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I wish they hadn't affirmed a 6 literal day (24 hours, sequential) as official LCMS doctrine. I think that interpretation is possible, but not necessary. If the correct interpretation is truly 6 literal days, then it implies that God created the world with apparent age, and I struggle with that. That seems disingenuous as a creation paradigm, to me.
I recommend the book A Biblical Case for an Old Earth by David Snoke. https://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Case-Old-Earth-ebook/dp/B00B856BQ8/ref=sr_1_1 He challenges the assumption that animal death could not have occurred before the Fall. He does *not* affirm Darwinian evolution. He points out that believing in an Old Earth does not necessarily entail macro evolution.
This is my belief. The earth is old (4 billion). The universe is older (20 billion). God miraculously created it all, including waves of plant and animal life forms. God literally created Adam and Eve from the dust, and from a rib, respectively. I think that Adam and Eve lived around 50,000 years ago (plus or minus).
Noah's flood wiped out "the earth" in the sense that it wiped out mankind except Noah's family. This was a miraculous, Divine, regional flood. The Hebrew word 'erets' is usually translated 'land', but traditionally has been translated 'earth' in the Noah story. If you read the story substituting 'land' whenever you read 'earth', as the Hebrew probably was originally understood, then you can see that the miraculous, Divine, flood did not need to cover Mount Everest. Moreover, this regional understanding of the flood is required by Psalm 104:5-9.
If I'm wrong, then I will joyfully stand corrected, whether in this life, or the life to come.
I highly recommend reading this book, "Called to Believe." It is a good description of LCMS beliefs and done in an understandable way:
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You may be interested in Mueller's Christian Dogmatics, which is a one-volume condensation of Piper. It's still fairly academic, but I found it readable enough to get throughv without too much trouble.
Also it's ten bucks on Kindle.
I commend you for reading the Book of Concord!
> I (like Rome, apparently) lumped Lutheran theology in as ahistorical, brand new, and hard core “sola scriptura” to the point of ignoring history.
If I could sticky a post, it would be that Reformation era principle of sola scriptura doesn’t mean Bible onlyism [mic drop]. So many just translate the two Latin words into English and assume that’s the principle.
I also highly recommend Getting the Reformation Wrong: Correcting Some Misunderstandings by James R. Payton Jr.
It does a great job of correcting common misunderstandings of what the Reformers meant by sola fide and sola Scriptura.
See my previous post for more on this
Virtue ethics is a topic some have dived (dove? doven?) into recently. Joel Biermann and Jeff Malinson are where I would start. Here's is one of Biermann's books - https://www.amazon.com/dp/1451477910/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_A2mjFb0EYRG4S
If you're looking for supplementary books to read (beyond original sources like the Small Catechism), these are both solid options:
Lutheranism 101, edited by Kinneman and Lane
Hallmarks of Lutheran Identity, by Schmidt
Henry Chadwick's history of the early Church is an older book but a classic.
This one, The Patient Ferment, is very much worthwhile as well.
For primary sources, the Didache is a good place to start, probably followed by 1 Clement and the seven letters of Ignatius of Antioch. Beyond that, longer works by Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and Tertullian. I think it's pretty key to concentrate on the Ante-Nicene writers of the 1st through 3rd centuries (before the Council of Nicaea in 325, and the Edict of Milan in 313) because of the shifts that happen in the 4th century as Christianity becomes legal, then quickly predominant, and finally the state religion. You could also call it the "pre-Constatine" Church. They're not perfect by any means, and there were plenty of heresies and doctrinal controversies, but it is still the Church at a time of minority status and persecution, not the later Late Antiquity or Medieval Church as a force of social and political power which is always problematic.
I would add Bonhoeffer by Eric Metaxes. Its a great story of a Lutheran theologian struggling with extremism in his time.
Ooh, I’m glad you’re not too afraid to ask!
