Everyone has different proportions, but even 26" seems high at 5'5". Most calculators would recommend 1-2" lower than that, and personally I tend to go even lower than they recommend for my height.
You could always go with something like this, but it probably costs as much as a desk.
If your new chair is more adjustable, you could raise it and go with a higher foot rest than the one you've been using. If not, your best bet is probably going be to get a keyboard tray and move your display a bit closer.
You might also consider a trackball like the Elecom Deft Pro instead of a trackpad as it will allow you to rest your entire hand while trackpads force you to constantly hold the fingers that don't contact the surface up and away.
Generally solutions are to raise the floor to be under your feet or lower the keyboard/chair so you can rest with your feet on the floor.
The target posture you're going for should have your hips slightly above your knees with the keyboard just under your elbow height.
A height adjustable footrest can raise the floor up to the right height (here's an arbitrary amazon one: https://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Commercial-4653-Adjusting-Footrest/dp/B00006IAHM) However, that will mean you can only put your feet on the footrest or the base of the chair... you don't have a lot of room to "fidget." More ideally, you'd be able to lower the desk or add a keyboard tray so that you can have your feet on the ground AND the keyboard at the right height.
Sounds like tennis elbow.
It's been a while, but I think I remember some of that. I added some "stretching lifts" to the routine. Choose LIGHT weight... repeated for emphasis... LIGHT WEIGHT... and find one of the curl stations. Act like you are going to do curls, but let the bar hang down. You should feel stretching in the biceps and forearms.
Do a rep, let the bar down slowly, hang and stretch for a few seconds. Repeat.
Be careful and use light weight. You can probably injure yourself very easily doing this.
If you're looking for a good footrest, I'd recommend checking out https://www.amazon.com/underdeskfootrest/dp/B01G4VHSRG?ref=myi_title_dp
It might be a good fit for you since it has 4 adjustable heights and won't raise your legs too high so it won't get in the way of the keyboard tray.
Imagine laying on your back face-up, arms laying flat by your sides typing on a Kinesis Freestyle 2 with 20" separation and a trackball of your choice on whichever side you prefer.
I don't have this problem, but you could always get a desk foot hammock. They attach to your desk and is elevated, so it'll be out of the way of your wheels.
Hm, looks like this type gives 26" by having a 13" pole along with 13" of lift from the pneumatic arm:
This might work, but curious to see if others have suggestions.
I was in a similar situation but gave this a shot and have been happy so far:
32" Portable Curved Shape Light Wood Lap Desk by Trademark Innovations https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019J91KIS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_i_N86JC663BGZ49FKAFXT2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
It's not perfect and you'll still need to take breaks and stretch but it's been significantly better then any desk & armrest combo.
I tried a motorized adjustable desk that didn't go low enough and found that sub 30" desks are hard to come by. I found some adjustable school desks meant to be adjusted for different grades that I thought would work great. But even setting it at like 24" was no good.
To add on about the keyboard and mouse: you have to reach over your entire notebook to type/scroll currently.
It appears that desk has a keyboard tray, maybe store the (potentially wireless) mouse/keyboard there and only pull it out when you arent writing.
Raising the screen a few inches helps, they sell little shelves for this that you could scoot your notebook or other items under when not in use so you can bring it closer, such as this
Note that if you raise the laptop up, you will almost certainly want an external keyboard.
Honestly I think a larger (24-27in) monitor will help a lot since it means you can see from further away without leaning in. Id check Goodwill/thrift store for something larger and get an adapter (usbc to hdmi for example) the goes between your laptop and the screen. I wouldnt pick anything too big or it wont fit, and don't get anything too expensive since it could take a few bumps or spills in that sort of placement.
If you're open to other options you could try this:
32" Portable Curved Shape Light Wood Lap Desk by Trademark Innovations https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019J91KIS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_i_MZCC31P8R53X5X8CZ6QT?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
You can either rest it on your lap or on your armrests. The main downside is how cumbersome it can be to get up/sit down each time but the trade off has been worth it for me.
