I have not asked them recently whether their impressions have changed with time. It’s fair to say that there was some degree of Emperor’s New Clothes going on at the time. I raised some concerns privately with them, but was not shouting “THIS IS SO FUCKED UP” from the rafters, and was not confident to do so until time had passed.
One thing that may have impacted our different responses is that my friends were progressive Christians, and I’ve never been religious. There are some clear parallels to Christian theology that showed up in this training. and my theory has always been that it hijacked their religion receptors. “You are born tainted and evil, and you must seek forgiveness that you will never deserve or be worthy of, etc.” I felt some pride—in a “Great Minds Think Alike” kind of way—when one of my intellectual crushes, John McWhorter, landed on the same idea a few years later and [wrote a whole book about it]https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=e8a5e6d2-e081-4b96-b843-714b0cb3f785
Read this and tell me if you feel the same about it afterwards. It's written by a liberal black scholar.
John McWhorter recently wrote a book about this topic. As for background, he's a black professor of linguistics at Columbia. Generally his politics would probably place him in the "old liberal" category, but of course nowadays anyone who goes off script is far-right. Most of his recent critiques focus on the new strain of left wing activism that has all the markings (as he puts it) of a new religion.
They're confusing Twitter with real life and exclusively producing woke garbage, which then quickly kills off the audience, e.g. Reply All and Radiolab. I would recommend /r/BlockedAndReported but then again, all you're getting there is the same subjects (albeit from a sane point of view).
I'm in search of the same thing.
I agree about the whole religious aspect - liberals have become the new morality police. But this should not be confused with actual morality. It's more about the subversion of social norms and using traditional religious tactics in a cynical way to impose their will over others. John McWhorter, a black linguist and author, recently wrote a book about this very subject:
Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America
I think he's on to something. Race is sort of the lever, which allows you to move seamlessly into areas like climate change, vaccines, gender, etc. Disagree with vaccine mandates? You're a white, Trump-loving redneck from Alberta (even if you're a black guy from Toronto). In other words, you're a sinner, so you can be punished, or marginalized. Ironically, it's even worse for people of colour, because if they fall out of line then they are not just ignored by liberals, but also deemed traitors to their race. That's a pretty sinister shaming tactic, but it often works (or else they wouldn't employ it so much).
The person who he is interviewing does present a very compelling argument. It's John McWhorter. You're probably better off just getting his book: Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America.
https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
Although he is clearly a fucking dunce there is some debate to be had on just one of the points he made.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
A really interesting book written by a black Columbia University professor that makes a very interesting argument that being ultra woke is a new type of religion.
Also check out this fantastic book on modern day racism in order to further educate yourself: Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America by John McWhorter
> Progressive wants to start a conversation, woke wants to ~~start an argument~~ make you publicly affirm your belief in the woke religion or be cast out of society for heresy.
More likely, their lack of ability to prevent criticism of the First Church of Woke.
> Can you name anyone that’s been successfully cancelled?
The list is endless. Here are some examples. You can google list of canceled people cancel culture and you'll find a virtually unending stream. But since you want a name, I will mention Alison Roman. Scroll down to see the "controversy". I mentions her because professor John McWhorter (who's black btw) wrote a whole book about this called Woke Racism, and started it with her story. Great book too.
The gospels of all religions are riddled with errors. Even wokeism. The best you can get is internal consistency.
Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593423062/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_T2N1EPYRYRQ93CJV7PZR
You’re positive terms describing “woke” and negative terms describing “slept” are just branding. You need to look beyond that if you are asking honestly about criticisms (that said, I’m sure plenty of people who treat wokeness as some sort of boogeyman without trying to understand it do fit that definition of “slept”).
John McWhorter, a (black) professor of linguistics at Columbia, New York Times columnist, and an expert on race relations and African-American culture has a book you might be interested in. On most topics he is about as liberal as they come, but he is an outspoken critic of wokeness because he views it as damaging to black communities and culture.
You might want to read this: https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
Can you read?!
In my previous two responses, I said if I had any institutionally reinforced bias it was IN FAVOR of the idea of “systemic racism.” The idea that racism was the only cause for black underachievement was the only idea I was exposed to up until college. It wasn’t until I saw Linguist John McWhorter on Penn & Teller’s Bullshit discussing reparations that I have ever been exposed to a contrary opinion on the subject.
You say that we can’t ignore history, at what point did I ignore history? Was it the part where I said that the opium laws in this country were explicitly designed to target the Asian American community? Was it the part where I said that many of the most negative habits we see in African American culture today can be traced back to the culture of Scotch/Irish immigrants in the Antebellum south? Was it the part we’re I said Japanese Americans had all of their property confiscated and were forcibly relocated based solely on their ethnic heritage? Gee! That sounds like someone who is biased in favor of defending the institutionalization of white supremacy in the United States!
