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You can do lots with extra electrical power!
1) Store it for later as electricity.
This requires batteries and associated equipment that monitors when you're over-producing, and stores the energy appropriately, and then is able to pull that energy back out and feed it into your home's grid when appropriate. Sadly while this is the 'ideal' thing conceptually, it's quite expensive often. :(
2) Store it for later as thermal storage.
You don't need heat, but what about cooling? You can use excess energy to cool down something with a high thermal capacity (say, water?) and then use that to cool something else off later (like your food, a room, or the whole house even).
Again though, this could be expensive. But it can be as simple as a chest freezer that you freeze ice packs in when you have excess power, and use them to keep your lunch cold. :P
3) Tailor your usage so you're using more when you have it, and less when you don't.
Sunny day outside? Do your laundry. Charge your power tool batteries. Charge your Electric Vehicle if you have one.
Cloudy Outside? Maybe do the laundry later. Turn some lights off.
4) Do something fun with it.
When you're overproducing, you could of course use it to do something like a CPU/GPU-power-hungry task, such as mining Crypto-currency or Folding@Home. While these and others like them aren't strictly speaking very profitable to you a lot of the time, they make it so the power isn't completely wasted. And maybe you get some entertainment out of it!
​
Try this one from Amazon. You can also find them on eBay for around $20-30. Search for hst21. They are made by a company called yhdc.com. Has a 21mm opening for wire. There are current ranges from 50a to 500a
(Rated Input: 200A) Split Core Hall Current Sensor,Can be Used to detect DC,Pulse Current,Measuring Range: Plus or Minus 600A,The Working Principle is The Hall Effect,Mounting Type: Plate-Type https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076DVLSRD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_582SHJGSG3NSVM5VJJ4B
Link is for a 48v version, but the drop down box has 12v 30a model. Uses a mosfet, rather than a relay, so very low drain. Adjustable setpoints, with dip switches.
OP won't want a boost converter. 15.6V in and 12V out means a fried camera since a boost converter can only increase the voltage.
You want a buck-boost converter. There are cheap chinese ones on Amazon and Ebay that work very well for small devices. Example. There are of course bigger and smaller ones depending on price. That specific one is probably overkill for a camera. If you want something nicer this is hard wired for 12V output.
These are the 200AH 12v LifePo4 from Amphere Time. I've had very good experiences with their customer support/service.
As for a built in inverter, I didn't realize you needed or expected one. I'm sure you can find a separate one for around or under $1000 depending on your use case.
An Epever mppt isn't that expensive either. 20A is plenty for the panel.
>some light use.
What do you mean by this? What have you been running? You mentioned a /3000 Watt/ inverter. This is not 'light use' for those batteries if you are using anywhere near even half the power rating of that inverter.
If you need a 3000 Watt inverter on 12 volt batteries, that's 250 Amps draw if you're maxing that inverter out. That's insane.
But, I get it, RV is 12-volt, you can't fit a large battery bank (physical size) because obvious reasons, etc. ...
You need Lithium batteries to take that kind of abuse in the form factor you want. Go buy two 100 Ah, 12-volt Lithium (LiFePO4) 'drop in replacement' batteries from a company like Battleborn or similar. It'll cost you a pretty penny but you can just have the two in parallel (+ to +, - to -) and drop them in as a replacement. And there will be a warranty, too. :) They'll likely fit with little to no adjustment in your current battery box as well. :) (Measure to make sure before you buy!)
https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Volt-Deep-Cycle-Battery/dp/B06XX197GJ/
Note, I do not work for or represent the company who produces these batteries, nor do I own any, but others seem to have liked them just fine, and LiFePO4 with built-in safeties is what you want.
Note, you will have to make sure you charge controller is set properly as per the manufacturer's recommendations.
​
>Should we disconnect the controller when we remove the panels?
No need. But disconnect the panels first if you are going to remove the batteries to replace them.
​
>The controller has been on during the night and showing a quick loss of % when it gets dark.
Normal. Renogy's battery meter is a voltage based state of charge on those ones. It's complete BS. It means nearly nothing. It generally treats 'float' as 'full', so of course when the sun goes down it drops like a rock.
> I might even hook the monitor up to my trailer
That's what I was thinking, and if you can measure each appliance separately, even better.
The 'Ah-capacity' of (lead-acid) batteries depends on the discharge current, see chart, 2x25A one after the other gives a longer battery life in 'Ah' than 50A at the same time (hopefully you are too busy to worry about that), but you might want to keep that in the back of your mind.
I think a shunt would help. It's possible the charge controller is just wrong, maybe there's a firmware update or something that you're missing. You could try contacting support, but I don't have any experience dealing with Rich Solar or know if their support is responsive or not.
If you don't want to waste money on a shunt, get a clamp meter. Or something like this: https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Digital-Current-Voltage-Transformer/dp/B01DDQM6Z4
I have that exact model on a couple of circuits on my off-grid solar setup to measure DC amps and volts to certain parts of the system.
You can't wire to all 3 batteries together as that would permanently connect the start battery to the house batteries, and likely melt the wiring when you start the vehicle.
Instead you have a couple options:
A) Wire the solar to the house battery up front only, and use a DC-DC charger to keep the starter battery topped off.
B) Buy a charge controller that's specifically designed with a secondary battery connection for the start battery.
C) Get another smaller solar panel and cheap charge controller for the start battery only.
I bought temco as well. They do have one that is terminated with mc4 connectors for 90 bucks. so 10 bucks cheaper and for one run you don't have to terminate a side. I think it's gone up by $5 though:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NPT6LR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> I want efficiency to be a primary concern while disregarding the cost of running thicker wires, but within reason. I don't want to run 25 feet of 3/0.
