Thanks! It’s been an experience. I actually shifted my career a bit from a more physically demanding position to a less active one due to ic. (Not a mover, but an archivist and I was moving a lot of boxes, items, collections, etc.) Diet does help-at least at first-you may be able to cheat more as you recover. This is just a stupidly frustrating road block before you get better. It does get better. I just got a new bike after being unable to really ride for years!
It’s very easy to feel hopeless and down on yourself, but try to remember that just because your life has changed doesn’t mean it’s over. Ic has made me more empathetic, helped me help others, and given me new perspectives on life and my own strengths.
Meal prepping and finding a protein shake you can tolerate might help since eating on the road is tough. I still have fast food, but might have a plain burger, plain fries, and a water or a plain grilled chicken sandwich.
I do outdoorsy stuff on weekends, but I definitely have to time it out and give myself downtime. I’m also on medication that helps and do bladder installations at home. Find a urologist who specializes in IC.
Meditation and managing emotions can also help, though that’s easier said than done, as I am learning.
I did PT for a year twice a week. It was a slow process, but it’s an effective one. It helped to start with a consistent practice and learn what I could do at home, which is what I do now. There’s a book called Heal Pelvic Pain that gives exercises you can try at home.
https://www.amazon.com/Heal-Pelvic-Pain-Strengthening-Incontinence/dp/0071546561/ref=nodl_
It’s not quite as effective as a specialist I imagine, but it’s something you could try to become comfortable with the process.
I've had some luck with random apple juices, but really you're going to be looking at an organic store. Whole Foods, Trader Joe's....
Amazon sales Whole Foods' brand which is called 365.
https://www.amazon.com/365-Everyday-Value-Organic-Apple/dp/B074VG4CMW
The reaction they mentioned is likely serotonin syndrome. Medications that increase serotonin, which include SSRIs and Uribel, can cause serotonin syndrome when used concurrently. However, the reaction will depend on the individual, the specific drug(s) being taken, and the dosages of those drugs.
If your doctor and pharmacist say not to worry, then I would not worry. Unless you’re also taking medication they’re not aware of? I use drugs.com to keep a list of all medications I take and their potential interactions. It’s important to be honest with the medical professionals treating you.
Other medications that can increase serotonin include triptan migraine medications and the drug Tramadol.
I got mild serotonin syndrome from a combination of three medications when I broke my elbow and the doctor didn’t look carefully enough at my chart. I was prescribed Tramadol for pain when I already took two medications that increased serotonin. I was nauseous and dizzy, but once I discontinued the Tramadol, I was fine.
You can read more about serotonin syndrome on the internet. The Mayo Clinic has a good article: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/serotonin-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20354758
Absolutely!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HHCEXLA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_7RTKA1NRZ96J0SK6ZBM7
These are a bit pricier than the thicker ones I use for my actual period, but they work great for daily small accidents.
Nature's Way Kidney Bladder, 930 mg per Serving, Traditional Herbs Supplement, 100 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00014EEQG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_FZVGAQZ5SC1MXY7S8PEJ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I have had zero symptoms since I’ve started taking this
I consistently wear dresses (because they don't put pressure on my abdomen to stay up) and I get the opposite remarks. What are you all dressed up for? Well, I literally pulled a single piece of comfortable clothing over my head to ensure bodily coverage, if that's what you mean by dressed up? I wear skirts too, especially now that it's "in-style" for them to sit at your natural waist.
I buy a lot of my clothes at overstock type stores (Marshalls, TJ Maxx, etc,) Old Navy, Amazon, and ThredUp.
I recently got this super cute dress: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FLR5MH3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I also really love the brand Snag for tights. They ship out of the UK, sit way up on my ribcage, and neither fall down nor squeeze me too hard trying to stay up. I basically order all my clothes from FB ads these days, but they're targeting me within my area of interest so I don't mind.
Yes! A hot bath is my go too when I flare! It helps sooo much with the pain/urgency and it's relaxing. Play some Animal Crossing or read a good book. Text your friends and just chat about something (don't focus on your illness). Draw or color, watch a funny show, cozy up with a blanket in a comfy chair (close to the bathroom haha). I also weirdly find relief when I'm in a rocking chair. You'd think the swaying would swish my bladder around and be uncomfortable but it actually really helps.
I use this water bottle --> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BNQ965B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It's cute and has time markers so I can keep track of my water intake.
I'm sorry you're having a bad flare OP, my first one lasted nearly two months. BUT! I've been feeling really really good for about 8 weeks now. I just had to give my bladder time to heal.
By cure they mean remission. It can always come back, so you are never permanently cured. Remission means you can do what you please and nothing bad happens. Many random things can trigger remission, and many random things can trigger the IC to come back. I went into remission for a year, ate all the pizza and orange juice I wanted, until I got a bladder infection and the IC exited remission. Likewise C-Sections, catheters, and other things can also lead to IC returning.
I entered remission the first time around through diet alone. Good herbs that may help is glucosamine with MSM, it's believe to act like elmiron and it can be found in any major retail or drug store. Likewise you can get quercetin from a body building shop which is the exact same thing as that expensive "Bladder Q" stuff you see being advertised for IC.
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11245398 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin
Hope this helps! I feel that the above herbs helped me reach remission in my first fight, but this time around it was way too severe to just stick with herbs.. but given the choice I would.
