UGH I've said this in other threads about him not changing diapers but TANNER ACTS EXACTLY LIKE MY EX-HUSBAND.
Jade, girl, just please read this book and consider whether this is really what you want.
Here's what I recommend:
It's very tricky, but I read a book that opened my eyes. The title says it all: Too good to leave, to bad to stay
This book runs through a series of things / red flags that should indicate whether you should stay in the relationship or not.
I hear you. Also, I love you. I'm going to tell you a thing that may be difficult to believe: you are loved, you are loveable, you are capable of love. There is nothing you could ever say or do or think or believe, or, for that matter, not say or not think or not do or not believe that will ever change the fact that you are both lovable and capable of love.
An essential thing for me in acting on the knowledge that I needed to leave the abusive situations in my life was learning to care about my own wellbeing. It was work, it was hard, and it was rewarding.
I'm 42 years old, and for the very first time, I like myself.
A resource that helped confirm my choice to leave my marriage was this book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-kOdFb8X43B2E
You got this 💪❤️
This book helped me find clarity around a similar question (‘AITA if I leave because he has a trait he can’t or won’t change)… https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350/ref=asc_df_0452275350_nodl?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312674999652&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4426187946557900406&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&...
Hey OP, I read your post and other comments and I'm going through very similar feelings right now. So I don't have the answers for you, and while I'm far from settled on or ready for making a choice myself, I have found the book Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay very helpful in helping me understand my relationship ambivalence. I'm not quite done with it but there were a lot of a-ha moments for me after already having agonized over this for over a year and a half.
I listened to this on audible: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_41D96V4DZ2A06D7QYNPP
And I read about abusive relationships and I knew. Then I started talking to a couple people I cared about and it all of a sudden hit me like a ton of bricks. I was going through some crazy, not normal shit. It was easy to decide then.
Hi Op, divorce or not is a huge decision to make. there are so many things to consider. In laws, children. Everything. I’ll recommend this book to help make a decision. It makes in depth analysis and yet gives you a big picture. So that we don’t make any decision that we regret.
First and foremost: counseling. Nip this in the bud.
If you have another rant about how he treats you, you could probably save your money and just walk away, but he’ll still be in your life because of baby, so family counseling is probably warranted regardless.
If you’re wushu-washy on leaving because “history”, “baby”, “he’s not as bad as some others”, try this book: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_S6V6YHV4YD44TKJB7VQX
HTH.
OP, I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
I highly recommend the book Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay. It was extremely helpful for me when I was in a similar marriage. I didn’t even finish it before I knew what I had to do. You may read it and come to different conclusions, but it’s really helpful.
I'd suggest you look at Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay that helps people decide if they should stay in their marriage or run away. It helped me a lot, and it feels like it might help you too, as you seem to be justifying why you should stay together while saying you're miserable.
Another piece of advice which I so wish had been given to me, is to first go see a lawyer. Doesn't matter if you're far away from divorcing, if there are zillions of obstacles of all kinds (e.g. kids / assets / ...) - going to see a lawyer can help you prepare things even years before going for divorce, and can pay off big time.
In my 12 years of marriage, there have been ups and downs, including some very down moments where we both contemplated divorce. I’ll be honest, if it weren’t for our daughter, I think we would have split. I’m glad we didn’t because things are so much better now, but it was touch and go for a while.
Having witnessed plenty of unhappy marriages, my personal opinion is that sometimes divorce is, if not the answer, then at least the best step. You’re both young, you have no kids (this is a huge factor), you have all the time in the world to find and create the marriage you desire. The world is still your oyster, and neither of you needs to settle. Having children is such a life-changing experience. I can’t imagine wanting children and never getting to realize that dream because my partner didn’t want them. For me that would be a dealbreaker. I’m not sure whether a middle path of compromise even exists with such a monumental, unalterable decision.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with establishing deadlines and ultimatums. Maybe it’s three months, six months, or a year. Use that time frame to work toward specific, measurable goals for yourself and for the marriage. If you do and find that things improve, wonderful. If not, well that is useful information, too, and you can feel peace knowing you did your best. Some bridges of personality/values/goals are too far to span.
A helpful book I read during my time contemplating divorce was this one: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350/ref=nodl_
Written by a therapist, it provides a good framework of questions for evaluating the decision to stay together or divorce. Perhaps you’d find it useful.
Based just on what you've said, it sounds like you should leave him. It won't be fun for your kids, but neither will living with two parents who are miserable. You did make a commitment to him, but a commitment means more than just staying — it means doing the work and making the necessary changes to have a healthy, sustainable relationship where your spouse feels loved. It sounds like you've been trying to do that, but has he? He doesn't get to simply coast and make your life awful — honoring your marriage commitment should not be a punishment for you.
