Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you should read The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes. It poses a hypothesis that attempts to explain how our inner monologue came about due to the development of language. He poses that from around 10,000 BC to 1,500 BC humans heard voices in their heads via auditory hallucinations that were the voices of authority figures in their lives. Over time a social class developed to help make sense of these voices and maintain social order that coincided with the rise of civilizations in Mesopotamia. During and after the Bronze Age collapse the voices starting going away and we were left with just one inner monologue, our current one, though we still have vestiges in our brain such as hypnosis and schizophrenia.
It’s a pretty interesting read.
Wow....I never heard of that book.
I will put it on my reading list...! Looks involved! :) Thank you so much!!
"The Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bi-Camerial Mind"
For folks wondering about the large eyes, there was a sort of underground ‘cool’ book in the 99s called The Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes.
His thesis was that before the second millennium BC or, people thought that the voice we hear in our minds was actually gods speaking to them. Not their own selves.
Jaynes claims these depictions represent a person through whom a god is communicating.
It’s actually pretty interesting, no idea how well received this text or thesis is today.
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0618057072/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_JQD14A5XEGWWRX2XQ5FT
yeah because funnily enough the national socialist german workers' party is alive and well and strictly focuses on amazon book reviews. Or perhaps your teachers lied to you, and 96% of the population who actually possesses the capacity to conduct independent thought, the ones who pursue "facts over truth", are simply willing to expose themselves to all arguments, all sources, no matter how taboo, in the pursuit of this goal. Perhaps these people all came to their own conclusions, rather than just reciting ones that are imposed upon them. Then there's you, a "direction-brain" normie who actively publicly demonstrates their loyalty and obedience to his own oppression and helps to maintain this hegemony of control by regularly regurgitating (((approved thoughts))) such as: "the vaccine is Safe and Effective™" and "so what if Pfizer's CEO, Moderna's CEO, Johnson & Johnson's CEO, Regeneron's CEO, Astrazeneca's Chairman, the CDC Director, the CDC Deputy Director, the CDC Chief of Staff, the CDC Chief Medical Officer, the Covid Czar, the Covid Senior Advisor, the HHS Secretary, and the HHS Assistant Secretary are all Jewish. That's just a cohencidence goy. Plus, Hitler hated Jews, and according to my one-dimensional, linear way of thinking, Hitler was bad and he hated Jews, therefore all Jews are good and are our Greatest Ally ©."
I have another book recommendation that might help you come to terms with the situation you're facing. Don't worry, its NPC approved.
There was an old book I found fascinating a decade ago. The origin of conciousness in the breakdown on the bicameral mind.
Among many things it hypothesizes that the development of the corpus callosum in people silenced the side of our brain that was god.
He of course says it was still happening to the greeks and makes unverifiable claims, but it's very interesting.
https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
If this idea interests you, I'd highly recommend looking into Julian Jayne's "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"
There's a whole theory behind this notion, and it's a wild ride. Takes you back farther than Christ - check it out for a neat perspective.
I would recommend The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes - but you may not look at human consciousness the same way after reading it.
Fascinating book.
It's a long read or audiobook, but i highly recommend reading:
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0618057072/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_LbPtDbMB2M7A4
It blew my mind and has to do with this exact topic.
> You are aware that you are in /r/rational, not /r/hpmor, yes?
Sure, and HPMoR is frequently discussed in both.
> Even the original statement wasn't about HPMoR.
I missed that. It looked like it's a quote about HPMoR, and the OP didn't link to the original context. Sorry.
OK, that's basically a fantasy application of "humans are special" (TVtropes link left out). There's no end of stories about the elves being incapable of lying or bound by their word or otherwise having artistically interesting cognitive defects, and humans taking advantage of that to win over them.
Personally I would have picked bicameralism as the defunct cognitive model. Bicameral elves would be REALLY interesting.
So I've pretty much covered the skill it would teach them, to keep track of previous statements and see if they are inconsistent... for extended discussions, or where you find an inconsistency, you'd have some kind of signal for a clerk to patch in and keep track of what you're hearing and make notes and prompt you to ask leading questions though a magical earphone...