I take Now Brand buffered c-500 with no issue!! NOW Supplements, Vitamin C-500 Calcium Ascorbate, Antioxidant Protection*, 100 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MGR15E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_CTRPGQ1CH41P4Z3HAQNA
I got these from the hospital after I had my endometriosis surgery. they’re ugly, but so comfortable! now I wear them when I have an IC flare because they don’t dig into my bladder and they’re breathable.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XX363JB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_EQKEC92ZZM74HXMWJWFV
Regular Vitamin C is extremely flaring to most with IC, and taking high levels can even trigger first IC onset. It’s an important supplement for healing, though—I’ve had great luck with “buffered” C, which is non acidic:
NOW Supplements, Vitamin C-500 Calcium Ascorbate, Antioxidant Protection*, 250 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VRXD1K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_H8DK4EFMN7RK001C0XPZ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I’m so sorry you’re going through this!! Since you are already prone to UTIs, I do think you should go get a culture done ASAP if you’re able, especially since you can’t pinpoint why you’d be having a bad flare right now. (Although sometimes I flare out of nowhere.) If you’ve had sex recently then I really especially think you should get a urine culture done! I’m going to copy and paste what I wrote to another ICer asking about telling the difference between flare and UTI with test strips:
I know people say that ICers will always have leukocytes in their urine, so my experience successfully using test strips may not be yours—but the Urinox strips have never once signaled for leukocytes during a flare, and have accurately shown every single actual UTI without a single false positive. They really help me stay sane during a flare, and help me get to the doctor ASAP for a urine culture the minute they turn even a little purple. Good luck!
Multi-Parameter Urine Test Strip for Urinary Tract Infection UTI | Individually Packed, Clinically Tested with Mobile App | Medical Grade Urinalysis at Home | 20 Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0893M6R97/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_T5J54N1DJB9WCZX7MJPY
Swanson Alkaline Booster ph Protector Drops 1.25 fl Ounce (37.5 ml) Liquid https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07C59LM6S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_kCVcGb5W12GS3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Another user recommended these and now I put them in my tea every morning. It’s hard to tell if they are helping more or differently than Prelief, but I am currently counting how many doses are in a bottle as I use it up to see which would be cheaper.
Hskyhan Alkaline Water Filter Pitcher - 3.5 Liters Improve PH, 2 Filters Included, BPA Free, 7 Stage Filteration System to Purify, Blue https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QH96W3C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_i_J3L8FbW45ECDR?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I bought this one and love it!
Late to this post but I have had great luck with these -- https://www.amazon.com/Urinox10-Infection-Individually-Accurate-Urinalysis/dp/B085P32ZWS
They have accurately told me about two UTIs (confirmed by my doctor) and stayed a neutral color during bad flares that then went away after a few days and were clearly not UTIs. I really trust them!
Moveable Working Gauge Smokey Bear Sign! Fire Danger! 8"x12" All Weather Metal Log Cabin Decor Rustic Distressed Lodge U.S. Forest Service National Park Decor https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1Y9VX6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_d5gUFb5ZP7166?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 this is the item. Maybe ‘fire danger sign’?
You can get tons of testing strips for cheap on amazon, for next time. https://www.amazon.com/Packs-Paper-Litmus-Strips-Tester/dp/B008IBOG7G
I can't really say how much baking soda to add, but there's always milk....
The ph of tap water depends on where you live.. but I know my whole state more or less has safe water in the taps. You can a get pack of like 100 test strips from amazon for like $5. Just make sure the PH is 7 or above.
Um, most brands, as far as my experience has been.
This is what I take for vitamin D: Amazon Brand - Solimo Vitamin D3 50 mcg (2000 IU), 365 Softgels, Value Size - One Year Supply https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079C83Z3L/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_evh2Cb25147Z8
Natures Bounty Vitamin B-12 1000 Mcg Tablets, Value Size - 200 Ea https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DYSUQR2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0wh2CbSESDK0B
Can you order thru amazon or eBay and get like 20 boxes and pay shipping only once ? AZO Max Blistered Tablets, 12 Tab https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B003OL4EIQ/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_i_WrNSDbW0TB8NG. Edit: dang 12 tabs for 11 bucks. Ugh.
I feel your pain. I didn't find out I had IC until recently. For two years I kept getting what I thought were UTIs, so I would go to the urgent care and get antibiotics every time. I even ended up with a kidney infection once. I've also dealt with the kidney pain, some doctors told me it was kidney stones, and some said it was just weak back muscles. Either way, ask to have that checked out too! Come to find out once I actually made an appointment with a Urologist that all those times I had gotten treated for a UTI, they were actually just flare ups. She went through my entire medical history with me and showed me that only a handful out of the dozens I got treated for were actually positive on the culture. So bottom line, definitely don't wait to see a specialist. I'm so mad at all of the times i've taken antibiotics for absolutely no reason. It definitely eased my mind once I got a diagnosis and found out I wasn't crazy!
A few tips from my experience with IC:
sex and your period are big triggers
stay stocked up on Azo, it helps soooo much with the pain. However, be aware that it is rough on your kidneys, so try not to take it often, especially since you mentioned kidney pain.
Buy medical grade UTI test strips. These are very useful bc you'll be able to tell at home if it's an actual infection or a flare up. I use these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PW9VCCD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Definitely get rid of that doctor!
