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Who Wrote the Bible??
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Richard Friedman's Who Wrote the Bible? has a chart in the Appendix that lets you do just that, with your own book.
To see the Appendix, go here to Amazon's US page. Click the book cover picture to Look Inside. On the left, click the Search magnifying glass, then type Appendix. All of it is there from this preview, page 246-255.
Who wrote the Bible? Book by Richard Elliott Friedman Is exactly what you are looking for. It deals with the Hebrew (old) testament the historical conditions under which it was written.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
Richard Friedman's "Who Wrote the Bible" (a secular bible scholar) helped me understand what shaped much of the bible stories and perspectives. I'd recommend it if you are seeking answers and understanding, rather than mere reassurance.
https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
What do you think about the height of pillars one. Or baths of the sea.
Its pretty easy to be unconsciously biased, or self deceive by confirmation bias - that is why an objective set of discrepancies was taken.
I think your chariot explanation is looking a bit too deep. It literally says 7000 parash and 700 parash.
Same with the killed by spear vs not - do you think a single spear could kill 300 people at one time? Killed three hundred people by his spear was a phrase. Of the culture at the time. It seems a bit weird (at least, to me) that they would count, oh you killed 300 many with this weapon, and this many with another.
Yeah its ok I already have many Christian books about the Quran. Back when I was trying to bring them to Christianity. [Edit - I actually have that book - I bought it back in 2014!]
You sound like you really like to read?
Richard Friedman's "Who Wrote the Bible" is my favorite book about Christianity (well, at least, the OT). The Truth should be able to stand up under scrutiny. (If you're keen but poor, but have a kindle, I'd be willing to gift you a kindle ebook). One warning though - for me, it was kind of like the red pill from The Matrix. I knew my bible stories well. But not WELL until I could see the ancient people and politics. It will make you understand the OT like I had previously but seen through a glass dimly.
https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
Right before I left the church, I was Gospel Doctrine teacher. It was my favorite calling. I loved teaching.
Not sure what I can add to the list of pharisaical things Mormons do, but I will throw this out there if you're teaching about the OT. I just got finished reading "Who Wrote the Bible?", and it was very enlightening. Helped the OT make more sense: the short version (which I hadn't gotten from other sources) is that the Torah was a compilation of two different sources, one pro-Judah and one pro-Israel that got written after Israel was divided after Solomon died. They cut and pasted each story side by side. The compilation likely happened after the Babylonian Exile, which would have been after Lehi btw.
Oh wait, if you're in UT, you could mention the on one hand anal way people drive (never let people in because they should have seen the yellow line) combined with utter social cluelessness (I know I'm where I'm supposed to be, so even if I'm doing 50 in the fast lane, not my problem).
> "Who Wrote the Bible?" by Richard Elliot Friedman beforehand
I did not do this, but by the time I'd read "The Early History of God", I was already well aware of the multiple pagan origins of [edit] much of the bible, the two creation stories in the book of Genesis, the astrological significance of the "12" tribes of Israel, the volcanic origins of some of the Israelites' god's characteristics & rituals, and more.
I'm going to check that book out, though - here's a readable preview of it:
http://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
Keeping in mind that amazon likes to sell books... I assume you buy used books whenever possible?
Some of it is political, yes. Not all of it, but more than most people realize. I'm not an expert so o have to be careful with what I state is true!
My info above mostly came from this really interesting book Who Wrote The Bible by Richard Friedman. The four authors theory is pretty well known and widely accepted. This book lays it all out in a great overview.
This is an excellent post. Very well informed, and well written! I like the analogy too, didn't feel too strained to me.
To piggyback on this, a great book i highly recommend to anyone interested in the history of the bible (history of the book itself) is Who Wrote The Bible? by Dr. Richard Friedman. His book only discusses the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament for anyone who is unfamiliar), and explains how we can draw conclusions, and what these conclusions are.
For example, he discusses the JEDP theory of writers, who might have pieced it all together (the big theory is that it was the prophet Jeremiah, if i recall correctly), WHY each writer wrote what they did, etc. The why part explains some biblical contradictions, such as the two separate flood accounts, and the fact that one book says only a certain tribe can have priests, but another book says that priests can come from any tribe.
So how did they merge?
