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Just as a reminder of what Ethereum is (https://www.ethereum.org/): Build unstoppable applications Ethereum is a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference. Stand to that and let people playing with smart contracts take their own risk and assume them. TheDAO is just a smart contract, it's not Ethereum. Trust the code, check it before investing or don't play.
I find it funny that the currency is called ether and is knowingly going to evaporate in value soon. Regardless of the currency the DAO model seems quite democratic in its allocation abilities.
Here is a link to the DAO etheruem and explanation.
I am a founder, yes. - There were 8 of us. Vitalik Buterin, Anthony Di Iorio, Amir Chetrit, Charles Hoskinson, Mihai Alisie, Joseph Lubin, Gavin Wood, Jeffrey Wilke. There are others trying to attach "founder" to themselves now starting to crop up it's sad the amount of rewriting of history that emerging.
Go to https://www.ethereum.org/ and read front page: "applications that run exactly as programmed" so the parity code run exactly as programmed. Its their own fault that they wrote rubbish solidity code.
Yes essentially, we would have a system where you as the holder (or the bank until you pay off the mortgage) of the deed would be the only one with the ability to transfer it. There are solutions to the size problem, for one you can distribute it amongst the nodes on the network. The average user does not need to hold a full copy.
Also storage technology and it's cost go down year over year. Bitcoin was just the first coin that brought us the blockchain. It's evolved a lot and there are some really interesting things that have come out.
I don't know how much you follow cryptocurrencies but ethereum is pretty damn amazing. It's pretty much money creation, transfer as well as a way to provide all the services the financial institutions can provide without the need for the institutions themselves.
Hell it could even be used to set up a real direct democracy.
I know this sub is for making money, but I HIGHLY recommend donating to the dev team. Today's 'hiccup' could have been a lot more disastrous. Any donation > 2.014 ETH gets you a Unicorn token:
https://www.ethereum.org/donate
Also looking for an address to donate to the Parity devs, but haven't found one yet...
I would argue that calling it "the Ethereum Constitution" was done in bad faith. The link (https://www.ethereum.org/agreement) is pretty obviously your baseline legal / terms of service policy in place to protect a real-world entity.
While the average user may be able to make that mistake, Dan has extensive business experience and has had to sign off on a lot of agreements related to his ventures, including but not limited to EOS. I think he purposefully chose to add fuel to the fire by making a bad comparison.
A more apt comparison would be comparing it to the block.one / eos token purchase agreement: https://eos.io/documents/block.one%20-%20EOS%20Token%20Purchase%20Agreement%20-%20September%204,%202017.pdf, which, if you haven't had a chance to read, you really should.
the development on ETC is a contract where the purpose is to help crowdfund for other developments. Isn't this just the solidity code on ethereum.org?? https://www.ethereum.org/crowdsale
Unless I am wrong, but based on what you said, that is not development that is just forking ethereum's crowdfunding tutorial page.
>>up to 66% for a transfer to an unregistered user up to 30% for a transfer to a registered user
To be fair, that's the top end costs & they range down to 0.16% - it depends on the amount you are transferring.
But Vodafone, who are the "bank" running this i'm sure are making a fortune.
It's interesting if you look at Ethereum - that the capacity to produce software and apps on decentralized peer-to-peer networks is now about to become more widespread.
This just at a time, when 100's of millions more poorer people are coming online, who will want traditional banking services, but won't have access to old style branch banking.
There is obviously a huge, huge market here & huge demand.
It's interesting that the poorest parts of Africa & India may be the innovators here, they have no past infrastructure or preconceptions to bog them down; they can just go straight to the 21st century solution.
Just make a shitty altcoin on the ethereum network. It's just deploying a smart contract, vs building a client application if you're forking from ethereum or bitcoin.
The code is in the official tutorials for ethereum. https://www.ethereum.org/token
That's fixed pool though. If you want mining or some such, it'll need some more work.
I think you misunderstood what Vitalik does. He doesn't "know the structure of the code by heart".
Vitalik has a great intuition about how cryptocurrencies work. He can assemble disparate ideas into a coherent vision. This makes him good at decision making, as he can see consequences of each decision in the general context.
So his job is essentially to listen to various ideas, mull over them, and over time incorporate the best of them into the general vision and make decisions. This job doesn't require sitting in one place.
It's not an efficient use of Vitalik's time to do the coding. There are many people who can code, but few people can design stuff.
Ethereum Foundation has a management team, you can read about it here: https://www.ethereum.org/foundation
Vitalik is listed as a "Foundation Council", not as a manager, and not as a coder.
Discussion of EF policies should be a separate topic. My understanding is that EF wants to give as much room as possible to commercial companies, while restricting its work to core stuff. I agree that perhaps they could focus more on ETH usability. But I doubt it's Vitalik's responsibility.
> currency
Except Ethereum is not a currency. Straight from the horse's mouth, Ethereum is a
> decentralized platform for applications that run exactly as programmed without any chance of fraud, censorship or third-party interference.
Except post fork ETH is a
> ~~decentralized~~ platform for applications ~~that run exactly as programmed without any chance of fraud, censorship or third-party interference~~.
So basically, post-fork Ethereum is a platform for applications to run on. Kind of like AWS Lambda only orders of magnitude slower, more expensive, and less scalable coupled with massive ecological damage.