Keyboard trays are becoming very rare, I have no idea why. They are ergonomic and use desk space much better. I never found a desk that comes with one, I just bought one and added to my desk. I bought one like this
It was pretty cheap, I already had a wooden board in my house to use as the tray, so I just cut it to size, installed the rail track and installed it in my desk. It even has a height adjustment.
Here are a couple that seem to come up a lot in my searches. There are more expensive ones, but that's where if I'm going to spend a few hundred dollars, I'd rather just buy a whole desk!
I have a desk that I could install one of these long tracks on, but there are clip-on options for desks with crossbars or that otherwise couldn't take an installation
It is a very good purchase, the one in your photos :
GoldTray TLMP Adjustable Height Keyboard Tray with Negative Tilt and Mouse Platform https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MGCGY8Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_PREG4DMYQBAMCGCAPYX7
You may benefit from a high end articulating keyboard tray with negative tilt:
GoldTray TLMP Adjustable Height Keyboard Tray with Negative Tilt and Mouse Platform https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MGCGY8Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_3YXAJWZ67EA6TGYNGN5T
In addition to everything else about monitor height, etc, you'd be better off replacing the books with an actual footrest of some kind that can be adjusted to angle toward you. Something like this or a half-cylinder bolster.
Not that one, I ended up returning that and buying a 3 monitor set, but only putting 2 monitors on it
I had similar issues, that started also around 25, that I ignored for years. I used to work on a MacBook with no peripherals, and used the trackpad with all the gesture short cuts for everything. I also played a lot with a ps4 controller. Started in my index finger and spread from there, at some point my whole arm was numb and tingling. At that point (I was around 27) I had to stop working for about 2 weeks, no laptop, no phone, no ps4, it all felt horrible.
After that I bought a stand for my laptop, a separate keyboard, and went to a huge scala of peripherals to replace my trackpad. I ended up using the Logitech MX Vertical and MX Ergo the most, both are vertical mouses that help reduce the strain in wrist and hand. I also use a pentablet display (Huion Camvas Pro 16) quite often. I found switching between different input methods to work the best for pain relief and prevention.
Looking at the mouse that you are using you might have similar situation that can course pain. Because its size and shape, I can imagine you using it with a curled index finger. I can highly recommend trying the MX Vertical for a couple of weeks.
An other thing you can work on depending on the tasks you are doing is using your keyboard. Try using shortcuts more often. If your tasks features a lot of writing and editing text or code, take a look at https://neovim.io. It has a pretty steep learning curve, but once you get used to it, you will be faster than ever, and your hands never have to leave the touch typing position.
I'm giving this a shot: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKL66GY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_YTPQ62H0M26CQJBMSWG9
Mousing with the keyboard tray seems to be my issue. I tried this for about 6 hrs today: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075CKYVDW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_V2BT50THPWMF8204XCND?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 and it was surprisingly pretty good and easy to use. I actually used it on my clothes and it worked great. A little akward but not as much as you'd think. My neck, chest, and arm is a little tight right now so I'll have to report back, not sure if it's from today.
The info you've gathered from YouTube is exactly the same page I'm on too. I think using the computer really is such an individualized experience it's a lot harder to get right than people think lol 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Floating hands while typing sounds like an easy learning curve but to palm the mouse differently sounds like it will take me longer.
I've recently ordered a mousetrapper too, should receive it Friday: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BK63MDW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_N49WBDM401SBR7ZK7V8M
My goal would be to use the keyboard tray either flat or negatively tilted with the Mousetrapper. I always felt akward using the keyboard and mouse separate.
I'll experiment with more floating hands, thanks.
I have a herman miller aeron. Would it be possible to put it on the bottom of this other stool so I can get more height?
Sounds like an affordable keyboard tray is the way to go. Most don't fit on sit-stand desks due to the cross-bar, but a clamp-on like the Kensington SmartFit Clamp-on Keyboard Drawer should. It goes 3-6" below desk height, which should be plenty along with your footrest.