I was having the same issue and no infection, terrible bladder pain and urgency. For me, I had scar tissue on my bladder (outside not inside so not seen on a cystoscopy but found during another surgery). My doctor recommends this book to lots of patients:
Heal Pelvic Pain: The Proven Stretching, Strengthening, and Nutrition Program for Relieving Pain, Incontinence,& I.B.S, and Other Symptoms Without Surgery https://www.amazon.com/dp/0071546561/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_A7RtFb3RX3ZAD
Amazon has it or the direct site
Urinary Tract SupporTea by Nuna Med - Herbal Tea Solution For Urinary Tract Health (UT Support) - Kidney and Bladder Tea made with Uva Ursi (Bearberry) & Marshmallow Root (24 Count Pouch) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WFS4W7D/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Hl0iEbG3NJPJ5
Also these are the men's undies I wear-- I'm 5'6 130-something pounds and I wear a Medium. Hard to wear them with any sort of tight pants but those flare me anyway! So I wear these and track pants or scrubs. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JCJP1DK/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1
Yes sorry I meant to in my comment! This is the brand; I have the set of 3 but I really only use the small one. https://www.amazon.com/Elitehood-Reusable-Refillable-Injuries-Headaches-Hot/dp/B0863JRK85
Hey Reign, just a friendly update (if you still do home instills) to let you know you may be able to do catheter-free instillations with a new device on Amazon called the UroDapter. I'm locked out of instillations because I can't use catheters, but I just bought this and I'm fixing to test it out when I get the instill medicine prescribed!
https://www.amazon.com/pcs-UroDapter-Urological-Catheter-Free-Instillation/dp/B094JYBRYV
Apparently you just pop this on a syringe and then inject it into the urethra and it will treat both urethra and bladder. Posting this for OP, too!
Please also get an evaluation by a talented PT, as the symptoms you're describing are very pelvic floor dysfunction-ish...my pain (caused by PFD) is burning after peeing, because the muscles in my urethra are pinching and causing phantom UTI pain. Hope you feel better soon and try some gentle heat--this is the kind of hot water bag that really helps me when I'm experiencing the burning pain: https://www.amazon.com/Elitehood-Reusable-Refillable-Injuries-Headaches-Hot/dp/B0863JRK85
you just described my symptoms exactly! back to back UTIs that cultured positive, then after finishing antibiotics and receiving negative cultures I still have very UTI-like pain--severe pain when peeing, especially when dehydrated, urethral burning, exactly like you said. Also unable to wear tight pants/undies without triggering the pain, and continued pain with sex.) Anyway I spent so long on this sub spiraling about an embedded infection or IC (it was right in. the beginning of lockdown so I couldn't see a urologist) and enough people on this sub suggested I get myself into pelvic floor physical therapy, and that was absolutely a godsend. We have muscles in our urethras, which I never knew, along with the other muscles in the pelvic floor that can be triggered by UTIs and then not calm down after our cultures are coming back negative. I really recommend you going on Yelp or Google to see if you can find a talented pelvic PT within driving distance, even if you have to drive a little bit, because a PT evaluation early on in your symptoms could really save you a lot of time and worry and grief that I went through by delaying! hope you feel better soon--stay hydrated and try some gentle heat: https://www.amazon.com/Elitehood-Reusable-Refillable-Injuries-Headaches-Hot/dp/B0863JRK85
Same! I would be totally lost without my hot water! I eventually switched from the traditional shaped rubber water bottle to a soft cloth bag--pasting the link below to show the kind I mean. It's soft and small so I find it's easier to nestle into my crotch than the flat rubber one, which I still use when I have period cramps. So glad you've found something that works for your pain too!!
https://www.amazon.com/Elitehood-Reusable-Refillable-Injuries-Headaches-Hot/dp/B0863JRK85
If you ask and she refuses, have her note it in your chart. The fact that you are wanting something as needed should be even less of a “burden” to them. Hydroxyzine can make you a bit sleepy. If your pain has to do with any sort of histamine reaction it will help. If they refuse you could also try Zyrtec, Benadryl, or Claritin over the counter. I think those are better taken daily but might work as needed. I’ve heard good things about Uribel too, but since it isn’t FDA approved some insurances won’t cover it. Azo is my go to in desperate times.
Other than meds- have you ever tried a TENS unit on your pelvis? Amazon has a great one that I use for around $35: tens unit
My recurrent UTI triggered pretty severe pelvic floor dysfunction, where the muscles in my urethra were distressed and caused phantom UTI pain but negative cultures. An evaluation from a talented pelvic PT would be a great next step for you! I used Google and Yelp to find mine a had to drive a ways to go to the “right” one.
I also wanna say it took a few months after one particularly bad UTI for me to feel like my bladder lining slowly repaired itself, and during that time I did follow the so-called IC diet and take the recommended bladder coating supplements like Desert Harvest aloe. And then after I was no longer sensitive to acidic foods and I still had the phantom UTI pain, the pelvic PT was the proper way to address the remaining pain.
In the mean time some gentle heat https://www.amazon.com/Elitehood-Reusable-Refillable-Injuries-Headaches-Hot/dp/B0863JRK85
And a really great pelvic yoga video for you to try! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phKI8Qnekaw
I don’t personally have experience with having WBC and blood in my urine without infection (I’ve seen others on this sub who do though), but that feel worth exploring more with your doctor in the coming months, instead of just the clinic each time. Good that the clinics have been culturing them, though! If you think there’s even a small chance that it could be a real UTI, getting that culture dropped off today would mean you’d know the result much sooner.
For the future, gentle heat helps me sooo much when I’m having an active flare. This is the brand of soft heat/ice bag I use!
https://www.amazon.com/Elitehood-Reusable-Refillable-Injuries-Headaches-Hot/dp/B0863JRK85
Hope you feel better soon ❤️
This is happening for me currently as well. Your body is inflamed from the infection of the cold, and your immune system is stressed and unable to modulate the inflammation in the bladder like it usually does.
This happened to me really badly last time I had covid. This product helped alot. https://www.amazon.ca/AOR-Pain-Relief-120-Capsules/dp/B08B5NPHDW
I have the exact same symptoms. Its likely pudendal nerve entrapment/ irritation, and possibly hypogastric nerve as well.