Yup, it is in the early stages of becoming a thing, but in the future tying assets / contracts into the blockchain is going to change everything.
See:
https://www.ethereum.org/
http://www.fastcolabs.com/3035723/app-economy/smart-contracts-could-be-cryptocurrencys-killer-app
http://www.coindesk.com/new-blockchain-startup-brings-contracts-digital-age/
edit: If you don't understand why, think of it this way. Having smart contracts encoded into a blockchain will allow for people to create automated and distributed corporations that can interact with the real world. Think of current automated high-frequency trading, but doing and completing real work.
Considering it's easy to set up one's own cryptocurrency, they'd have to ban them all. Specifically blockchain technology.
It's like banning encryption.
Good luck with that.
Awesome, thank you! Here is the link to the website : https://www.ethereum.org/
I do get confused on some aspects, as I'm more casually learning and less invested or tech savvy. In the interview, he seemed to suggest Ethereum is suited for 'low use' applications, like Word or PDF storage, and less suitable for something like Dota 2. Is that what you see as the potential for the tech at the moment?
Also (as I haven't used it), can you, for example, open Tor on Ethereum to browse anonymously via network or can you not connect to out of network data from within Ethereum?
I could imagine a 'reddit' built for Ethereum that would just be fucking amazing, but wanted to know your thoughts :)
> Ethereum demonstrably has central control because the founders were able to bail themselves out.
How does the founders agreeing with the fork and then still giving everyone a clear vote central control?
And how on earth would it compare to a bail out? DAO holders are not being made whole with external funds, their own funds are made whole.
> The trouble with altcoins is they have to try to grow too fast just to have a hope of getting attention.
Broad generalisations like that are usually wrong, you only need one alt to make that case. And there are enough alt's which cover a very specific niche which means it can never grow above a certain size.
Specifically for Ethereum the value seems to be a means to an end, but not the end goal. Read their website: https://www.ethereum.org are they pushing you into buying Eth?
The truth is Bitcoin is the most popular, most valuable coin there is. Wouldn't it make sense that this coin attracts the most gold-diggers? People who prefer security over everything? Aren't bitcoiners talking about turning it into digital gold? A settlement layer?
This isn't Vitalik's Ethereum white paper, which was published on ethereum.org. The ethereum white paper begins "When Satoshi Nakamoto first set the Bitcoin blockchain into motion in January 2009..." Here's a link to the ethereum white paper: https://web.archive.org/web/20150214231052/https://www.ethereum.org/pdfs/EthereumWhitePaper.pdf
This is a wiki page from github and begins: "Satoshi Nakamoto's development of bitcoin in 2009..." (https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/White-Paper) This is a later revised version from many authors (currently up to 132 revisions merged).
For art, I'd want the original, historical version authored by Vitalik, but that's just me.
I would like if you guys have any interest in games betting some cryptocurrency like bitcoin or ether (https://www.ethereum.org). Ethereum has a very great system of "smart contracts" to keep all the transaction ultra safe.
I've been waiting for you to rip the band-aid off so we face the uncertainty and heal. Loosing members of the coms team (after they've received their ether) isn't a big deal --probably even necessary to get costs under control. Are any high level technical folks or members of the foundation board leaving?
Web 3.0 in the making. We need to decentralize all these online services. This involves storing them in immutable blockchain-based p2p networks rather than on company-owned servers we have no control over. Alexandria is one of the projects that aims to do that. Another good one is https://www.ethereum.org/.
There are a number of sort-of similar projects currently ongoing (Ethereum or some of the new Bitcoin blockchain techs are others). Many seem like vaportware IPO's, though the underlying concepts hold promise. I am currently in the "wait and see" stage while these projects grapple with the initial technical hurdles and new tech must deal with.
/r/darknetplan and /r/Rad_Decentralization are probably the best places to look for news in the field (head's up, lots of ancaps and similar take to these techs).
Obligatory TL;DR
- Networks are not actually a human invention - slime molds and other collaborative organisms have been building network structures for billions of years.
- Networked entities survive by adopting collaborative behaviors - aligning individual and group objectives.
- Humans have been organizing as hierarchies for thousands of years. It was all we had. Yet, now we suddenly find ourselves with wide-scale access to a networked approach.
- Online collectives have a lot in common, structurally and behaviorally, with slime molds.
- Centralized agencies (such as governments) are still stumbling over how to deal with these kinds of entities.
- We are in the midst of a paradigm shift, as the influence of decentralized collectives moves from the dark corners of the internet, and into mainstream business and technology.
- Decentralized Autonomous Corporations, such as Bitcoin, are beginning to gather mainstream attention and support.
- Advanced programmable versions of this concept, such as Ethereum, promise to take these ideas to the next level.
- Those who can learn to think as a network will reap the greatest advantages of this shift.
Just looked this up because I was curious. This page from Ethereum's official site says, "The current branding guidelines will be updated to reflect a policy that all current Ethereum logos are under Creative Commons attribution 3.0."
Here is the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 information, which says you are free to, "remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially."
read this: https://www.ethereum.org/ether
According to the terms agreed by all parties on the 2014 presale, issuance of ether is capped at 18 million ether per year
Ether is to be treated as "crypto-fuel", a token whose purpose is to pay for computation, and is not intended to be used as or considered a currency, asset, share or anything else.