If you need a more clear way to figure this out, this book might be helpful. Good luck.
what you're feeling is ambivalence. This book gave me so much clarity. It is incredibly written and is not exactly a self-help book. It helps you figure out for yourself.
I would read the book or listen to the audiobook Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay, it will help you evaluate if you still feel like there is anything worth saving in your relationship. It doesn’t try to convince you to stay with or partner or go, it mostly poses questions for you to think about and I found it really helpful for evaluating relationships.
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_5LLcGb7DVBKH3
If you decide you still have even a little desire to make your marriage work I would then I would go to couples counseling even one time to see if a third party can mediate the conversation enough that maybe your wife begins to hear you. If she isn’t willing to go to counseling then you’ve really done all you can do. There’s no way to control someone else’s behavior and if she won’t go to the doctor or seek counseling with you there’s little left for you to do.
If you already know you’re done, well, you are the only one who would know that and you’re allowed to get a divorce. It doesn’t make you the bad guy to get a divorce, what matters is doing it respectfully.
It sounds like you’re in a tough situation. I would totally check out that book and consider the counseling before ending it, but that’s just me. I hope you do whatever you need to do for yourself
Omg this sounds exhausting. I’m so sorry, OP. Of course you’re NTA.
I’m just sorry to hear that you have three kids with him, which means I can’t tell you to run for the freaking hills.
Couples counseling is probably a good idea? I don’t know, if I were you I’d ask my therapist for advice on next steps and I’d also read Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. Finally, do some thinking about what kind of people you want your children to be, and what kind of relationships you want them to have one day, because they’ll be naturally drawn to what they saw at home while growing up.
Older book, maybe in your library, but it helped me sort out my head before I ultimately filed for divorce:
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
I'm on my second and hopefully last marriage and have been married longer this time than the last time. I do like being married. To the right person.
I was in a similar place a few years ago with my partner. Too many details to recount. I am in love with him again.
Are you currently in therapy? Or have you considered seeing a therapist to help sort out your feelings around this?
I recommend this book.
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fab_xHhFFb4ZQS8DJ
It's really hard to find exactly the advice you need here because every relationship is different and every woman's needs are too.
When I was going through a similar phase with my partner I took a solo trip (understandably not available to you right now but maybe some alone time is) and read the book "too good to leave, too bad to stay". It really helped me look at my relationship piece by piece and figure out what I was willing to put in vs. what I'd be giving up.
I hope this helps you and wish you the best Amazon link to book
Either way you're put in a life changing situation. This could just be his fear talking and something he will come to accept. It could be him looking for an excuse to get out. It could be a sign you need to prioritize your safety. No one has the answers to this. Figure out what makes sense for you and what you think you can live with long term.
Someone made this post on another thread. I think it's relevant here: I would start with this book:
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_5yrQBbDGX7TAG
Here's a book thats been mentioned on here before that might help you sort through things.
> That I want to live life on MY terms, and split up. I feel a sense of "guilt". That I am the person leaving. I just can not stop the feeling that there is "some other person" to give me the warmth, caring and affection I need. Am I a "SAP".?. I want to be happy, but still feel the guilt and remorse from hurting her feelings...help!!!
Life is short.
You still have a few good years left. Do you want to spend them with someone whom you are not compatible with?
There can be good reasons to stay or go.
But fear of hurting her feelings with a breakup is a silly reason to stay unhappy.
Good luck!
You are in a tough situation. I suggest reading Too good to leave, too bad to stay. It might help you make a decision about your relationship. It might be worth talking to your therapist about it before you do.
Good luck in your journey. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_ZiZCybZYDK7J7
Regarding 'wrong decisions', I always recommend this book (Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship) because reading it and answering the questions can bring you clarity about whether divorce is a good decision or a bad decision or a neutral one. Good luck.
Its a tough call indeed.
On one hand, relapses happen. If you feel like you've paid your dues and you don't really want to risk anything, then you may want to stay gone.
On the other hand, sometimes people need a big ol kick in the ass before they make a change.
You're going to have to do some soul searching to do. Perhaps this book would help you on your way. Best of luck to you in your decision. Don't feel obligated just because you made a promise. The stakes are too high for you. Make a decision based on what you know about your relationship with him, and your belief in his capacity to change.
Just know this - there are a lot of folks out there who (like me) get stuck believing in 'potential'. We dream of what a person "could be" to us, and ignore the current state of the world. After this goes on long enough, we get kicked in the ass and finally realize the reality of the situation. If we're lucky, we've wasted only a handful of years. If we're not, we might have wasted our whole life. Look out for yourself.
This book, Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay, has helped a couple of people I know figure out whether or not to stay or go. Some of them stayed and worked on their relationship some; some went.