Vocations are our relationships and responsibilities by which God uses us as means to serve others. So, when a person prays, “give us this day our daily bread,“ while God could send manna from heaven, ordinarily He sends us farmers, millers, truck drivers, bakers, etc.
You might remember that at the end of the Small Catechism, after the six chief parts, there is the Table of Duties. Those are some of the basic vocations we can have.
The big difference between the Christian doctrine of vocation and the common, popular view is that we don’t necessarily choose most or even any of our vocations, and when we do choose them, we should base our choices on God‘s gifts to us and the vocations we already have, not necessarily on our personal dreams.
I should also add the classic example that a shoemaker, for instance, is not a Christian shoemaker by putting crosses on shoes, but by shodding the barefooted.
While the doctrine of vocation underlies Lutheran thinking from the Reformation onward, it was never really spelled out thoroughly until the 1900s. As folks did historical research, they realized that this doctrine created a huge shift from the medieval view that only priests and monks were serving Christ in their vocation, to that all vocations serve Christ (minus pirating, prostitution, etc.).
A good recent book on it would be God at Work by Gene Veith. A more historical book would be Sermons on the Table of Duties by Ægidus Hunnius. (I do not recommend Wingren’s Luther on Vocation, since he became highly problematic, and Veith’s book is great anyway.)
A lot of people have read or been influenced by Wolfmueller's book about "American Christianity"
As a former evangelical, I think you might really enjoy it
https://www.amazon.com/American-Christianity-Failed-Bryan-Wolfmueller/dp/075864941X
Exciting times! I pray everything is going well. You’re doing great.
I’d suggest:
Find a regular time for daily Scripture and prayer, like breakfast, supper, and/or bedtime. (Once you start to have “regular” hours again, of course.)
It can be as simple as a Bible story and the Lord’s Prayer / “now I lay me,” or a complete Prayer service, like is in the personal daily prayer section of the LSB. (If you are a phone person, this free app by some Anglicans has short orders of prayer and Scripture lessons for each part of each day.)
Sing or listen to church music. Get a children’s hymnal and sing thru it for fun or when you’re bored. Teach them the motions to songs like Father Abraham. Listen to Christian kids songs as well as hymns. Etc.
An older practice is as they learn to read, find a Bible to read from. Read a chapter in the morning and a chapter at night, and have them read increasingly larger portions to help their reading skills.
If you’re a reader, I’d recommend The Common Rule: Habits of Purpose for an Age of Distraction. It’s Anglican again, but has lots of practical tips and tricks.
but the biggest thing, as someone said, is to show love to them, be open and vulnerable about faith with them, confess your sins to them, and let the Holy Spirit work His Gospel joy in them.
It’s a bit different from the Orthodox perspective. However, he has books on the subject and some information on his YouTube channel.
Union with Christ: Salvation as Participation (A Contemporary Protestant Scholastic Theology) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1952295459/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_a_BD7N9Y778RHE7C6ACXNB
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The Concordia Publishing House version ( Compliments the Treasury nicely ):
I also wrestled with the similar issue as specially when some of my friends converted to OC. I myself was baptised in OC as a child, but raised as atheist. In age of 16 years old converted to Christianity in OC, but later on I've made a trip in a whole variety of churches: Baptists, seminary, Prezbiterian, Reformed. Ended up in confessional Lutheran. After my personal research of that particular issue I came to conclusion to hold two views together: Tradition/apostolic succession and Lutheran based on holding the true faith. In the same time I'm quite relaxed in the Lutheran Church bc there is openness for such views (maybe not in every place but still). I'm not looking for any new changes. I would suggest to read a book of Catholic theologian, who shows that the historic record is not such a clear and obvious. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apostles-Bishops-Development-Episcopacy-Church-ebook/dp/B005VBA07Q
This is more for history buffs, so is not precisely what you are asking for. But if any are curious how us two first met to discuss similarities and differences, this is it.