Unfortunately the trackpad was a poor choice for wrist/hand health. Hopefully you can return it and exchange for a trackball like the Slimblade + Ergosoft Wrist Rest. I use that with my left hand as well as a vertical mouse with my right.
The classic options are
In both cases, you'll want to have your knees just slightly below your hips (almost same height), keyboard right about elbow height and top of the monitor at eye height. You know, the standard ergo recommendations.
I bought it last year, so it must be the updated version.
I currently alternate between an Apple Magic Trackpad 2 (it works in Windows with this driver) and an Elecom Deft Pro. I like the gestures on the trackpad but the trackball is probably more comfortable because it allows you to rest your whole hand rather than having to strain it by hovering constantly.
I think $100 is too low for getting a good chair. I'd increase the budget and get something like this: Executive high-back chair
I'm not sure how low you need it, but this desk goes down to 25.5 inches:
I bought it and love it, it's great quality and very stable. A lot of the cheaper desks I looked at seem like they wouldn't last very long.
IMO a keyboard isn't really ergonomic without some split, which really limits what you can put on top of your laptop. I do know that the NuPhy F1 is a low profile mechanical and wireless keyboard that has shaped feet that fit in the groove of the macbook keyboard (maybe only some models? you should confirm it works for yours before buying).
I just came and found this subreddit looking for similar info. I'm just shy of 6'3" with a disc herniation (repaired years ago but still gives me trouble) in lower back. Looking to upgrade as my current chair was never great always good enough, but starting to wear out now a few years in. Current chair. Considering our needs are similar, I'll send anything interesting i come across this way.. please update this if you find anything good too.
the SKymat one has 17,000 reviews.... also just found this!... looks weird and kind of not-soft but maybe its good. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8YE3VI?pf_rd_r=XDVPET0AXZDDCH3QZC48&pf_rd_p=5ae2c7f8-e0c6-4f35-9071-dc3240e894a8 looks funny
I dont need it today I can wait I want to find a good one but not ridiculously expensive. I saw one today for $130 with gel in it at bed bath and beyond.
but then there's this Mat from Varidesk company that is $50.. looks similar to the 30 and 40$ ones but from a good brand..
maybe something like this would keep his head from having to be forward, I don't know if they are any good to watch movies through though
I've had really bad neck shoulder and back pain for six years now, I'm 28 Yr old, I feel the pain, I hope your dad feels better and gets pain free 👍
I have the wireless version of this: https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-920-002478-K120-USB-Keyboard/dp/B003ELVLKU
I've had it for years. It's actually been really good, especially factoring in the price. The keyboard has feet that you can collapse. If you collapse the feet, which I do, it has no tilt. It's entirely flat.
I agree with what you noted about most wireless keyboards come with a tilt that you can't remove. Tbh, I want to upgrade to MX Keys or a mechanical keyboard, but I haven't for this reason. I want a keyboard that has no tilt.
I highly recommend the standing desk because it's far more useful than I expected! My work requires a long time sitting and I usually sit at least eight hours a day. After the long hrs sitting, I felt my neck and back pain and I think it can be caused by two main reasons. First, the height of my laptop is too low to look at even though I have lowered the height of my chair, so I put a holder under my laptop to increase the height to solve the problem and relieve my neck pain. Second, I developed the bad habit of sedentary, it's not because I like sitting but I always forget to stand.
I just bought a standing desk from "Hoo" due to I'm working from home during the COVID-19 and I really want to improve my home office environment. Here are the characteristics that I loved with:
-Stability & Strong Weight Capacity
-Height Memory Preset
It definitely worth finding a good standing desk as you are a programmer to benefit your productivity and long-term wellness.