I think the problem is that we've got two very very different communities here:
A) people who weren't very interested in the technology or concepts but were excited by investing in something new with a buzz around it;
and
B) people who aren't very interested in investing but were excited by the technical possibilities of trustless dapps/contracts interacting by themselves without humans involved.
From the point of view of someone in group B, what you did was:
1) You took some dollars which were:
- stored in your banks database
- backed by faith in the US government
- under T&Cs effectively set out in US law
2) You then voluntarily exchanged those dollars for Ether, which was:
- stored in the many computers that maintain the Ethereum blockchain
- backed by faith in the Ethereum ecosystem
- under very scary T&Cs set out here: https://www.ethereum.org/agreement (which you didn't read)
3) You then voluntarily exchanged those Ether for DAO Tokens, which are:
- stored by The DAO Contract's logic in the Ethereum Blockchain
- backed by faith in The DAO ecosystem
- under very scary T&Cs set out here: https://daohub.org/explainer.html (which you didn't read)
That is not the same as buying an off-the-shelf Apple product. Insisting that it should be treated the same takes away group B people's rights to experiment with cool but risky technologies like Ethereum.
Besides:
- You haven't lost any dollars. You decided to sell them for Ether instead.
- You haven't lost any Ether. You decided to sell it for DAO Tokens.
- You haven't lost any DAO Tokens. They weren't stolen from you. You still have them. Admittedly you might have some trouble convincing other people they're worth as much as you paid for them.
I agree.
The contract allowed what happened. It was/is a bug in the DAO code. If the code of a contract is faulty, and you enter into the contract anyway, you are at least partially to blame. The contract did not work as intended, but it totally did work as it was written. Problem is, with smart contracts, intent should no longer be important at all. The contract is the law. If you re-introduce a human element later, this invalidates the whole purpose of a smart contract.
The mission statement for Ethereum itself https://www.ethereum.org/ :
> applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference.
The terms of the DAO itself https://daohub.org/explainer.html :
> The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The DAO’s code.
If they change the rules now, ETH does no longer hold any value long term. A fork, soft or hard, would invalidate ETH as a smart contract platform, and would lead to a run for the exit the likes you haven't seen before. It would just lose it's whole purpose.
Intent may still matter in the justice system. I have no problem with trying to get the guy and getting him in a court of law. I'm not saying what he did was exactly "legal". But trying to correct the wrong with human intervention inside a system advertizing itself as being free from it would be fatal for the whole platform.
I think this realization takes some time to reach the ether community, but I do see more and more voices for reason inside the ether subs, but also some very loud people screaming for intervention.
**LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE IS ALREADY DOING THIS. I'll back off for now. :) **
Ok if there is interest I will get an order of golf shirts printed. I have a good supplier for my record label to get shirts made and have dabbled in the merch business before.
I think some nice dark grey collared golf shirts with the logo on it and Ethereum underneath would look snazzy.
Exactly like this: https://www.ethereum.org/assets
I can do a mockup soon.
How many people are interested? This would be on a pre-order basis but it would have to be FIAT or Ethereum only.
Also, I would have to include shipping as part of the cost as I would get them shipped to me and then distribute from there.
Also considering doing a nice batch of ethereum diamond stickers and sending out a sticker with each order.
Potentially have this on the back but that would increase costs as another screen printing setup would be required: http://media.coindesk.com/2016/02/Screen-Shot-2016-02-24-at-10.42.13-AM-728x369.png
I noticed that the IBM/Samsung IoT project (ADEPT) dropped off the Ethereum.org site. It was still there on the 12th according to the Internet archive. Maybe they asked to be removed and are focusing on their own blockchain now? IBMCoin?
EDIT: My intention is not to speculate, for all I know it was accidentally removed in a website update. If it turns out IBM/Samsung are looking elsewhere, I know that is a mistake on their end. Ethereum is so cool and powerful that they'd be idiots to not use it. Just opens more doors for the rest of us :)
I wouldn't worry about it too much. That they didn't get it right on the first try (or is it the second?) is far, far less important than that the get it right, ultimately.
A while back, they provided a dev plan (link currently broken)...
https://www.ethereum.org/pdfs/Ethereum-Dev-Plan-preview.pdf
... which spelled out a stringent security audit for the algorithm. So I'm confident that what they release will be airtight.
My personal feeling is that the release schedule (originally late 2014) was always extremely optimistic and still is. But so long as they continue to update the community on progress and maintain the excellent level of transparency, the delays don't bother me at all. Better to get it right than release too soon.
Obligatory TL;DR
- Networks are not actually a human invention - slime molds and other collaborative organisms have been building network structures for billions of years.
- Networked entities survive by adopting collaborative behaviors - aligning individual and group objectives.
- Humans have been organizing as hierarchies for thousands of years. It was all we had. Yet, now we suddenly find ourselves with wide-scale access to a networked approach.
- Online collectives have a lot in common, structurally and behaviorally, with slime molds.
- Centralized agencies (such as governments) are still stumbling over how to deal with these kinds of entities.
- We are in the midst of a paradigm shift, as the influence of decentralized collectives moves from the dark corners of the internet, and into mainstream business and technology.
- Decentralized Autonomous Corporations, such as Bitcoin, are beginning to gather mainstream attention and support.