Wiring is sized primarily based on amperage (for large loads) and to power a 3000W inverter off 12V that's 250A or a 4/0 wire. Using your batteries in a 24V arrangement and a 3000W inverter is 125A and you could power it with AWG 0, shorter run the better. I sized the wire with this chart
A 6000W inverter on 12V (500 Amps!) is pretty well out of the question. There are options to go from 24V DC to 12V DC, something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Converter-Reducer-Regulator-DC15-40V/dp/B01JAIC7OO/ref=sr_1_1
You could keep something like this charged up:
> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07SM5HBK1/
Basically a small battery and inverter combined. It has a wall charger and maybe one of the smaller panels could charge it directly in an extended blackout with some rewiring.
I'm an engineer who also builds things, so I tend to mix up brain and hand skills when talking :) No amount of craftsmanship can make up for certain gaps in knowledge, but you can learn anything if you keep researching it.
> Also he doesnt want to grid tie anyway so I'm happy to convince him to swap the inverter, the second I saw it I was shaking my head, I'm pretty sure it would have a hefty power draw at idle anyway right? making it terrible for this application.
The PIKO inverter can only function when one side is connected to solar panels and the other side is connected to the grid. There is no way at all to use it in an off-grid system, so ordering it was just a mistake.
> One other question lol, I have a good ceramic soldering iron with inverter (up to 400f or so), it would be easy so should I tin the wires before crimping and wet it in after crimping or is it entirely pointless and the crimps are more than capable (pretty certain he has crimpers, if not I'll get a pair)
Copper on copper, with properly crimped lugs of the correct size, is a better, safer connection than involving solder at all. This is the type of crimper I mean, for the larger wires.. Instead of solder, use a dielectric grease like Noalox to prevent water from getting inside the joint. The grease gets forced out where the crimp makes contact, but stays in the gaps between strands.
They seem to be lead acid.
If the mppt controller is not working correctly and you want to set it up, just disconnect the solar array first. Leave the battery connected so the thing turns on. Reset it. And begin config.
Most likely you have to enter config mode to be able to scroll through pages. this one is the same brand and model is similar. it has a lot of info there.
I run Victron on my personal setup, but installed one of these on a setup I don't own:
It seems to work very well. Perhaps it's not quite as accurate as Victron with their fancy mathematical formulas, but good enough to give you a solid idea of where you're at discharge-wise. Everything cheaper than that seems to lack bi-directional current monitoring or requires manual resetting every time at 100%, making them much less useful.
MakerFocus Raspberry Pi 4 Camera Night Vision Camera Adjustable-Focus Module 5MP OV5647 Webcam Video 1080p Compatible with Raspberry 3 B+/3B/2B+ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XYDCN5N/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_H63M0QNGPK3EGEAW1T40
This unit has pass-through charging via solar or ac.
I have been using it to power my router and modem like a UPS but directly from the dc outputs while the unit is plugged into wall ac. Not sure if meets your Ah requirements.
Something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/Controller-Regulator-Intelligent-Adjustable-Parameter/dp/B07STZSG9J
That's a cheap generic PWM controller but it will work ok as long as the batteries are at room temperature. But as everyone else says, you need a higher voltage going into the controller than the battery voltage, so you're going to have to put all your panels in series (or you can charge very slowly with a 2S2P setup).
Maybe put some geo textile under some gravel. I have used some Mutual WF200 that has worked really well so far.
Interesting, so he's using an MPPT boost converter from Genasun to give a constant 42V output into the charger, so it seems like you do need 42V or fairly close to it.
It also looks like if the voltage drops too far below 42V that it will not charge, so he uses 200W of panels to make sure he has enough wattage overhead.
These things are built a bit cheaply, but they're the least expensive way I know of to get an MPPT boost controller that's programmable. You could set that to 42V output and it should work with the Ryobi charger.
The main thing to keep in mind with an MPPT boost controller is your panel voltage needs to be lower than the controller output setting.
Since 100W panels are usually 16-20V output that should work just fine.
For lithium and lifepo4, I like victron’s blue smart charger. They have a 24v 12 amp version: Victron Energy Blue Smart IP67 12/24-Volt 5-25 amp Battery Charger (Bluetooth) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TKN76V7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_B8CKRFXSVFDY2T6KHFH5?psc=1
I personally use the 12v 25a version with my portable gas generator in case my portable solar generator needs a charge and it is night or cloudy.
I’m only familiar with the portable options, but if you need more amps or volts I know Victron and other manufacturers make beefier units.
I came to this sub looking for similar advice. I was looking at this Dokio 300W foldable unit (Amazon.ca). I'm not sure if I'll buy that, or find naked panels to build my own.
I like the idea of the suitcase style to protect them in storage, and the reviews seem at least acceptable. I could buy panels cheaper, and I'm looking at the Renogy DC to DC MPPT as an attractive solution to set up the power in my Westfalia. So far, I think I want to stick with flexible panels so that I don't have to put holes in my van.
I'm thinking of staking 2'-3' rebar outside four corners of the panel, then stringing the corners of the panel to it. Using this, I could anchor the panel in the wind, and raise any corner to face the sun as it travels in the day.
Anyways, thanks for starting the conversation.
Yeah, it's a switch capable of decent amperage, to allow/disallow power to flow from one side to the other. Follow the wires to find out what's what.
