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The Hebrew Bible: A Translation with Commentary?
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Just going to plug Robert Alter's excellent (imo) translation and note on these verses. He has an even more nuanced take than the blah-blah-blah that conveys the nonsense of it in more hebrew terms. He translates this section as follows
>“7 And these, too, blundered through wine
and through strong drink went astray.
Priest and prophet blundered through strong drink,
were confounded through wine,
went astray through strong drink,
blundered with the seer,
juddered in judgment.
8 For all the tables were covered with vomit,
filth, with no space left.
9 To whom will they teach knowledge
and to whom will they convey lessons?—
to the milk-weaned,
to babes pulled from the breast?
10 For it is filth-pilth, filth-pilth,
vomit-momit, vomit-momit,
a little here, a little there.
11 For in a barbarous tongue
and in alien language
He shall speak to this people
12 to whom He said, “This is rest—leave it for the weary,
and this is repose,” and they did not want to listen.
13 And the word of the LORD became for them—
filth-pilth, filth-pilth,
vomit-momit, vomit-momit,
a little here, a little here.
So that they should walk and stumble backward,
and be broken, snared, and trapped.”
and his comment on the word choice
>“Wildly divergent interpretations have been proposed for these words. The literal sense would seem to be: “precept precept, line line.” But if precepts are at issue here, they are precepts that have been turned into gibberish by these drunkards. The phonetic kinship between tsaw, precept or command, and tsoʾah, filth or excrement, and between qaw, line, and qiʾ, vomit, is surely not accidental. The translation seeks to convey both this correspondence and the effect of gibberish.”
Highly recommend Robert Alters translation for all your Tanakh needs. He is an expert in ancient Hebrew, a professor at UC Berkley, and his commentary/context is fantastic.
To really understand the Tanakh you need the commentary to give you an idea of what was going on in the Era it was written.
OH hey! I got a question. Someone recommended me "The Hebrew Bible" translation with commentary by Robert Alter. I don't remember if this was you or not, I've had so many comments the past few days. Is this something you would recommend buying? I got the free sample and love it so far but I've only read chapter 1 of Genesis. Here's a link:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BN5HWWX/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?\_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
I really recommend it! His major intention (as I read him) is to illuminate the basic structure of the original text, so you really get a feel for the poetic and narrative forms/tropes these bronze age poets found powerful. Personally, I love thinking about texts that way: trying to see what the author is doing on an intellectual level. It's absolutely wild to me, being pointed to subtle linguistic effects crafted three thousand years ago that have retained the power to move a reader. Makes you think about just how hardwired language is in the brain.
The whole set is kinda expensive, but the second volume has the book of Job, which IMO is his best translation of the Hebrew Bible's most interesting book, for 10 bucks.
Sheesh, this was so late going up! Sorry about that, guys. Yesterday was kind of busy and then I fell asleep before getting it finished.
Sources in this entry:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.9?lang=eng#8
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/58.3?lang=eng#p1
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/25.4?lang=eng#p3
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.22?lang=eng#p21
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/moses/6.48?lang=eng#p47
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.8?lang=eng#p7
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/alma/12.23-24?lang=eng&clang=eng#p22
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/77.6-7?lang=eng#p5
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/128.20-21?lang=eng#p19
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/ot/gen/11.6-9?lang=eng#p5
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/1974/09/a-peaceful-heart?lang=eng
https://archive.org/details/improvementera4210unse/page/n21/mode/2up
https://thirdhour.org/blog/faith/lds-history/seer-stone-translation-tool/
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2000/04/the-creation?lang=eng
https://archive.org/details/conferencereport1916sa/page/n75/mode/2up?view=theater
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/death?lang=eng
https://archive.org/details/Doctrines-of-Salvation-volume-3-joseph-fielding-smith/page/n111/mode/2up
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/introduction?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/chronology?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bible-chron/old-testament?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bible-chron/introduction?lang=eng
http://starfoundation.nousphere.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/The-Earth-and-Man-Talmage..pdf
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/mass-extinction
https://debunking-cesletter.com/science-1/pre-adamites/
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Personages_who_appeared_to_him
https://byustudies.byu.edu/further-study-lesson/volume-5-chapter-13/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat
https://www.britannica.com/place/Chogha-Zanbil
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Esagila
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etemenanki
https://benspackman.com/2022/02/implicit-context-in-the-scriptures/#more-6423
https://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Bible-Translation-Commentary-ebook/dp/B07BN5HWWX
https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/EoM/id/5693
https://benspackman.com/2018/02/gospel-doctrine-lesson-6-moses-819-30-genesis-65-22-71-10/
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-john-taylor/chapter-9?lang=eng
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/truman-g-madsen/joseph-smith-doctrinal-development-nauvoo-era/
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_science/Global_or_local_Flood
https://www.ldsliving.com/5-answers-to-difficult-questions-about-noah-and-the-flood/s/87471
Tim Mackie speaks a lot about Robert Alter. He has written a lot about translation. Look at his books on amazon. He has translated the entire Hebrew Bible (with commentary). https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BN5HWWX/
He focuses a lot on the literary style of the books and has an excellent argument on translations in his introduction to the book called "The Bible in English and the Heresy of Explanation" You can actually read all of this (or at least I was able to) by going to the link above and making sure the kindle version is selected. Then click on the Image of the book so you can "Look Inside" from there you will be able to scroll down to the introduction and read his arguments there.
In summary, he states that while we try so hard to explain what the text says in our language we tend to diminish some of the original poetic-ness and art form of the Bible. It is a fascinating read and has helped me think much clearer about translations. I urge anyone to read this. (again, free from the link above)
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