- Advanced programmable versions of this concept, such as Ethereum, promise to take these ideas to the next level.
- Those who can learn to think as a network will reap the greatest advantages of this shift.
This is the wrong constitution here is the correct one.
>All disputes arising out of or in connection with this Constitution shall be finally settled under the Rules of Dispute Resolution of the EOS Core Arbitration Forum by one or more arbitrators appointed in accordance with the said Rules.
ETH agreement does not use the wording compel but instead uses the word binding. This was Dan Larimer’s wording. I think he understands like most people familiar with the decentralized nature of crypto that in the end you can’t force anything to happen without 51%, 2/3 or community consensus.
https://www.ethereum.org/agreement
> Every award shall be binding on the parties. The parties undertake to carry out the award without delay and waive their right to any form of recourse against the award in so far as such waiver can validly be made.
thanks, no I did not have a source except for the official document to go from.
I've seen different takes on 3d models of the logo by others but none of them were what I thought it should be. So decided to make one.
So it's an erc-20 token that doesn't do anything?
Here are instructions to make your own, why wait for an airdrop when you can generate the same thing and own them all?: https://www.ethereum.org/token
Check out the Ethereum project. It's a decentralised platform that has no downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference. This enables developers to create markets, store registries of debts or promises, move funds in accordance with instructions given long in the past (like a will or a future data release date), all without a middle man or counterparty risk. A true game changer. Although this type of tech will obviously make a lot of people very nervous if you get my drift.
For Ethereum:
> "[...] the tribunal shall apply the laws of Switzerland and any discovery shall be limited and shall not involve any depositions or any other examinations outside of a formal hearing." > > "The place of arbitration shall be Zug, Switzerland."
For the DAO, I don't know.
- 1) Go to https://www.ethereum.org/
- 2) Scroll down to the bottom of the section "what is the ether sale?"
- 3) Enter / paste your ether address in the input field
- 4) Click the "Check balance" button
Ethereum is to computer programs what Bitcoin is to money.
Bitcoin is a consensus-based system for value transmission and value storage. Miners on the system do computational work to gain the privilege of voting to achieve this consensus which determines what happened on the network and in what sequence. Ethereum does the same for generalized computation in distributed applications. Ethereum miners come to a consensus regarding what state transitions occurred in which applications and in what sequence.
So basically Ethereum is a global public ledger that stores the internal state of computer programs in which everybody can see what happened and everyone agrees on what happened (usually after a minute or three).
Too technical?
Edit: adding this from:
https://www.ethereum.org/pdfs/TermsAndConditionsOfTheEthereumGenesisSale.pdf
Section 1 -- What is Ethereum, the Platform?
The Ethereum Platform combines a peer-to-peer networking platform with a next-generation blockchain architecture to deliver a decentralized consensus-based, full-stack platform for developing, offering and using distributed application services. A consumer-facing application, called the EtherBrowser, integrates the front and back ends to create an environment in which developers of varying degrees of sophistication can relatively easily and relatively rapidly build secure, scalable and interoperable decentralized applications.
We have outlined in broad strokes our funding plan here:
https://www.ethereum.org/pdfs/IntendedUseOfRevenue.pdf
More detail can be found here:
https://www.ethereum.org/pdfs/ĐΞVPLAN.pdf
We believe we can put up to $22,500,000 in US dollar equivalent to good use in developing the software, promoting critical research that will enable us to build a system that could possibly serve as a substrate for an alternative online global economy and tool for other social systems, and paying for various other support structures that will bring ethereum to the world and help it gain acceptance. Funds above this threshold will be directed in large proportion to the research body that we have formed (announcements forthcoming) to enable us and others in the crypto-currency space to benefit from research in cryptocurrencies, cryptography, mathematics, economics, law, politics, and possibly other social sciences.
The question the blockchain answered was this: How do you trade digital goods in a trustless environment?
The answer was the blockchain. Funny enough this image about how to create trust is exactly how the blockchain works. So now extrapolate the solution. You can apply the solution to anything that has previously been centralized because a lack of trust existed.
Voting is one example. You needed a centralized ledger of registered voters because there was no way to ensure one person one vote without centralization.
The implementation of these solutions could be on separate blockchains, but ethereum offers a possibility that those solutions could coexist on a single blockchain.
I was signed up to the newsletter from the beginning. I didn't pull the trigger on ICO as at the time there were so many scamy ICOs and I already held some BTC which seemed super risky itself. I later bought ETH (when it was more mainstream) and still hold some today.
Another fun story: a friend gave a USB drive with a single BTC on it as a white elephant gift when BTC was ~$15 The person who ended up with it didn't want it and gave it to their friend.
At the time I just thought the tech was super cool and wanted to support the vision. Even during the first meteoric rise I assumed it would all crash hard (which it did) and potentially end it all (it obviously didn't).
7/22/2014
Ethereum Newsletter Issue #3 - PoC 5 is out, the ether sale starts!
Two very big announcements in this newsletter, the proof of concept 5 binaries are out now, and of course, the anticipated ether sale started today! For instant updates, please don't forget to follow us on Twitter.
The Ether Sale starts.
The ether sale has begun! It takes place exclusively on our website at https://www.ethereum.org/, and nowhere else.