This arrived today, and I'm writing this comment LYING DOWN and my upper back is finally feeling waves of relief. I'm using a wireless kbd and trackpad so I can keep my arms outstretched, which is supposed to be better for posture. Some of the reviews said it was flimsy so I'm just being real careful with it (I set it up for the first time less than an hour ago), but it feels PROMISING!
Excuse the caps but that's how good it feels.
The lower part of the laptop is almost vertical over my abdomen, so the screen is in front of me rather than directly overhead... Might experiment with positions later.
I'm of average adult build and it fits around me just fine, but I'm not sure people with a larger figure would find it as comfortable. Just take notes of the measurements in the product pics.
I have no financial incentive to post a review, I just found this to be a weirdly difficult thing to shop for and wanna offer another opinion for the next people.
Best of luck!
I recommend both.
Nice looking gaming chairs like this one derive their price from their attractive design rather than their ergonomics.
Truly ergonomic chairs should have:
- High quality cushioning that distributes your weight over your entire butt.
- Lower back support.
- Head support.
Expensive, high quality chairs like this one might not look fancy, but check all the boxes listed above. Your neck, back, and butt will thank you.
As for a sit/stand adjustable desk, make sure you try before you buy. In particular, try an adjustable desk for a few hours of real work, since you might notice that it's more tiring and harder to concentrate when you are standing. As a programmer myself, I prefer to sit when I'm doing complex coding or debugging.
Regarding the cost, consider that a $1000 dollar chair can be viewed as a $1/day investment that pays for itself in ~3 years. If you are a career programmer, it makes sense to consider your physical health an asset worth more than $1/day. If you have any doubts, ask some 10 or 20 year programmer veterans if they would've invested a grand in better back support in their 20s or 30s ;)
You can get something like the thing at the link below if you have a tablet or an ultralight laptop and use a wireless keyboard. You'd have to do a bit of wrangling but nothing too crazy. I have the one pictured but they have some with just one laptop arm. There are others that support less weight but are more easily adjusted, but I'd suggest finding something that supports double the weight of your computer or it will be less than ideal. Oh you could get a separate monitor too and just mount that.
Alternate idea: get a vr headset -- I have a Quest 2 and you can remote into your windows computer at least.
Yea, neck stretches and just taking rests help a lot. Also, since you're considering a drawing board, you might wanna look at book holders such as this one.. I got it for when I'm reading my textbook. I just tested using it for writing, I'm sure it's not the most ergonomic, but it's not bad. In comparison to a drawing board, this one you can place on your desks and use your desk sort of a support to your arm and you can keep your elbow at about a 90 degree angle. Without that kind of support, I imagine you'd be leaning forward too much or experience tiredness on your writing arm quick. Just something to consider. I think size wise this is just right, but if you need something bigger, yea there are drawing boards of the same design that are bigger
Late but I have a similar issue. I even made a post about it here. There's a couple of solutions I've tried:
Lean stool: I specifically tried this. Probably the second best option I came across. The issue is it's honestly not very comfortable for extended periods. Also while you can use them for normal height desks, most are really meant for higher desks. There are far more expensive stools that are presumably more comfortable and adjustable but I haven't tried them.
Kneeling chairs: Seem like a decent option but I haven't come across any that provide decent lumbar support. I'm not sure what the ergonomic requirements are for lumbar support when kneeling for long periods but might be worth considering.
Custom split "keyboard tray" setup: As far as I've found there's no commercially available solution to this. Basically the idea is to have a split keyboard with two keyboard trays on either side of your thighs. The issue I envision with this is that you don't want your arms too far apart and the closer they are the less room your thighs will have to stretch side to side without hitting the trays.
Standing Desk: Honestly this is probably the best option. After a little adjustment period I found I can easily stand for a few hours without pain and with a sit/stand desk you can easily bring it back down when you just want to chill and watch a video or something. And the market is big enough that you have a pretty wide price range for what's available. I also use my leaning stool with the standing desk a lot.
This is probably what you are looking for.
Both are bad! I bought this cheap and light wireless keyboard that I carry with me everywhere. It certainly worth the extra weight!