I know right? Totally unrelated to monero, but for anyone that's interested, the book "The Origin of Consciousness In the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes gives a pretty interesting theory about how and why this kind of authority worshiping behavior was likely the dominant mode of thinking for much of ancient history. If anything, witnessing all this authoritarian-loving hysteria springing up recently, without an ounce of self-reflection or irony, seems like pretty damning evidence of the book's hypothesis being true.
I'm just a normal guy, but this book is a real trip. He thinks up to about 3000 years ago humans didn't have a conscience. And when it started to develop people thought it was God speaking to them. I don't know how true it is, but extremely interesting. https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
This one here is, maybe, THE MOST controversial book regarding our (supposed) shift from non-self-conscious mind to self-conscious one. It's a very (very) interesting reading.
http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
That book theorizes that we used to actually not be able to hear ourselves cognate internally, and that we used to always hear ourselves externally. Check it out, maybe that's what's happening to you.
Dogs and cats have some "Human" type emotions, fear, trust, sense of fairness, but you are asking a much more complex question. There is a theory that early humans were like this too -- some able to work toward a goal, show volition, and others just accepting commands:
http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
It's pretty interesting and I don't think it's been proven quackery.
i recommend this book
fwiw, i find it entirely plausible that you're being used as a lab rat by the CIA or similar with the goal of socially engineering religious beliefs via mind control;
however, this book from the 70s contains a pretty radical theory about a supposedly very different dominant mode of consciousness in ancient mankind (based on his intellectual background, the author even refuses to call it "consciousness").
it deals with "forced speech" of an older variant if you will; for example, there's a large section regarding the oracles, which used to be very influential 2000++ years ago.
in a tiny nutshell, jaynes thought that people in general back then more or less just recited whatever dialogue was "pushed through them", without much of a filter, reflection, etc.
pushed through by whom? the book does mention "gods" as metaphor for the unknown, but it's not a theological book...jaynes is a psychologist.
it's pretty heady stuff, but definitely food for thought in today's light.
(maybe something for you, lomegg?)
there's a book by julian jaynes called...complex title. https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
he theorizes that people always have heard voices in older times that were pretty much perfectly synced up with what they considered "themselves". like reciting mostly predefined lines from a threatrical play. following his theory, only at a later stage (roughly 1k b.c.) did something develop which he calls the "analog I", a way of thinking and forming verbal thoughts that's more independent, essentially.
it's a pretty radical and fringe-y theory, but very interesting to consider in light of this modern mind control stuff. he's in a way describing a hive mind model that precedes high tech, a more natural hive mind idea that you could also label "gods talking through us"...he specially mentions the "oracles" of olden times and how profoundly they influenced us culturally.
i also think that the majority of people have always been there to "reproduce", and you can take that sexually as well as literally...i mean, literary, or whatever. people who mostly just function, do what they're supposed to in their functional infrastructure, and are too controlled, lacking leisure and scared, really, to start creating and applying creative, original thought. i grew up with less fear and pressure i guess, and i still remember that my thoughts were pretty non-verbal overall; why do i remember this? only because when i would have to do something social that stresses me out, like stand in a line in a shop and order something, would i start pre-verbalising my order in my head, and stuff like that. that's why i think people thinking in fully formed sentence structures is a sign of continued stress of functioning properly, i.e. some fear that built up early. i think it was the most common way of growing up, because growing up on this planet has been a fearful thing for forever.
and yeah, i agree, many people who think verbally are probably subtly controlled.
but i mention the julian jaynes book because i actually think this problem is deeper than c.i.a. tech; it calls for a mixed model (natural hive mind/technological hive mind) because whether the core thesis of jaynes is right or not, he's right in that many common folk have always dealt with this "speech demon" putting predefined sentence blocks in their head. technology willfully exacerbates it, in my opinion.
This book by a fellow named Julian Jaynes goes for a deep dive on that topic... But it's almost all conjecture.
Still, a great read:
https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
For any one who likes West World and dense philosophy texts -- Jaynes wrote an interesting theory on how humans "evolved" the inner monologue: http://www.julianjaynes.org/julian-jaynes-theory-overview.php His book is great, but not for the faint of heart.