Example amazon product page: https://smile.amazon.com/Ampper-Battery-Disconnect-Isolator-Vehicle/dp/B07413JWLD/
Well your first thing should be to get that shorted circuit issue sorted out. A manual disconnect switch could help if you're out of luck trying to solve the problem otherwise. Here is a simple example:
https://www.amazon.com/Post-Battery-Master-Disconnect-Switch/dp/B001N729FS
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-MultiPlus-VE-Bus-Inverter-Charger/dp/B0054PRVAS
It's best to buy victron from an official reseller not amazon. Bay marine, north az wind solar blah blah. Price is all about the same.
I think I'm going to do series with bypass diodes for the whole lot. So I need 5 branch connectors and 5 of the connector with the diodes built in. Can you point me toward more information? I can only find stuff about the diodes inside the panels. Do they need to face a particular direction? Here is what I found.
Ideally you shouldn't be soldering those connections but rather crimping. As you said, getting heat into the joint is difficult because of the huge thermal mass. The chances are you have a "cold joint" meaning that the solder has not flowed fully and the electical resistance is high. High resistance generates heat and can be a fire hazard. If you do manage to get enough heat into the joint there is a good chance that you melt the cable insulation and shall need to cover with heat shrink tubing. Lastly there is reliability issue for environments where thr cable is subject to movement or vibration. Solder creap up the strands of the wire creates a stress point where the rigid solder ends and the cable is likely to crack at this point meaning broken strands and high localised resistance.
Crimping onto ring terminals is much better method. A tool like this is all you need.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07744NQ3B/
Cheaper tools for smaller gauge cable available too.
Top tip when choosing cable is to go with a very high strand count to keep it flexible. At 4/0 I'd be looking for at least 400 strand count.
Complete system at amazon for $8,750 with 40 solar panels: https://www.amazon.com/Solar-Panels-Inverter-Package-Quality/dp/B01LWZN1FW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526880561&sr=8-1&keywords=10kw+solar+panel
This is inverter and panels, the mounting and other components would be separate. The panels have a 25 year warranty through the manufacturer. This system doesn't monitor or compensate for shade.
Size of panel: approx. 39" X 66" X 1.57"
There are some good pics on Amazon of the charger here NOCO Genius G26000 12V/24V 26A Pro Series UltraSafe Smart Battery Charger https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004LX14Z2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_0iHyBbC289A84
Also, I actually dont think that Tracer will work, because it's maximum input power is 1050W, and my PV array is 1600W. Unless, do you happen to know if you can connect multiple Tracer controllers in parallel to handle more power?
That's an amazing idea!
I did some of my own research and I could not find a detailed guide, however I did find an article for a solar water heater that was delivered to the North of the Arctic Circle I thought was pretty cool.
I have heard these solar water heater panels by Heliatos on Amazon work well too.
It is pretty detailed and hope this will help you out!
Hey, i,ve been looking to do the same thing a year ago and bought smt very similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/GearMo-Power-Delivery-Charger-Works/dp/B07115BLPP/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?keywords=12v+usb-c+charger+60w&qid=1553124510&s=gateway&sr=8-4
It has 60w PD which is the best i could find. It foes not matter that its lower than your mb charger, it will just charge a little slower but works fine (been doing this for one year)
The product you found looks like it might be better since its a bit larger and doesnt have to cram everything in a car socket.
I believe i did notice that this doesnt work with the apple supplied usbc to usbc cable but it did with one i bought as an extra.
In any case: definatly get a plain dc solutiin since going trought the inverter (dc->ac) and your chargers transfo (ac->dc) is just horribly inefficient.
That is a very cute chip but as far as I know it isn't used in any commercial products.
I mean boards like this. Though that is pretty expensive for one. And the built-in volt meter can't be trusted. Mine reads 0.2V low.
Overcharge is prevented by the set voltage on the regulator. But you want a buck regulator not a boost. Bucks will lower the voltage. A 12V 1A panel can be lowered to 4V (and 3 amps) that the batteries need for charging. Set the voltage correctly and they won't be over charged.
A simple "dumb" switching regulator won't be as perfect as MPPT but it will be close. And it will be far better than PWM choppers most <100W controllers use.
Ok, so that clears up the battery rating. So a 100W panel, means it generates 100W in an hour? Do all panels follow that same logic or are some out there trying to say they're a 100W panel but only over 2 hours?
I'm just using those leds lights as a known baseline, they're my overhead shop lights in a 32'x36' garage. I was pretty stunned at how much power they used.
They are these for reference: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BQS4CL1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
So if my lights consume 600W and I wanted to run them for 8 hours a day, that's 4800Wh. If I wanted to run them off fully charged 100Ah batteries without any solar on a single day, would that mean I would need 4 100Ah batteries?
600 / 12 = 50A = 1hr | 100Ah = 2h | 8h / 2h = 4 100Ah batteries? What is the simple forumula for converting AmpHours to watt hours?
Well it's mostly dependent on what cell type they are, and what voltage that is.
You can maybe wire them up as a 12v battery, and divide them up depending on how they fit in a battery box https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-HM318BKS-Snap-Top-Automotive-Batteries/dp/B004W5SGBO
They also are dangerous and I hope you have knowledge and/or are willing to learn! You'll need proper sized wiring/bus bars, you shouldn't solder to any cell directly so if you were to disassemble them it makes it harder.
Ah I see. Ok you have two options. First is they sell usb power meters. Like this: https://www.amazon.com/Diymore-Charging-Detector-Voltmeter-Multimeter/dp/B01L6Y3IMK/ref=asc_df_B01L6Y3IMK?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80401905752482&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&...
That will tell you what is flowing out of the usb. Some of those meters have an app to get a nice graph. You’ll have to search around for that.