This might interest you.
https://www.amazon.com/Augsburg-Constantinople-Correspondence-Theologians-Confession/dp/0916586820
It is some letters early Lutherans wrote to the Orthodox Patriarch in Constantinople. He wrote back what he liked and disagreed with, which started a dialogue. Spoiler alert: eventually the Patriarch said “I see you as friends, but don’t approach me on this again”.
I personally have two gripes. They do allow asking for “intercession” from dead saints. As they view it, it is no different than asking members of your church to pray for you. However isn’t asking for anything still praying?
Second is Theosis (deification). At best, this is just a poor choice of words and it just means returning us to our Adam like state prior to the original sin. At worst, it approaches what Mormons believe, and I know a few Mormons who like to use Theosis to justify “As God is we shall be”. I think the Orthodox view lies somewhere between the two extremes.
Alvin Schmidt - Hallmarks of Lutheran Identity
This book came out around the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. Great resource for Lutheran doctrine and why it's faithful to Scripture.
Not specific to your request, but this is the apologetics book that a pastor at my Lutheran high school recommended to our faculty and student body: Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World https://www.amazon.com/dp/1401676707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_KE5VMDVD3FCF94ZBD7TY?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
This was a long time coming. I would highly, highly, highly recommend that anyone who wants to know the underlying reasons for the state of Christian colleges and universities in America should read James Burtchaell's magisterial book, "The Dying of the Light". I cannot even begin to do it justice by summarizing it, but here is my attempt. https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Light-Disengagement-Universities-Christian/dp/0802844812
Every single private college in the united states, with almost no exceptions (Cornell University i think is the only one) was founded by churches to train ministers and missionaries; Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Dartmouth, Boston College, Boston University, Cornell, Washington University, Wake Forest, University of Chicago, New York University, and so on and so forth. As part of the broader trend of "non-sectarian" to Laicized, to secularized our nations colleges and universities have cut off their christian roots entirely. The same process has been happening at our own concordia system (Burtchaell devotes an entire chapter to Concordia Chicago).
The reasons go much deeper than light and transient causes like decreased funding, declining enrollments, challenging environments or any of the other litany of reasons usually offered.
> So are you saying the same thing as me?
Perhaps, but we’d have have more conversation to flesh out your statements. This is why I defined it and generally explained why I believe it no longer exists.
Note: I try to capitalize the term and explain the origins whenever I use it so that differentiates it from limited human will. I find in the other subs users tend to assume because we choose among earthly things that means free and willful aka Free Will.
> Even when we are called by the Holy Spirit we can choose to turn away.
Yes generally speaking but I’m hesitant to say we can just assume that means we can restrict or stop the HS’s “unction” or call. We have the opportunity to submit (or not) until at some point we reject so much we’re just given over by God to our rebellious rejection.
> But we cannot choose to go to the Holy Spirit
Again yes generally speaking but I’m not totally comfortable with limiting God altogether. If I remember right the Bible does say He has a chosen elect and that he’s reserved for himself vessels of mercy.
Hebrews 11 has a laundry list of Old Testament saints who lived in a season of Law before Christ manifested and pre-Pentecost. Yet they’re presented as giants of faith. Did they submit to grace in the same sense we do today post-Pentecost?
So we have to be somewhat careful when making short statements that draw a hard line especially when we’re speaking to a large general audience who perhaps doesn’t have some sense of biblical context.
Again it’s been years since I’ve read Bondage of the Will and perhaps I should read it again and make notes. I highly recommend the book of you haven’t read it.
When discussing free will it’s best to first define it.
Free Will is the liberty to see and discern all matters both divine and earthly to make a free and willful decision about one’s eternal fate.
Adam had Free Will, knew God, understood the eternal consequences and chose wrong. The consequences e.g. “Because you have done this ...”are man’s Fallen nature and a cursed fallen world.
Man now inherits Adam’s fallen nature, is hostile to God and retains an earthly will losing his proverbial divine goggles: is spiritually deaf, dumb and blind.