This is where I might ruffle some feathers.... It all depends on what you believe. But most scholars agree there were multiple authors of the Torah, (first 5 books of Old Testament). I coooouuuuuld spend another hour explaining J, E, P, D, & the revisionist... but I don't want to. It's really complicated and honestly I'd probably fumble the ball on a lot of it. Why is that important to your question? Well it answers a lot of the El / YHWY stuff pretty well due to Israel and Judah being 2 separate kingdoms during 8(ish) BC. If you want to dive into all that I'd recommend "Who Wrote The Bible" by Richard Freidman followed by "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Frankstein. If you choose to read these buy them off thriftbooks.com, You can buy them for like $5. https://www.thriftbooks.com/
https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136
Hello and welcome! Here are my recommendations for de-indoctrinating yourself:
Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.
Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman
Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong
Watch this talk from Sam Harris where he explains why "free will" is likely an illusion, which debunks the entire premise of "the fall of man" as presented by most Christian religions.
Watch this video on the Cordial Curiosity channel that teaches how the "Socratic Method" works, which essentially is a way to question why we believe what we believe. Do we have good reasons to believe them? If not, should we believe them?
Watch this video by Theramin Trees that explains why we fall for the beliefs of manipulative groups in the first place.
This video explains why and how childhood indoctrination works, for those of us born-in to a high-control group.
Another great source is this youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.
Next, learn some science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.
Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne.
Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins.
Watch this series where Aron Ra explains in great detail how all life is connected in a giant family tree.
Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking.
Learn about critical thinking from people like Michael Shermer, and how to spot logical fallacies.
For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline.
Read The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker.
Watch this Ted Talk by Hans Rosling, the late Swedish Statistician, where he shows more evidence that the world is indeed becoming a better place, and why we tend to wrongly convince ourselves otherwise.
I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that we can use to become more knowledgeable people.
You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--
Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."
For those who find themselves in a similar predicament, where the indoctrination rears it's ugly head, I offer the following advice:
Take some time, if you haven't had the chance, to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.
Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman
Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong
Watch this talk from Sam Harris where he explains why "free will" is likely an illusion, which debunks the entire premise of "the fall of man" as presented by most Christian religions.
Watch this video on the Cordial Curiosity channel that teaches how the "Socratic Method" works, which essentially is a way to question why we believe what we believe. Do we have good reasons to believe them? If not, should we believe them?
Watch this video by Theramin Trees that explains why we fall for the beliefs of manipulative groups in the first place.
This video explains why and how childhood indoctrination works, for those of us born-in to a high-control group.
Another great source is this youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.
Next, learn some science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.
Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne.
Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins.
Watch this series where Aron Ra explains in great detail how all life is connected in a giant family tree.
Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking.
Learn about critical thinking from people like Michael Shermer, and how to spot logical fallacies.
For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline.
Read The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker.
Watch this Ted Talk by Hans Rosling, the late Swedish Statistician, where he shows more evidence that the world is indeed becoming a better place, and why we tend to wrongly convince ourselves otherwise.
I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that you can use to become a more knowledgeable person.
You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--
Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."
There could very well be three or four broad layers of the Priestly School ("Rabbi P").
Poetic P
Prosaic Pre-Exilic
Holiness School
Post-Exilic
https://books.google.ca/books?id=pnHhCwAAQBAJ
https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
https://www.thetorah.com/article/the-animal-laws-before-kashrut-a-system-of-purity
I am synthesizing what Gaines, Friedman, and Feinstein have argued.
This book is commonly recommended as an introduction to it.
https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
This is another decent one: https://www.amazon.com/Forged-Bart-D-Ehrman-audiobook/dp/B004T7AKUA
The second one is targetted to lay audiences. Here's his academic version on a very similar topic: https://www.amazon.com/Forgery-Counterforgery-Literary-Christian-Polemics/dp/B00HQ0SQ3U
You can also check out /r/AcademicBiblical - they talk about this stuff every day. Same with /r/AskBibleScholars.
This blog has a lot of academically-inspired content on the history and text of the Bible. https://isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/
If you prefer video, this channel is by a user of this subreddit, and he has very good content. https://www.youtube.com/user/benwniu
You can believe what you want to believe but i am quoting experts not pastors and apologetics. Even the gospel of John wasn't written in the first century. I don't know why you bring in the Muslims like they are the only ones who disagree with Christianity. The Bible has some serious errors and I wasn't talking about spelling mistakes. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0E6loeTlUNQ The link above tells how a group of NT scholars concluded that 82% of what Jesus said according to the Bible is not true. The Tanach is not so innocent either. It's actually worse according to this scholar who wrote about the Torah. https://www.amazon.ca/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
You can believe what you want to believe but i am quoting experts not pastors and apologetics. Even the gospel of John wasn't written in the first century. I don't know why you bring in the Muslims like they are the only ones who disagree with Christianity. The Bible has some serious errors and I wasn't talking about spelling mistakes. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0E6loeTlUNQ The link above tells how a group of NT scholars concluded that 82% of what Jesus said according to the Bible is not true. The Tanach is not so innocent either. It's actually worse according to this scholar who wrote about the Torah. https://www.amazon.ca/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
For those N=3 of you who are interested in my Biblical history posts, note that Richard Elliot Friedman has recently uploaded a lecture series to Youtube. So far it has around 30 hours of content, mostly concerning the material in Genesis through Deuteronomy, with some lectures stretching into the material of Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings.
