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The most popular reviews in /r/JonBenetRamsey:
Mr. Wood, quoted in this article two years ago:
"I didn't fall off the truck yesterday. I've been around the block with some of the largest media companies in the country in significant libel cases. This one is, among those I've represented, the most egregious libel case I've ever seen. I can't imagine what a judge or a jury's reaction would be. I think I know. I think I got a taste of it in the earlier cases I filed on behalf of Burke. But those defendants had the good sense to promptly settle their cases with Burke and not repeat the foolishness, the unlawful accusations."
Today, for sale on Amazon:
The Case of JonBenet Ramsey.
https://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Of-JonBenet-Ramsey/dp/B01M1GGXUS
I agreed with Mr. Wood. Heck, I thought Dr. Spitz's remarks alone would get a big payout and public retraction. But no. Apparently "The Case of" made accusations that were not only lawful, they will be allowed to stand.
You can publish two-year-old threatening remarks from Mr. Wood every day, /u/searchingirl, and that will be a good reminder to check and see if the CBS special is still for sale.
One solid documentary that takes an even-handed -- yet realistic -- look at the spiraling Ramsey case saga appeared on Reelz network a few years ago. It's called, <em>Overkill: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenet</em>. The Executive Producer is Lawrence Schiller (Perfect Murder, Perfect Town).
The pilots wife Pamela archuletta wrote a book. It was her convertible she rode in at the parade. This book is a must read.
https://www.amazon.com/Patsy-Ramsey-What-Pilots-Wife-ebook/dp/B016LGBNTS
Oof, that is probably a bad copy/paste of the link.
Try this?
Chief Kolar, Foreign Faction.
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town by Lawrence Schiller is one of my favorite books on the case.
> I was interested on this only because I realized she didn't have the note in her hands in that moment. And she was certain in those statements about the note being on the floor in the hallway while John was reading it and she was on the phone. I also feel it's really, really weird that John at least didn't say "be careful, they say they will kill her", if not making the call himself.
In the history of kidnapping and ransom notes, all of the notes threaten, warn the families to NOT notify police or their loved one would end up dead. Rare it is their loved ones are recovered alive. Instinct may be to follow the rules laid out by the kidnappers, but logic tells you, the chances you will see them alive are slim. The first thing law enforcement tells the public, if a loved one or someone you know has or you suspect been kidnapped, call the police. https://www.wikihow.com/Report-a-Kidnapping
John is a logical man, he would approach it from "common sense".
At the time people believed "lawyering up" was a sign of their guilt. Cops hate that, and they, as in this case used it publicly to lay suspicion on the Ramsey's. Today, I think most of us would agree, even if innocent, especially if innocent, call a lawyer.
I think it could've been the Maglite, a golf club or a hammer. I didn't used to think a hammer or baseball bat were likely because the fractures typically look like round depressions, but after seeing [these pics](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Skull-wounds-linked-with-blunt-trauma-(hammer-A-of-Delannoy-Becart/2b995766c173d566c72579ebaa3e7cbcd2521314) of skull fractures caused by hammers I was convinced otherwise.
>Yet, their DNA is not on the body.
This is incorrect. Their DNA being on the body just doesn't add anything--why wouldn't it be?
There was no semen on her body: that type of DNA would be different.
> Plus I can’t see them really doing what was done to her in order to cover up.
When you accidentally kill someone, how do YOU handle it?
Oh wait! You've never accidentally killed someone while your twin engine King Air was waiting to take you to the SECOND of your three expensive homes before you went on a week long Disney cruise! (Note: please take it as a compliment that I think you've never killed anyone! And, these people were in a MUCH different position than the average poster here. Billion dollar corporation much there yourself?)
>Additionally, why would they leave the body in the basement, then call the police? Even though it didn’t happen, I’d assume if I made the call to police, the police would first search the house and find her earlier.
It could be they were expecting that, and things did not go to plan.
>If you were really trying to cover up, why even have the body there?
Bodies are VERY hard to move and dispose of. And look at the ransom note: "A proper burial" was very important to them.
> I’m sure they could have slipped out in the middle of the night to put the body somewhere else in order to make the kidnapping scenario more realistic.
Their neighbors noticed lights on in their house at night--they were not going to be able to drive away without it being noted.