So, it's either this used aeron (which I'll add a headrest to shortly after I buy it) or this chair.
I'm struggling with some nasty shoulder RSI currently. I really need the headrest for relaxing in my chair and it's the only reason I'm considering the new chair from amazon. I spend 50 hours a week at work using civil3d and I need to be as comfortable as possible. Which would you choose and why?
Have you tried a mouse that simulates holding a pen? I use one from Swiftpoint that is on Amazon. This is the link I found - https://www.amazon.com/Ergonomic-Swiftpoint-Compatible-Bluetooth-Rechargeable/dp/B08C7HKK67/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=swiftpoint+mouse&qid=1603312162&sr=8-7
If you can afford the Leap, get the Leap. I've had mine for 8 years, and despite heavy use, it looks/functions like new - it's even gone through two cross-country moves.
I have a connective tissue disorder and fibromyalgia (making me a bit of a delicate flower), so I eventually supplemented mine with office chair arm pads from a third party (they are heaven), and a 3" natural latex seat cushion. You probably won't need the latter, but if you plan to use the chair arms while working, the linked pads (1) will fit your Leap's arms, and (2) made a huge difference for me in terms of comfort.
I see. I was imagining the kind that screw onto the bottom of the seat only, so you could replace it with something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Boss-Office-Products-B909JARM-Adjustable/dp/B000H1KT3U/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=office+chair+arm+replacement&qid=1602262016&sr=8-6
The armrests on my chair are removable, but where would I get a different pair? They just screw onto my chair with two 3-4 inch screws each.
This is what I have currently:
After hours of Googling for something just like this - I found your post. A couple of questions, if you don't mind.
Overall - this is amazing. I had previously thought about trying to do something like this, but backwards and on my desk chair, if that makes sense. Would probably be cheaper, but would look it.
Have you checked the catalogue of the manufacturer of your chair?
If they don’t sell one, you can find generic footrings: e.g. 20" Chrome Foot Rest Ring for Drafting Stool or Office Chair - S4165-3 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CEJR3IC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_SPtyFb01FWNYH
I have this one (for the intended chair, but depending on the measurements of your chair’s lift, you may be able to find a better one than the screw in kind I linked above that fits): https://www.fully.com/hag-stepup-footring.html
Would something like this work? Or will this just make my wrist bend upwards more? Thanks.
Had this same problem. I now have a stable full of different tenkeyless keyboards:
A split goldtouch kb (office issued) is good bc you can make it practically normal shaped and adjust as needed.
Several 65%% and 80% mechanical keyboards. My petite mom uses this as well https://www.amazon.com/Qisan-Mechanical-Keyboard-GATERON-Magicforce/dp/B01E57PXKA/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=magicforce+keyboard&qid=1581401557&sr=8-6
Microsoft sculpt kb (ten keys numpad is a separate thing)
I currently use a Kinesis freestyle edge rgb with mx Browns. I love it. Lots of features and it had a reasonable price(last December). I can't say much about reducing pain associated to CTS since I bought it after my CTS surgery.
I also used the Microsoft sculpt wireless (the one with the num pad separated) and it's a very good ergonomic keyboard for the price. It is my recommendation for anyone who wants to improve ergonomics.
I 've also came across Perixx ergonomic combo at very interesting price. However, I can't tell if it works with Linux.
I'm short. I like these types of products:https://www.amazon.com/Packs-Rotating-Extension-Elbow-Armrest/dp/B00QMMMFU8/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=ergo+arm+rest&qid=1594896777&sr=8-2
They look stupid, but they have done the best for my shoulder and arm problems. Arms on chairs never worked for me because I am so small framed that chair arms have never sat at the right place. Chair arms are always both too high AND too far out from my body. I wish I could have these floating arms on my chair instead of attached to my desk, but seriously they are very comfortable.