We can discern:choose among material earthly matters but not divine matters. There’s a season for everything and today we exist in the season of grace (God’s unmerited favor.) Unmerited = not by the merits of our works or discernment.
In this season we have the earthly vision to see and discern the evidence of the manifested earthly Christ (scripture, hearing/reading the Gospel, and the earthly parts of the sacraments aka means of grace) and make an earthly decision: submit to grace— or not.
> So for Lutherans is free will one way where we cannot come to God on our own but we can actively resist him if we choose?
Free Will no longer exists. A liberty lost is no longer a liberty. If one today could see all the divine consequences for rejecting grace who would reasonably reject it and choose the horrors of Hell?All are called to God by the unction of the Holy Spirit but individuals can ignore it and reject grace.
It’s been awhile since I’ve read Bondage of the Will by Luther and I’m willing to be corrected. Peace.
I recommend D'Souza's book, "What is so great about Christianity." It is brilliant.
My view was shaped by the book, A Biblical Case for an Old Earth. It is not necessary that the earth be old or young for the regional view of the Noah's Flood. But the author decided to address this related issue as well.
Chapter 8 goes into Noah's Flood.
https://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Case-Old-Earth/dp/0801066190
If your into somewhat older books, Gerberding’s The Way of Salvation in the Lutheran Church is pretty good. (Make sure you get the soft cover copy at the link.)
From Amazon: “In this classic work, George Henry Gerberding puts forth an explanation of the Lutheran view of salvation in light of American revivalism. He talks about such issues as Baptism, Sunday School, Christian parenting, Justification, and the difference between true and false revivals. This work is written to a lay audience and is a helpful introduction to Lutheran theology and practice. This edition has been updated with contemporary language.”
In addition to Luther's Small/Large Catechisms and The Spirituality of the Cross by Veith, I highly recommend The Way of Salvation in the Lutheran Church.
I, personally, preferred it to Veith, plus it's old so its free.
Mueller's Christian Dogmatics is well worth the ten bucks it costs for kindle these days. Excellent overview of the whole of Lutheran theology.
>Basically I was asking: "Since every single Lutheran Church where I live ordain women, and I don't feel like putting myself under the authority of women, can I don't go to a Lutheran church instead, where the Sacraments may or may not be administered to you guys' satisfaction?"
I have no idea where you live, but I have a VERY hard time believing this one. I know people who live here in the US who drive over an hour to get to an LCMS church. Is it a peculiar dedication? Yes, and quite admirable. I would be happy to even find a church for you, but I would need a location from you.
As to the question of interpretation, NO. Individuals do not interpret scripture. We place ourselves at its feet and learn from it, exactly as Peter lays out: scripture isn't meant for each man's interpretation, but rather it is an inspired text that speaks clearly where it needs to.
As to Apostolic Succession, it is "claimed because the laying on of hands is still part of our ordination, and our pastors have claim this back to the reformation, and therefore beyond. This is merely to say we are an apostolic church, as we confess in the creed, "one holy, christian, and apostolic church."
When it comes to the topic of ordination, the synod, through its use of the seminaries, chooses who is fit for ordination. However, Augustana 14 states very plainly that it is the call by which a Pastor is rightly able to live out his role as ordained. To state succinctly, it is a hybrid between ecclesiastical order and congregationalism, although that descriptor isn't the best. To gain a full understanding of this, C.F.W. Walther's Church and Ministry will be enlightening.
This is the basic seminary dogmatics (systematics) textbook:
It's not too inaccessible to a layperson who's interested.
^That's ^why ^I'm ^here, ^I ^don't ^judge ^you. ^PM ^/u/xl0 ^if ^I'm ^causing ^any ^trouble. ^WUT?
On page 228 - 230 of this book which is probably the book you got when you started catechism classes. It's talked about in the Office of the Keys near Confession and Absolution.
When I get a moment, i'll type out a few quotes for you, but i'm supposed to be doing something.