To simplify the dissemination of information, all documentation including the development plan, updated whitepaper and intended use of revenue can be found on our website at https://www.ethereum.org/.
....
Links: https://www.ethereum.org/ether#balance https://etherscan.io/address/0x5ed3f1ebe2ae6756b5d8dc19cad02c419aa5778b
I've tried emailing twice but not heard back (it's been weeks). I tried mailing , but the message delivery failed (address not found).
I did pay to the bitcoin address that I was instructed to (https://blockchain.info/tx/3d4e17efa6c9e1eac81d950deafc9b4abd905694358bbfd39cedcc82336f1ca5). I still have my confirmation printout as well, telling me to send bitcoin to this address.
Any insight / guidance would be appreciated.
>Majority of Bters still believe ETH has an infinite supply, so your observation may prove correct.
How does it not have an infinite supply? It clearly states it in their site. https://www.ethereum.org/ether
"Is the ether supply infinite? No. According to the terms agreed by all parties on the 2014 presale, issuance of ether is capped at 18 million ether per year (this number equals 25% of the initial supply)."
That "No." at the begining is a complete contradiction to what comes after it. It is not yet 100% defined if the supply will be infinite or not.
I feel like the root of any confusion is that searching "buy ether" leads to a page that makes it look very technical, and doesn't offer obvious links to third-party markets:
https://www.ethereum.org/ether
EDIT: Is this worth reconsideration from someone on the team?
What the world needs is for these projects to advance and become consumer-friendly. If you want to advance decentralization, i would advocate doing it on a decentralized platform.
Perhaps you can get a better idea of what they are looking for from this -
https://www.ethereum.org/pdfs/IntendedUseOfRevenue.pdf
It shows what they intend to do based on various levels of funding.
https://www.ethereum.org/ is a good place to learn what ethereum is.
Basically, ether is used to pay for computations on the ethereum blockchain. It's also just a normal currency and can be exchanged like bitcoin or whatever else.
Thanks for making this landing page, appreciate it.
What i am missing is code examples and tutorials like on https://www.ethereum.org - on the FIRST PAGE.
People ask frequently for a starting point making dApps.
We should give them, what they want.
https://www.ethereum.org/ether
"Ether is a necessary element — a fuel — for operating the distributed application platform Ethereum. It is a form of payment made by the clients of the platform to the machines executing the requested operations. To put it another way, ether is the incentive ensuring that developers write quality applications (wasteful code costs more), and that the network remains healthy (people are compensated for their contributed resources)."
If you think the blockchain is neat, you should check out Ethereum, which is trying to build a public, verifiable computing platform on top of the blockchain idea.
No, I don't get it either.
What do you mean by "being paid to do"? As a non-profit that usually isn't the language people use to refer to receiving donations.
EF does not do marketing afaik (beyond their social media presence which is minimal). The EF funds groups and development teams to build some of the tools that are important to the Ethereum ecosystem (provided that the tools are open source and benefit our mission). The EF also funds research teams that produce more written work and intangible benefits, such as academic collaborations. In the past we have also had a grants program to fund important community projects (it is currently not operating). There are other things that the EF does, including putting on Devcon every year and having a presence at some academic events.
I remember the logo literally saying "Powered by Ethereum" lol but I'll dig it up for you.
https://www.ethereum.org/brand
Ethereum Brand Identity Guide PDF: Section 1.8 "Powered by Ethereum"
> This affiliation is strictly reserved to Ethereum Dapps
Apps or technologies that are primarily developed on Ethereum,
and where Ethereum is an integral, majority or key dependency
part of the solution offering or operation, and where there is a
dependency on the single core Ethereum global consensus network.
You must be approved by Ethereum to be on that list, and you must
hyperlink the signature logo to www.ethereum.org where we will
maintain the official list of organizations and projects that are
approved to use such logo.
Reading the first page of the Ethereum website it talks about building unstoppable applications.
> Ethereum is a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference.
And they also explain a use case where you don't need to trust anyone in order to kickstart a project with a trustless crowdsale:
> Using Ethereum, you can create a contract that will hold a contributor's money until any given date or goal is reached. Depending on the outcome, the funds will either be released to the project owners or safely returned back to the contributors. All of this is possible without requiring a centralized arbitrator, clearing house or having to trust anyone.
I trusted and contributed resources to help this become reality but unfortunately EF decided to throw that out of the window. Should I still trust them? Should I not trust Bitcoin because of Satoshi?
History has proven that we need to trust based on merit.
I like the retro style. But please don't take any offense if I say, I like the official branding style much more. Check this: https://www.ethereum.org/images/logos/Ethereum_Visual_Identity_1.0.0.pdf
Very interesting concept. In the cryptocurrency community there is a thing called Proof of Burn where you prove that you've spent coins to unspendable addresses. This shows a monetary commitment without actually paying anyone specifically.
More broadly, smart contracts can achieve this precommitment function extremely generally, such as "send one dollar to bob that is only spendable on bread." Scripts enforce the spendability of the token inside the network. Ethereum is an attempt at a Turing complete scripting language for smart contracts.
My favorite example of a dead man's switch precommitment in fiction is in Snow Crash where [spoiler](#s "one of the characters has a fusion bomb that will go off if he dies").
> I wonder if Vitalik would be willing to disclose how many people this includes and/or who they are?
