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Long story short, Abdulhamid received telegrams from his governors and subordinates mentioning massacres committed by the Armenians against peaceful citizens. Abdulhamid despatched his army to crush the Armenian rebels.
However some of his army commited two massacres near the Black Sea.
As far as I know (though I could totally be wrong, I need to double check), Abdulhamid punished the generals behind the massacres.
In any case, as Guenter Lewy correctly notes, there is little evidence to show that Abdulhamid approved of the massacres. All he did is despatch the army to quell a rebellious people. What the army did once they reached the area is a different story, beyond Abdulhamid's power.
Lewy's book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0874808901/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_QE0VJ7ZK3FQ2F2KFB862
To be honest I don't know why people say the Ottomans were horrible in Iraq and many rulers always blame the previous one. For example the CUP blamed Abdulhamid for the bad conditions in Iraq. Yet Iraqis blame CUP as well lol. Nobody looks at the achievements made - and that I think is the problem.
Anyhow, if I had to guess why Iraq was not so good, then the answer could be because Iraq is situated literally in between Sunni & Shia powers. When powers clash bad things happen. But thats just a guess. I'm only aware of two books regarding this subject and the books are expensive and I never read them :P
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1848854250/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_45E611XWHCTYMHDX0MF1
Even I as an Arab find that a bit too cringe. Especially when you put Thomas Lawrence.
You even got Palestinian flag behind Lawrence. The same Lawrence who lied to the Arabs about Palestine.
Whoever made this needs to read history.
Here's a good start: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0300127324/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_JFD51HWZAGXGBB2T6M78
May Allah bless you brother, I advise you to read this https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.com/Al-Ghazali-Disciple-Ghazali-Muhammad-al-Ghazali/dp/0946621632&ved=2ahUKEwjZ4-CKlLftAhWiSxUIHd3eCk0QFjABegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3P4iDz6x3jQhmRmExkeqrf
I read it in Arabic and it was of enormous impact on me, short but rich.
And if you have any questions I will be more than happy to help
I said got to go before but here's a quick reply: because the meme portrays Jews as being innocent/victim which is part of a larger conspiracy to always portray Jews as innocent.
This narrative is simply wrong.
Some people find it outrages to even say "Jewish criminal" or "Jewish terrorist" because they are so brainwashed in the victimhood narrative. The reality is Jews commit and have committed crimes. They were and are perpetrators of violence, terrorism, ethnic cleansing, backstabbing etc. Sometimes they are victims, sometimes they are not.
As for Jews going to India. Well... It wasn't a Hindu kingdom. It was a Muslim kingdom. A famous example is Garcia de Orta, a Jew who had to escape Spain due to the Inquisition - his sister was burnt to death for being a Jew. He sought refuge in Ahmednaggar kingdom (Shia kingdom, not Hindu)
Ref: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1408888823/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_BYYBRGCEFRJPAZ59HCKR
I'd love to know a Jew seeking refuge in a Hindu kingdom. Drop me a link when you can
Ok bye now lol
Not really and quite a self-hating mind as well.
Every society has some rotten apples. Expecting perfection is impractical.
The media (and obviously you're influenced a lot by it) over exaggerates the crimes because it suits them. Far East Asia countries are a cesspit of grooming kids but nobody bothers about them because the government there needs tourism and the countries from which these people come from dont want to expose them.
Its all about blaming one group of people instead of solving the issue.
The issue can be solved easily: stop hyper sexualizing adverts etc; stop sex education at such a young age; keep kids home at a certain time. That way the crime is reduced.
Does this happen? No. Why? Because its not a problem to start with, its just used to blame others & you are an unfortunate victim.
They said the same about West Africans, that they are cannibals and murderers.
Try to think beyond the propaganda. The English government gladly sold 150k children to 3 countries as slaves from 1750's till 2007 to Catholic organisations. Nobody cared and nobody cares. David Cameron, the former PM "apologised" and thats about it.
For more information on the grooming and enslaving and raping of these kids, see this book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0552165328/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_ZA8MJWS1DFF11YBG6HSJ
>Ashoka was born as a Hindu practicing Brahmanism but later converted to Buddhism
True
>also back then Hinduism and Buddhism teachings were absorbed into each other, including stuff like Buddha being an avatar of Vishnu and mythology of Indian Buddhism and Hinduism has a ton of things in common.
Seriously? That sounds messed up though. So there was no actual "Hindu" and "Buddhist" empires? But a melange of ideas which later on became distinct?