Second option is to buy a charge controller that has Bluetooth. There are many many out there. I always recommend the Smart Solar controllers from Victron. They are the best but you pay for it.
Thanks, yeah there is not a controller built in. I was hoping since it's a deer feeder that is just drawing once a day a very small amount I could get away without a controller but sounds like I need something like this anyway?
You can get various panels with pretty much whatever you need in them. Here's one that I've used for a small setup. I have larger ones that I've used as well (more switches and connection options). The only drawback is that you'll need something to mount it to. In my use case for this small one, my battery is secured in a case that's oversized for it, which allowed room to mount the panel.
Ok, that pump has basically built in electronics to convert straight panel DC voltage to AC to run the pump motor, interesting. I assume you want to be able to switch over to mains power when solar output is insufficient to run the pump? If you're switching when panel output is low, such as under heavy clouds or at night/dusk/dawn then a regular switch would work. I can think of a way to do it with two switches, a knife switch and an A-OFF-B selector switch. The knife switch would be closed first to short the solar panels, i.e. connect the positive and negative wires from the panels to each other. Your panels and wires won't be hurt by this if they're set up as a full string. The knife switch will be ahead of the selector switch, with the panels shorted the selector switch will not have any internal arcing, and when the knife switch is opened the large contact distance will extinguish any arc that might form. You could use this switch:
https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-Universal-Changeover-SZW26-20-Exterior/dp/B07SKNMY9P
And possibly a knife switch like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Houseuse-Circuit-Control-Disconnect-Switch/dp/B075ZSGFJP/
Note, that's rated for 220VAC, which is the insulation value, and the 15A rating covers the likely <10A from your panel string. Knowing how your panels are wired and what their V and A ratings are would be helpful. Most solar panels produce less than 10A so that the wiring and connectors are standardized, and are connected in series to keep the amperage the same while increasing voltage. If you're using a combination parallel and series-connected panel array that complicates things a bit.
Anyway, back to the knife switch, if you're doing the changeover when panel production is low due to clouds, night, etc, then arcing won't be a problem anyway, especially if don't open the switch until the sun is off the panels or one or more panels are fully shaded.
Knife switches, there’s a bunch of them on Amazon, I use several of the orange ones for 70v/10a solar array disconnects.
This one is 400v/200a
https://www.amazon.com/YXQ-Double-Electric-Safety-Switch/dp/B0762J9MBJ/
You can use it in the meantime if you keep an eye on it and turn it off before the battery is fully charged and the BMS disconnects it from the charger (maybe turnoff the charger when the battery voltage reaches around 13.8 volts). You won't have any problem as long as the BMS doesn't disconnect while the charger is still powered up and delivering current. The low impendance of the cells will keep voltage spikes from developing across them, at least at the frequency content that charger will produce (providing it is a good old-fashon heavy rectified IE transformer type charger), the concern comes in if the BMS disconnects ans then any voltages spikes would show up across the BMS's power MOSFET. You could also mitigate the risk if you added enough capacitance across the charger (at the battery terminals) to absorb the energy of any power spikes, to keep the peak voltage within the bounds of what the BMS can handle (specified by the maximum number of batteries the BMS says can be connected in series). If you have the extra money, I have been using one of these since before the various Youtube channels have been making them cool: https://smile.amazon.com/Power-CON120AC3648VDC-Converter-Battery-Charger/dp/B08KKNK4L9/ref=sr_1_2?crid=C06PJF5NF9KM&keywords=aims%2Bbattery%2Bcharger&qid=1670162515&sprefix=aims%2Bbattery%2Bcharger%2Caps%2C88&sr=8-2&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac2169a1-b668-44b9-8bd0-5ec63b24bcb5&th=1
Get yourself a Victron Smart Shunt, they’re $130 and there’s a bluetooth app for your phone.
https://smile.amazon.com/Victron-SmartShunt-500AMP-Bluetooth-Battery/dp/B0856PHNLX/
There are other coloumb counters like the Bogart Trimetric which I use because it has it’s own display but they’re $180 and require a separate shunt for another $40 or so. I bought them before the Victron was available.
There are also not-so-smart coloumb counters that only measure power going in or coming out but not both and others that require you to manually reset the counter each day. All in all the Victron is the best imo.
With the data you gave, I think the easiest way for you is to sell your pannel and use a battery combiner (check the one for your specific van) with a battery bank and an inverter. And go check some vanlife YouTube channel.
Would something like this work: ?
the people i know with the pressure activated heated pad has in fact been housing "little miss princess fuzzy nuts", their name not mine lol.
i dont know what they used, but i did a quick search:
might check youtube for reviews, if you go that route. when we were younger we always had outside animals and made sure they had little houses, tossed bails of hay around the shelters and blankets for a bed, and kept the shelters up off the ground, now our outside friends get electrically heated homes lol, maybe times are not so bad after all haha
Pretty much, another option is to use something like this combined with a conventional car charger, Baseus are pretty good in my experience.
If you have the tools to crimp basic spade terminals onto the end of some MC4 leads it would be a sturdier system I think.
You can convert between amps and watts by multiplying by the battery voltage. A "48V" LiFePhO4 battery is more like 52V across most of its discharge cycle.
So, your 100Ahr battery holds 5200 Watt-Hr of electricity. A 2000W charger would take (5200 Watt-hours divided by 2000 Watts) or a little over 2 and a half hours.
But... Battery chargers are not often rated in watts; usually they are specified with charging amps. That makes me wonder what you're thinking of using to charge the batteries.
What particular "2000-Watt Inverter Generator" are you thinking of? Generally, batteries are charged with something simply called a 'battery charger' without words like inverter or generator.
