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I'll give you two clues:
a) This is how he's described in the article: "Dr. Zenz, Senior Fellow in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation"
b) "In their captivating account, [Adrian Zens et. al.] take their readers on a fascinating journey through the pages of the Bible, <strong>showing how biblical prophecies from Daniel to Revelation point toward not just one but two raptures</strong>"
Now take a guess at how scientifically this one "study" of his that the CIA and their propagandists here love was conducted. Or go read it and see for yourself.
Truth hurts. Zenz is the source for all the birth rate and forced labour stuff, and he's also a born again Christian who believes, and I am not making this up, that he is on a mission from God to defeat the Chinese Antichrist.
Why don't you buy his book and read all about it? 🙂
Zero evidence. Literally the one reporter who came up with that number is a German Evangelical Christian who thinks 2 raptures are coming. Adrian zenz book is on amazon [link]
Take a look at all of those articles, they refer to the same sources. Just because something is reported through multiple publications doesn't mean it's credible. Namely Adrian Zenz who has been disproven multiple times.
For example, he made the claim that between 2015-2018 80% of all IUDs in China were done in Xinjiang. This was actually a mistranslations because the source shows 8.7% not 80%. [link]
You can read his other credible works such as:
Where he talks about the coming rapture and how Jesus will save believers.
The method used to count the "millions" of Uyghur's in camps were from interviewing EIGHT people and asking them to estimate how many people were being detained in their town.
"CHRD, based in Hong Kong and Washington DC, interviewed dozens of Uyghur people in Xinjiang. Interviewees gave estimates of how many people—ranging from 8% to 20%—were being detained in their towns. It averaged out to 12% and CHRD bumped the percentage down to 10% for a conservative estimate, ultimately giving them 1.1 million Uyghur Muslims imprisoned.
Eye witness testimony can be unreliable. For example a commonly referenced woman named Sayragul Sauytbay tells a different story everytime she's interviewed. In one testimony she said she saw rapes, medical experiments and was beat.
In another she said she didn't see any violence directly.
Regardless, witness testimonies must be taken with a grain of salt, see the Nayirah testimony for example where atrocity propaganda had everyone believing that babies were being thrown out of their incubators: [link]
There's a new cold war going on and your consent is being manufactured just like the Iraq War.
He's a nutcase fundamentalist religious zealot, frankly. I'll allow that it's possible he could also be correct in some of his assertions, but it's definitely rather incredible that he's the main source for many if not nearly all Xinjiang pieces.
>Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”
>Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
>Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled <em>Worthy to Escape</em>: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.
>Zenz predicted that the future fall of capitalism will bring to power the Antichrist within a “few decades.” He identified the force that “will usher the Antichrist into power” as “the economic and financial fall of ‘Babylon,’ with ‘Babylon’ symbolically representing the world’s global economic system (capitalism).”
A fool is somebody who makes claims of genocide when none of the facts support it. I literally linked you research from Italy on the subject, but let's expand on that a bit.
The millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”. CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn't even make sense from logistics perspective. You’d need a detention city the size of San Francisco to detain one million Uighurs.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he's the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I'm talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”
Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it's clear that the methodology of his "research" doesn't pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
There is a clear political angle around the narrative on Xinjiang. For example, here's George Bush's chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here's an excerpt:
>Throughout the 1990s, hundreds of Uyghurs were transported to Afghanistan by the CIA for training in guerilla warfare by the mujahideen. When they returned to Xinjiang, they formed the East Turkistan Islamic Movement and came under Catli's expert direction. Graham Fuller, CIA superspy, offered this explanation for radicalizing the Chinese Muslims:
>The policy of guiding the evolution of Islam and of helping them [Muslims] against our adversaries worked marvelously well in Afghanistan and against the Red Army. The doctrines can still be used to destabilize what remains of Russian power, and especially to counter Chinese influence in Central Asia.
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they've been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. Turns out that a lot of people are gullible enough to fall for this.
Not the OP, but here's some background on Zens and US narrative on Xinjiang.
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they've been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. Finally, worth noting that Italy recently published a research report on Xinjiang issues stating at U.S. seeks geopolitical benefits in the name of human rights.
There is no credible evidence of any sort of genocide happening in Xinjiang. In fact, a recent joint research report on Xinjiang from multiple academic institutions in Italy states that U.S. is exploiting this issue seeking geopolitical benefits in the name of human rights.
It's also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here's George Bush's chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here's an excerpt:
Anybody who still peddles Xinjiang genocide narrative at this point is either utterly ignorant or is willfully spreading misinformation.
this is his book ....
He's not just religious, he's a rapture ready religious nut.
Speaking of Nazis though, Zenz actually works for a right wing propaganda org funded by the US and created by a Nazi collaborator. Specifically he works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation which was created by the National Captive Nations Committee, which was co-chaired by Nazi collaborator Yaroslav Stetsko.
The fact that he works for a right wing US based NGO already should already make you highly skeptical. It's like trusting Breitbart for your info on Obama. On top of that the fact that he doesn't speak Chinese and have never been to China yet is cited by the media as a primary source is highly questionable. I'm just saying you should be very skeptical of anything he says.
>Do you have a source on how all the evidence comes from Zenz?
Not all of it comes from Zenz, he's just one of the main sources, especially for the claim of millions of Uyghurs being incarcerated.
Just looking at the sources citied in the comments on this post we have:
All of these are sources have a vested interest in drumming up opposition to China and with all of them the actual evidence is pretty scant when it comes making claims of genocide. Like I said, it's like trusting Breitbart for your info on Obama.