Gabapentin made me dizzy and stupid, and amitriptalyne and other tricyclics made me suicidal. They also don't actually treat the issue and only cover up the symptoms.
I internal trigger point release and chiropractic using the cox technique specifically are the only actual treatments I've found.
Look into 'PPOD syndrome' and check out this book: https://www.amazon.com/Pelvic-Pain-Organic-Dysfunction-Disturbances/dp/143271810X
I found these vaginal suppositories very soothing: https://www.amazon.com/Biom-Vaginal-Probiotic-Suppository-Fragrance-Free/dp/B0823DSBYR
Nature's Way Cayenne Pepper... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00014G25W?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
This is the one I ordered. I read about cayenne pepper capsules on an IC forum and I had never heard of it before, but it's really helping! I hope it helps you!
I have an electric heating pad, it’s my best friend. They shut off automatically, so I go to sleep with it and everything and have never had a problem for years.
Amazon. I take it before I have anything with tomato, alcohol or anything else acidic. A total game changer.
I am so sorry you have chronic pain! I can so relate to every single thing you said! I have had IC for a very long time. Lately I have had repeated, real UTIs as well. I can barely tell the difference between an IC flare and a bonafide UTI.
I have tried lots and lots of remedies, everything known to try it seems. I cry a lot and often can’t sleep as well.
I know antibiotics will not be the solution (they seem to increase the probability of getting another UTI, and they destroy the gut flora). I have recently started exploring the world of herbs (because many organisms causing UTIs are resistant to antibiotics…this is a concerning crisis). I just got off a round of cipro. I’m so scared to take antibiotics from the fluoroquinolone family…but my strains as of late have been klebsiella pneumoniae and enterobacter cloacae complex.
I am reading this book (link below) and using herbs suggested in it. I eliminated two UTIs using herbs as described in the book. But I could not get rid of the next UTI with herbs and had to go on a round of abx (cipro). I will say I am making some headway with herbs compared to other things I’ve tried. I am determined to figure it out…but I’m not there yet. I hope you find the book interesting. It’s interesting even if you don’t want to go down the herb path. Warm wishes and best of luck to you.
This is really sweet of you to post! My IC doesn’t appear to be as severe as others on this thread. I still drink cold brew coffee and wine. I’m a 27F and nurse happy to answer any other questions or concerns you may have!!!
If I travel these are things I have on hand at all times: -High PH water I sip on through the day -I literally carry around a heat/ ice pack everywhere I go (also immediately after sex I go get an ice pack) -I always take pyridium (AZO OTC) with me -coffee tamer I put this in coffee, salsa, etc. - wine tamer
No idea, the bottle says it's derived from wild yams. My husband ordered it for me from Amazon because he thought it may be helpful to my I/C symptoms. I use 1/2 to 1 full pump a couple of hours before I go to bet. You can apply it any time. My symptoms seem to be worse at night so I apply it at night so that I can get good sleep.
NOW Solutions, Natural Progesterone, Balancing Skin Cream with Lavender, 20 mg of Natural Progesterone Per Pump, 3-Ounce
This is the bladder builder that I bought. It was recommended to me by my urogynecologst - said many of her I/C patients swear by it. It's been good for me so far!
Yes, I'm in the US and have bought from them many times.
They have a store on amazon that sells out frequently but it looks like they have some in stock right now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z6PVK2B/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_i_XJ89KAA0J4VWY73HJRSW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I have also bought from their website: https://carobou.com/products/organic-aussie-premium-carob-chips-10oz
One awesome thing about this brand is that you can melt their carob like you would normal chocolate and use it to cook with. I really hope you like it if you give it a try, I've experimented with a lot of brands and most just taste like chocolate flavored wax lol. This stuff is honestly the best.
Good luck with the referral.
That is really expensive. Try it on Amazon - you can get 24 pills for a little over $7.67.
AZO Urinary Pain Relief Maximum Strength here.
Not UK, just trying to think outside the box a bit.
This is at least twice the price of what I pay in the US (like $15-17 per bottle, each bottle of "120 servings" lasts me 6-8 weeks), but maybe you could go the additive drops route at a better price than Amazon if you can't find a brand of water you like
I’ve never had a uti but I take it. My sister used to have utis and swears by this. She hasn’t gotten one in like a year since taking this consistently and stopped now BulkSupplements D-Mannose Powder... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P1SOMUU?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
No problem! For the loose tea I use this FYI
Frontier Co-op Organic Cut & Sifted Marshmallow Root 3.81oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T4FQ5CG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_N9JZV4FWGCXYW31ZEFVG?psc=1
For the capsules I use these — Nature's Way Premium Herbal Marshmallow Root, 960 mg per serving, 100 Capsules (Packaging May Vary) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000302280/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_KMEAFES9M7SV7FK4XV11?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
It’s this exact one:
Nature Made Calcium, Magnesium Oxide, Zinc with Vitamin D3 helps support Bone Strength, Tablets, 300 Count https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OD1F7U/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3VAP78P1X490F55BKPGJ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
For inflammation the supplement that helps me the most is Quercetin with Bromelain. (It’s a natural substance found in plants / fruits / veggies that is anti inflammatory). I’ll link the exact one that I use below from Amazon. I’ve also had good results taking Curcumin supplements for inflammation, but if I had to suggest one, I’d go with the Quercetin - if I’m having inflammation i feel better within an hour of taking a Quercetin pill.