Amazon has an 8 Amp charger suitable for LiFePh04 batteries:
https://smile.amazon.com/Battery-Charger-Lithium-Phosphate-Protection/dp/B09M9JVTQV
Or, a 20 Amp charger:
https://smile.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Battery-Phosphate-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B0BGHG5XSW
When the charger is specified in Amps (which is usual), divide the battery capacity in AmpHours (100) by the charging current (8Amp or 20Amp for the two above) go get 12.5 hours or 5 hours.
If you have a 48V LiFePh04 battery charger that puts out 2000W, then keep in mind that 2000W divided by 52 volts is (2000/52) is a charging current of 38 amps. That's going to require suitable cables to carry the current.
Google "Roof rake" or "Foam roof scraper". And beware of Amazon. I'm literally looking at the same Joe Snow roof rake from Amazon for $99 and from Bed,Bath & Beyond for $49.
I'm beginning to think this IS a thing.
Frididaire: 8,000 BTU cooling capacity / 7,000 BTU heat pump / 3,500 BTU supplemental heating capacity
PerfectAir: Click specs at the bottom then view, separate ratings for heat pump heat and supplemental resistive heat. Like it does both.
I'm sorry to bother you again but maybe you have time to answer one last question.
Do you think I can use these with the portable router/dedicated hot spot I have? The problem I'm seeing is that the router/hotspot has just one female USB port so how would I connect it to the wireless bridge AND solar panel.
Thank you, there's lots of sun.
Would this be overkill for a power bank?
Does your charger, or mppt charge controller have a screen to let you know how many AH you have charged?
https://www.amazon.com/HTRC-150A-200A/dp/B07H1B4PN1
Maybe something like this would help you know the amount of power you use
Update: So I finally got some time to test a buck converter between the panel and the EB3A. TLDR: This is a viable solution, with a few caveats. Finding a buck converter that was rated for the power wasn't too tough. I used a DROK unit that was rated for the input voltage, and targeted an output voltage of 25 volts. As long as the panel was in full sun, I was successfully pushing about 130 watts into the EB3A. u/mrCloggy was right though, any shade on the panel did freak out the buck converter. While it's not the most elegant solution, it does work in a pinch. Thank you all for the considerations and guidance on this!
>h is a really bad way to give the capacity of a battery. A 100Ah LiFePo4 cell (3.7V) is a totally different beast than a 100Ah 48V battery. With both being 100Ah, the difference in capacity is 13x.
ac is a beast, I used the renology calculator.
I will be doing 12 or 24v system. I want to do 24v but parts are hard to find when you are in an rv if soemthing goes wrong. so by my calculation we would have 2400ah at 12v or 1200 ah at 24v.
Here is a link to our first battery
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09F9M8SBF/ref=ewc_pr_img_3?smid=A3J6S35PCL5YT2&psc=1
the epever 40 amp MPPT Solar Panel Charger works with 600W Solar Panel on 12V Battery System and 1200W on 24V Battery.
So I will figure out if I wire our batteries in series or parallel for 12 or 24
You could use something like this: https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/phoenix-smart-ip43-charger in combination with a timer like this: https://www.amazon.de/ZEITSCHALTUHR-Tagesprogramm-Schaltzeiten-Au%C3%9Fenbereich-Kinderschutz/dp/B01MSOSCBI (+- the plug type).
It will charge the battery every night for a set number of hours. It will might reach 100% every night if the battery isn't too big and empty. And it will not in any way balance this against the expected solar input on the next day (you might throw away solar power because the battery is already full).
What life span to do you get with other loads? Also how long between charging and use is there? The inverter could be using a lot of standby power. Or it could bad and just sucks the batteries dry.
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You may want to look at 12v solutions. You can get low wattage heating pads from amazon.
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https://www.amazon.com/12V-Flexible-Polyimide-Heater-Plate/dp/B07P2RJDPL
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Hook up the heaters to the load output of the charge controller and that should cut off the power to the heaters before the batteries are drained to low.
For the chicken's water bowl, you can run a 12v heater pad off of the load output from the charge controller. The CC will cut the power to the load when the batteries get to low.
Such as: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B2RBBR9Z/?th=1
I've used these in cat shelters. Sandwiched between terracotta tiles. Gentle diffused heat.
You could take that idea, heating something else directly like a couple of bricks, then a fan to move air over the brick. The idea is to keep the space from freezing, not get it to 70f.
These are great for temperature control: https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Max-1200W-Temperature-Controller-Greenhouse/dp/B01HXM5UAC
I have one for controlling beer fermentation temperature and it works very well and is easy to use. Pug your fan into the cooling socket and a small heater of sorts to the heating socket. Depending on the temperatures OP is dealing with I would recommend a seed warming mat (used to keep seeds warm for germination) in the cage but not with the batteries directly resting on them. They provide a gentle 20w of heat spread out well but they will get hot if you put something directly on them and the heat can't escape.
I would grab one of these emporia smart plugs (or a few) to monitor output and see how much you actually need for a day.
Gaming PC energy use can vary pretty widely, depending on what you're doing and how long you're doing it for.
100W USB C PD can deliver up-to 20V. The victron 30A MPPT can charge 12V batteries with that.
BTW, the trigger boards look this: https://www.amazon.de/Schnellladeausl%C3%B6ser-Detektor-Notebook-Wechselplatine-Adaptation/dp/B08FD6381L/ and are usually Chinese specials (you get them for cheap, but it's only available for like 6 months till another model pops up). That's why I cannot recommend one: the ones I use are no longer available.