I was in the same situation for three or four years. About a year ago, I read this book. http://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step---Step/dp/0452275350/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424900771&sr=8-1&keywords=too+good+to+leave+too+bad+to+stay
You should read it. The book basically recommended that we get divorced. Instead of doing that I decided to do the only thing I could, which was change myself. At about the same time, my wife decided that we needed to meet with Matt Townsend with the goal of opening up the communication channels so we could decide whether to get a divorce (and divorce as friends if it came to that).
Fast forward and we are in a place where we are making things work for the most part. We didn't get divorced and there are still some challenges. However, I think this is the best path for us.
I cannot agree more with this comment.
I experienced counselling for the first time after my dad died and i've used counsellors/therapists since then when I've felt the need, and they have been really therapeutic - You're the one providing the answers and solutions however the counsellor works to assist you in exploring those options and move forward.
The last thing you want to do right now is make a knee-jerk decision. If you can't find or afford appropriate counselling then there's a great book I've heard about which maybe you and your husband could work through together... http://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
Relationship ambiguity, especially with kids involved, is a tough situation. If you want clarity, I highly recommend Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay. This book is a diagnostic manual for relationships relative to "should I stay or go?" and covers everything including kids.
Enlist a friend or cousin's help in ending this. Your job is to avoid all contact after the breakup, let a cousin handle the details of getting addresses changed and whatnot. Get help in doing the details.
Don't spend forever planning your escape and never doing it. As I've said before, leave when everything appears fine. Leave on your terms, don't wait for some big drama. Leave simply because you know it's right to do so.
Also, read this book if you're still on the fence about leaving:
http://www.amazon.ca/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
I would start with this book:
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_5yrQBbDGX7TAG
I recommend the book Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay which helps with this very question.
I'm actually very similar to your situation, except that I already have 3 kids in the mix, which makes it a whole heck of a lot harder. Someone on this thread recommended the book "Too good to leave, Too bad to stay" and I'm now going to recommend this book to YOU.
I started reading it recently, and it's a VERY good book to help you figure out if your relationship is too good to pick up and leave, or if it's too toxic to stay in and to get out. Get it on Amazon here... http://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350.
You can find a PDF of it online, or buy it. I am going to buy it to keep on the shelf, because it has so many good thoughts and ideas. Also, if you want the jist of the book without reading it, it has 35 questions to evaluate whether or not to stay or leave, and you can read those questions here... https://divorcesource.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/too-good-to-leave-too-bad-to-stay/
The book presents a question, and then explains a guideline based on that question, and then gives real world examples. It's great!
--> Warning: Long Post Ahead<---
Well, I tried to read all the comments before I added my 0.3 cents (no, no three cents ~ one-third of a cent). It will be worth every penny you paid for it.
Happiness is not made, it is decided. (unknown)
If you were to hold up a mirror and look through it (not into it) you would see me. 60+-year-old, married 30+ years, living with my oldest and best friend. She has no libido and a very hard time being affectionate. But, that's my story.
I won't have anything good for you. I will tell you the worst thing you will want to hear. Like an attorney would say "it depends". Everyone's situation is different, everyone has different values and within those values, a different weight ascribed to each ~ and even that changes from time to time.
When I first wanted to leave, my kids were 9 and 11 (they are in their 20s now). I had a terrible childhood and I was going to give my/our kids everything I didn't have (love and affection). Also, I knew, as a dad, I would be missing out on a lot of things and could potentially lose some of my influence if she remarried and another man were to move in. My kids were my only concern. But, again I digress.
You, as well as I, have to assess the cost-benefit equation. No, it is not that cold and calculated as a P&L. That is what makes the decision process SO difficult; balancing the nontangibles against the tangibles. And even the tangibles have an intangible component. For me, it comes down to uncertainty and freedom against certainty and a soulless existence.
I am, and I would suggest you consider, a trial separation. That would give you an idea of what you would be gaining and losing and the NET effect on you and your kids. The really scary part could be that he ends up liking it and you don't. Ya, sorry I had to say that. (an expression I heard a while ago is somewhat applicable here: "bad news does not get better with age")
Last I would leave you with this: I read a book "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay". It was written by Mira Kirshenbaum and I studied it like there was a final exam on it (I guess you could say there is). One thing that stuck with me, was one of the very first things she talked about. And here is the question that will help (I said HELP, not "make") you decide, or at least get closer to an answer. Here is the link. I prefer audiobooks but here's the hard copy. https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
If your marriage is now what it was when it was at its best would you still stay, or would you leave?
Good luck.
I found this video from Esther perel really helpful in navigating ambiguous relationships.
And if you have more time, I recommend this book, I listened to the audiobook version.
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
It really breaks down what are unchangeable uncompatibilities and what things can evolve and improve.
Read these books, in this order:
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay
Note, the last one is optional in this context, it's about trauma, it's a heavy, graphic read (describes physical/mental abuse, rape, war, etc), and it's aimed at professionals - therapists and psychologists, etc.... I found it a useful read anyway, it helped me understand what's going on in my body when something like this happens.
