references various bible scriptures where one can see what he's referring to - but one has to use more than the Watchtower Society's special translation of the bible. It was while reading his book that I became aware of the biblegateway website: https://www.biblegateway.com/
In addition to the "Names of God" bible translation, I also like the Amplified bible, the Complete Jewish bible, the Darby, the Wycliff, & a few others. But mostly I like being able to flick between about 40 different translations of the bible, staying on one particular bible book and chapter each time.
I've also recently finished his book "The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts". Here is my brief review of some of the high points of that book: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/5dvnsy/the_origins_of_biblical_monotheism_israels/
Another author whose book I've found informative is William G. Dever, who is:
>Dr. Dever is an American archaeologist specializing in the history of Israel and the Near East in Biblical times. He was Professor of Near Eastern Archaeology and Anthropology at the University of Arizona in Tucson from 1975 to 2002. He is a 1955 graduate of Milligan College. He received his Ph.D. from Harvard University in 1966. Dever was Director of the Harvard Semitic Museum-Hebrew Union College Excavations at Gezer from 1966-71, 1984 and 1990; Director of the dig at Khirbet el-Kôm and Jebel Qacaqir (West Bank) from 1967-71; Principal Investigator at Tell el-Hayyat excavations (Jordan) 1981-85, and Assistant Director, University of Arizona Expedition to Idalion, Cyprus, 1991, among other excavations. In retirement, Dever has become a frequent author on questions relating to the historicity of the Bible.
[Whoops, forgot to link source: https://judaic.arizona.edu/user/william-g-dever ...]
I've read his book: "Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel".
Also able to preview on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
I've also finally obtained "King Manasseh and Child Sacrifice - Biblical Distortions of Historical Realities" by Francesca Stavrakopoulou, whose credentials are:
>"Francesca Stavrakopoulou, born 3 October 1975, is an Oxford University-trained theologian,[1][2] and current Professor of Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion at the University of Exeter and head of its Department of Theology and Religion.[2] The main focus of her research is on the Hebrew bible,[1] and on Israelite and Judahite history and religion." From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesca_Stavrakopoulou
And from: http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/theology/staff/stavrakopoulou/
Preview of the book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/King-Manasseh-Child-Sacrifice-Alttestamentliche/dp/3110179946
That should get you started.
Here's an essay by Mark S. Smith entitled: Monotheism and the Redefinition of Divinity in Ancient Israel
His book, The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel, would be helpful as well.
I would strongly recommend these three books:
The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel: https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel: https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
The Wrong Way Home: Uncovering the Patterns of Cult Behavior in American Society: https://www.amazon.com/Wrong-Way-Home-Uncovering-Patterns/dp/0807029157
> I was thinking on how some have tried to get me to believe that no good experiences can come from "friendship with the world",
Yes, all JWs have been hammered so thoroughly for so long with that insanely wrong message that it's no surprise that was your first response.
>I'm heading back from break tomorrow so that'll be nice for a few weeks before the longer winter break.
Maybe pick up a few books to read during your winter break? I'm recommending these (usually available in used paperback for a few books - or at your library thru inter-library lending?) because these books give people an accurate view of the REAL origins of the bible:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
That link has a couple of other good books, too - The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts & Who Were the Early Israelites and Where Did They Come From? by William G. Dever - another excellent author who addresses the question of the bible's origins from the perspective of the archaeologist.
Then there's the works by Francesca Stavrakopoulou:
<em>Religious Diversity in Ancient Israel and Judah</em>
If you can get your hands on this book, it might be a mind-blowing read:
<em>King Manasseh and Child Sacrifice: Biblical Distortions of Historical Realities</em>
Please do further searches on the subjects. I also strongly recommend the following books:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
https://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
There are many more such books out there, but that should get you started...
I definitely recommend Mark S. Smith's <strong>The Early History of God - Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel</strong>
> The scripture itself DOES say what you are saying, i agree
If you're trying to pin down a critic of the Watchtower on what the Watchtower "bans" or "condemns", then good luck.
As we all know, the Watchtower Society flip-flops - even on life-or-death issues.
If MrSkeptic had stated that organ transplants are considered cannibalism, then his information would have been out-of-date - but still accurate at one point in time.
You're sinking into minutia, instead of keeping track of the big picture.
>Again i think you arent properly reading the text. It doesnt say anything about the bible. This is a history of God, not a history of the bible. A concept which predates the bible by a long shot. I actually own this book....
>He makes 10 points and at least 25% to 40% of them are flat out wrong or at least not backed up by anything demonstrable, how is that minor??
Speaking of which, Karen Armstrong's book has little in the way of scholarly work to back up her statements. Looking at the chapter notes in the back shows a preponderance of simple scriptural locations, references to Islamic philosophical works, references to such sources as Isaac Newton, and so on.
On the other hand, this book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Though originally copyrighted three years earlier than Armstrong's latest version, The Early History of God - Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel has much more information on the archaeological discoveries made pertaining to the Canaanites & the later Israelites. The author, Mark S. Smith, includes (in the 2002 issue) numerous references to the Ugaritic texts which predated the Israelite polytheism, monolatry & eventually monotheism.
Evid3nc3's video was produced in 2011. It is unfortunate that he was apparently unaware of the existence of Mark S. Smith's work at the time he made his video, for had he used Smith's book[s] rather than Armstrong, he would have had a much more interesting piece.