86 people. The list of people on this old version of our webpage correlates fairly well with the highest recipients of the endowment, though not completely; eg. Ralph Merkle didn't get any ether and neither did a few other people on there, and there are plenty of people not on that page who got only a small amount for one-off contributions.
I doubt the total supply of bitcoin will ever increase, since that is one of the core features the entire community agrees on - plus I can't imagine any bitcoiner agreeing to have their money lose value due to increasing the supply.
There is a new cryptocurrency (or a crypto platform I should say) that will be coming out next year called ethereum that doesn't have a finite supply. Instead of having the supply increase by a fixed percentage every year, the supply increases by a fixed amount of coin. So the inflation rate declines year to year without hitting zero. So instead of being deflationary as in gold or bitcoin, ethereum will be dis-inflationary.
https://www.ethereum.org/ and whitepaper here: https://ethereum.org/pdfs/EthereumWhitePaper.pdf
This is hilarious. Every positive news item about Ethereum is being removed by mods. But somehow this goes through? At least be consistent in your modding.
Please read the dev plan, the roadmap and the use of revenue and adjust your false claims. This money isn't going straight into 'the founders pockets'.
>They would be if we didn't have a host of methods for doing everything cryptos do, except faster and better. Numbered bank accounts, pre-paid debt cards, and good old fashioned cash provide superior anonymity.
A few things. One, bitcoin is still superior than cash in anonymity; you don't even have to be physically there to make the exchange. Two, the infrastructure is already in place for the banks so there is a much larger uphill battle for Bitcoin to do all those things you mentioned, but it has the potential to do them even faster and better. Third, if you would, take 5 minutes and watch this video on Ethereum as an example how the Bitcoin architecture (not the currency) could be used as an entire market itself. For more information, check out their 'what' section on their page
>Cryptos can't even get the "no inflation" thing right. We've seen cryptocurrencies explode over the last five years.
These are mutually exclusive of each other. Inflation (ie, increase in the money supply) of one CC has nothing to do with the increase in the money supply (inflation) with another CC.
> But their Lite/Doge/etc peers are everywhere.
Yeah, and they drop like flies all the time because they are useless. This is a new, thriving market, there are going to be thousands of shitty altcoins.
It really isn't. If you'd like, you can make your own smart contract now on one of ethereum's many testnets or the mainnet, using ether to purchase gas. Here's a guide to get you started: https://www.ethereum.org/greeter
Sounds interesting!
Currently considering creating a decentralized, trustless application for the Cannabis industry built on Ethereum.
I could make such a blacklist a first use case that we test out!
If you're looking for a real world example of what Richard is working on, check out the Ethereum Project. It's a p2p decentralized network based on a public blockchain. It aims to be the infrastructure for a system of apps that are based on trustless smart contracts.
r/ethereum
You should look at Ethereum.
It has a built in scripting language similar to Javascript called Solidity, which can be used to create your own basic currency and more advanced smart contracts.
This is a currency you can customize among an exploding ecosystem of new distributed applications, or dapps, that have collectively funded millions of Dollars in funding.
Ethereum also boasts now #2 market cap of all cryptocurrencies, has the ear of major tech giants, and has the best developers in the space. I think this is a good bet for the future and as a programmer to be familiar with.
Bitcoin has a finite supply of 21 coins.
ETH is more complicated and is quite fishy about their answer too:
>Is the ether supply infinite?
No. According to the terms agreed by all parties on the 2014 presale, issuance of ether is capped at 18 million ether per year (this number equals 25% of the initial supply). This means that while the absolute issuance is fixed, the relative inflation is decreased every year. In theory if this issuance was kept indefinitely then at some point the rate of new tokens created every year would reach the average amount lost yearly (by misuse, accidental key lost, death of holders etc) and there would reach an equilibrium.
But the rate is not expected to be kept: sometime in 2017 Ethereum will be switched from Proof of Work to a new consensus algorithm under development, called Casper that is expected to be more efficient and require less mining subsidy. The exact method of issuance and which function it will serve is an area of active research, but what can be guaranteed now is that (1) the current maximum is considered a ceiling and the new issuance under casper will not exceed it (and is expected to be much less) and (2) whatever method is ultimately picked to issue, it will be a decentralized smart contract that will not give preferential treatment to any particular group of people and whose purpose is to benefit the overall health and security of the network.
So how many coins will ETH end up having? No one knows.
>Ethereum would never be possible without bitcoin—both the technology and the currency—and we see ourselves not as a competing currency but as complementary within the digital ecosystem. Ether is to be treated as "crypto-fuel", a token whose purpose is to pay for computation, and is not intended to be used as or considered a currency, asset, share or anything else.
I. Investment planning for the hard fork - post your input regarding a possible hardfork in Bitcoinland here.
II. If you have recently made some good money trading, don't forget the FoundationTipJar and make sure to enjoy some of those profits properly! If you lost some or not made as much as you'd hoped, don't forget it's just money, there will be plenty of other opportunities in your life. Never give up.
I love that there are arguments, but after looking through both sides I am exactly on the fence about this.
There is no right answer here...
For example argument 2; The purpose of Ethereum as opposed to Bitcoin was that ethereum was fuel for a world computer that could run programs that are unstoppable.
it's right there on the front page as the first major thing about ethereum. if we wanted our money to be safe we would've went with a fiat bank or maybe BTC. Ethereum promised something more than just safety. That promise is what's being threatened here.