>Also Hinduism and Buddhism alongside Jainism lived in harmony back then
Not true. Empires fight each other. Violence raged. The Shunga Empire was born out of butchering the Mauryan Empire. The Hindu scriptures is full of depictions of killings and beheadings. Ashoka, as a Hindu, massacred thousands (then repented) etc.
See this: Political Violence in Ancient India https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0674975278/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_fabc_WN72YRT9NFAVR3BCNFCC
>1919 uprising as an opposite example
You said Egyptians were ok for 70 years. Isn't the 1919 uprising a perfect counter example? Plus that is not the only one, I used the brutal repression of journalists as another excuse. To find out more, you could read British Policy and the Nationalist Movement in Egypt, 1914-1924 by Majid Hussain.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/3879974454/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_YW00MZZ54PNQ21241ADK
>salama mosa
He is not a historian. He's a racist atheist. I would not trust his opinion. Gamal Abdul Naser appointed him as a scientist instructor.
>my point was not that egypt was not silent but it sure was not loud enough why did the egyptains allow them selfs to be quit for 40 years
They did lol and were repressed even more. Take the example of يعقوب صنوع or Abdullah Nadim. They were all not allowed to say anti British stuff. Through repression of journalists to attacking Egyptians, they managed to stay. You had Egyptians who contacted foreigners, like Abdullah Quilliam, complaining about the injustice of the British.
>ever asked your self who was the judge that ruled in the دنشواي incident
Not sure what the relevance is but thats a great example of how Egyptians hated the British. The book I shared, on page 45 and 46 talks about it
> when the one that the english hated the most was Ahmed shouqi guess what he called for ? he was a hard core islamist that refused nagotiating with the English till they are out of Egypt and wanted egypt to return to the caliphate which yeah the ottomans were bad at this point but i do repect the principle .
Good. Another example how you're wrong lol. I never heard of Ahmed Shouqi but what you said about him proves my point 🙃
>In 1669 CE, Emperor Aurangzeb destroyed the temple and built the Gyanvapi Mosque in its place
Damn! I didn't know. I guess that means the temple was a cesspit of extremist Hindus (thats essentially why Aurangzeb destroyed temples. He destroyed about 24-30 altogether). In fact Aurangzeb commissioned the creation of temples himself. Here's a good book on it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1503602575/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_2ZFKRFV1A5KRBH5KENNC
What about the Sarnath Temple though?
Or Dakshinaarka Sun Temple?
Vishnupad Temple?
Mangla Gauri Temple?
Adinatha Temple?
The reality is, plenty of temples survived (others were built during) Muslim dominion. There is an extraordinary and beautiful Buddhist temple built during Muslim power but forgot the name! John Keay mentions it.
>Europeans recognised and apologized for colonialism
Not always, plus, they continue to cause misery. I hope you'll receive the full benefit of their "recognition" 🤣
Plus Muslims label do the same by labelling it as a "sin" or "unislamic" which is a recognition. I myself said that wrongs happened. Unfortunately you're blind to see that, or your brain conveniently shuts down when you read those lines.
Maybe you need to read/watch academic Muslim lectures/books and see the reality for yourself. Islamophobia will lead you nowhere. Never forget, the spin wheel which Gandhi made so famous was introduced by Muslims. So was paper.
Try to live without them, and live as a proper Hindu following your unadulterated culture 🙃
>No, Muslim Emperors didn't "allow" Hindus to have empires
They did and even sided with them. All Muslims had to do was crush them before forming an empire. Easy job, no?
>Hindus resisted and fought for their freedom
I'd love an example of a resistant group, name them if you can. All you can do is name empires which fought against Muslims, Buddhists and even Sikhs. Were they fighting for their freedom from them too?
>start from Wars of Hindu Kingdoms against Ummayad caliphate
Which one? And how on Earth did Hindus fight the Ummayad Caliphate? You mean with King Dahir? Well, Hindus didnt resist. They literally let innocent women be captured and the king didn't care to find them. So Hajjaj - a "pious tyrant" - sent a navy to destroy Dahir for his injustice. Resisting that is criminal, not justice.
>Yeah, perhaps that's why you cannot find a single ancient Hindu temple in the whole gangetic plain
Vishwanat temple...
Sarnath temple...
I could share more but I'm lazy. Even though I don't deny temples were destroyed which was part of the culture of the time (for example Romans destroyed the Jewish temple because the Jewish god "left the temple" and thus Romans destroyed the temple. See this book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0140449647/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_7J7GWVM34BR8GG811GXH).