And Smith's book[s], among others, shows that your assumption here:
>This is a history of God, not a history of the bible. A concept which predates the bible by a long shot.
Is completely wrong.
The concept of a monolatrous deity first arose in ancient Egypt, not in Israel. I unfortunately don't have the time to get into all the details of why the idea that the Israelites came up with a single god is so very inaccurate, but if you'd read Smith's book, and also "Did God Have a Wife?" by William G. Dever, I think you'll understand that Israel's supposedly early monotheism is an illusion supported by bible apologists.
http://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
So, Armstrong's work is badly flawed, & yet I don't see you picking her works apart down into the minutia.
> I find this frustrating though, because in my search, I've found the JW's to be the most aligned with biblical principle.
Erm... I think you need to learn a LOT more about the real origins of the bible.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
http://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
This video has two errors - the bible is only around 3,000 years old, & the Hebrew form of writing doesn't date back much further than that, so the 4,000-year quest of Judaism shown in the opening overshoots the real history by a thousand years. Also, that 14,000-year-age he's claiming for the bible gods' origins is far too old, unless that length of time also includes all of the "pagan", polytheist religions that came before the bible, including the recently-discovered temples of Gobekli Tepe. Those temples are clearly polytheistic & likely show belief in animism, by the way.
Other than that, it's an excellent video:
About my "there were several gods worshipped in the bible" comment, that information came from this book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
That book is an absolute delight! The author, Mark S. Smith, lists his references (unlike Karen Armstrong's book, A History of God, which according to at least one reviewer doesn't quote her sources...)
In Smith's book the author also gives the reader bible book, chapter & verse to look up the various places in the bible where the older, polytheistic Canaanite gods were incorporated right into the bible.
Speaking of that, let me introduce you to bible gateway. I prefer it over bible hub because it feels easier to use. The bible gateway site also allows one to look up a scripture & then use the pull-down menu at the upper right to look at the same scripture in over 50 translations of the bible. They don't have the JW online bible among that lot (thankfully).
The "Names of God" translator went back to the very earliest sources in order to use the most ancient, most accurate name*S* of god in her translation. Here is that translation, starting out at Genesis 1: 1:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=NOG&search=Genesis%201
I will mention that the Names of God translation isn't very accurate when it comes to Isaiah 40: 22 & a few other verses, though. But that's the beauty of the bible gateway site - with a click of your mouse, you can look at many translations' rendering of whichever verse you choose (except for those translations that focus exclusively on just the Old or New Testament).
> It can't be proved either way...
Actually, it can be - at least in the case of the Abrahamic religions and their gods.
You'll notice I used the plural term there - god*SSSSSS*.
There are actually several gods - deities - incorporated into the bible's forms of worship. You won't learn about this from any Watchtower Society literature, because the Watchtower Society's bible "translations" fail to use the oldest manuscripts and information available nowadays. Plus, it's in their interest to keep average Jehovah's Witnesses from knowing that there are several gods incorporated into a supposedly "one" god, in the bible.
First, "Jehovah" is a mistranslation of the YHWH consonants with the vowels of the title "Elohim".
There are two "names" for the Hebrew god, right there. Although if one traces the origins of the name/term "Elohim" back to its CANAANITE roots, one finds that "Elohim" originally was PLURAL, in the Canaanite language & polytheistic belief system.
From: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Canaanite_Religion
>The Canaanite pantheon was conceived as a divine clan, headed by the supreme god El; the gods collectively made up the elohim.
Then there's the Canaanite patriarchal god "EL" - as in Isra-EL, Beth-EL, Samu-EL, Dani-EL, and so on.
The OLDER Canaanite patriarchal god EL is deeply incorporated into the Israelite/Hebrew culture - and the bible itself.
Also, "EL" and YHWH are NOT the same god...
From: http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
>First, the name Israel is not a Yahwistic name. El is the name of the deity invoked in the name Israel, which translates: “May El persevere.”2 This suggests that El was seen as the chief god in the formative years of Israel’s religious practices. In fact, the etiological story explaining the origin of the name Israel occurs in Genesis 35:9-15, where Jacob obtains this name through the blessing of El Shaddai, that is “El of the Mountain.”
>Second, there exist numerous parallels and similarities between descriptions and cultic terminology used for El in the Canaanite texts and those used for Yahweh in the biblical sources (see below). At some point, it is ascertained, the cultic worship of Yahweh must have absorbed that of El, through which means Yahweh assimilated both the imagery and epithets once used of El.
And honey, that's just the tip of the iceberg. You may want to check out these two books which come at this information from two different viewpoints:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
http://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
Which brings me to another part of your comment:
>but I find the argument that someone, an intelligent force, could have created this magnificent world we live in.
Maybe, but it certainly wasn't the all-of-3,000-years-old bible god YHWH.
The very oldest bits of bible verse ever found are barely 3,000 years old.
From: http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2010/01/06/The-Blessing-of-the-Silver-Scrolls.aspx#Article
>Excavations in Jerusalem in 1979–80 by Gabriel Barkay turned up two amulets dating from the late seventh century BC.1 They were found in the fourth of several burial caves he discovered on an escarpment known as Ketef Hinnom, which overlooks the Hinnom Valley (Gehenna) just opposite Mt. Zion. Each amulet contained a rolled-up sheet of silver which, when unrolled, revealed the Priestly Benediction inscribed on them. The exact Hebrew words (translated into English) are:
>May Yahweh bless you and keep you; May Yahweh cause his face to Shine upon you and grant you Peace (Coogan 1995: 45).