R.E. Friedman is the author of Who Wrote the Bible? (1987), a book that outlines the Documentary Hypothesis in the context of the historical/archaeological Israel and Judah c.1200-400 BCE. He is a scholar, and takes a critical view of Biblical origins, but I would characterize him as one of the "kinder" or more "maximalist" scholars. He is willing to claim, for example, that the prophet Jeremiah and the priest Ezra wrote (or edited) significant portions of the Torah.
!ping CHRISTIANITY you might be interested
Exodus was written hundreds of years after it was said to. Almost a thousand I believe. It was Ezra who fabricated the story, when Ezra was tasked to create a culture out of two nations that used to hate each other.
Israel used the word Elohim (God), and Judah used YHWH (Jehovah). Israel and Judah were never united until Ezra's day "post exhilic". But Ezra had to find a way to weave their culture together and that's how he did it. Taking all of the myths and lore from their oral traditions, their historical records which he had access to and completely fabricated the Torah. They know this, because whenever Exodus mentions a trade route or an animal or a landmark, all of those never existed until the 3rd century CE. Oh and there was NEVER a population of Hebrews in Egypt before the 3rd CE. Never.
Edit: Example - Philistines. We were all taught that the Philistines were at war with David. But archaeological finds show conclusively that they never arrived in any discernible numbers until the 3rd CE. Same with the Edomites. It's all from a 3rd century perspective.
I recently bought a book, that I haven't yet read, which was recommended and had lots of good reviews on amazon called "Who wrote the Bible". Here is the amazon link.
> The Bible was still legit
Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.
Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman
Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong
Next, learn some actual science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website.. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.
Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne
Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins
Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read works by Stephen Hawking
Read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking
Learn about critical thinking from people like Michael Shermer, and how to spot logical fallacies.
I believe this is the book you're looking for:
Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliot Friedman
It tells the history behind the Old Testament.
For the New Testament, check out Jesus, Interrupted by Bart Ehrman. It's a good introduction to the problems of the NT.
One of the few books I've read twice, and I enjoyed it even more the second time.
http://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
A good book on the origins of the bible, spoilers: wasn't written by one man or during a single time period, well worth the read.
No. There is no validity to this.
King David was likely a fictional character but even if he existed the writings in the Hebrew Bible were written at different times between 900 -165 BCE. King David was said to have existed c. 1000 CE. So he would have had to have written about future events.
According to Jewish tradition the Hebrew Bible was written by Moses before he died. Again there is no historical evidence for Moses, he is a fictional character and is said to have existed c. 1200 BCE, so according to Judaism he wrote about past and future events. Which is clearly impossible. But, religious deals with faith, not truth.
The Bible is not also not just one book, but an entire library, with stories, songs, poetry, letters and history. All written at different times with different agendas. Some of them were oral stories passed down, others were complied by different people with an ideological agenda.
If you are interested in reading about when the Bible was actually complied you can read this very easy to read and accessible book by Richard Elliott Friedman, Called ‘Who Wrote the Bible’.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
> First of all, it is a Bible study for men.
I know from that - that it is not. Real bible study is a book like <em>Who Wrote the Bible?</em>
It isn't listening to some con man who claims magic powers to interpret it in a way that suits his prejudices.
> Israel went through periods of depravity, most notably between Adam and Noah when they sought no direction from God.
Israel wasn't even around as a nation between Adam and Noah.
> I would also point out that many of the OT books were written by Moses.
They weren't written by Moses. The Torah was written by several different people. Read "Who Wrote The Bible" if you're interested in learning more. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336056205&sr=8-1
Like any book, start from the beginning. The Pentateuch is probably the most important of the old testament. It also helps knowing some of the stuff the bible was based on, depending on how far you wanna go back, like Epic of Gilgamesh and the story of King Kirtu that the book of Job was based on, or in some way related to.
Richard Carrier also has several books probably worth checking out.
Popular alternatives to Who Wrote the Bible?
The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts
The Lost World of Genesis One: Ancient Cosmology and the Origins Debate (The Lost World Series, Volume 2)