Basically I am short, 5'2, but I am also all leg and no torso. So my "correct" ergo placement is basically my keyboard in my lap (my legs touch the bottom of my desk). I've been to physical therapy and had ergo consultants.
I also use a DXracer "gaming" chair. It's the only chair I've found that goes low enough for my height. My desk is 21 inches off the ground. I hate footrests, they never helped me. I recently took my keyboard tray off my desk because ~asthetics~ but I'm slowly discovering that I might need to be a keyboard tray user. I just attach my silly robot arm rests to the keyboard tray.
What about wearing a cervical collar (neck brace) as a training device? You can buy one cheap from Amazon.
I use stacked 34" ultrawide monitors, have a portrait 24" to the right, and a landscape 27" to the left. I sit semi-reclined with my feet up, and try to remember to use my headrest (at least sometimes), which helps relax my neck. It also helps to mitigate how much I need to look up, in order to view the upper monitor/top of the portrait monitor. I also sit about 2.5 feet back from the center monitor, so I don't have to pan as much. Finally, I take a ton of breaks.
If you want to be able to slide your keyboard/mouse into position, and without a lot of finicky adjustments, pick up a flat lap board of some kind, to rest the keyboard/mouse on. Then, you can slide the board to move everything in one piece.
Also, are you sure you have a 38" and not a 34" ultrawide? The photo shows an Alienware, and that doesn't come in 38".
A good ergonomic chair I can recommend is the Sihoo ergonomic chair sold on Amazon, recently bought one to replace a similar chair and wish I had done so sooner.
Pretty much, you don't. It's one of my major complaints with Aeron. They come in S, M, L sizes. You can tell the size by counting the number of bumps (1,2,3) on the inside of the ridge at the top of the backrest. You can put a cushion or something similar like an Obusforme (https://www.amazon.com/Ergonomic-Backrest-Wheelchair-Cushion-Comfortable/dp/B01720GFAE) to effectively push the backrest forward.
I use this one for my three monitors: https://www.amazon.com/Planar-Monitor-Stand-Black-997-5253-00/dp/B003LD8XMA?th=1
It's worked great for me and it's quite stable.
But there's a way around this right? Let's say I don't have access to another type of chair. I can just buy a back support like this https://www.amazon.com/Easy-Posture-Lumbar-Support-Black/dp/B00LGCWXCO and attach it to the chair's backrest.
I actually used that one for a while and had to stop using it because it was putting a lot of stress on my thumb and causing me new pain. I like ones like the Kensignton Expert but it does take some time to get used to. It did take a while to heal up with that through. And although I can't speak to your particular case of RSI my biggest helpers in relieving my pain was through chiropractic care and trigger-point massage.
If you really want to get inclined, with the least possible stress on your body, you can build or search for this kind of seating.
But you shouldn't forget a head rest for your head rest.
That is one solution, the second would be to have an inclined board on which you draw which straightens your back and neck. The best is being a straight head and seeing your drawings.
this is so the story of my life, the classical 90deg setup doesn't work because the torso is too short and the arms too long, it gives me such bad issues, I'm trying what I can please let me know if you find a solution. What I've tried so far:
still looking for the perfect solution. I think what is really killing me is the mouse since I tend to just cramp my hand around it for no reason. I tried all sorts of different "ergonomic" ones, I found the ergonomic ones horrible tracking wise and making my condition worse, right now using Logitec Performance MX. Trying to do as much mit keyboard shortcuts and as little with the mouse as possible (check out vimium plugin for chrome / firefox for mouse free browsing)
Hoping for more tips and experiences from other folks with long arms ..
That's the pits. Best of luck to you. I really, really like this monitor arm
It's got enough range and maneuverability that hopefully it could bridge that distance between your eyeball height and your hand height.
Also, sounds like if you straighten out your arms, you'll probably have to bend at the wrist to type and use your mouse. My personal experience says that typing with a bend in your wrist will eventually hurt. Do what you gotta do I suppose, but watch out for contorting too much around the elbow injury.