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I've used this for years. Never gotten anywhere close to 200C but I really don't see why it wouldn't work. Silicone should be able to handle that.
I cut squares out of a silicone thermal pad and they’ve worked great. They don’t melt on the heated plate, transfer heat evenly to the glass bed, and keep it firmly in place. Haven’t found a better solution to this problem.
uxcell 400mm x 205mm x 0.5mm Silicone Thermal Pad for CPU GPU Heatsink https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007PPEW52/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_6phnFdbX7yK2e
The glass bed does not need to touch for the heat transfer. As /u/Grey406 recommends, get thermal pads, but get these:
Cut them in two inch squares and put them maybe in each corner and one in the middle (do not fill the whole bed). I would highly suggest not using binder clips. I have the maker select 2.1 and this is a great setup, PLA and PETG have been great with it. The heat will transfer just fine with it floating on top and I've found the binder clips will warp thinner glass. Use aqua hairspray if you need to.
For the glass size: Either get the glass cut to fit within the screws, or buy a dedicated piece of borosillicate glass on amazon that will fit your bed size.
Is it the bed that is warped, or the Y-carriage?
I use silicone thermal pads cut in 2 inch squares that float the glass bed on top of my heated bed. No need for clips.
In my experience, it was the Y-carriage, not the heated bed that was actually warped and prevented me from leveling. In my case, I replaced it with a thicker Y-carriage from amazon.
No, do not remove it. Get some thermal pad to put between that surface and your glass to 1) make the glass stay in place and 2) help transfer the heat from the bed to the glass.
This one works well: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PPEW52/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Wipe all that off and try something like this. I use this between my motor and heat sink and it actually makes a big difference. You could cut it to fit this space under your motor and it would not be messy like that. Cheap enough to make new pads if it ever wears out.
I bought something called a thermal silicone pad, cut out 5 squares, and placed them in the 4 corners and center. This solutions works like a dream. The glass is very stable but can be pulled up easily enough. Heat transfers through the silicone so there aren’t temperature issues.
Edit: link to Amazon uxcell 400mm x 205mm x 0.5mm Silicone Thermal Pad for CPU GPU Heatsink https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007PPEW52/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_rBoLEbCX3Z8HW
I bought this because I had a glass bed and I was wanting to get it to stick to the carriage without having to use clips. So, you cut that sheet up into squares and place them in a checkerboard pattern on the aluminum bed. The consistency of heat on the bed is still good and it doesn't move around when printing. Just makes it annoying to take the glass bed off if I have to do something with the aluminum bed because the thermal pads will move or come off or stick to something else and I have to position them again.
Not so far. The two corners immediately adjacent are used to level in that diagonal and generally control the height of the bed. The corner across from the removed spring is used to provide a teeter-totter leveling action that uses the other corners as a pivot line. The spring in that corner keeps the proper tension to hold the bed in place. I suppose it would droop if I put a bunch of weight on the corner and warped the material, but I left the original metal bed and put glass over it. I'm also not using clips to hold the glass on. I purchased some thermal pad material (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PPEW52/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and am using that to help keep the glass in place.
I have a sheet of thermal padding I was planning to use and I'm sure I have some clips around the house.
I bought this in preparation, so now I just wait for the new glass.
OK, now that I've actually used my thermal pad, I love it! The print I'm currently running is adhering even better than normal, plus I didn't even use the clips! It's just tacky enough to hold the glass in place.
This is the exact product I bought and use.
I cut it into approximate 1 inch squares and put one square in each corner directly on the metal plate. I don't think it will work if you have tape or buildtak on it so clean it off first.
Some use these without clamps. Their are other thickness's on amazon to suit your needs.
Try something like this Silicone Thermal Pad for CPU GPU Heatsink.
You'll probably want to remove the build material ("BuildTak" stuff) before using the silicone thermal pad. The pad may not stick too well if left on.
You should need to add anything to the starting script but you will need to remember that your max height will be reduced by the thickness of the whatever is added to the bed surface.
I ordered mine from Amazon.
One possibility is that I do not have an air conditioner as I don't need one, the temps where I live rarely hit 80F or drop below 50F. Air conditioners are also dehumidifers. If you have AC maybe it dried it out sooner, just a guess.
The other possibility could be that I keep my glass on the bed all the time and only remove it to clean it or apply hairspray. Maybe since I keep mine covered it did not dry out. Again only a guess. I don't know your situation.
Nope, no binder clips.. I use this stuff which works very nice and really grips both the metal plate and glass when it's heated up but releases the glass pretty easily when it cools.