>Commented the late archaeologist Kathleen Kenyon:
>"This is now the earliest occurrence of a Biblical text in an extra-Biblical document, significantly predating the earliest of the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is also the oldest extra-Biblical reference to YHWH, the God of Israel (1987: 124; cf. King and Stager 2001: 306).
Notice that they are celebrating the fact that these bits of scripture date back to slightly AFTER 700 BC...
But there are many, many gods/goddesses/beliefs that are FAR older than the godSSS of the bible.
The Egyptian gods & goddesses are at least 1,000 years OLDER than the oldest Hebrew god[s].
From: http://www.theology101.org/egy/pyt/index.htm
>The Pyramid Texts were funerary inscriptions that were written on the walls of the early Ancient Egyptian pyramids at Sakkara. These date back to the fifth and sixth dynasties, approximately the years 2350-2175 B.C.E. However, because of extensive internal evidence, it is believed that they were composed much earlier, circa 3000 B.C.E. The Pyramid Texts are, therefore, essentially the oldest sacred texts known.
The goddess of the temples of Malta are at least 3,300 years OLDER than the oldest Hebrew god[s]. From: http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/132
>The Megalithic Temples of Malta (Ġgantija, Ħaġar Qim, Mnajdra, Skorba, Ta’ Ħaġrat and Tarxien) are prehistoric monumental buildings constructed during the 4th millennium BC and the 3rd millennium BC. They rank amongst the earliest free-standing stone buildings in the world and are remarkable for their diversity of form and decoration.
The deities of the temples at Gobekle Tepe are at least 7,000 years OLDER than the oldest Hebrew god[s]. From: http://gobeklitepe.info/
>Welcome to the presentation of the The World’s First Temple, Gobeklitepe … a pre-historic site, about 15 km away from the city of Sanliurfa, Southeastern Turkiye. What makes Gobeklitepe unique in its class is the date it was built, which is roughly twelve thousand years ago, circa 10,000 BC.
The deities of the artists who made the cave paintings in southern France & Spain are at least 9,000 to 27,000 years OLDER than the oldest Hebrew god[s]. From: http://www.experienceardeche.com/page/the-chauvet-cave/56
>The Chauvet cave is situated next to the famous Pont d'Arc, above the old river bed upon which the Ardèche flowed before the archway opened up and changed its course. It contains a vast array (more than 1000) and unique collection of cave paintings dated between 32,000 - 36,000 years old which makes them some of the oldest cave paintings in the world.
The deities or forms of worship (likely animism, at first) of the aboriginal Australians are at least 36,000 to 73,000 years OLDER than the oldest Hebrew god[s] - depending on which date one chooses for the migration of the archaic Indian or southern Asian populations into Australia. From: http://www.aboriginalculture.com.au/introduction.shtml
>Australia's Aboriginal culture probably represents the oldest surviving culture in the world, with the use of stone tool technology and painting with red ochre pigment dating back over 60,000 years.
Are you beginning to get the picture? Beginning to see how puny & of what recent origin the bible's godSSSS are? But wait, we have one more stop to make on the timeline of human (but not Homo sapien) religions...
Finally, going back to the Acheulean cultures of the Homo erectus, the Berekhat Ram female figurine (possibly a poppet - a small deity figure kept as a charm to ward off evil) dates back at least 230,000 years & may be as old as 700,000 years. From: http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/prehistoric/venus-of-berekhat-ram.htm
>The early Stone Age figurine of Berekhat Ram (Birkat Ram), discovered in hills north of Israel, is believed to be one of the oldest pieces of prehistoric sculpture known to archeology. Although initially highly controversial - as some paleontologists preferred to see it more as a product of natural erosion rather than a deliberate human act of creativity - its status now seems more secure following the discovery of a second similar and contemporaneous figurine - the Venus of Tan-Tan, in Morocco.... [bold & italics mine]
>The Venus of Berekhat Ram was created during the Acheulean culture of the Lower Paleolithic period of the old Stone Age, and has been dated to 230,000-700,000 BCE. The reason for the vagueness of its provenance is that it was found sandwiched between two layers of volcanic residue: an upper one dated about 230,000 BCE, and a lower one dated 700,000 BCE. This makes it (along with the effigy of Tan-Tan) the oldest example of mobiliary art ever recorded, and remarkably, it means that it predated Neanderthal man, and was created by an earlier hominid like Homo erectus.
So, the claim that the recently-generated Abrahamic "gods" could have had ANYTHING to do with the origins of the 4.5 billion year old earth & slightly older solar system (let alone the 12.8 billion year old universe) is laughable in the extreme.
[edit to fix stuff!]
>Well, have you actually read War and Peace in Russian? Then your argument just fell fell apart. The nuance in good literature can have vastly different meanings, depending on the reader.
Whether someone reads it in English or Russian, the story is the same and so are the themes. They don't change just because the language is different.
>Let’s review a few reasons why that’s ridiculous! At least 194 Jews and people of half- or three-quarters-Jewish ancestry have been awarded the Nobel Prize,1 accounting for 22% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2015.
How many grew up in a shtetl? How many were religious? Why don't you have any Jewish Nobel Prize winners coming out of the pale of settlement?