I’d also recommend this book: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
It was a real eye opener for me. Good luck navigating your decision. You deserve the best life has to offer.
Do yourself a favour - buy this book and read it. Heed it's warnings:
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
Before making a decision either way, I recommend this book to you
https://www.amazon.ca/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
Buy her this book: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0452275350/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_ETR008VYZMTSXAG00P49
If you're feeling ambivalent, I recommend this book. It gave me a tremendous amount of clarity.
Even when there are a lot of red flags, it can be really hard to leave a relationship. Especially a marriage to someone with with whom you have kids. Even minus the kids, there are almost always positive aspects of dysfunctional (even abusive) relationships. That's often why it is so hard to leave. When I was working up the courage to leave an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship (it took me over two years, btw), this book was helpful. It is a step-by-step guide that asks you to examine dealbreakers in a relationship. This book is a collection of short stories about women who "love too much", which is often a pattern in relationships rather than an isolated incidence. When I realized I could relate to nearly every story, I became more motivated to leave my toxic situation and begin the healing process.
I mean this in the kindest way-- but I also get the feeling that you struggle with codependency, given your history as the child of an alcoholic. Codependency is a component of all abusive relationships. Codependency is essentially required to keep a mismatched couple together, especially in relationships where there are power dynamics. It's something I struggle with, and I've found a lot of support by attending local Codepedents Anonymous meetings. Most people come from families with a history of addiction and/or other dysfunction. They tend to find themselves in unhealthy relationships that they feel unable to leave. For me, it was nice to meet some people who looked normal on the outside (like me) but who were struggling greatly on the inside. It helped me to realize that I'm not alone, and helped equipped me with the tools I needed to change my life when I couldn't change my partner (or my family).
I'm sorry you're hurting, OP. You sound like a good partner and parent, and you deserve someone who can meet you halfway. You deserve peace, even if that means leaving your partner. Your children will be better off with a single, healthy mom than a dysfunctional marriage.
Read this book ASAP:
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350/
Personally, this book helped quite a bit.
This book might be a good resource for you https://www.amazon.ca/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=too+good+to+leave+too+bad+to+stay&qid=1573662208&sr=8-1
Well...even though the decision is out of your hands at this point this book might be able to give you some perspective and acceptance with the decision. It takes a step by step approach with questions to work through about whether a relationship is worth being in. https://www.amazon.ca/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=too+good+to+leave+too+bad+to+stay&qid=1573662208&sr=8-1
Read this and go through the exercises:
A book really helped me with the question about why I was staying. Maybe it will help OP, too
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
In the book "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" a couple of things you describe is covered. Amazon I recommend reading it to help you frame your situation for yourself.
Please read <strong>this book</strong>.
Please get this book out of the library or a bookstore.
For people who like reading, this book is great: http://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350
She never married you, she married the church, and you were merely the interchangeable proxy.
I strongly suggest that your watch this video about a couple who has dealt with this and came out the other side positively.
I also strongly urge you to read this.
Yikes. Really, make the appointment ASAP. It sounds like there are a lot of unhealthy patterns happening. What's he's doing when he makes you feel like your memory is fallible and you don't remember things correctly is called, "gaslighting" and it's a cardinal feature of an emotionally and mentally abusive relationship. I wish you the best and I think that this book Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay, read hidden from him, would be helpful as well. I only say hidden because you don't want it to lead to him getting into an out of control rage. It's hard to know what someone with abusive tendencies will do when they're pushed hard. Good luck. PM me if you need some support or a sounding board.
You need to read this book. It helps you decide whether to get a divorce. http://smile.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step---Step/dp/0452275350/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1430926517&sr=1-1&keywords=too+good+to+leave+too+bad+to+stay
who are you to decide if it is in his best interest to change for you or not?
Can't you see how controlling you are?
Should I let him change!
Should I divorce for both our goods
Should I be unhappy for the rest of my life
You don't talk like a team player. You don't talk like you went into this marriage understanding that you give up some of your autonomy as an individual to work together to create a new unit, which should be better than the individual pieces
My STBXw had the same attitude, so it strikes a fucking nerve with me.
All she ever thought about was herself, her wants ... let me let you in on a little secret about life... if you only focus on what your needs are and your wants, then you actually get nothing but a big pile of frustration.
If, on the other hand, you focus on your partners needs, their wants, miraculously you will see them also attend to yours. It is called mutually assured satisfaction (I just made that up)
But most people don't follow that rule of life and then end up with mutually assured destruction.
You can walk away from a decade with this person and your marriage but you will soon find yourself in the same situation with not-this-man.
Sure, he has some issues, we all do, no one is perfect. But your lack of ability to let go of some things, look past them, work on the big picture .. that is going to destroy your marriage.
Read this book https://www.amazon.com/Good-Leave-Stay-Step-Step/dp/0452275350