>It’s just such a bizarre case and I’m totally immersed in looking at everything about it.
Recommend Chief Kolar's book:
https://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X
The intact spider web he has on the cover is a nice little clue for detectives at home.
I wanted to let you guys know a little bit about what's been done and what's kind of in the works over at the JBRCE. u/-searchinGirl has been doing some editing as well as what this post announces.
One thing that someone expressed was that citations in certain sections aren't well rounded enough and don't incorporate some of the newer books and materials. I feel the best way to do this quickly is to crowdsource the work.
We need to get citations and material from two of the newer books, specifically Kolar's and Woodward's. What I propose is that we do like a book club here and we can kill two birds with one stone.
We'll start with Kolar and as we read each week, we'll discuss the book as well as hopefully harvest citations for the JBRCE.
The previous mod wanted to do a book club and it went about 3 weeks and stopped. I'm not going to let that happen this time. We'll see this one through to the end.
If you don't own James Kolar's book and you want to be a part of this book club, go ahead and buy it now so you'll be ready. It appears his website is out of them right now, but Amazon has them in stock for around $14 and up.
We'll get together and devise a schedule and some other organization and we'll figure out how best to go about it.
After we do that one, we'll do Paula Woodward's book. I know that lots of people dislike Paula Woodward. I understand that. Still, it is a book that is about this case by a well known figure in the orbit of this case. It's noteworthy even if you disagree with Paula or her book.
I think this is a good opportunity for everyone to have a good discussion. It's one book from each 'side'. I would be interested in any ideas or suggestions anyone might have regarding this project.
You may want to explore an online college course. There are free courses cataloged by subject matter on sites like Open Culture and Coursera.
Recommend you read:
https://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X
>A former lead investigator in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case breaks six years of silence.
Kindle edition good so you can search it.
Calm, dispassionate and methodical evaluation of the evidence.
>In JonBenet, the most authoritative and comprehensive study of the Ramsey murder, a former lead Boulder Police detective, Steve Thomas, explores the case in vivid and fascinating detail - pointing the way toward an analysis of the evidence some deem too shocking to consider.
This book makes team IDI very angry. He is a smart good man who worked hard on this case.
I think starting with those two lays a good foundation.
Podcasts/shows etc: I personally do not think you get the information you need from them, at least to start.
Both parts are for sale on Amazon. I wrote a post about it, comparing the ongoing sale of the JBR show after a defamation lawsuit to another case where all copies of a published work were removed from sale.
Do you mean something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Lionel-Trains-Track-Oga-Curve/dp/B00IRDY24W
The one in the image is likely to break the surface of the skin of pressed firmly into the skin.
This is very interesting. Thanks. One thing I noticed is that Thomas has it listed that Pam removed "the desk Bible." Could that be why it wasn't there when Thomas sat down at the desk? I'd imagine these pics were taken pretty early on, probably throughout the morning of the 26th and in the next few days as well. (Edit: I wrote this as I was following along with your post, and before I saw that you mentioned this.)
About the bathroom photos, I noticed that in DOI, John describes Pam taking photographs from Patsy's bathroom. Do you think he was aware that people might have been talking about that, so he mentions that Patsy kept family photos in her bathroom as well?
That is fascinating that the Ramseys wanted to push the Psalm 118 theory to the public. I believe Thomas about Psalm 35/36 and I agree with straydog77. I don't believe that 118,000 is a coincidence at all. Not even if an intruder wrote it. Too specific.
So we have Linda Wilcox and LHP both describing Bibles on the third floor. Sometimes it gets confusing because I think the first floor room labeled as the study was called the den/tv room by the Ramseys. Definitely seems to be a coffee table there.
That looks like it could be a Bible on the desk to me. Here is a Bible that has indexed tabs. Does this look similar to anyone?
NIV, Thinline Bible, Large Print, Bonded Leather, Black, Red Letter, Thumb Indexed, Comfort Print https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310448336/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_TY9602BYNBVAT18YFPWA
I'm partial to believing Thomas about the dictionary. I don't know how anyone can rule it out without knowing the edition. What it means, no clue.
Looking at the links to other forums, it is so interesting to see all the people who have looked into this case over the years, down to details!