Religion literally has nothing to do with intelligence, unless it is to retard it. You also seem to have an obsession with race/ethnicity, two concepts that literally don't make any sense biologically. We're all homo sapiens sapiens As Richard Feynman put it, "To select, for approbation the peculiar elements that come from some supposedly Jewish heredity is to open the door to all kinds of nonsense on racial theory."
>Shabbat, a day of rest – origin – yes, the Jews.
?
People today get the weekend off (i.e. two days off), weekend being a British concept. Even that has been found to be insufficient though, as 50 hour work weeks are deemed to be too much by many psychologists and sociologists and lead to a decrease in productivity.
But what does that have to do with anything though? Also, where do you see a culture that hasn't had some sort of impact one way or another? All cultures do, because that's how cultures work, they're effusive.
>Washing hands to avoid disease – a practice started a long, long time ago.
The Celts practiced the same thing, using soap. Again though, what does hygiene have to do with anything? Especially as hygiene practices varied worldwide back then.
>Biblehub is a Christian site, btw.
With translations from numerous publications that are translated by numerous philologists in turn. Besides, the other two aren't and lo and behold, their translations are the same.
>And to liken Judaism to a cult? I have no problem with what you think about Scientology and the Mormons, but you have some huge problem in your cerebral connections to associate Judaism with a cult.
How is Judaism NOT a cult? It literally started off as a cult of Yahweh. Here are some books and papers you can read on the matter:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/BBRMonotheism.pdf
http://scholarship.claremont.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=pomona_theses
This isn't even mentioning that Judaism today exhibits many cult characteristics. There are elitist tendencies (chosen ones); proscribed and identifiable clothing; barring of intermarriages with those outside of the group; kashrut laws encouraging members to only mingle with other in-group members; an elite class charged with authority and leadership within the group (rabbis); demands of immoral actions such as genital mutilation; a closed social system that frowns upon any deviation; end-time revelation; concept of mesirah; etc.
Judaism is a cult just as every other religion is.
>Oh, by the way, don’t bother to reply, I tire of your weak, wandering responses,
ok
Wellllll... The bible itself...
And these two books:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
http://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
I haven't gotten to read any of those authors' other books, but I think it would be a good idea to read them, too.
The bible itself is largely drawn from "pagan" - Canaanite polytheist sources, with a good deal of Babylonian & Persian influences tossed in, to boot.
Check out this book - it gives the reader bible book, chapter & verse to look up (in a normal bible, that is) where you can often find traces of the earlier, polytheist beliefs preserved in the bible:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
You may also want to use the biblegateway site to look up bible verses, as I've found it very convenient & easy to switch from one translation to another to see how different translations vary. I especially like the "Names of God" translation - did you know that in the original texts, there are at least FIVE different names for the "god" (many gods, actually) of the bible?
There's EL, Elohim (that's actually a term for a family of Canaanite gods), El Elyon, El Shaddai or Shadday, & Yahweh.
Genesis chapter 1 at Bible Gateway - Names of God translation:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=NOG&search=Genesis%201
Research the origins of the bible itself. The bible was written during the early Near Eastern IRON AGE (around 1,000 BC - which makes the bible only 3,000 years old, at best) - by Middle Eastern men.
I'd recommend these two books, to begin with:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
That book is a readable preview. The author Mark S. Smith is a professor of Bible & Ancient Near Eastern Studies at NYU. He not only cites references, he also gives bible scriptures, chapter & verse, where one can see bits of the early "pagan" origins of the Israelites' religions & bible.
This next book is written by Syro-Palestinian archaeologist William G. Dever, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Archeology and Anthropology at the University of Arizona.
http://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
These are both excellent books, but they're just the beginning. There are many more avenues of research into the origins of the bible - the Canaanite Ugaritic texts, the Zoroastrian influences upon the Christian religion, & more.
> But all the fulfilled prophecy is enough to evidence that the Tanakh writings are set apart and above other scriptures, because no other scriptures have detailed prophecies like the scriptures concerning YHWH.
And this list of fulfilled prophecies is located where?
> Now, Sumerians did have law that is similar to the 10 commandments (Sumer/Jewish). But it isn't surprising YHWH would model a set of laws after what the people were accustomed to from other nations. YHWH did this with the Hebrew sanctuary as well, which was similar to rites and rituals other nations observed.
af505, since you accept the precedent that older narratives related to YHWH have validity (as you used this precedent in the above argument), then I expect that you also accept that Yahweh is part of the large polytheistic El (Father God/God Most High) pantheon and YHWH is a subordinate God (to El) and one of 70 (literal) sons of El, as the history of YHWH that precedes the Torah (and is not fully redacted from the Torah, and other later narratives) show a model of YWHW as this secondary God (one of many many Gods).
Sources:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
Some potential additional references (which I have not yet got around to checking out)....
Diana Vikander Edelman - The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms;
Jan Assmann - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel and the Rise of Monotheism;
J. C. deMoor - The Rise of Yahwism: The Roots of Israelite Monotheism;
John Day - Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan;
Andre Lemaire, et. al. - The Birth of Monotheism: The Rise and Disappearance of Yahwism
I don't know if this would help, but...
You might want to get some books that explain the REAL origins of the bible:
This one is written by a professor - the Skirball Professor of Bible and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at New York University, Mark S. Smith. You know, someone with an actual education in the subject of the bible's origins... [wicked wink!]