That said I'm not against a soft fork or hard fork. I think all our options are viable, and possibly equally good. The miners will decide.
The danger though is that they might actually be buyable.
Anyone who thought dogecoin was more than just a meme, which in their nature fade in popularity, was always in for a bad time.
With things like Augur launching on top of Ethereum which is bringing actual innovation backed teams of developers dedicated to it I would guess a lot of alt coins will drop in value.
Currency is the most obvious application. Ethereum is a more aspirational technology that will allow developers to create applications that interact with blockchains. Their homepage outlines a few potential use cases:
In a nutshell, it makes it possible to create "smart contracts" that allow you to write programs that interact with the virtual currency. Like imagine an insurance pool where there wasn't a insurance company managing it, but a program instead. At it's highest levels it's possible to program functioning organizations that no one specifically controls, and because it's code it does exactly what it's programmed to do, and the blockchain proves it.
Ethereum looks pretty interesting.
It also has actual projects on it.
For most people in the tech field, blockchains are just an interesting system. Investors get all fired up because its new thing that might make them richer, but techies get fired up because maybe in the next 10 years they might have a new way of doing some thing that they want to do.
I kind of agree though, I've seen some very cult-like behavior by some "enthusiasts", and a lot of the people who rave about it don't know shit about how it actually works.
No but if you look into the branding guide, they suggest how to design location-specific logos on page 15. It works best with flags which contain 2 or 3 colors, like 95%+ do. I have to admit the Chinese version above is very creative.
Actually, forks are pretty much harmless for long-term holders. When a fork like the ETH/ETC one happens the coins get duplicated on both branches of the fork. If you'd bought 100ETH pre-DAO-fork, then after the fork you'd have 100ETH and 100ETC. You could then continue holding on to both sets of coins and if one of the two forks winds up collapsing in value, oh well. You still have 100 coins on the "winning" fork. The only problem comes if the combined value of the two forks goes down, but that's just one of the risks inherent in speculating on cryptocurrency.
If your main goal is just "support the project" and not so much "make a bunch of money betting on the project's success" then you could just donate some money directly to the Ethereum foundation. :)
It's a way of cutting out a lot of middle man work. http://www.fintech.finance/featured/blockchain-5-key-concepts/ to lazy right now to go into further detail. But look at the ethereum blockchain project. https://www.ethereum.org/ This is the kind of stuff the bank wants to get into.
I agree.
The contract allowed what happened. It was/is a bug in the DAO code. If the code of a contract is faulty, and you enter into the contract anyway, you are at least partially to blame. The contract did not work as intended, but it totally did work as it was written. Problem is, with smart contracts, intent should no longer be important at all. The contract is the law. If you re-introduce a human element later, this invalidates the whole purpose of a smart contract.
The mission statement for Ethereum itself https://www.ethereum.org/ :
> applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference.
The terms of the DAO itself https://daohub.org/explainer.html :
> The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The DAO’s code.
If we change the rules now, ETH does no longer hold any value long term. A fork, soft or hard, would invalidate ETH as a smart contract platform, and would lead to a run for the exit the likes you haven't seen before. It would just lose it's whole purpose.
Intent may still matter in the justice system. I have no problem with trying to get the guy and getting him in a court of law. I'm not saying what he did was exactly "legal". But trying to correct the wrong with human intervention inside a system advertizing itself as being free from it would be fatal for the whole platform.
I'd suggest combining national ID cards with dual key cryptography and block chain technology. (aka "bit coin") See: Ehterium for a good idea of what the future of democracy is going to look like.
I have friends in banking, and pretty much every big bank is looking at ethereum as a way to make crypto work for them. Banks are genuinely terrified of blockchains sweeping them.
There's already been a trend of online-only banks popping up that can run far more lean than the big banks with huge capital sunk into physical space and front desk employees for each branch. They're starting to lose their grip over financial services as these smaller competitors keep finding new angles to take more from them. Pair that with a decentralized currency and P2P lending markets and you're recreating their bread and butter; ie: control of the money supply and control of the credit markets.
I've long said that Bitcoin will be the Napster of cryptocurrencies. It will fail in the end, but it will completely change the industry around it as a result of proving a new model.
First, thanks for the info. I'll definitely consider your offer. I've basic cryptography knowledge. My background Is technical and have strong programming skills. But I want to get a deep knowledge and understanding about crypto currencies and more specifically the blockchain and what opportunities it opens in spaces so unrelated such as IoT and smart contracts. Ethereum https://www.ethereum.org/ has good doc but sometimes difficult to follow and assuming background knowledge. But aside from the implementation details, that I consider a must, I want to dig into the possibilities.
A link for the lazy on how to download and use Eth the C++ client that is unaffected by this issue:
It has many advantages and can be much quicker especially when syncing with the blockchain.
It would be clearer if, somewhere in the first paragraphs, it made a disclaimer like "Ethereum isn't safe yet, etc etc", giving context to the previous use of the word "safe" near the logo. "Frontier is the first release of the Ethereum project, tailored specifically for developers." doesn't really convey this.
Or drop that crossed "safe" altogether.