I had the exact same issue. I solved it by:
getting a cheap piece of glass and sticking my PEI sheet to it.
Then I heated up the buildplate to about 100 and peeled off the buildtak.
put down 4-5 pieces of silicone thermal padding on the bare buildplate. (It will stick to the glass and hold it in place.)
Put the glass on top of the silicone pads (PEI side up)
Raise your Z Stop (depends on the thickness of the glass)
remove the nice glass holders
The glass holders were nice while I was transitioning from using the stock buildtak but the steps I described only take about 20min once you have all the parts. I would also replace your Y Carriage plate. It will save you a lot of time leveling your bed. I only level mine about 3-4 weeks.
I went to my local glass shop and had them cut me a few pieces of glass 200mmx220mm and about 3mm thick. I don't have it clamped to the bed, I just cut off squares of this silicone thermal pad, which is sticky enough to keep the bed in place. I also bought a PEI sheet and have applied it to one of the pieces of glass, which I use for PLA. I've heard using a PEI sheet with PETG is a real pain, so I have a couple plain glass beds if I ever try printing with that.
You can use 0.5mm heat sink silicon. The stuff is expensive, but much cleaner than clips and provides better thermal conduction.
It might be even better in your case since your bed isn't even.
As others have said, use cheap hairspray, glue stick, or painters tape.
I don't see anything under your glass. Buy this and cut some small squares to put between the glass and bed. It's a lifetime supply. My Maker Select bed is slightly concave in the middle so my glass only touches the pads on the edges.
I had to get my nozzle closer with glass than I did with the stock buildtack.
It looks like you're printing all the way to the edge of your glass. The glass will warm up up faster in the middle and may never get to the full temp on the far edges. At least give it more time to heat before you start printing.
Thanks for the fast response. I like the idea of the silicon thermal pad and was curious if you had any recommendations or if you use something like this.
I figured when I went to glass I wouls use kapton and glue, that is what worked really well when I was using my original Davinci, but I might try hairspray.
Check your drive gear, make sure it's clean and not full of filament. Make sure the first layer is not too close, there shouldn't be any clicking on the first layer. The first layer is the most important, IMHO. You might want to try a cold pull just for kick, although it's hard to believe both hot ends would need one. I hate to even jinx it, but to date my Maker Select v1 has yet to jam during a print, ever (I've only had it for a year). **Switching filaments it a pain though.
For good adhesion I use glass for printing, apply hair spray for PLA and glue stick for ABS before printing, both come off with water. Use cheap glass pane from hardware store and sand the edges/corners, use a "Silicone Thermal Pad" under the glass to stick to the bed.
It's a good printer for the money, hang in there.
I used pieces of Silicone Thermal Pad to "float" the glass on top of the bed. I bought the 0.5mm thick pad I linked to and it has worked but it really only touches the glass in a few spots. It's enough to keep it in place but a 1.0mm pad might make better contact and transfer heat better.
My Mini's heat bed seems to be lower in the centre so my glass mostly only makes contact at the corners, since yours is higher in the centre you might have an issue with the glass resting on the centre and rocking side to side. If you have this issue you might be able to use pieces of thinner silicone pad in the centre and pieces of a thicker pad in the corners.
Also you don't need to completely fill the gap between the heat bed and glass with thermal pad, doing so will make it difficult to remove the glass. Ideally you want it to stay in place while printing but pop off with a little force when lifted.
I don't have a particular recommendation. I bought this, but it was just the first one I tried, so I don't have a basis for comparison. Note that this is way too much, so if you can find a smaller sheet, you could save a bit of money.
The glass does take longer to warm up, and one downside to having glass in general is that the thermistor doesn't know the temperature of the glass, it only knows the temperature of the aluminum bed. I just preheat for an extra minute or so, I haven't seen any issues with that.
I haven't noticed anything in particular about thermal conduction.
The great thing about glass is that it is flat with even pressure. It will bend some if clamped down onto a non-flat surface. some people say that PEI on glass is the ultimate surface for printing. I personally favor AquaNet hairspray on glass held on with thermal pads.
I have a Maker Select and that glass. I used this to adhere the glass to the bed: http://www.amazon.com/400mm-205mm-Silicone-Thermal-Heatsink/dp/B007PPEW52/ It's adhesive and holds the glass well. I just cut the thermal mat in half and it's the perfect size. I didn't bother cutting it into little squares as I've seen others do but it works just fine.
Glass bed with Aquanet super hold hairspray (a couple of light coats) and I never have bed adhesion problems.
When I bed level, I use one sheet of paper folded over (so 2 thicknesses). I level so that I feel significant drag on the paper - more than you'd think. That way the first layer is well squished onto the bed.