I think reading the Ramseys directly would be better than whatever is filtered through Woodward. Since we've already covered the main three (Schiller, Thomas, Kolar), I think Death of Innocence or The Other Side of Suffering would be good options. I'm also game for going with a lesser-known, more tangential book such as Patsy Ramsey: What the Pilot's Wife Knew by Pam Archuleta.
> So far as I’m aware - and I could be wrong - the autopsy suggestion that there was prior unrelated sexual abuse was based mostly on measurements of the vaginal opening being “too big” for someone her age.
The 1x1cm hymenal opening measurement was not one of the criteria that determined the evidence of prior sexual abuse in this case.
Copy-pasting this from my post (Setting the Record Straight on the Evidence of Prior Sexual Abuse - Part 2):
The evidence of prior sexual abuse is not based on criteria or findings that are not specific to sexual abuse, such as:
- chronic inflammation/vulvovaginitis/erythema
- UTIs/dysuria
- regressed toileting/bedwetting/soiling
- high number of pediatrician visits
- 1x1cm hymenal opening
The evidence of prior sexual abuse is based on:
the documented presence of a transection of the inferior hymenal rim (point 37 on the Adams classification guidelines), which, in absence of known accidental genital trauma, is a specific indicator of past sexual abuse
the interpretation of genital findings from JonBenet's autopsy by specialists trained in distinguishing signs of abuse from non-abuse, evaluated in the context of JonBenet's medical history and history.
Wait—in December, in Colorado, John Ramsey kept a window open to the outside?
There was some snow on the ground.
The temperature dropped as low as 10 degrees F, with a 10 mph wind that day:
https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/us/co/loveland/KFNL/date/1996-12-25
Sorry, but if you’re paying the heating bill, you don’t leave windows open in winter.
Also, with a window open like that, pipes can freeze. That sucks when that happens.
I don't think it was very well known until they caught him. Here is the episode of interviewing Paul Holes if you're interested. Skip to 20:20 for him speaking, it's fascinating.
https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Edward_Brongersma.html
You might be interested in this if you haven’t already seen it. Its about the guy Frank lived with as he lived out his days in the Netherlands. I don’t know why I read the whole thing; it was interesting but the guy is a pedophile that advocated for pedophilia and lowering the age of consent. He was only into boys, and from the outside doesn’t seem to be a murderer. Sound like Frank was a murderer?
Cord around the neck = band
paintbrush = rod
https://www.amazon.com/Historic-Print-Garotte-Bilibid-Philippines/dp/B003HX340K
The rod/paintbrush is twisted which tightens the band/cord.
Did John Ramsey ever refer to the paintbrush as a twister in one of his BPD interviews, yes or no?
> compiled videos
Need to read a book or two, it's big, too much to put in a video.
Steve Thomas
https://www.amazon.com/JonBenet-Inside-Ramsey-Murder-Investigation/dp/1250054796
Chief Kolar:
Recommend you start there.
https://www.amazon.com/Historic-Print-Garotte-Bilibid-Philippines/dp/B003HX340K
See that? That's a pic of a garrote being used in the Philippines. That's where John was stationed as a Civil Engineer Corps officer when he was in the Navy. Take a look at the rod. It's being twisted to tighten the band around the prisoner's neck/throat. A stick is being used as a twister. Did you know that Burke referred to the paintbrush as a twister in one of his interviews? I'll prove it to you.
0284
1 LOU SMIT: What's you --
2 JOHN RAMSEY: No, they look like they were
3 in the same position. Well I can't see them in
4 both pictures. They were taken at the same time?
5 LOU SMIT: That's 71 and 72 could have been.
6 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't see anything else.
7 LOU SMIT: Okay. I'm going to hit one more
8 area, and then Mike I wondered if you had some
9 areas that you wanted to get into?
10 MIKE KANE: Um hmm.
11 LOU SMIT: So just one more area. Everybody
12 has heard about -- I can't say that. What have you
13 heard about a paint tray?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Just what I read, or tried
15 not to read. But can't help but hear the media
16 that tell us a broken paintbrush that was used as
17 part of the -- you see, I found JonBenet. I never
18 saw a cord or that sort of thing. I thought I saw
19 a cord, but I didn't focus on it or realize there
20 was anything in the way of a twister, which
21 apparently it was.
22 It apparently was a paintbrush.
Oops! It wasn't Burke. It was John. (My bad.)
LMMFAO!