Okay, thanks a lot for the advice! I'm very new to all this so please forgive me if this is a stupid question; Could I not use a small DC-DC to charge the batteries directly? So from EcoFlows car jack --- DC to DC charger --- AGM batteries. It doesn't have to be fast at all so their 9A dc to dc would work for me.
I was thinking this one: https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-Orion-Tr-110-Watt-Converter/dp/B01LYZZRBQ/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=victron+dc+to+dc+9A&qid=1667076145&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjk1IiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sr=8-8
In my comment above - "What about propane or diesel heaters?"
They are fairly common in RV's, large trucks, anywhere you want to heat a space and don't have easy access to large amounts of electricity. It needs a 12V battery for ignition and for the LCD screen/thermostat etc but a car battery will last a long time, there's not much draw on it. A small solar panelsuitable for keeping the 12V battery topped up would make this a complete system that sounds like it would do what you want....
Ah gotcha, devil in the details. Some people asked in the amazon Q&A and the general consensus seems to be SLA, however it is conflicting info.. Not surprised
https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Max-Battery-Replacement-Systems/dp/B010TXTNP0
Check it out...
This is obviously way overkill for what you're looking for but if you're looking to monitor your other power loads as well this is what I use
https://www.amazon.com/3-Phase-Emporia-Electricity-Metering-Conserve/dp/B08CJ3VC79
If your inverter has a remote power switch, you can wire in something like this low voltage cut-off. You can also wire the power through it if your total current is below it's limit.
Multiple smaller 48-12V converters on Amazon:
1 per unit or find a 30A unit that could feed a couple. Want to keep utilization under 80%.
Concerning the PowMr, you'd need a 12V battery on the output of the MPPT to get it to work. The 12V battery would have to be held at a low state of charge to stay within the load voltage input limits, and you'd be under 1300W.
For everyone who does not want to try and make Twitter work.
https://www.amazon.com/FATORK-Portable-Adjustable-Foldable-Sunpolars/dp/B09SSV5PK3
Have no clue of it's good. This is a DIY subreddit. We tend to build stuff.
Like the other guy said, anderson powerpole. Depending what type of panel you have, you need adapters to connect the panel to here, similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Connector-Compatible-PowerPole-Connectors/dp/B08NSWXY3J/
I have encountered a similar desire. What I ended up doing was using a timer unit like this one. I set it to run only during daylight hours. It is not exactly what your after which can account for cloudy days. But, if your looking for a quick and dirty hack solution that's what I ended up using.
May I throw in another, very left field idea? There are indoor exercise bikes, bike stands and even pedal units turning human power into watts. This is the upper end of the scale: https://www.investwestmidlands.com/news/2021/06/17/energym-launches-an-electricity-generating-bike/ , but I have seen DIY kits below $200.
Sitting at a desk, you could probably provide 25-50W while working (https://www.amazon.de/ZGFLSSJFY-Pedalgenerator-Rehabilitation-USB-Anschl%C3%BCsse-DC1-35V-Ausgangsport/dp/B09VFSCR2S ). Maybe not for an 8 hour day and it will hurt if you don't take it easy on the first week. But... It's reliable power, available on demand with pretty accurate specs. Compared to a wind turbine relying on wind speeds happening like once a year...
Don't know if that course promises what it says it does.
Most people who install solar, have no clue about electricity. They don't really need to. They just need to match numbers up.
All the on-grid systems are really simple. Installing the solar panels, is just a roofer that screws down brackets to the roof. They bolt a rail to the bracket, toss a panel on the rails, then screw down the panel using some pinch bolt system.
If you have micro inverters, you see that max panel watts and max voltage on the micro inverter sticker? Don't connect a larger panel then it says to it. The connectors are keyed so that a roofer can install them without screwing up, as that is who will be doing it.
As for the connection to the breaker panel, the micro inverter manufacture will provide instructions and you will need a certified electrician to do that, or know all the details and regulations for your area and do it yourself and get it inspected.
That is about all you need to know really. String inverters and battery systems add a bit more to that, but you are still keeping with not putting more volts or watts on a system then it's rated for.
As for learning about electricity, take that as a different task. I am from the old skool days of HeathKit and learning kits like https://www.amazon.com/Dr-STEM-Toys-Electrical-Experiments/dp/B094V9LN5R if you want to get the hands on aspects of it.
Lots of good teachers on YouTube with lots of good videos. I really think they are better then what you get in most classrooms.
As for reading maternal. https://www.homepower.com/ is the grandfather of solar magazines. It's out of print, but you can sign up for free and download the past issues. They have very simple diagrams on how systems are wired.
A few minor issues...
Battery type: Lead acid batteries cannot be discharged safely to 0%. Lead acid lifetime is best of you only take 30% if the capacity. So your Ah numbers x 3 if you use lead acid.
LiFePo4 batteries can safely discharge down to 20%. Add a bit of safety margin and you are good to go.
Each component has losses. The conversion losses in inverters is a major issue. I would run the lamps directly on the batteries if possible. It reduces the complexity of the system. There are charges with terminals for loads. There is one very cheap popular model that will turn on the load (= lights) at sun down and run them for a set number of hours.
Solar panels don't produce the max wattage the whole day. You will get something like 5x the wattage in watt hours (100W panel = 500Wh per day) in sommer and something around factor 2 in winter (100W panel = 200Wh per day. Those are my local averages, yours might be very different and vary a lot from day to day.