But you're simply wrong and insist on your wrong!
You could enlighten yourself with this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0141985399/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_FPX754C294E81QT39RPG
>read through centuries of warfare between Hindu and Islamic kingdoms before making such ignorant statement.
🤦♂️ warfare between empires is different to outright genocides just because "they are Hindus". I know warfare happened. My comment makes that clear. Try re reading my comments 🙃
>Black Legend is true:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend_(Spain)
I'm not anti Spanish or anti Catholic. Doesn't apply to me. I simply like truth even if its against Muslim countries/persons.
The Spanish did exterminate Native Americans.
The Spanish did the Inquisition.
The Spanish were extremists who killed anyone not Catholic.
The Spanish did Atlantic Slave Trade.
The "black legend" is simply true. Its only legendary because you can't face the past. Blood, terrorism, genocide, lies and religious fanaticism led to modern Spain. Not to mention horrific civil wars, worst being the 1936-39 because you have no freedom politically (and you think the Armenian Genocide was "one of the worst". Your civil war is equal to it 🤭)
The Battle for Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0753821656/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_fabc_XHV7R023CF8TP9HDN5Y6
I got more (stole it from Arab Responses to Fascism and Nazim: Attraction and Repulsion. Its expensive but worth the price.)
You havent but you willingly continue to dwell in ignorance or you're genuinely afraid to be labelled an anti semite by bunch of non semites lol
Your choice. Safety first I guess.
>culturally and ethnically
RIP to all the Hofjuden who viewed themselves as Germanic Jews whilst they saw the Eastern European Jews counterpart as savages & barbarians because of their Eastern European (and Russian) heritage... They even viewed Mizrahi Jews as "Arabs", morally inferior, and deserved to be ostracized. There's a reason why Kalman Katznelson, an Ashkenazi Jew and author of the 1964 Ashkenazi Revolution, was considered as the "Jewish Nazi".
Highly recommend this if you can challenge your preconceived Zionist-washed history:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0802715729/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_SW71J0APZSZ8N5BCDXAF
Ok, peace out!
>I said Palestinians are mixed descendants of Philistines and other native groups who were Arabized and intermarried with Arabs.
Finally... You agree with me! Seems like the heavy weight of references and archeology was too much for you lol.
First you said Philistines are not Palestinians. Now you correctly said Palestinians are Philistines (their descendants) but they mixed with others (Arabs mainly). Therefore Palestinians are the oldest and only indigenous population
Hence why I'm an Arab Palestinian 🙋♂️ and the heritage continues for 4000 years...
Now be a good researcher and buy this book! Stop relying on hasbara propaganda. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1786998696/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_HMAT0MMN460MQS3JD1BW
It has all the information you need :D
>CITATION NEEDED
I already cited Simon Sebag Montefiore with the page numbers. Did you read my message properly?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1474614396/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_T7C7DPNR6EP8QV9C33JT
>I already answered the question you asked yourself, that being Palestinians are a mix of Arabs and the occupants of Palestine (Caananites, Greeks, Jews and Philistines)
Desperate to lie, fail to answer how Philistines were successively mentioned across the centuries and then boom, Palestinians are foreigners from Arabia.
Funny guy you are. You sure do love following archeology when it suits you only 🤣
>And Palestinians are descendants of Arabs who came during the 7th century but I'm not saying they aren't natives.
Your first point is wrong. Palestinians are descendants of Palestinians since 14/13BC. They mixed with Arabs later on. For example Herodotus mentions Arabs in Palestinian land in 5th century BC. Tacitus mention Arabs in Roman army heading to the province of Judaea etc. Muslim sources mention Arabs in Lebanon in the 6th century. The 7th century was simply a catalyst of what already existed.
Perhaps you'll enjoy this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1786998696/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_RYTH9MQMFQT3Z5VMKD3F
>Besides, the migrations Tacitus is describing occured hundreds of years befors he was writing.
He described a massacre not migration.
Here is his quote: "they [Jews] drove out the natives, took over their lands and there consecrated their city and temple." (page 246)
I know he is describing years later. But it matters because it shows that Jews then didn't see themselves as natives. In fact Tacitus mentions 4 theories regarding Jewish origins, none of the locations is Palestine. So even the people in the Roman era didn't view Jews as natives, nor does he mention Jews saying they are natives (nor can they because they came as colonizers themselves! You cant say Romans are bad yet Jews are good. They did the same thing lol)
>My point is you can't deport or force Jews to leave a place they grew up in and have known as their home their entire lives
If they (Zionist supporters) can leave Eastern Europe, then surely they can leave Palestine 🙃
Then you agree with me, being against homosexuality (by merely saying its crimes agaisnt God) can land you into serious problems: losing job, losing your money, end up on the streets, shamed for the rest of your life.