All these amazon links allow you to preview parts of the book.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Oh, and he cites bible scriptures that you can look up, to see the various points he's making - although you may want to used biblegateway dot com so you can read the verses in different bible translations, for a more rounded picture of what is really being said. My favorite is the "Names of God" translation: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NOG
After looking at that bible translation, you might want to take a look at this article, too:
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
Anyway, here are some more books that might help you to get a better grasp on the bible's real origins - and hopefully - HOPEFULLY, your parents might listen to some of this information - if you use the Socratic questioning method...
http://www.amazon.com/The-Origins-Biblical-Monotheism-Polytheistic/dp/0195167686
http://www.amazon.com/Stories-Ancient-Canaan-Second-Edition/dp/0664232426
http://www.amazon.com/The-Rise-Ancient-Israel-Smithsonian/dp/1880317079
Yes, definitely. But as others have pointed out, the "Zeitgeist" is not a good source.
Try these instead:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
And there's plenty more scholarly works where those came from.
> The more I learned, the more turned off to Christianity I became.
That's the usual course for people who stop & actually read what's in the bible - or have time to think about what's in there, without someone filtering it for them.
But the reason I asked, is because I was going to recommend this book - & you can glance into the book in this preview. I learned a very great deal about the polytheistic origins of the bible from this - no, make that, these - books:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
These books would be primarily for you - don't bother trying to explain to your parents what you'll learn here. They would never accept the commentary of archaeologists or biblical scholars, if it opposes their particular belief system.
Research into origins, man - something you ought to try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Bible_University
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Perhaps you would want to look into the real origins of the bible itself?
The very oldest bits of bible verse that they've found (so far) are only around 3,000 years old:
The bible contains many contradictions:
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
http://www.viewdocsonline.com/document/4hu5ly
The bible writers worshipped more than one god:
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/are-yahweh-and-el-the-same-god/
This next link is to a book for sale on Amazon, but you can look at a preview of the book thru this link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080283972X?redirect=true&ref_=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i2
And that's probably enough for you to look at, for now.
I hope the information available in the above-listed websites will help you.
>I have the convention soon so please pity me and please give me suggestions for good books to read on my tablet...
Dunno if you can get these on your tablet, but these are excellent reads - the first one even gives bible scriptures to look up within which are vestiges of the older polytheistic Canaanite religion that preceded the bible:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
>also if i keep hearing that jw.org is the most translated website in the world, i'm going to shoot myself.
Huh. Must explain why they need $1 million to $2 million per regional translation office...
>let's make a website that can be translated in more languages, even dead languages like Latin...
Maybe check out other bible websites like bible gateway or bible hub, or a website hosting Shakespeare's works or the stories of Sherlock Holmes...
>A go bag is a bag with all the survival gear you need to keep yourself safe in the aftermath of a natural disaster.
Yeaaaaaahhhh... I'm sure a puny little bag is going to help in case the Yellowstone super-volcano erupts, or Mt. Ranier sends a lahar down onto Seattle, or another tsunami strikes the Indian Ocean, or the Pacific Ocean, or the Atlantic.
> IMO JW's are not a "cult" in my eyes (just another religion), but I'll end my arguments since I still believe in God and you are an outspoken Athiest. That's not to say that I think less of you, I respect your choice to have your own belief...
Atheism isn't a "belief"; it's more accurately a realization that beliefs & faith in deities have no factual foundation.
Your viewpoints are based upon a very narrow frame of reference. Try reading these books (written by REAL bible scholars) about the origins of the bible:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
As to whether or not you're in a cult - er, the Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, you may want to check out this book - & the author's other books, too, as he was sucked into the Moonies cult for 5 years & ought to know a cult when he sees one:
Here are some sources to which /u/arachnophilia alluded.
copy/paste....
An area that I am interested in is the origin story of Yahweh and Yahweh worship that precedes, and leads to, the Torah. If you are interested, the following are some references on the convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism) of the large polytheistic God Pantheon(s) into to a henotheism Yahwehism (YHWH is a tribal God that is in charge, there are other Gods to worship) to an aggressive monolatrist polytheistic belief (YHWH is the most important God, there exists other Gods but worship of these other Gods is to be actively rejected) to, finally, a monotheistic belief system (there is and, somehow, always has been, only YHWH) which occurred around the Babylonian exile (586-539 BC) and postexilic period.
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
I don't know if I can help you; I spotted the very human origins of the bible itself when I was around 7 - 8 years old, & had I not been beaten into the cult, I would have become an atheist around that time. I recognized Exodus 19: 16-19 as a decent description of an erupting volcano - & I also realized that neither the Israelites NOR THEIR GOD knew what it was!!
Exodus 19: 16-19 [Watchtower Society bible]
>On the morning of the third day, there was thunder and lightning, and there was a heavy cloud on the mountain and a very loud sound of a horn, and all the people in the camp began to tremble. 17 Moses now brought the people out of the camp to meet the true God, and they took their place at the base of the mountain. 18 Mount Sinai smoked all over, because Jehovah came down upon it in fire; and its smoke was rising like the smoke of a kiln, and the whole mountain was trembling violently. 19 As the sound of the horn grew louder and louder, Moses spoke, and the voice of the true God answered him.
Look at all the symptoms of a volcanic eruption contained therein - thunder & lightning in a heavy cloud (volcanic ash clouds produce plenty of lightning), loud sound of a 'horn' (volcanic gases rushing out of the eruptive vent make a LOT of noise!), the mountain "smoked all over" with "fire" (not their god, btw), the smoke rose like the smoke of a kiln (thick, black, vertical)...