As for burning, marshmallow root supplements help me a lot. Again, within an hour of taking it my burning subsides. I’ll link that below as well
Immune Support Quercetin with Bromelain Supplement - Quercetin 500mg & Bromelain 100mg Antioxidant Supplement for Joint Support Lung Health and Immunity - Advanced Quercetin Bromelain Supplement 90ct https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BSL23K3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_NFQ5PGC652PCYTVD9493
Nature's Way Premium Herbal Marshmallow Root, 960 mg per serving, 100 Capsules (Packaging May Vary) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000302280/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Q1T4KXBZXTY7T6MMD9SQ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Oh my gosh it’s so good you went to the ER then! Wow!! I doubt urgent care could’ve figured this out so well. So sorry that is going on but it’s great you found out now. Bactrim gave me horrible headaches if I didn’t push water like a crazy person, but I’m so glad they’re giving you something stronger. (People do have sulfa allergies so keep your eye out for anything serious like anaphylaxis, rare I’m sure.) I would add a women’s probiotic to repopulate your urinary and vaginal health—take two hours after the antibiotic. This one’s great! Hope you feel so much better tomorrow ❤️
Jarrow Formulas Jarro-Dophilus Women - 5 Billion Viable Organisms Per Serving - 30 Enteric Coated Veggie Caps - Women’s Probiotic - Urinary Tract Health - Up to 30 Servings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GSQR76M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_10JFNFTTDRQR3MS9NRSP?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I usually sit up on one hip, or with one foot underneath me, because pressure on my urethra is painful. When I have to sit upright, I use this cushion: Sojoy iGelComfort 3 in 1 Foldable Gel Seat Cushion Featured with Memory Foam (A Must-Have Travel Cushion! Smart, Easy Travel Cushion) (Size: 18.5“ x 15" x 2") https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EM8P456/
I found mine PT on Yelp/Google reviews and am driving over an hour to go to the person I picked…but it feels worth it! You shouldn’t continue to get worse as you go though, so do listen to your body and talk to your therapist about the renewed pain. It could help them solve the puzzle of your specific situation! There’s a great book by the most renowned pelvic PT, the doctor who pioneered the technique people use, and it could help you know what to look for or what the right questions to be asking your PT. Here’s the link—hope you find relief soon!!❤️
The Interstitial Cystitis Solution: A Holistic Plan for Healing Painful Symptoms, Resolving Bladder and Pelvic Floor Dysfunction, and Taking Back Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/1592337376/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_K29TTCCJ46XRBAF2RWZJ
Sorry that happened! The dehydration could have contributed as well, as you probably weren’t peeing as much. Consider getting a women’s probiotic to take two hours after your antibiotic so you can help repopulate your good bacteria!! It’s a lot easier to get another UTI after you’ve had one so be vigilant w water even after your infection clears. I swear by fresh garlic (chopped) to prevent UTIs…I chop a garlic clove and let it sit for 10 minutes (it “activates” the allicin) and then I swallow with a spoonful of hummus—don’t chew it or it’s way too intense, just swallow it. Sounds old wives tale but it really is helpful. Here’s the probiotic info too—hope you feel better soon!
https://www.byrdie.com/probiotic-for-uti-5113287
Jarrow Formulas Jarro-Dophilus Women - 5 Billion Viable Organisms Per Serving - 30 Enteric Coated Veggie Caps - Women’s Probiotic - Urinary Tract Health - Up to 30 Servings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GSQR76M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_7Y6N3BR0DW8PY9RB6K6D?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I don’t have a solution for at work but I bought these for at home and was very helpful Disposable Measuring Cups for Resin – Pack of 20 16oz Clear Plastic Graduated Epoxy Mixing Cup for Paint, Resin, Stain – 1/2 Pint Reusable Plastic Measuring Cup for Cooking & Baking https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0815YQLFD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_HFVV1P9PA6YWZXJQ2BE1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Pardon my french but this shit SLAPS. I've seen it recommended a few times here. The chocolate version is also delicious and has never given me any issues.
I have not yet, I've seen it mentioned a bit. Would something like this be ideal, or is there another form that is superior?
I take this, almost same ingredients but half the price. It’s not for IC, but very similar pill. Glucosamine with Chondroitin Turmeric MSM Boswellia. Supports Occasional Joint Discomfort Relief. Helps Inflammatory Response, Antioxidant Properties. Supplement for Back, Knees, Hands. 90 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GVJK3XW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_BBRH1MXNMQYJSX00J6S9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I swear by corn silk for my inflammation. Rarely hear much about it but it helps my frequency when I am flaring. It’s intended for urinary purposes but not common in this sub.
I also started taking this recently and think it’s contributing to my current minimal pain. Read the back, it’s got more than they mention on the front, so it might be the low doses of other things helping me but I’ve felt good while taking this. Glucosamine with Chondroitin... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GVJK3XW?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Trader Joe's Organic Coconut Aminos Seasoning Sauce is one of my all time favorites. I would not be able to tell the difference between soy sauce and this it is that spot on. Just yesterday I threw some chicken in to marinate for around 4 hours and had my version of stir-fried rice. Mmm! You can get it at Trader Joe’s of course or Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Trader-Joes-Organic-Coconut-Seasoning/dp/B07CG57LNM/
Hi there! I’m 21 and was diagnosed at 16!!
This website is awesome and has tons of information https://www.ichelp.org (this has the IC diet on it, changing your diet is the first step!!)
Here is what I take on a daily basis!
l-arginine (amazon)
amitriptyline (prescription)
hydroxyzine (prescription)
Uribel (prescription)
what I do for a flare!
ICE and HEAT. I alternate between a heating pad and an ice pack (they have ice packs on amazon made for your perineal area https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081TTKHWX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_C7zSFbGZV5BNF)
BATH. I will sit in a hot bath for hours and hours if I am flaring. Kind of gross, but i will just pee in there if i need to. it helps with burning and urgency.