Here's one of my favorites:
https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
> Ups, more grief and victimization towards me, because somehow ive taught to punish myself and not accept who i am. Sometimes I'm so tired that I can't even consciously battle with the intrusive thoughts.
Oh, no - that sounds too familiar. Of course you're not in any way responsible for the bizarre thinking of others, & you certainly shouldn't punish yourself for any of that. But how to turn off the 'parent tapes' (or WT dogma, etc.)?
>I still struggle with that magical thinking to this day
Okay, for some reason this comment struck me a little differently & reminded me of things I got into after I left the JWs.
I looked into Wicca for a while after I left. It was fun to learn about a new belief system (systems), & I toyed with some of the spells/magical thinking at the time.
I'm well aware that this next part worked out for me, since I was an adult at the time, but maybe it will work for you, too.
After learning about that stuff, I tried some of the things they talk about - astral projection, reading cards before they were turned over, moving things with my mind, etc.
I got absolutely nothing. Nada, zip, zero, blank emptiness, etc. Especially the part about moving things with my mind (hey, who doesn't feel like pulling the tv remote to them instead of having to get up & pick it up, once in a while?)
That's when the whole concept of magical thinking totally, completely collapsed for me. I was pretty skeptical even before that, but when I tried to pull the tv remote to me - & failed - I figured if it couldn't even do something practical, then it must all be fake.
>I cant find the link but its called the origin of consciousness in the break down of the bicameral mind Julian Janes. For sure there's a PDF you can download.
Maybe this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)
https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
Keeping in mind (pun not intended) that the book is at least 40 years old. There have been some significant discoveries about the human mind & how the brain grows & develops from infancy, since then.
The title of the finale was based on this book so check it out! Waiting to read it myself.
You might like this. https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
I think you might like this https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
Yes, you can talk with the Cosmos just like trees. You may speak of different things. Ultimately, it is the same divine energy that flows through everything.
It takes some practice but a dialog can be established. Of course, some may say this is schizophrenia. But it isn't.
You may enjoy The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind not a spiritual work. Julian Jaynes is a noted, if somewhat controversial, physiologist.
Check this book out. Worth the read.
Your Inner Fish
The original Cosmos Series is great too.
If you are interested in the origin of consciousness, here is a controversial one:
http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072
An utterly fascinating book about this is The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes. There aren't any books that spook me out any more, but this one did. It was just weird reading it...sort of what people in the 20s must have felt reading HP Lovecraft back before movies like Hellraiser became commonplace and we lost our sense of horror. From the Amazon review:
>His theory, in simplest terms, is that until about 3000 years ago, all of humankind basically heard voices. The voices were actually coming from the other side of the brain, but because the two hemispheres were not in communication the way they are now for most of us, the voices seemed to be coming from outside. The seemed, in fact, to be coming from God or the gods. > >But he also posits that many sophisticated civilizations were created by men and women who were all directed by these godlike voices. What is not very clearly explained (a serious gap in his theory) is how all the voices in these "bicameral civilizations," as he calls them, worked in harmony. But his theory is that ancient Greece, Babylon, Assyria, Egpyt, and less ancient but similar Mayan and Incan kingdoms were all built by people who were not "conscious" in our modern sense. > >When one hears voices, whether then or now, the voices tend to be commanding and directive, and the need to obey them compelling. Free will is not possible. And so the people who built the pyramids were not self-aware as we are, did not feel self-pity, did not make plans, but simply obeyed the voices, which somehow were in agreement that the thing must be done.
The author produced only this work and died in 1997. It is either total B.S. or an absolutely revolutionary idea. Unfortunately, it is non-provable, all we can do is speculate. Read the book, it's worth your time and available from the usual places, including torrents.
Er, just realized that the topic is before language. Oops. Anyway I wrote this all out so clicking 'save' anyway.
there's a very interesting and thought provoking book that relates to this idea.
I have not finished the book yet but the author does suggest (convincingly) that many who claim to have god-like experiences were actually just schizophrenic. It's a fascinating read overall and I'd recommend it.