It is almost a must do if you want to use your whole bed, the aluminium warps and it is impossible to level. Make sure to put .5mm thermal pads and don't use clips to hold the glass. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PPEW52?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00
With four 1.5" piece cut and placed at the corners the glass no longer requires clamping and stays put until you're ready to remove the print if it happens to adhere especially well.
Just get this a silicone thermal pad and cut it up into squares, and call it a day. The adhesion is enough that it will hold the glass in place, but not so much you can't pull it off to clean it. Also, join us on the DI3 facebook group (it's very active).
And my fan as well has the same exact split haha.
Here's the pad. If I were to reapply it again, I would cut it to the footprint of the glass less 5mm per side because with the PEI build surface the areas that don't contact the pad are 10-15C cooler.
I'm thinking I'm going to build this Ikea enclosure I saw on another thread, and in that design the filament comes in from the top so I'll probably go with the guide you linked.
Good call on the Z Axis. I'll go with that one as well.
Just to make sure you saw it, they sell the block separately as well.
I read about the warping issue in other threads. The best solution I saw discussed was using these silicone heat sink pads instead of clamping the glass to the aluminum heat bed. Since the bed only moves in 2 axis you don't have to worry about it moving in Z.
My new toy is supposed to arrive on Tuesday. Should've been this week, but Monoprice really let me down on shipping. 3-5 days my ass.
As an alternative and because I had the same issue, a removable glass bed is another option. Here's how I did it. The glass is ordinary "replacement window glass" from the local big box hardware store. They sell 10"x12" sheets that I cut (or have them cut) into a pair of 10"x6" sheets. Perfect fit front to back with a little overhang on the sides to make it easy to remove. Use 0.5mm thick thermal pads cut to 1" squares and distributed over the surface. The pads stick really well to Kapton so the glass doesn't shift during use but it can be easily lifted off when the print is finished.
Most times the print will self release when the glass cools. Stubborn prints may need a few minutes in the freezer after the glass has cooled to room temperature.
Keep the glass clean. For adhesion I prefer All Weather Unscented Aquanet Extra Super Hold. ABS juice, glue sticks, etc. also work well.
Remove the right extruder
Add a offset spacer to the right side of the left extruder - extruder will crash if you don't do this as it can't reach the limit switch before the carriage hits the bracket
Add the Dreamer fan or similar to the left side - optional, you just need cooling
get a single extruder carriage. I got mine from from Raffle.ch who is no longer in business. Just search single extruder carriage for makerbot replicator 2x or something to that and tons will come up. I'd recommend aluminum, but only because I didn't trust the plastic options.
Longer X belt - GT2 I believe, amazon has tons of options
8x12 borocilicate plate from Mcmaster PN : 8476K84
Silicone Thermal Pad - This distributes the heat a bit better since you'll have a good amount of overhang. amazon
Kapton tape - Place a layer sticky side down on the steel/ceramic bp, Make sure it's nice and flat, then stick the silicone pad to the bottom of the Glass BP, then stick that to the kapton. It won't move after that but it can be removed if needed. (Don't ask, it just works rediculously well)
Glass BP offset https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:452367
and then the tough part, you have to tweak the slicer settings to recognize that it has a larger BP. I'd shoot you my Simplified 3D settings but I'm not at home. It's not too complicated but I recall having a hard time with it. Flashforges uses the center of the BP as 0 and not the front left corner like repraps. So you'll have to do a little thinking here. Also, the tool head has an offset, I don't recall if the right extruder is 0 or -XXmm but you'll have to take that into account too.
Last thing you'll need is to cut your heatsink in half, the big aluminum bar that the hot ends fit in. make sure you cut it such that you have the two holes for the strain relief screws still intact, you'll need these for the offset spacer.
Not that I recall, but I bought a pretty early version of the Monoprice Maker Select when they dropped the price a few years ago, and the glass bed was one of my first additions.
The mod isn't difficult. I had a 16"x24" piece of window glass cut into four 8" squares. They did it at the hardware store (Lowe's iirc) for no extra charge.
The squares lay on the bed using four 1" (or so) thermal pads. I bought a sheet of the stuff from Amazon and just cut what I needed. It occasionally tears, so I replace it a couple of times per year. Using the thermal pad eliminates the need for binder clips or something more elaborate to hold the glass on the printer's bed.
The Z-Stop adjuster I used is so old that I probably wouldn't use it today. Just search Thingiverse and pick one you like. There are some nice designs out there.