And the most significant clue of all, that the "whole mountain was trembling violently" - which is a DEAD giveaway of a volcanic eruption - those are called "harmonic tremors", generated by the upwards movement of the magma within the chamber beneath the volcano, & the release of the aforementioned volcanic gases.
In addition to that information, perhaps these will help...
http://www.bigmamaearthacademy.org/learning-center/portal/volcanoes-super-volcanoes/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtI-lSvS028
By the way, the nation of Israel straddled the "Dead Sea Transform", which is a very geologically active area:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Transform
There's also the Golan Heights, in north-eastern Israel & western Syria, which is a volcanic plateau that is sometimes considered to be part of the greater Harrat Ash Shaam volcanic field in Syria, Jordan & Saudi Arabia
http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/golan-heights.html
Going beyond that, these books (written by REAL bible scholars & archaeologists) do far more to explain the origins of the bible itself, especially the Old Testament, than anything the Watchtower Society has ever put out:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Uhm, why feel the need to put yourself into a slot? You've probably only been out for a few months - years?
Your knowledge will increase & your belief system will evolve. Don't be in such a hurry to slap a label onto yourself.
If you're interested in learning about evolution, there are many excellent sources out there.
If you're interested in learning what the real origins of the bible are (i.e. pagan Canaanite, heavily influenced by Egyptian theology, focused on the political goals of the elite of Jerusalem), there are also many excellent books out there, like:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X
Sorry for the lateness of my reply.
> and I'm researching and digging if Christianity's "monotheism" is actually justified or if it's just a huge mistake.
"Christianity's "monotheism"" - I am guessing that you are referring to the doctrine of the Trinity, while maintaining the claim of monotheism, endorsed by many Christian sects. The history of this doctrine is an interesting application of theologically apologetics.
But how about early monotheism of YHWH/Yahweh/Allah? That of the construct of monotheism by the proto- and early Israelites (i.e., the God of Abrahamic is, and always has been, the only God), which has carried over into the claims of monotheism of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. An area that I am interested in (as a hobbyist) is the origin story of Yahweh and Yahweh worship that precedes, and leads to, the Torah. If you are interested some references on the growth of monotheistic Yahwehism from a historical polytheistic foundation to the development of the henotheism/monolatry, and then monotheism of early Biblical Israelites:
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
- Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies) by John Day
- God in Translation: Deities in Cross-Cultural Discourse in the Biblical World by Mark S. Smith
While limited to starting with the Hebrew Bible as a basis, and not addressing much pre-Torah scripture related to Yahweh, the following takes a look at:
- Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, by Michael S. Heiser, PhD
While a College Senior Thesis (and the perception therefore of a less credible scholarly/appeal to authority level), the following is a good source of other reference material:
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah by Andrew Halladay
Some of the on-line summaries/arguments which related to the above argument/position are:
- Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods?
- Ugarit and the Bible
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel By David Steinberg
- The evolution of God
A recent discussion in /r/AcademicBiblical, Was Yaweh originally a member of a pre-Judaic pantheon of gods?, by /u/koine_lingua, also addresses the origin of YHWH.
>Judaism didn't "merge" different gods and goddesses, they rejected them. Christianity merged them in the New Testament, but they eliminated the divinity of the goddess.
The Israelites were polytheistic at first but over time became more monotheistic. You still find traces of polytheism in the bible. In ancient Egyptian religion the creator uses the word or speech to bring everything into existence. This word or speech was called Hu by the Egyptians and was considered a deity. In Genesis you find god creating everything using the word or speech but instead of the word or speech being a god like in ancient Egyptian religion it's just Yahweh. So the Israelites just had Yahweh taking over the roles other gods had in pagan religions. Yahweh also had a Goddess consort called Asherah. This book is about the polytheism of the Israelites.
As for Mary, the idea of a mortal woman being impregnated by a god is something you find in pagan religions. It represents spirit(the god) "impregnating" matter(the woman). Gender in religion/mythology is symbolic for the two forces that the divine had to split itself into in order to "create" life.
>Divine femininity was downplayed due to the subjugation of women. Gender inequality is a feature, not a bug, of Abrahamic religion. Beginning with Adam and Eve, the Old Testament firmly established an ontological foundation for women's second class citizenship: Men were subservient to God, and women were subservient to men. The patriarchal hierarchy was upheld in the New Testament, notably by the treatment of Mary (both Theotokos and Magdalene), the exclusion of certain Gnostic gospels, and the inclusion of misogynist social commentary from Peter and others.
>I agree that the divine isn't male or female like humans. But religion is primarily a tool for social control. A rise in religiosity is always accompanied by the threat of fundamentalism, and all it takes is a couple years of violence and chaos to a century of legal and social progress. As a woman, supporting the resurgence of Christianity would make me complicit in my own dehumanization.
I completely agree with all of this.
> Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong
I would also suggest "The Early History of God - Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel" by Mark S. Smith:
http://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X
And his other books - I'm reading his book "The Origins of Biblical Monotheism" right now, about how the much earlier Ugaritic texts influenced bible writers:
http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Biblical-Monotheism-Polytheistic-Background/dp/0195167686
Also "Did God Have a Wife?" by William G. Dever:
http://www.amazon.com/Did-God-Have-Wife-Archaeology/dp/0802863949
> I'm sure that I haven't covered all the bases for why someone might be a gnostic atheist, so if you have other grounds for that belief, I'd be happy to discuss them too!