RESCUE MEDS. I take Benadryl like candy when I am flaring. avoid Ibuprofen as that can irritate the kidneys. Zofran is for sure necessary if you get nauseous during flare. don’t be afraid to ask your doctor for prescriptions.
-FLUIDS. drink crazy amounts of water. I live off of Throat Coat herbal tea and gatorade when I am flaring. Avoid cranberry juice and other acidic fluids.
I’ve gone to PT once a week for a month and now at week 5 I’m finally finding relief. I know it’s expensive but in the long run I really think it’s worth it. I had sex for the FIRST TIME IN A YEAR last night and today I feel actually NORMAL! Since you already have gone to a PT and know what it’s like, you could totally get a pelvic wand and mimick the thing your PT did that helped you—the brand they sell at my clinic is called Intimate Rose and they ship from their website and maybe on Amazon too. There’s also a great book by the most renowned pelvic PT that has stretches you could pair with the wand. I was so skeptical for two years of everyone saying to go to therapy but after a continuous month I am such a believer!
The Interstitial Cystitis Solution: A Holistic Plan for Healing Painful Symptoms, Resolving Bladder and Pelvic Floor Dysfunction, and Taking Back Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/1592337376/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_PSHR5838T88ADH35QXTB
I take 500-1000 mg a day depending on symptoms. I take a pill but you can also take a tincture. This is what I use and it’s been my favorite so far
Organic Stinging Nettle. Vegan Capsules Made with Organic Stinging Nettle Leaf Powder for Prostate, Hair Growth, Allergy. Better Than Root Extract. Plant Based Herb Supplement Pills, Tablets https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B095JBS4P4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_ZXETHGP6DDG90HXFKP6M?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Many drug stores in the US (and Amazon) also sell a generic version that is cheaper. Just look for the same main ingredient as the Azo package.
Here’s an example:
Welmate Urinary Pain Relief | Urinary Tract Infection Treatment | Phenazopyridine Hydrochloride 99.5 mg | 72 Count Tablets https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08LDX5VGT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_VN69YAJY2QZ89XCN1PKP?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Unfortunately I think it’s way too much sodium to put it in your water every day. But you can definitely ask you doctor what could help. I did hear about these concentrated drops for sale that raise the pH of your water, and that might be something to ask about too!
Swanson Alkaline Booster - pH Protector Drops with 12.25 pH Rating - Make Your Own Alkaline Water - Add to Distilled Water to Help Maintain pH Balance (1.25 Fl Oz) https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07C59LM6S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_DXNMQG788M2ZRNY7GPKJ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
That’s a relief to know you’ve ruled out bacteria as the cause of your issues! I’m glad you were able to keep the pain mostly at bay for your trip and hopefully have a nice time too.
If you’re going to be taking an antibiotic everyday please add a probiotic to the mix! I really recommend Jarrow brand FemDophilus. Make sure you wait two hours after your antibiotic to take the probiotic. Hope you keep feeling better & better!!
Jarrow Formulas Fem-Dophilus - 1 Billion Organisms Per Serving - 60 Veggie Capsules - Women’s Probiotic - Urinary Tract Health - Up to 60 Servings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NXQ31HW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_QEPKRB7SJJK1RTA1GWCD
That’s a relief to know you’ve ruled out bacteria as the cause of your issues! I’m glad you were able to keep the pain mostly at bay for your trip and hopefully have a nice time too.
If you’re going to be taking an antibiotic everyday please add a probiotic to the mix! I really recommend Jarrow brand FemDophilus. Make sure you wait two hours after your antibiotic to take the probiotic. Hope you keep feeling better & better!!
Jarrow Formulas Fem-Dophilus - 1 Billion Organisms Per Serving - 60 Veggie Capsules - Women’s Probiotic - Urinary Tract Health - Up to 60 Servings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NXQ31HW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_QEPKRB7SJJK1RTA1GWCD
I work at home too and am sure that my sitting has really exacerbated my IC. I’ve started seeing a Pelvic Floor physical therapist and it’s been helping a lot! I recommend googling or going on Yelp to see if there’s someone with good reviews who’s within driving distance. In the mean time there are great stretches in this book I would incorporate into your day:
The Interstitial Cystitis Solution: A Holistic Plan for Healing Painful Symptoms, Resolving Bladder and Pelvic Floor Dysfunction, and Taking Back Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/1592337376/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_TFTZDFEA4HGGGG8BMTK5
I use the maximum strength urinary pain relief tablets! My good friend also has IC and uses these which I’m going to try once I go through my current AZO stock pile:
The 'red purses' is from the dye used in the AZO Urinary Pain Relief Maximum Strength which contains Phenazopyridine Hydrochloride which is the AZO most people are talking about when they say AZO (the one that helps to numb the bladder) not from cranberry. It's the one that turns your urine bright orange/red.
Yup! I don’t have any bowel issues myself but that is one of the things that made me say so. The pain w sex and the pain w pressure are symptoms of mine that are being helped a lot by PT. The physical therapist who really pioneered the pelvic technique they use all over the world for pelvic floor clinics has a great book you could check out!
The Interstitial Cystitis Solution: A Holistic Plan for Healing Painful Symptoms, Resolving Bladder and Pelvic Floor Dysfunction, and Taking Back Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/1592337376/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_2KRQVEPVAWJ43MTK2R12
Sounds like potential pelvic floor dysfunction — I recommend this book written by the most renowned practitioner of pelvic floor physical therapy. Please look into pelvic floor physical therapists in your area and be evaluated! It really should be the first line of treatment before any invasive urology procedures.