Or someone who was a Civil Engineer Corps officer in the Navy in the Philippines who called the paintbrush a twister in his June 1998 BPD interview.
https://www.amazon.com/Historic-Print-Garotte-Bilibid-Philippines/dp/B003HX340K
>A garrote is an assassins weapon; it's a piece of wire affixed to two wooden pins/dowels. It can be scrunched up and pocketed when not in use.
Oh, look. This photo proves otherwise.
https://www.amazon.com/Historic-Print-Garotte-Bilibid-Philippines/dp/B003HX340K
- The rod is twisted to tighten the band around the neck.
- John was stationed in the Philippines when he was a Civil Engineer Corps officer in the Navy.
- John referred to the paintbrush as a twister in his June 1998 BPD interview.
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Just what I read, or tried
15 not to read. But can't help but hear the media
16 that tell us a broken paintbrush that was used as
17 part of the -- you see, I found JonBenet. I never
18 saw a cord or that sort of thing. I thought I saw
19 a cord, but I didn't focus on it or realize there
20 was anything in the way of a twister, which
21 apparently it was.
22 It apparently was a paintbrush. And that's based
23 on what I heard in the media. That's my
24 impression. That's all I really heard.
25 LOU SMIT: Your impression then of that
0285
> Also, the broken window that had cobwebs in police photos or noted in initial report (not sure which). If anyone came through that narrow window, those would have been disturbed.
That's the cover of Chief Kolar's book:
https://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X
Intact spiderweb. Nice clue left there for the reader about what he thinks.
>Obviously there’s more to this case, could someone please refer to a podcast, YouTube video
This is a complicated case, and books are your best chance at understanding what is known.
This one is a good start:
https://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X
"Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? "
This is also a great book by someone who was there:
"JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation"
Those would be a good start.
>but since there is no other evidence to support this case
There is.
And you reached the same conclusion that at least two well qualified and experienced law enforcement officers did.
If you are interested further, recommend you read Chief Kolar's book.
Why the book is good. You wrote
>-when JonBenet was found in the basement the window was broken.
Supposedly Jonbenet's father broke that window months before, when he "forgot his keys". But some say "well the intruder MUST have come through that window!"
The problem is, there is an INTACT spiderweb on that window, which was small, and would have been a tight fit. Anyone coming through would have torn the spiderweb.
Well then the "intruder did it" team says "well the spider built another web!"
Not on a December night, temps in the 20s or below, in high elevation Colorado.
That's why Chief Kolar has a pretty and completely intact spiderweb on the cover of his book:
https://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X
It's an important clue.
I think you are right about moving the body--he was specifically told "not to touch" anything he found.
> I haven't been able to find one where the author didn't already have a bias on who committed this murder
I believe Chief Kolar went in with an open mind, kept his mind open reviewing the evidence, and then started forming conclusions.
https://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X
>A former lead investigator in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case breaks six years of silence. Foreign Faction blows the cover off the lone-intruder / sexual predator theory, and reveals startling new evidence that heretofore has only been seen by a select few. Explore the journey of these discoveries and determine for yourself who really was responsible for the kidnap and murder...
If you read this book, the spiderweb in the cover art will make perfect sense.
Thank you. OP never gave link or reference.
Here is book on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/JonBenets-Gift-Jane-Gray-Stobie/dp/0967572010
Review:
>Martha Calkins
>1.0 out of 5 stars
>Worst Book Yet on the JonBenet Case
>Reviewed in the United States on February 11, 2008
>You don't even have to read between the lines to see this is a disgruntled failure who saw a chance for some attention. By her own admission, even before working for Access, she had trouble finding and holding a job. Forget about her nonsensical, delusional channeling, she can't even get the known facts of the case straight.
>Clearly the drugs and alcohol she says she consumed so copiously have left some permanent damage. Don't waste your money on this crazy lady.
And:
>Palmer
>1.0 out of 5 stars
>Fiction NOT FACT
>Reviewed in the United States on July 23, 2004
> Do not waist (soc) your money.
>This book should be entitled"Revenge: the fictional world of an ex-Ramsey employee"
>Physic? (sic, psychic) More like physco! I want my money and time back!
And I think I know this person!
>Jen D.
>1.0 out of 5 stars
>Well, now do you feel stupid?