You may have missed 'knowledge based upon evidence' as a reason to support gnostic atheism.
I am a gnostic atheist towards the monotheistic God of Islam, Christianity and Judaism, because I know (have knowledge of), to a high degree of reliably, that the monotheistic belief in Allah/Yahweh is based upon a foundation of a revealed polytheistic Pantheon of Gods; and as such the foundational belief of monotheistic Yahwehism (for Judaism, Christianity and Islam) is false and all the theistic belief that is built upon that foundation is also false/untrue.
A foundational belief in the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) is that Allah, God, or Yahweh/YHWH, is the only true revealed God. As this is also the core of the Tanakh (Judaism), Bible (Christianity), and Qur'an/Koran (Islam); questions concerning the source of, and the validity of, this monotheistic Deity would raises significant doubt as to the Holy Book's validity as the word of God/Yahweh/Allah. Yet, within the Holy Scriptures of predecessor Ugarit and Canaanite, and early Israelite religions/societies/cultures, the evidence points to the growth in the belief of the monothesitic Yahweh God from a polytheistic foundation of the El God pantheon in the ancient Ugarits and Canaanites who became the early Israelites. Yahweh (son of El, the Father God) was a subordinate fertility/rain/warrior local desert God whom, through a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism), was elevated to a monolatry and then to a monotheistic Deity.
Evidential sources related to the development and growth of Allahism/Yahwehism:
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel
- The evolution of God
- Ugarit and the Bible
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah - PDF warning
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
TL;DR Yahweh/Allah/God is claimed to be the only true God (ex., “There is no god but Allah”/“You shall have no other gods before Me"), yet significant physical archeological and linguistic anthropological evidence documents the doctrinal growth of Yahweh/Allah from a subordinate rain/fertility/warrior Deity in a large polytheistic pantheon of revealed and worshiped Deities into a politically and militarily motivated monotheistic Deity belief system. In other words, the evidence points to monotheistic Yahwehism/Allahism as a human-made concept and not as a self-revealed monotheistic Deity. As such, the attributed monotheism of Yahweh, as the prime foundation for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, is so inherently flawed that these religions are rendered demonstrably invalid.
>Again, doesn't logically follow. Things exist outside of observable parameters. You are also creating a contingency whereby something only exists if humans possess the means to observe and measure it.
We can only know what we can measure. It's not like only things we can observe exist, it's that we can only know things we can observe exist.
>The faculties of your mind aren't proven. The veracity of logic as an independent entity is not proven. The precursor to the big bang is not proven. In fact...if we use the word proven...much of science in a cosmological sense is not proven. We have observations and testable predictions. But we can't watch neutrinos and we can't control light in a significant sense.
You are correct that not everything is 100% proven, but what is known now has more footing than God, since other debates rarely turn into "nothing can be proved" as much as this one.
>I'll debate with someone who believes in them if I come across them. But I won't rule out anything. That would make me ignorant.
Being open-minded and pretending every silly superstition could be true are different things.
>That's actually not the case at all. Few people believe that leprechauns were real because they were made for children stories as were reindeer. No one was going: "Oh you know what...I think there actually is a guy at the north pole and this is what he does."
But children actually believe those things. It's no different with God. Children are more likely to believe things authority figures tell them.
>Quetzalcoatl and other such deities are often contingencies upon the survival of a specific tribe of people. The people fade, the deity fades. That doesn't actually signify a reduction in the believability of any independent faith.
It doesn't, but you've more or less nailed an important part of why people make up gods. They do it for a sense of control over things that scare them. Tlaloc was an important god for the Aztecs, who were in central Mexico, and he controlled rain. God was originally a Canaanite warrior god who gained prominence when Israel was under threat of being conquered. It's cool to see how an eternal god's characteristics change over time.
>You are great at making claims like this...but it honestly just makes you sound like a fool. I'm putting for great effort in giving examples of how philosophy and doubt work and you're trying to using false equivalence to prove a point.
You're turning this into "how can we know anything?" because reason doesn't support your God. It happens all the time when I debate Christians. "Well, based on what we know, there's no reason to believe there's a God." "But we don't know anything!"
It's ironic how you try to discount reason using reason.
>Can you be more specific. I could say: "My favorite part of atheism is how they ignore all the evidence and just do what they do because they love sin."
Just reading about God from when he was just a little war god before there was even a Torah, to Judaism, to Christianity, to Islam, to The Reformation, and Mormonism. The God becomes very different throughout that time and people use "people just didn't see him clearly enough" as an excuse.
>Again, you aren't even reading what I'm writing...go back and read what I said prior to this.
I read it. It all follows the "reason could be wrong" thing.
>You're using circular reasoning to prove your point?
Not at all. I'm saying we know things because we've observed them, and experienced them, and miracles tend to be hard to distinguish from lies. If God's real and omnipotent, he could do a myriad of unmistakeable things that would make people believe. Instead, an omnipotent deity who wants people to believe in him is resorting to faith.
>I'm not even defending God at this point. I'm questioning your mind's capabilities.
Your skepticism gets to the point of questioning reason itself with your own religion?
>So everything you observe could be a fiction fabricated by your mind except that there is no God? ...really?