Here's the process I would follow:
I use this stuff on my WanHao glass bed. Not sure if I'll go with glass bed on the Ender, thinking about going with the magnetic build surface for this printer.
Should be. This is the smaller size that I've used here: https://www.homedepot.com/p/10-in-x-12-in-x-0-09375-in-Clear-Glass-91012/300068325. Looks like the same material.
I routinely preheat to 110C for ABS and I've probably gone higher when experimenting but can't swear to that.
Soda lime float glass is very flat, possibly the cheapest per unit of flatness (if that's a thing). However it can break from striking and also from thermal stress. Never go right from the heated bed to the freezer. Once it has fully cooled to room temperature and then only if some extra encouragement is needed, toss it into the freezer.
I use "gino pads" cut to small (1"x1") squares as the bonding surface between the glass and the Kapton surface on the HBP. Pretty sure that this was what I got last time I ordered some. A matrix of the squares about 1/4" apart bonds well, has decent heat transfer, sticks to the glass, and the whole thing is removable.
I use this thermal pad:
it seems to greatly help distribute the heat vs just glass clipped on bed
This is the one I got
True that. A lot of people (raises hand) use these or similar. I usually buy the larger size and cut it down to 1" / 25mm squares and space them across the bottom of the glass.
Binder clips can bend the glass and the nozzles can collide with them. Silicone pads are so much nicer.
Super well! Like glue really, I don't even use the glass plate clamps.
Amazon link 400mm x 205mm x 0.5mm Silicone Thermal Pad for CPU GPU Heatsink https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007PPEW52?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf
These are the ones I'm using. They're cheap and last forever.
The borosilicate is what I have on my Maker Select v2.1. I use Aqua Net Unscented (Purple can) and it works great. When the glass is cool, the prints just pop off (PLA, bed temp 60°). I am using https://smile.amazon.com/400mm-205mm-Silicone-Thermal-Heatsink/dp/B007PPEW52 with nine 1" square pads (perimeter and center)
Here is my setup.
This is the silicone. It comes in a sheet and I just cut 50mm squares :)
Hope this helps. Sorry for the late reply to the late question! Happy printing!
Something like this? Certainly seems like what I'm looking for.
You need to raise your z end stop in order to accommodate for the glass.
Make sure you order some silicone pad too.
400mm x 205mm x 0.5mm Silicone Thermal Pad for CPU GPU Heatsink https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007PPEW52/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_hgUAybNGCXQBT
You need some thermal pads(https://www.amazon.com/400mm-205mm-Silicone-Thermal-Heatsink/dp/B007PPEW52/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435448186&sr=8-1&keywords=gino%20pad) roughly 1"x1" to put under the 4 corners of the bed. This will raise the glass bed up by 0.5mm and will prevent a warped aluminum bed from influencing the leveling process. Heat the bed up and clip some binder clips on the 4 corners over the thermal pads. Let it sit for a few minutes. This ensures the pads are compressed and in full contact with the 4 corners of the bed. Once you are ready to level the bead, the clips can be removed. The pads are sticky enough where the glass bed won't slide off while printing. With a glass bed, you need to apply a material the plastic will still to. This can be a glue stick, Auqua Net hairspray(brand is important https://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Net-Unscented-Aerosol-Spray-11/dp/B002K33AFM) or a sheet of PEI. Auqua Net hairspray works great, but needs recoating after a few prints.
Thx for the tips. I ordered one of these to place under the glass was it a good choice? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PPEW52/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Add these to your springs and it will help significantly on tension since the stock setup tends to be loose when it comes to leveling. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1374667 I also removed the black MonoPrice Build pad and replaced it with https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PPEW52/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I got mine from Amazon:
I second the Monoprice Maker Select. I picked one up a few weeks ago, impulse buy, with the specific purpose of D&D related items. I am currently doing exactly what you plan to do. The only difference between us is that I didn't make a post. I just bought first and asked later.
I'm very satisfied with it, but you need to temper your expectations for miniatures. I have printed dozens and I'm still dialing in the settings and making changes in order to get an "acceptable" mini. Your minis will not be smooth. They will not be well detailed. If I remember I'll take a picture of a dire bear I printed last night - my first print with a .25mm nozzle (smaller nozzle = more detail).
They will likely be unpaintable if you want detailed paint jobs. The filament comes out in layers so it's impossible to get a smooth surface. I haven't attempted to paint yet but I can tell you it will be difficult. Also, since it is layered and you can't print into thin air, you need to add supports. The slicing software you use will do this automatically. They are small layers that build up from the surface to, say, the club a goblin is holding. You have to snap them off and they will leave scuff marks. You'll need sand paper, a razor blade, a butane torch, and a steady hand to deal with the tough supports. Most of the time they snap off without doing all that though. I found it infinitely easier to snap them off when I installed a .25mm nozzle to replace the stock .4mm nozzle.