My personal guess: https://www.amazon.de/Thlevel-Laderegler-Controller-Solarpanel-Intelligente/dp/B08GQTZDVH (has a load connection with timer function. Buy 2 because they tend to die after a few years)
12V lights that can run on 14V (because a full battery is well above 12V), a LiFePo4 about 2x your Ah numbers (buffer for bad weather days) and panels (using the local factor between panel wattage and Wh per day...)
by the way, the "12" volt panels dont really exist in this realm. most of them are 18 to 24volts for a 100 watt panel.
i was going to recomend 300 to 400 watts,
the 24v limiation means you need to keep what ever you do under 24v.
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here is an example of one that would work, its 200 watts and is 24.3v ocv, which is good enough to work on that unit.
also, if you buy two of them for 400 watts, you will need to wire them in parralle to keep the voltage low enough for the input for the battery thing.
there is going to be a limit to how much amps the unit can take in as well as the volts. i disagree with the other person who said it will destroy it, i suspect it has a bms that will limit the amount of power it can take from the panel.
also, if you "over panel" for 400 watts, but the battery device can only accept 300 watts, then it will help produce power in lower/bad light situations.
i found that in about 2 seconds on amazon. ocv is 24.3v.
I'm working on my own DIY solution. I just got a couple of cheap temperature controllers with probes that will go in the middle of the 4-battery pack and on the outside of the battery pack, with insulation all around.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B078S2J7CY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
When both probes are below, say, 5 or 10 degrees C, the solar power (if any) will be diverted by a 30A relay system to a heater or two under the battery pack. Once both probes are warm enough, hopefully the batteries will be, too, and the system will switch back to normal charging.
I don't like solutions that use the battery's own power to heat themselves, mainly because these batteries often can't be connected in series, and who needs a dead, cold battery that's exhausted itself trying to keep warm?
Not sure what I’m missing, but any cheap PWM charge controller has an aux 5v usb port….
Like this: stick a battery on it and have 24/7 power and “pass through” charging and create the 5V all on same device. Any search for 10a PWM will yield similar price tag
Just some thoughts for you.
Make sure those parallel panels are not outputting too much current for your charge controller. You might want to consider a two strings of panels. Read the back of the panels and calculate what the Voc and Is ratings are.
You should be able to safely exceed the rated wattage capacity of your charge controller by adding the additional two panels you desire. I would however recommend not exceeding the current and voltage limits of the controller. Breakers/fuses are an essential component for these types of systems.
For interior rated wire splices I would recommend a butt splice with heat shrink connector. The heat shrink will glue them together a bit better. This is semi-permanent though.
If you want to play around with the configuration of the panels I would recommend a MC4 type connection. You can purchase the kits here. You can use lots of different types of multi stranded copper wiring. I would suggest looking for 'primary' copper wire from your local auto parts store.
I wish I could help more with your batteries but I am unfamiliar with this chemistry. I know these lead acids tend to die if they are over-discharged so maybe that is what happened? Try to recover the alive ones into a separate bank.
Have fun! You got a decently sized solar set up there and you can do a lot with it in the future.
I'm feeling like trying to do this on a 5v circuit instead of using a 12v system and then stepping down at the end is what's limiting you & causing these weak-output scenarios. A proper 100w+ 12v panel, charge controller and a AGM battery would provide days of service with cloud cover. A simple 12v to 5V USB block like this from Amazon and you've got high current & high reserve capacities. Unless you're trying to keep the installation somewhat small?
Neat, can you do Puerto Rico? We are getting 800w to 1000w per m2 year round
My neighbour installed a power wall from a company notorious for exploding rockets and poor quality cars, 25 years @ $150 per month to go totalling $45k, I don't know what kind of warranty the battery is covered by but it doesn't even make it though the night for them.
Hi thanks for this. I can fit about four panels on the roof so I was thinking of the max of four 100w panels.
Like I said I have two Duracell deep cell marine and RV batteries. I'm not sure how much they store or other specs I'm sorry I'm new at this.
I was thinking about this fridge or similar
Other than the fridge, the batteries run the LED lights, charges phones, the fan for the propane heater, and occasionally the water pump.
I really only go off grid for a maximum of 2 days when I go to the beach. We try to get RV spots with shore power but sometimes we don't get lucky and have to use what the RV has. Not doing anything extensive, so would just need enough juice for 3 days max. Hope this helps in calculations.
FIY, this may not work as well as you want. The USB C port is expecting consent good quality power, and the solar panel varies greatly depending on sunlight, direction, clouds, birds flying overhead, etc. Your laptop or whatever adapter you use may say "screw this crap" and turn off.
The method that will "just work" is to buy a solar generator, even one with a smaller battery, and have it handle all this for you. You can even let it sit outside in the best sunlight all day, then bring it inside and and charge your laptop at night.
If you really want to do this, I would grab a used 12V solar panel off the online classified for $20, and connect it to this.
https://www.amazon.com/Charger-WOTOBEUS-Charging-Cigarette-S21Ultra/dp/B09GJTF54Z
Wiring a step down buck converter directly to the panel might work. Something like this: https://www.amazon.de/Electronics-5V-3A-15W-Motorcycle/dp/B09B7X3XKH/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2IHPU24VWMKYM&keywords=dc-dc+step+down+buck+wandler+usb&qid=1664782915&sprefix=dc-dc+step+down+buck+converter+usb%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-3
Thanks. Here's what I'm using. Nothing crazy, just to charge and power small electronics like cell phones and tablets. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09JCNJGZ3/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I'm using this inverter. Nothing crazy, just to charge laptops.
Lots of issues with your setup making this hard, your far too small batteries being one, but let me just answer your question.
No, there is not.