If you want some more history, how about when leftist groups like the NWRO in the late 1960s encouraged thousands of black Americans to sign up for welfare payments they previously didn’t believe they need, thus creating a dependency.
Or of the instance in 1987 where a rich donor gave 112 black children from underprivileged homes a fully funded college education along with tutors, after-school programs, summer programs, etc. The only condition was that they did not commit any crimes or have children before getting married. “Forty-five of the kids never made it through high school. Thirteen years later, of the sixty-seven boys, nineteen were felons; the forty-five girls had sixty-three total children, and more than half had their babies before the age of eighteen.” Similar
As McWhorter states in his recent book ‘Woke Racism: How A New Religion Betrayed Black America’ he states, “The story of how black inner cities got to the state they were in by the 1980s is complex and has nothing to do with blame. However, to simply frame the issue as a “racism” that requires “elimination” now simply solves no problems.”
Here's his latest book.
https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
He's a professor of Linguistics at Columbia. Has regular op-eds in the NY Times.
Reddit really is an embarrassing place.
And you wonder why wokeness is widely considered to be a religion.
During 2020's great race reckoning, the 3 best-selling contemporary CRT books (all by academics or storied authors) were:
CRT is the routine abuser of the 'Motte and Bailey' fallacy, and can be notoriously hard to pin down. I will also stick to CRT as a sociological concept and not CRT as a legal concept. (None of the laws being discussed care about the legal study of CRT). If you have issues with me picking out these 3 books, then complain to goodreads/crt.
My book club covered all 3 books, so I have a fair understanding of each of them.
John's representation of CRT is one-dimensional and misses why people dislike it to such a degree. So, I will lay out the main criticisms/divisions in simple points.
Some may disagree with me on these lines, but each of the 3 books I mentioned above either explicitly or implicitly have consensus on which side of this divide they fall on.
I find myself agreeing with a more traditional understanding of equality and academic study, instead of the CRT version of it. I know many well meaning people who believe the same. Labelling all of them as racists just because Tucker Carlson has decided to pick on a bastardized definition of it, is a bad-faith argument.
I would also like to make the distinction vs CRT and relativism. Moral + cultural relativism are well established ideas that no-one is arguing against. CRT on the other hand, people have issues with.
Unexpected from some, the biggest opposition for CRT comes from moderates. But, it makes perfect sense, because it is completely antithetical to 90s anti-racism.
I assume you're referring to John McWhorter's book?
Oh wait. You mean the party that literally started the KKK? The party that voted against civil rights? You mean the party that had KKK members in it and were life long democrats until they died?
Or the party that has been running Chicago since 1931?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor_of_Chicago
That have been running Detroit since 1962?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Detroit
San Francisco since 1964?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor_of_San_Francisco
By the way the cities have done wonders for the minority communities.
The party of the elite and the rich?
https://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-in-debt/economic-demographics-democrats/#Income
The party that pushed the for the entrapment and generational poverty due to the welfare state?
The road to hell is paved in good intentions.
You’ll say Thomas Sowell is racist or something however he’s a new book for you to read
https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
Angsty teen atheists? What about highly educated college professors? McWhorter makes a long, compelling and detailed argument that this stuff is, indeed, a religion.
It's possible we're actually witnessing the birth of a new religion that will outlast us all and shape the future of humanity in ways we can only imagine.
https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
The book is called Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America
And here’s a liberal saying the same thing: https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
Wokeism is just another one of the informal nouns for the rise of a new cultish radical anti-racism ideology. Emphasis of radical as anti-racism is a good thing.
That book describes the 'wokeism' quite accurately. As someone who strives for higher, progressive ideals, I'm staunchly against wokeism. I liked the book.
Extreme left ideology. Linguist John McWhorters new book defines the ideology very clearly and even goes as far as to call it a new religion.
https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062/
Taboo words, hunting heretics, beliefs that are not supported by evidence, etc. There are a lot of things.
Sounds like you would enjoy this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062/ref=nodl_
About the book/author:
> It’s not a religion
Yes, it is. Just read John McWhorter's new book.......
https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
It is religion. That is, it’s about faith and not logic.
Woke Racism is a decent primer on the subject. I recommend it.
Here is a small interviewer with the author John McWhorter.
He makes a lot of sense in his book, and helped me connect a few dots on why this new woke-ism religion is so attractive to many people.
No need to wait, John McWhorter wrote an excellent book on this very topic called Woke Racism, enjoy!
I think indulging people too much can rob them of agency.