The quality of your minis will be, for all intents and purposes, shitty. Do they function? Fuck yeah. My friends love them, even unpainted. Much better than folded paper, coins, and cardboard.
Terrain and props is where this printer shines. Go on thingiverse and search openforge2. There are hundreds of pieces of terrain available. I've printed all sorts of terrain and it always comes out great. I printed some barrels and crates as well and those are amazing. I haven't had enough time (these things take hours to print) to do enough terrain to really use it in a game but I did use it for one room and my players loved it.
If you decide to take the plunge, my suggestion is a Monoprice Maker Select, buy this thermal pad and adhere it to this piece of glass. That improved my life the most so far. I also bought this nozzle in .25mm for more detailed prints. Go on thingiverse and print a filament guide of your choice (I use this one and it's really simple and works great), some adjustable feet, z-braces, and review this thread. I'm still working on mods, the z-braces took nearly 30 hours to print. A ton of people use a raspberry pi and Octoprint for theirs. I highly suggest plugging in via USB (it's a mini usb port). I have a laptop next to my printer that I have octoprint installed on and it works well. No need for a raspberry pi if you have a dedicated machine there imho.
Just grabbed one of these. Should be easily cut down to the size I need, and according to the reviews, it's a pretty good one.
Thanks for the idea!
I have the same printer and had issues with bed flatness. If you're down to move to glass, I'd recommend the square https://folgertech.com/products/borosilicate-glass-print-surface-200mm-round-and-square-3mm
and one of
I'm using it on top of the build surface that came with it (never bothered to remove the factory one), and the silicone just sticks the glass down plenty. Would probably work fine on the bare aluminum too.
My Maker Select came with a small putty knife. Maybe don't need the removal tool. Definitely skip on the z brace kit. That's too much. Hardware stores have the parts you need for < $5. Glass and thermal pad are slightly cheaper on Amazon (I used https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PPEW52 and https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QQ5Q3BI).
I seem to recall seeing some issues with Inland filament, though I can only find this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/4owjlc/inland_microcenter_brand_pla_issues_is_this_not/
I <3 BAMtack. It's inexpensive, prints well, doesn't have any strange odors (or much of an odor at all, for that matter), and is packaged well (vacuum bag with desiccant inside). I print mostly with their natural color PLA (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016EFX8Y4), but I have a friend that prints with their colored PLAs all the time and he loves it.
I had a hard time with the DiiCooler mod, mainly because I still couldn't see the part printing very well. I opted for http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1246425 instead. Uses the same fan and everything, but it's a much easier print, and it gives you complete visibility in the front.
You may also be interested in taking a look at the mod list on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS8u_oqNH7A. It's pretty impressive.
Yes, glass will fix this. Buy https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PPEW52 and https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QQ5Q3BI + a can of Aqua Net (unscented) hair spray at the grocery store. Put the silicone under the glass, put a light coating of Aqua Net on the glass, and you're good. Plus, printing on glass gives the bottom sides of your print a very nice smooth & reflective surface.
Your Y-Carriage is bent. This is a well known issue with Wanhao Duplicator I3. Its thin (2mm?) aluminum and will eventually warp the front right corner over time. You can fix it temporarily by removing the bed, and gently bending the corner back. A more permanent fix is replacing the Y carriage.
Replace your Z-axis endstop with a Screwless Z-Endstop. I had to do this and when I added a borosilicate glass bed. This also will help with the warping of the Y-carriage, as you can adjust it to where you wont have to crank down on the front right thumbscrew so much. Also, you might try leveling your X-Axis. Sometimes one of the rails the Y-axis rides on is unlevel, and this will help (or you can try leveling the rails).
Hold your new glass bed in place with Thermal Silicone Pads. They help transfer the heat and keep your glass bed in place without clips.
Hope this helps! Good luck. PM me if you have any other questions.
It's a Monoprice Maker Select, a duplicator clone.
The fan shroud is the Diiicooler by pawpawpaw85 with a blower fan. Fantastic mod, I can't run the fan above 55% without hotend temperature issues.
I'm adhering the PEI to my glass to start but there are plans to maybe utilize another material like plexi or acrylic for flexibility to help remove parts. Another user suggested using aluminum plates which would be great for heating and cost but I'm not entirely sold yet.
The glass is held to the bed using thermal pads (basically the thermal paste you find on the bottom of heatsinks).