It's clear there is an increase in surveillance and people are being incarcerated in Xinjiang. This is in response to terrorism by Uyghur nationalists with dozens of terrorist attacks killing hundreds of people. The US is actually drone striking Uyghurs. So I really wonder what people expect China to be doing to combat terrorism here. Should they be bombing people like the US?
>Unfriendly reports in the media, how does this constitute an action by the Australian government which affects China directly?
The information upon which these reports are based is more often than not provided and pushed by ASPI, a think tank that receives the majority of its funding from the Australian Defence Force and other federal government agencies. The media’s uncritical peddling of their hawkish propaganda on behalf of Australian and US military interests creates an environment conducive to acts of aggression by Australia and its allies against the PRC (as was the case with respect to Iraq in 2003). This is not rocket science, and China would have to be either patently stupid or entirely ignorant of history to ignore the intent here - which, clearly, it is not.
>Should Australia do as China does and censor all media to fit an official media?
I'll assume this was delivered ironically, given that even a casual observer of the Australian media landscape over recent years would be aware that this is precisely the direction we’re headed, independent of any alleged interference by the CCP.
>The threat is that China will wage trade war and refuse normal diplomatic relations unless these demands are met, without any reciprocation...
Well in order to reciprocate they'd first have had to initiate a relentless, months-long front-page media campaign criticising Australia's internal governance while citing as evidence 'research' of an apocalypticist fanatic on a mission from God.
>...which is apparently acceptable to certain fifth columnists.
Well I guess I'll go ahead and scratch 'Reds Under The Bed' off my Cold War bingo card! Bless.
Oh yeah, definitely, the guy is 100% nuts. And even if you want to entirely disregard his background there are still the grave methodological errors he regularly makes like mixing up 8% and 80%...
I haven't looked at his latest "research" in depth but I wouldn't be surprised to find the same type of "mistake" that conveniently leads to the same grand claims about oppression etc.
I understand your concern for basic human dignity. Its one that I share of course.
The methodology for the initial discovery is laid out a bit here.
I saw in this section its mentioned how they arrived at such a massive estimate of Uighur detainees. By interviewing only 8 people...
This story seems to have been wildly sensationalized.
Adrien Zenz also apparently wrote a book about how the fall of capitalism will bring the rise of the antichrist? Zenz also apparently views “postmodern relativism and tolerance thinking” and their apparent promotion of homosexuality, gender equality, and non-violent parenting to be threats to Christianity and “[t]he deceptive, leopard-like power behind the Antichrist.”
This of course does not outright discredit these claims.
> A communist telling me somebody's right wing, what a fucking joke
Don't take my word for it. The nutjob wrote a book expressing his own views.
I find the reports of Chinese oppression of Uyghurs very concerning and it is clear that something terrible is happening.
However I think the first point, ie that millions have been rounded up into camps should be treated with a lot of scepticism. The two sources you have given are both untrustworthy and both use inaccurate methods to estimate the amount of people impacted.
As far as I know, this (a report from the US based NGO, CHRD) is the source of the first part of your estimate. It extrapolates the entire region from the testimony of 8 people. That is just not an accurate way to come to the conclusion that 10% of the population of a region with 20 million inhabitants are being detained.
The second part is a source named Adrian Zenz. He is a rapture believing wacko who believes himself to be on a mission from God against China.
His numbers mainly come from an unconfirmed Chinese leak published by a Uyghur separatist media organisation which was republished by Newsweek Japan. That is not a reliable source and he is not a reliable guy.
I got the above information from here: [link]
It seems clear that China is doing something awful to repress a terrorist threat but that is no reason to blindly believe obviously untrustworthy statements as you appear to be doing.
> There is plenty more material out there for you to read
It's time YOU vet your sources.
The main sources behind the Uyghur death camp propaganda is Adrian Zenz. You can see right here on wikipedia.
Zenz is a religious nut who believes TWO raptures are coming. He details it in his book Worthy to Escape.
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they've been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west.
>they are miitarly expanding far into the south china sea and elsewhere, and consitently threaten to invade Taiwan
That might have something to do with the fact that US has China surrounded by military bases and actively promotes a puppet regime in Taiwan. I wonder what US response would be if China started supporting a separatist regime in Texas. US has 800 military bases around the globe and has been at a constant state of war since its inception. On the other hand China's been minding its own business and hasn't gone to war since the 70s.
While US outspends all other major nations combined militarily, China has been investing into building things like a nation wide high speed rail network, and has poured more concrete in a decade than US has in all of 20th century.
>China has no politic freedom, or freedom of press, and "disappear" people who question their regime.
That's also very obviously nonsense since Chinese political system has evolved far more rapidly than our own. If China had zero political freedom and zero dissent then it would stagnate much like our own system is stagnating right now. China also has far more political participation and representation from the public than we could dream of, which is precisely why people are continuously seeing their quality of life increase with every decade while we're seeing the opposite happen.
If democracy is measured as the will of the masses being implemented by the government, then China is far more democratic than vast majority of western nations. A Harvard research center study of long-term public opinion survey finds that vast majority of Chinese citizens approve of their government. Other western sources, such as Bloomberg, cite that China is in fact more democratic than US. Here's another article from Harvard talking about mass public approval of Chinese government. It's also worth looking at the makeup of the party which clearly shows that it's primarily composed of working class people. Meanwhile, this article compares social mobility in US and China.
ok adrian zenz