The combination of having low expectations (which people will live down to), paired with this idea that we have to accept uncritically whatever someone says, is where we're going astray. It actually does a disservice to people who ostensibly need help and empowerment.
(If you read John McWhorter's new book, he tackles this from the racism angle -- how wokism hurts black people -- but his sentiments apply beyond that. I recommend the book, but this related pod with him touches on the victimization issue in particular). It may seem cynical, but I'd broaden his critique to cover the "woke" perspective on economics and other social/cultural issues as well -- and also, in a modified way, to the Tucker Carlson and Fox media approach to teaching white working class grievances. The idea is assuring people that they are under threat and to teach them to keep looking for the threat anywhere and everywhere until they see it, even if it's not really there. Or not as severe as they make it out to be.
>White supremacy and racism have very clear definitions.
In the context of this subreddit, no. I'm not just talking about "applying" them, the words themselves are something that there have been dozens of threads about. It's not at all as clear as you seem certain it is.
In general, again, just plain no. Especially with racism. At minimum, you have some required reading to do on this front in the form of Against Murderism.
> had love passed the question of definition a bit based on working definitions proposed by previous commenters.
What?
> If you’re labeling the progression of this conversation as a request for over definition, you’re not understanding me.
I don't think the progression has much to do with it. You seem to have been asking for overdefinition from the start.
>define the characteristics of the cause rather than ambiguous contributing, sufficient, and/or contributing causes to some particular end.
What happens when ambiguity that resists "characteristic" definition is part of the cause? Use the general case, define something that is like that.
>Comparing the word to religious concepts might not be the strong argument you think it is.
I'm pretty sure it's stronger than you think, given that a linguist released a book with that thesis about a week ago. Also, Daoism, like wokeness, is not clearly defined between religion and philosophy. This is part of why I find it such a compelling analogy. I was also implying the following: "The wokeness that can be defined to the satisfaction of /u/dubloons is not the the true wokeness, because they aren't seriously grappling with the postmodern influence and its affect on language.
John McWhorter has a new book on how it's a religion.
https://amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
Go ahead - I stole it, too! From John McWhorter's Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America. It's a damn fine read!
Because anti-racism has become a religious cult. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593423062/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_JDYFEW1SY8KPH3V6NNXK
One for the bad uk library: Woke Racism by John McWhorter
Andrew Sullivan is arguing that we may have reached peak Woke, or at least are close to doing so. I'm getting the same impression. Some reasons I think this are:
A poll suggests Americans born after 1997 are rejecting cancel culture.
The New York Times have taken on noted anti-woke public intellectual John McWhorter as a columnist. McWhorter's books include <em>Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America</em> to be published next month.
I was going to post here, but I didn't realize that this forum is somehow touting black lives matter to seem woke.
Dude, I'm here to ask a question about my noise floor.
Do you do stuff for black people ever beside, like, shut your Reddit sub down?
https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America/dp/0593423062
https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/heritage-explains/woke-corporate-capitalism
You literally didn't think about WHY you posted BLM, you just did it because everyone else was.
Black Lives ALWAYS mattered. ALWAYS.
Black lives are the foundation of, probably, 95% of the music people make with Ableton.
So, you saying that there is "systemic racism" inherent in America because you can point out 3 cases of it when you've done literally zero actual research yourself academically to find out if, in fact, systemic racism caused any of these issues vs
POLICE ISSUES. POLICE TRAINING ISSUES. POLICE PYSCH SCREENING ISSUES.
If you believe systemic racism is AN OVERWHELMING PROBLEM with policing, then show me, academically, how that is true.
Watch as you now BAN ME FOR MY THOUGHTS that don't agree with yours.
You're going to ban a stranger from an Ableton forum for reacting to your thoughts on a forum unrelated to Ableton.
So, essentially, you created the perfect leftist, socialist, Nazi crime where you put a political idea out there, and people who disagree are silenced.
But, thumbs up, you've helped literally zero black people by linking to your own BLM thread, and you blocking me from the Ableton sub for suggesting you're wrong in your asserting ideas you haven't, yourself, researched completely.
Keep your political ideas (and your self directed white shame) somewhere else and realize your wokeness is divisive and unnecessary.
You've hijacked Ableton and made it about your need to assert your white privilege.
Half of the black people I know are sick of these half-hearted Twitter wokeness. You're brining up black oppression on an Ableton board.
You think black people who come to r/ableton want you to remind them of systemic racism?
You think you linking to BLM reminding them that there are issues in the world DOESN'T MAKE YOU INCLUDED IN THE LIST OR PEOPLE WHO REMIND THEM ALL THE TIME so that THEY (the white person) CAN FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES?
You win, now block me, sorry your political games to benefit your own self image is leading you to ruin a forum.