>Reviewed in the United States on August 17, 2006
>So, it hasn't gone to court yet, but we have a confessed killer for JonBenet. I hope The Ramsey family sues you, Ms. Stobie, for the emotional pain and lies you have spread about them WHILE trying to make a profit from it. You're exposed as a psychic fraud, a nuissance, (sic) and other terms not fitting for an Amazon review. The real miracle will be if you can grow out of your waste of a life and become someone good in and for this world.
I assume JEN is referring to John Mark Karr. That didn't pan out so well.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0967572002#customerReviews
Ty Flashy Veg....
https://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X
Evidence. Logic.
If a child acting out at a beauty pageant, or grocery store, or department store, or a movie led to MURDER, Chuck E. Cheese would be A Quiet Place.
And Robert Whitson, the first detective on the scene, believes it was an intruder. He wrote a book, too. https://www.amazon.com/Injustice-JonBenet-Murdered-Sadistic-Psychopath/dp/1475074824/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1613920771&refinements=p_27%3ARobert+A.+Whitson+PH.D.&s=books&sr=1-1
Have you read Steve Thomas book? This could clear up a lot of confusion you're having about the case. It would explain a lot of your questions and issues. Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/JonBenet-Inside-Ramsey-Murder-Investigation/dp/1250054796/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=jonbenet&qid=1612991424&sr=8-3
Again, innocent people don't often get indicted by grand juries. Numbers are on my side. I think I'm safe where I'm at. Have a nice day. Take care.
> If they had to write a check, they also would have removed the Show from the Streaming Stores
Five bucks on amazon, may be free on Prime (not sure, not logged in)
https://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Of-JonBenet-Ramsey/dp/B01LXK9C3V
They did not apologize or issue a correction of any kind that I am aware of, and I just looked again. No apology, no correction.
Oh and as I was going through my highlights list on my Kindle, I found the source/cited book that Kolar calls a "comprehensive overview of national research that had studied sexual abuse perpetrated by children 12 years of age and younger. (Kolar, A. James. Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? (p. 367). Ventus Publishing, llc. Kindle Edition.)
So here is the link on Amazon for that book if anyone's interested:
The CBS special is still available on Amazon prime, CBS News still has promos for the series on its website, which tell us the "amicable settlement" between CBS and the Ramseys did NOT involve a retraction of the show or an apology.
The only statement made by CBS was:
>"The parties have reached an amicable resolution of their differences and will have no further comment."
It's this book
The first chapter gives some interesting insights into the early days of the Broderick marriage, before things went ka-bam. It shows how things progressed in terms of Betty's mental instability. I feel terrible for the kids who had to grow up in that volatile environment.
Never did hear the full and final scoop on how this book came to be published against Kim's wishes. Did she intend for this first-person account to be kept within her family, maybe to pass on to her own kids when they were grown? Idk but she obviously didn't have any legal ground to prevent it from being published. Strange. There was this comment on Amazon: More disgusting is that you continue to deny your participation in writing this with the original author. Sorry, Ms. Broderick but there is verified proof that worked together, had an agent, a book deal with Harper Collins, and were in works with Lifetime for a movie.
https://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-64-System-Video-Game-Console/dp/B00002DHEV
It's just the standard Nintendo 64 system. I've never seen a photo of the actual one he owned. Tons of kids had them.
​
I think that this refers to <em>The Cases that Haunt Us</em> - John Douglas. One chapter is on the JBR case. I recommend that book, the chapter on Jack the Ripper is excellent and offers what is probably the most likely explanation for who that killer really was.
Yeah I thought that was a great quote!!
That's why the RN was so clever as well as calling all the friends over. The whole house was contaminated.
The name of the book is, "I Will Find You."
https://www.amazon.com/Will-Find-You-Fighting-Homicide/dp/1478922427
Idk about you but Homicide Hunter is one of my favorite shows. :)
Ok, but removing the middle track means the train is useless as a toy, it will not work. It also not meant to be removed, which means you'd have to use tools. It doesn't just snap off.
Lionel track http://www.trainsontracks.com/lionel-model-trains-lionel-o-1-2-straight-track-6.html
HO track https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Silver-Straight-Atlas-Trains/dp/B000H6XL9O
The reason one rail looks longer is there is a "connector" that must be used to connect the tracks together. You need one for each rail at each connection.