Same thing with leaving Islam, if you innocently leave Islam, some will judge it negatively (personally I dont care so long as you're sincere and not planning to attack Muslims).
This book is nice: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FJ09OYI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_69ZB5EQKDBMVT70TPAVK
>respect these laws.
There is limit to such a statement. If you speak justice, its just. Irrespective what the law says.
Just to add some note: the massacre Muslims faced at the hands of Russians and Armenians in 1870's and the subsequent forced migration of them is known the Human Disaster.
This book is specifically about this topic: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1607817047/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_N8PBDVVY2FJY814AA3NB
Whilst this book is more about Ottoman history but has good info regarding the Russo-Turkish War of 1870's and the implications: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0582256550/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_CKPS28VN153ERSR6EZSJ
Usually the Muslim side is totally ignored in favour of the 'innocent' Armenia. But this presupposes innocence before looking at the facts/context!
>ok friend so you are saying the sunni hate towards shia is not real
I did not say that. I know Sunnis who hate Shias etc. I was talking, for the third time, about normal Sunnis doing critical historical work. That is all. Like Ali Muhammad as Sallabi.
I'm a Sunni and I'm listening to this Shi'i about the topic of Uqlami's treachery https://youtu.be/hsMDCu37DJQ
>Some other sunnis consider shia kuffar and i'am not exaggeratin
Well... Some Shia consider other factions within Shia as kuffar. Its not just Sunnis pointing at Shias; Shias pointing at Shias too. The current jurisprudence in Iran is Ja'fariyya fiqh model. Not all Shia agree with it. A famous Ja'fariyya promoter would be Ali A. Allawi. Top historian. Usually Shia view Faisal ibn Ali (son of Sharif Hussein ibn Ali) as evil. Yet this Shi'i author paints a radically different, and interesting picture of Faisal. In fact it was this Shi'i author that got me into Arab history. His book is amazing.
This is his book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0300127324/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_1Z1B03NRMH17XHRHWWPP
I never heard of that quote by Enver. In which official telegram did you find this?
The story of deliberate starvation began with Antonius (this guy https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1931541248/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_N72MG8QQKDNQ2D6QDAFF). He never quoted Enver.
Also the quote sounds so fake because the Ottomans helped the Lebanese, they opened orphanages, schools and charities. Did the Ottomans deliberately starve people to death only to help them?
Do you really believe the Ottomans entered WW1 only to kill their own work force which may lead to rebellion? Think straight. It makes no sense.
Plus the ruler of Lebanon was Jamal Pasha. Jamal never received any instructions from Enver. Plus Enver was War Minister. It was Talaat who was the Interior Minister. So if there was any instructions it must come from Talaat since he, and Jamal, are responsible for the problems in Shaam.
Based on that, the quote sounds so fake. Even the part about killing Armenians is fake. Jamal, Talaat and others all agreed the Armenian massacres were wrong.
Anyway share a link to the original and official telegram from Ottoman archives.
As for usurping the power in 1517, well yeah... the Mamluks sided with the Safavids against Ottomans and the Ottomans were stronger and the Ummah as a majority agreed the Ottomans are the rightful rulers.
Better for a strong Muslim entity to be Caliph than a weak Mamluk-Abbasid government.
> Pan-Islamism works if people ignore race or ethnicity and focus on what matters
Women right issues, LGBTQ rights issues, atheism or non-religion issues, concept of haram, entirety of cyber crimes, proxy wars (using Islamic terrorism against Islamic countries specifically).
Islam has no answers to none of these because all of them are problems of 21t centaury.
> *answer Also, no most Muslims aren't Twelvers they represent barely 9% of the Muslim population they were more before yet caliphates were made surely now they can't come in our way
Iran has a population of 81 million, discriminating them because of the way they live Islam still proves my point and admitting waging war against them is not a valid point.
> Islam has still been preserved my dude even if a minority of ignorant mixed its culture with it
Thaht claim is false. If you have time and resources read The eye of the heart: An introduction to Sufism and the major tariqats of Anatolia and the Balkans
Written by Yashar Nuri Ozturk a Turkish Islam theology professor. As you can understand from the name it dives in to Islam in Anatolia and Balkans. As you said you are Berber you can clearly see the similarities and differences between your way of Islam.
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