The point I was making was that we can discover real things with limited senses through the help of tools and other perspectives.
>And you ignored it then too.
Because it's a tired argument. When debating a Christian, they never assert scientific evidence for their deity. It turns into a "how can we know anything at all? Logic could be wrong. You could be totally crazy and your reality could be totally off." debate. Ironically, they'll get skeptical to the point of solipsism, and I'm pretty sure it's to put everything on even-footing with their deity in terms of reason. If someone says there's no proof of God, and you can't counter that, I guess the only option is to argue that there's no proof of anything.
>It isn't about perfection. To the delusional man in the psych word all existence backs his claim. To you...could it not be...that because your delusional all evidence backs yours?
That's possible, just as much for you as it is for me.
Isn't it interesting how I assert that it's more reasonable to not believe there's a god due to lack of evidence, and the counter-argument consists of "you could be crazy."? Why not empirical evidence of this deity?
> It's a bold statement of yours to say such a large conclusion from just an analysis. So far, all of my arguments had some what legitimacy in psychological fields. However, I would love to see if any new conclusions do occur on this subject.
It's not a large conclusion if you read a bunch of mythologies and see the common themes with the gods. They control things people in certain times found important, which happened to be things humans knew they couldn't control, like weather. It's no big jump to say that it's an invented superstition out of helplessness.
>No. If you are talking about the Abrahamic God, or commonly just the God that we speak of today, you are wrong. Even from the beginning, he possessed numerous, numerous names. Everything was included in his entity. The name that God told Moses was YHWH, which is purposely unknown of its pronunciation, conveying infinite characteristics of God. He also called himself "I AM WHO I AM". On the other hand, other polytheistic religions label their gods with whatever attribute they are worshiped by, which tends to change here and there. This here, is a reason I personally believed polytheism is sort of "weak" in a sense but this is another topic.
The reason God has so many names is because they attributed other names to him after erasing the other ones. He was just a minor warrior deity before that. "God Most High" and "God Almighty" were names of other gods. The common conception of God's history is false and is the result of a cult of Yahweh erasing evidence of other gods. Ever wonder why they didn't allow religious imagery? They wanted people to only worship the war god because they thought that's why they were losing wars. Ever wonder why God is still sometimes depicted as an old man with a beard sitting on a throne? That was the god Israel is named after. Read this book.
>But I only spoke of morality in terms of the surrounding in which you grew up and know of. One that grew up in cannibalistic tribe will never know that eating another human being is immoral if he never finds another community in which cannibalism is seen such way. We are already biased in our thinking because we both know what is "good" or "bad" in English speaking countries.
Regardless of what different behaviors are socialized into a group, there's basic behaviors within groups that are common to all social animals. Sure, how people treat outsiders may vary, but if social animals didn't have certain functions within their groups like empathy, support, hierarchy, etc., they'd die out. I was saying that morality based on supernatural rewards is bad because it doesn't use other people as a reason to be good, but an imaginary reward, which flies in the face of the morality social animals have evolved and creates the potential for destructive conflict that no other social animal but us possesses.
> is God still not real?
JesusIsTruth, your username indicates a belief in Christianity, and therefore the belief in monotheistic Yahwehism (e.g., Yahweh is, and always has been, the one true creator God, thou shalt have no other gods before Yahweh). This belief is foundational to, and required for, all aspects of the Christian Faith. Let's examine this supposition in more detail.
A foundational belief in the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) is that Allah, God, or Yahweh/YHWH, is the only true revealed God. As this is also the core of the Tanakh (Judaism), Bible (Christianity), and Qur'an/Koran (Islam), questions concerning the source of, and the validity of, this monotheistic Deity raises significant doubt as to the Holy Book's validity as the word of God/Yahweh/Allah. Yet the evidence points to the growth in the belief of the monothesitic Yahweh God from a polytheistic foundation of the El God pantheon in the ancient Ugarits and Canaanites who became the early Israelites. Yahweh was a subordinate fertility/rain/warrior local desert God whom, through a process of convergence, differentiation and displacement (synthesis and syncretism), was elevated to a monolatry and then to a monotheistic Deity.
Online evidential sources related to the development and growth of Allahism/Yahwehism:
- Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel
- The evolution of God
- Ugarit and the Bible
- The Ascension of Yahweh: The Origins and Development of Israelite Monotheism from the Afrasan to Josiah - PDF warning
Other (off-line references - but if you search, you may find them online):
- The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel by Mark Smith
- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith
- A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong
- The Religion of Ancient Israel (Library of Ancient Israel) by Patrick D. Miller
- Religions of Ancient Israel: A Synthesis of Parallactic Approaches by Ziony Zevit
Please feel free to read and apply critical thought to the information presented to makeup your own mind.
Allah/Yahweh/God is claimed to be the only true God (ex., “There is no god but Allah.”), yet significant physical archeological and linguistic anthropological evidence documents the mythological growth of Allah/Yahweh from a subordinate rain/fertility/warrior Deity in a large polytheistic pantheon of revealed and worshiped Deities into a politically and militarily motivated monotheistic Deity belief system. In other words, the evidence points to monotheistic Allahism/Yahwehism as a human-made concept and not as a self-revealed monotheistic Deity.
TL;DR. Examine the polytheistic to monotheistic evolution of Yahweh. The foundational Faith principle of a monotheistic Creator Yahweh has real and evidential reasons to be doubted and rejected.
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