The Interstitial Cystitis Solution: A Holistic Plan for Healing Painful Symptoms, Resolving Bladder and Pelvic Floor Dysfunction, and Taking Back Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/1592337376/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_21WZ7J3VYP4TNTW5FHCE
I lived with IC pain undiagnosed for so long that I STILL just know I’m in pain from shaky knees or pain induced nausea.
As for proving it- forget the cytoscope. A simple instillation test will do.
An instillation test is when your doctor uses a catheter to put a “tester” solution into your bladder that WON’T hurt if you have a healthy bladder lining, but burns if you have ICT.
Make sure to ask your doc to have the soothing solution ready, so if/when the tester solution starts hurting, she can put in the soothing solution to ease your pain asap.
Make up a query email, saying that you think you have ict, but want to find a doctor that will diagnose w/ an instillation test, and asking if the practice offers that option AND takes your insurance. Then just copy/paste to send it to every Urologist in your area. Hopefully you will get a positive answer w/in a week or so. :-)
In the meantime- look up the ICT diet, and stick to it best you can. Take a Zyrtec and a Benedryl every night, and I like this stuff bc it has all the good supplements in one bottle:
Vitanica Bladder Ease, Bladder Support, Vegan, 180 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004W6RU6K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_57EQ424YBYJ3N0YVVB68?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079KB1VQY?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details. This is the link for “ pajama jeans” and they come in black. Super comfy, soft, and stretchy. They run large . I am 5’9” tall and the tall were way too long. Good luck!
These have accurately predicted when mine was an actual UTI, although others on this sub have leukocytes present even without bacteria. For me, though, any time it’s turned purple I did end up testing positive at the doctor
Multi-Parameter Urine Test Strip for Urinary Tract Infection UTI | Individually Packed, Clinically Tested with Mobile App | Medical Grade Urinalysis at Home | 20 Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0893M6R97/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_SFSPYDCZHQFZ3RS42DQP
I take cysto renew and the azo probiotic
AZO Complete Feminine Balance Daily Probiotics for Women, Clinically Proven to Help Protect Vaginal Health, Helps balance pH and yeast, 60 Count https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RC8CXC1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_7CXVYHS95DS9SZF7XTR0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Douglas Laboratories Cysto Renew | Supplement to Support a Calm and Healthy Functioning Bladder* | 120 Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EPQN5TS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_NMWXP8J4RHWS2XPAB1ZG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I ended up buying this tank just to try it out and have definitely been less symptomatic lately. I also changed a few small other things around the same time so I'm not sure it's completely attributable to the filter, but I do believe it's helped.
LifeStraw Home – Water Filter... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093LPT5M1?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I love my hot water bottle so much. This is the one I use
HomeTop Premium Classic Rubber Hot Water Bottle, Great for Pain Relief, Hot and Cold Therapy (2 Liters, Gray) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NQN1GGR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_JK9N9Z21K9MMP0C80EAE?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
my god! that is expensive! I am using one from a brand called NOW its on amazon, i will link it: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00772AQD0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
they are only like 10 dollars here which is vastly cheaper!
Oh dang, I’m sorry. I keep my meds in one of these, since it’s indestructible and leakproof. I got it at REI in the US but I have also seen them for sale on Amazon. Nalgene Polypropylene Jar
Not placebo effect. Our bodies really need those vitamins, and vitamin deficiencies are one of the primary silent things that can really mess up your life if you don't stay on top of it. I take 5000IU of D3 a day (D2 is garbage) and GENTLE B12 vitamins once in a while to keep bladder happy, like these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078V2VLCT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Keep in mind there are two kinds of B12 and one (the cheaper kind) is much harsher on bladders than the other.
Also low vitamin D levels are associated with worse health outcomes for literally just about everything. Seriously, your body needs it. Sitting in the sun doesn't generate enough and there's no point in giving yourself skin cancer trying.
I wear these to work and love them!
I find that the slight compression helps my pain, especially because I move around a lot at work
Oh my gosh I have been dying to make this recommendation for ages!
Get yourself some Thai fisherman pants. I absolutely swear by mine for bloaty pain flare days - you tie them closed, and can have them as loose as you want. I got mine working at festivals years ago and fell in love - you can get them in any colour on the usual sites (ebay/amazon etc) -here's a great example
Haha, little victories against the American Standard :P
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/rectocele/symptoms-causes/syc-20353414
I wouldn't see a gyno, but a colorectal surgeon about ruling out this kind of stuff though. They have a border wall, but the gynos are on the wrong side...
All in all, if adding fibre doesn't work (as well as the OTC stuff everyone gets recommended), it's a good idea to try one of those drugs first and see how you go. Personally I can't speak for Linaclotide, but Prucalopride has been great to me for the last few years.
Man, props to you though. Dealing with those specific issues is a lot of work (and personality altering experiences haha) but doing so during transitioning is a whole new layer of complexity and you sound like you have it together very well at this point. Dealing with some doctors when cis is hard enough, but when they start blaming an easy target in your context, eg their area of inexperience such as hormones, it can get particularly demoralizing.
I got these at the recommendation of someone else in this sub:
Multi-Parameter Urine Test Strips for Urinary Tract Infection (UTI) | Individually Packed, Clinically Tested with Mobile App | 30 Pack https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0891Q7TF9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_TMHF8AKTXF403HFMM8M1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
50 cents each isn’t too bad I guess! Love to see what others recommend now that you’ve asked again :)
I got these at the recommendation of someone else in this sub:
Multi-Parameter Urine Test Strips for Urinary Tract Infection (UTI) | Individually Packed, Clinically Tested with Mobile App | 30 Pack https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0891Q7TF9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_TMHF8AKTXF403HFMM8M1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
50 cents each isn’t too bad I guess! Love to see what others recommend now that you’ve asked again :)
Orthopedic Bed Wedge Pillow Set –... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097S7GVVB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
When the set arrive, I was a little upset at first because two of the memory form wedges seems to be air-pressed too much and couldn't get back to their original shape. I put them aside for a couple days and they grow back up.