But to do what you want, they make 24V water heater elements.
https://www.amazon.com/Dernord-Stainless-Heating-Element-Submersible/dp/B0182BEVJY
I would use that with a voltage controlled relay to cycle it off and on, so it will cycle. It will be slower then PWM setup, but will have the same affect.
Or you flick a relay and connect the solar panels right to the water heater element once your batteries are full.
Or, you use the 24V water heater element and a Xantrex C40 as it's a 30 year old design and does support dump loads. Once your batteries hit float (don't ask me how you figure that out), a relay turns on and the C40 goes into single stage dump mode set to a voltage slightly lower then your KID. So it will in affect, follow your solar panel output. The KID will be attempting to float the batteries at 27.8V, but the C40 will be dumping power into heat to try to get the batteries to 27.6V.
This is stupid stuff we did in the late 1990s when both solar panels where very expensive and batteries didn't last long. Now days, I don't recommend this at all, so you are on your own.
And before lots of people say it, you can roll your own solution with an Arduino or ESP chip.
I didn't know it was a actual product so I jury rigged one using an automotive 12v relay https://www.amazon.com/PACK-AMP-Waterproof-Relay-Harness/dp/B074FSZWVT (I falsely believed that I invented it), but they have prewired products as such https://www.amazon.com/AC120V-15Amp-Automatic-Transfer-Switch/dp/B0B2DJ4KBM that basically does the same thing.
For every solar question that takes the form of:
Can my solar run {insert machine here}
First measure the actual energy consumption of that device. If it is an AC powered device I would suggest a Killawatt meter. Measure the energy used throughout the whole duty cycle of the device: Night->day & winter->summer.
Honestly, my ballpark estimate is that no. That is not enough battery and/or solar to run that machine year round without interruption. It will run during peak sunlight hours and probably just fine in the summer months. But probably not through the night on the winter/cloudy seasons. It's close though, so maybe I am wrong.
Ok, got it! Thanks for filling in some of the gaps. I live up north so heating is constantly on my mind.
Lithium batteries are a little bit different than Lead. Many products are even designed to operate entirely parallel, like the EG4 model another commenter suggested, or Fortress, or Simpliphi. If you're looking at 100AH 48v batteries, you should be able to put a lot of those parallel to each other. I've worked on many systems with 8-12 batteries together this way. They each have an internal monitor system, so they level with each other when the battery is charged up to the absorb voltage.
You usually wire each battery to a combiner panel like this one and then run your big 48v wires from there to the inverter. The EG4 batteries have a smart little cabinet that parallels up to 6 together and then you can even parallel multiple cabinets together.
The "rule of 3 parallel banks" is mostly for strings of lead-acid batteries since a failure in one cell can quickly ruin the whole bank before you notice. One big parallel lithium bank is much smarter than lead-acid batteries and is going to be more successful for your plans than trying to make multiple banks and multiple inverters.
what you want is an automatic transfer switch. you need to get a power adapter to convert the mains to 12v, so you have two 12v sources, the transfer switch will take two 12v inputs, making one the ''default on' (solar), and if that turns off, it switches to the 2nd 12v source (mains with 12v adapter), when it detects the first source (solar) back on, it switches back. https://www.amazon.com/Power-Relay-Module-Control-Voltage/dp/B089Q6KLPQ/
I'm afraid not. I've let it lie for now but I think in future I'll probably get a panel with built in battery, and find some way to hook it up to the fountain (I assume there must be some adaptor available..) Camping panels look promising.
It looks like it costs as much as the whole water feature though, so I want to make sure we still like the fountain as much in future and we're not just spending double the money on a passing fancy!
Well in that sense you are building your own setup.
Here's a 40 amp 12/24v MPPT solar charge controller. Let's say you are using 24v solar panels (or 2x 12v in series to get 24v)- at 24v, 40 amps is 960 watts. So it'll handle up to 960 watts of 12vdc power output.
You'd then wire that up to a battery bank of your choice. Could be lead-based (SLA AGM etc) or lithium based. It will correctly charge and maintain those cells.
You can then use its power output for up to 960w of 12v power. Or if you need more, you can attach your load straight to the battery and pull whatever the battery can supply safely (just add a fuse inline).
The 200 watt “solar blanket” should be fine, it might charge slightly faster than the standard DC input.
A 50-80 watt panel will be a better size for this device, and practically will charge just as fast under sunny conditions.
Boab Solar blanket is 7.5 kg and 3.3 m^2 unfolded.
X-Dragon 70W (as an example) is 1.4 kg and 0.5 m^2 unfolded, outputs 18V and 3A max.
Rich Solar 50W glass panel is 3.7 kg and 0.35 m^2 .
I think the most important consideration is “free” - presumably - for the Boab, but it is overkill for this application.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B098ZTKTRZ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AOCNKY9C4B2SB&psc=1
i swear they know i am about to buy this thing, they just bumped the price up like 70 bucks lol
That's close to what you need. The switch expects a 3 phase source, but the power station is a single phase source. I expect it would still work fine if you split the power station. Do you have any of those: https://www.amazon.de/Stecker-Kupplung-Starkstrom-Drehstrom-VDE-Gepr%C3%BCft/dp/B083P5SSCK or those https://www.lueftungsland.de/artikel/29512/perilex-netzkabel-mit-stecker-fuer-ecomax.html in the house?
But that will switch automatically if the grid goes down. Your battery will run down very fast if you happen to run something heavy like space heaters or a washing machine at that time.
Note: adding stuff to the fuses box must be done by an electrician. They usually bring their own brand because they are responsible if it doesn't work as expected. Turning off power in the fuse box isn't trivial and opening that part usually invalidates the grid meter (you will pay a heavy fine for that).