What is Reddit's opinion of Trust Us We're Experts: How Industry Manipulates Science and Gambles with Your Future?

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The tobacco companies have spent a fortune in advertising and bribing doctors & scientists to claim it is healthy. The book Trust Us We're Experts details the history of this. Other industries use the same tactics to keep other things legal. You will recognize the same tactics used by the global warming denialists and other obscure industries like sandblasting (silicosis kills lots of Americans, not Europeans).

If you're looking for one or two studies to basically conclude there's a problem, of course you won't find it. Otherwise everybody would see it. Nobody wants to spend money doing this research because the vaccine makers can't be sued, so why would they spend large amounts of money really doing a good double blind true placebo controlled study vs a superficial study. The government doesn't want to find negative results or it'll open up pandora's box of lawsuits. (see whistleblower explain how his CDC bosses told him to lie and throw out data) So you have to piece it together from various outlets.

That's why this is so complex and hard.

You have to look at all the evidence from multiple angles and multiple Sources. You have to look at the economic incentives, history of corruption, <strong>conflicts of interest</strong>, and the politics and power structures and ulterior motives of those in control of the education, the research, the practice of medicIne

And then realize any form of censorship is usually an admittance that the powerful controlling side doesn't have what it takes to rebut the claims of the censored. Is it easier to believe the centralized authorities or the grassroots collective stories of the decentralized?

most ppl only become skeptical about vaccines for two reasons 1) they have personal experience or know somebody who has with an injury, so they start researching it, 2) they understand the long history of how big corporations are in bed with the government, and they understand how govt and big corporations have failed us time and time again all because of MONEY and POWER! (look for whistleblowers)

https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2362https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Us-Were-Experts-Manipulates/dp/1585421391

https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Us-Were-Experts-Manipulates/dp/1585421391 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States https://web.archive.org/web/20190604093229/https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005528

If none of these two apply to you or you only know a handful of sordid events, ppl will continue to just seek out whatever confirms their belief system. Sure you can argue both sides seek confirmation bias, but science is all about trying to keep proving yourself wrong and not right, and at least one side is showing problems that warrant a response, but instead they get ignored and made fun of. All that does is fuel the fire.

If you're looking for one or two studies to basically conclude there's a problem, of course you won't find it. Otherwise everybody would see it. Nobody wants to spend money doing this research because the vaccine makers can't be sued, so why would they spend large amounts of money really doing a good double blind true placebo controlled study vs a superficial study. The government doesn't want to find negative results or it'll open up pandora's box of lawsuits. (see whistleblower explain how his CDC bosses told him to lie and throw out data) So you have to piece it together from various outlets.

That's why this is so complex and hard.

You have to look at all the evidence from multiple angles and multiple Sources. You have to look at the economic incentives, history of corruption, <strong>conflicts of interest</strong>, and the politics and power structures and ulterior motives of those in control of the education, the research, the practice of medicIne

And then realize any form of censorship is usually an admittance that the powerful controlling side doesn't have what it takes to rebut the claims of the censored. Is it easier to believe the centralized authorities or the grassroots collective stories of the decentralized?

most ppl only become skeptical about vaccines for two reasons 1) they have personal experience or know somebody who has with an injury, so they start researching it, 2) they understand the long history of how big corporations are in bed with the government, and they understand how govt and big corporations have failed us time and time again all because of MONEY and POWER! (look for whistleblowers)

https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2362https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Us-Were-Experts-Manipulates/dp/1585421391

https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Us-Were-Experts-Manipulates/dp/1585421391 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States https://web.archive.org/web/20190604093229/https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005528

If none of these two apply to you or you only know a handful of sordid events, ppl will continue to just seek out whatever confirms their belief system. Sure you can argue both sides seek confirmation bias, but science is all about trying to keep proving yourself wrong and not right, and at least one side is showing problems that warrant a response, but instead they get ignored and made fun of. All that does is fuel the fire.

cool

i didn't realize it was a quote from a book so that's all i was looking for. https://prwatch.org/books/experts.html

> You think that if a scientist says so, it must be true? In the early 1990s, tobacco companies secretly paid thirteen scientists a total of $156,000 to write a few letters to influential medical journals. One biostatistician received $10,000 for writing a single, eight-paragraph letter that was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. A cancer researcher received $20,137 for writing four letters and an opinion piece to the Lancet, the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, and the Wall Street Journal. Nice work if you can get it, especially since the scientists didn't even have to write the letters themselves. Two tobacco-industry law firms were available to do the actual drafting and editing. https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Us-Were-Experts-Manipulates/dp/1585421391

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just reiterating to save the post

it's not just deaths it's injuries, but i get where ur coming from.

> although I personally think the numbers would be on the smaller side.

fair enough, my opinion would be the amount of fake vaers reports are small, too. whatever source ur using to show examples of these "fake" reports are picking the most extreme cases, because they're super biased and trying to show only their side. Notice how they won't objectively say, "yea vaers is probably underreported" due to the links i showed you)

so imo, vaers is greatly underreported (10x to 100x) and the amount of fake reports is far fewer. (maybe 50% at max...do you really think 80% or 90% of them are fake? if they were ur source would have a ton more examples)

as i say, most ppl only become skeptical about vaccines for two reasons 1) they have personal experience or know somebody who has with an injury, so they start researching it, 2) they understand the long history of how big corporations are in bed with the government, and they understand how govt and big corporations have failed us time and time again all because of MONEY and POWER! (look for whistleblowers) https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2362 https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Us-Were-Experts-Manipulates/dp/1585421391 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States https://web.archive.org/web/20190604093229/https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005528

If none of these two apply to you or you only know a handful of sordid events, ppl will continue to just seek out whatever confirms their belief system. Sure you can argue both sides seek confirmation bias, but science is all about trying to keep proving yourself wrong and not right, and at least one side is showing problems that warrant a response, but instead they get ignored and made fun of. All that does is fuel the fire.

I could post a bunch more links, but you it'll probably be flagged by the bots, so you can look at my comment history if u want