This set does not have any review when I order it. It is just a bit cheaper and has one extra wedge.There are some other options more popular you might check out.
No problem! If you need relief faster to make your days more manageable you can also apply lidocaine over the clitoral area or MONISTAT Care Maximum Strength... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076SJCTV8?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share worked well for me too. Some burning does occur when you first apply either of them but it goes away after a few seconds.
Minimal Side Effects? Have you researched that stuff?
http://www.bad-drug.net/bad-drug/amitriptyline
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/amitriptyline-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20072061
No thank you....
Like she said, AZO makes a bunch of different medications. AZO is a brand name, not a medication name. The AZO product you want is the one that contains Phenazopyridine.
This is what you're looking for; it's the bladder analgesic that turns your urine orange/red:
Hey, I'm so sorry for all of this.
I'm looking into if I have an H. Pylori infection. Have you been checked for it? It's commonly overlooked.
I have something in mind I will add to my daily supplements if I do have this. I'll link it below if you are interested. The reviews of this product in general give me hope that this may be what's going on.
I have all the same symptoms as you describe. Our origins differ, but mine started 3 months after being with a new partner.
As well, how is your digestion? A big possibility is leaky gut. I've had awful digestion since mine started, and I'm low on magnesium.
The probiotic Jarrow Femdophilus helps me a lot.
Aloe pills have been a life saver for me for this reason. They aren’t perfect but I would say 90% of my day to day pain is gone.
The ones I buy: Herbal Hills Aloe Vera Capsules (Aloe barbadensis)- 500 mg,120 Capsules, Pure Aloe Freeze Dried Powder Supplement, high Concentration, Supports Overall Well-Being https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077B8FC86/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_HDREPHZ253JF43A6AQSP
I take two a day or more if I’m going to be drinking/eating a lot of sugar/having sex. Please do your own research on aloe capsules to see if they are right for you though!
One user on this subreddit recommended Cantharis. I tried it and found that it did help (I feel like it's worth mentioning that I don't have severe symptoms). This is what they recommended and what I tried as well.
Cantharis 1m by BOIRON https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E4QXV3O?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
You are so welcome! NAC is also an amazing supplement that’s great for IC, but the Jarrow NAG is what I was talking about.
When I was unable to eat 98% of foods I always looked forward to my dinner of basmati rice w chicken, red or Orange bell peppers, and tons of Coconut Secret brand coconut aminos..I learned about that product on this sub and it was a game changer for mealtime! They probably have it a little cheaper at your grocery store but here’s what the bottle looks like: Coconut Secret Coconut Aminos - 16.9 fl oz - Low Sodium Soy Sauce Alternative, Low-Glycemic - Organic, Vegan, Non-GMO, Gluten-Free, Kosher - Keto, Paleo - 101 Total Servings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LWQLCJ4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_482Y0P7FRDCS7P18HVFQ
Basmati rice w chicken, red or Orange bell peppers, and tons of Coconut Secret brand coconut aminos. It’s sooooooo good, when my IC was at its worst I had it every night for dinner and it was so nice to have a thing I looked forward to eating that wouldn’t make my flare worse. They probably have it cheaper at your grocery store but here’s what the bottle looks like: Coconut Secret Coconut Aminos - 16.9 fl oz - Low Sodium Soy Sauce Alternative, Low-Glycemic - Organic, Vegan, Non-GMO, Gluten-Free, Kosher - Keto, Paleo - 101 Total Servings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LWQLCJ4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_482Y0P7FRDCS7P18HVFQ
I am sensitive to many supplements, but this one does not bother me:
I ordered this one. It seems to be the runner up to desert harvest.
This is the product I decided to buy off Amazon
Desert Harvest is 600mg per capsule based off of 1800mg per serving (3 capsules). 200:1 leaf and gel. 180 count. $68. $0.38 / count. Tapioca starch 0.5% silicon dioxide.
The Herbal Heals brand is 500mg per capsule. 200:1 leaf. 120 count. $13.45. $0.11 / count. Vegetable capsule, vegetable stearate.
Not sure of the importance of leaf vs gel.
I use a specific lube that improves vaginal health either before, during, or especially after sex, and it's really helped prevent UTIs for me. It's called 'good clean love restore moisturizing vaginal gel'. It's aloe vera based and helps w pH balance and lactic acid: https://www.amazon.com/Restore-Balancing-Moisturizing-Vaginal-4-Pack/dp/B08JWW76RG?pd_rd_w=UQebW&pf_rd_p=de28a4b0-e3d5-4d62-a7ec-045d2f5964b4&pf_rd_r=14DV5HJZP2F3CRTQ2GPM&pd_rd_r=27d67fed-e0b7-4328-bed3-7c52be62ee8c&pd_rd_wg=I9HZR&...
Limited-time deal: Best Naturals Peppermint Oil Bowel Soothing Dietary Supplement, 250 mg, 120 Count https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0067LAPCY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_dl_RPZVG7RRFY4JEMKB63ZG then i started using this a few days later too and i cant really tell if its helped even more but a study i read made it seem like it helps rebalance a menthol deficiency IC patients have in their urine so i figured it couldnt hurt to take this as well