(Fortunately this ends up being a very clear warning - but note it doesn't actually use the word safe anywhere)
Interesting. I also looked at http://etherex.org/ , built on https://www.ethereum.org/. My brain is churning, too, to try to create ways to solve a lot of this. But many people much smarter than me have been at it for much longer. It's like mining: they've been working hard to solve blocks, and I'm solo mining in my brain to figure this out. :P
We've looked into creating ETH apparel, however, we still have not heard back from the Ethereum Foundation yet unfortunately.
We've utilized the contact information provided here: https://www.ethereum.org/brand, but have had no success with contacting them.
You don't have to start from scratch. Check out these links and also Github. Hope you find what you're looking for https://medium.com/crypto-currently/build-your-first-smart-contract-fc36a8ff50ca https://www.ethereum.org/greeter
> All current Ethereum logos are under Creative Commons attribution 3.0.
> Guidelines for Third Parties Using Ethereum Trademarks
> We are revising those guidelines in order to have a more open approach towards the use of the Ethereum logo that is more community-friendly and supports the greater Ethereum and crypto innovation ecosystem. The current branding guidelines will be updated to reflect a policy that all current Ethereum logos are under Creative Commons attribution 3.0.
> The Ethereum Foundation may be releasing a special seal for use by approved people or entities for foundation specific advocacy, fundraising, and mission-related efforts; more details will be announced.
> Contact Information
> If you have any questions or clarifications pertaining to these guidelines, please email us at .
As others have said, gdax (owned by coinbase, but NOT coinbase - coinbase will charge you a high rate of commission) is a good way to go, but they only accept dollars or euros, so for such a low amount, unless you can get free SEPA transfers and low euro conversion rates (e.g. using a method already discussed in this thread), unfortunately a UK broker is the best way to go; and they do have fees. A reliable UK one (where you'll pay about a 2% commission) is bittylicious - so for £250 you'll be paying about £5 - although if you buy through gdax you'll pay a fee of about £2 to get it off the exchange; with GBP to EUR conversion rates factored in, even assuming free SEPA transfers, you're probably not saving much (if anything) going that route.
Anyway, once you buy bitcoin you'll want to keep it in a wallet (for security), not in an exchange. For your purposes, your best bet is electrum for Bitcoin. For Ethereum, it has an official wallet here.
If I were you I'd probably buy £200 in Bitcoin and £50 in Ethereum, (if going the coinbase route, you can buy all in Bitcoin and then trade £50/worth into Ethereum) but the actual decision is up to you.
This looks like a super obvious scam.
Like, why is the url "tokenswap" yet all the information looks copied and pasted from an Ethereum website?
Why does it say it's happening "in the next 24 hours" but not give a date or a time?
DEFINITELY a scam. They just put the bit about token swapping at the top of a copied version of ethereum.org (found by copy/pasting a paragraph down the page into google w/ quotes)
I copied this from: https://www.ethereum.org/ether
Is the ether supply infinite?
No. According to the terms agreed by all parties on the 2014 presale, issuance of ether is capped at 18 million ether per year (this number equals 25% of the initial supply). This means that while the absolute issuance is fixed, the relative inflation is decreased every year. In theory if this issuance was kept indefinitely then at some point the rate of new tokens created every year would reach the average amount lost yearly (by misuse, accidental key lost, death of holders etc) and there would reach an equilibrium.
But the rate is not expected to be kept: sometime in 2017 Ethereum will be switched from Proof of Work to a new consensus algorithm under development, called Casper that is expected to be more efficient and require less mining subsidy. The exact method of issuance and which function it will serve is an area of active research, but what can be guaranteed now is that (1) the current maximum is considered a ceiling and the new issuance under casper will not exceed it (and is expected to be much less) and (2) whatever method is ultimately picked to issue, it will be a decentralized smart contract that will not give preferential treatment to any particular group of people and whose purpose is to benefit the overall health and security of the network.
I dunno I think we need a major change to be honest. It's pretty cumbersome to update now also. I'd much more prefer to do a complete rewrite and go the CMS route.
We can always add localised languages again later.
Here's a couple of crypto websites that i think look good and professional:
We could also go the more blue ocean route and make something really special that really sets us apart from other crypto websites. But that is harder and would require more time.
Google translate uses Artificial intelligent that always 'learns' how to translate better. As for now, the open source community of the world doesn't have a chance against their machines..
We would have a chance, if we had built software that is distributed and decentralized, perhaps on a block chain platform that enabling enhancemeant of the translation continuously, perhaps with ethereum and thus biting Google Translate.
Maby one day...
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned blockchain technology in analyzing the paperwork problem with the current welfare scheme. For example Ethereum Virtual Machine will automate the use of smart contracts removing third party middle men such as the government. Here is Ethereum. This is all very exciting and new stuff. I feel we should let block chain technology play-out a bit more before we take drastic steps towards UBI.
I'm a bit confused by this, too. And it is also unclear if ether and ethereum are the same thing...? On the ethereum faq about ether it says: 'Ether is to be treated as "crypto-fuel," a token whose purpose is to pay for computation, and is not intended to be used as or considered a currency, asset, share or anything else.' But it certainly seems like it's being considered a currency. https://www.ethereum.org/ether
- Yes. Here is a tutorial to get you started: https://www.ethereum.org/token
- The miners verify the Ethereum blockchain and your token simply uses the existing infrastructure.
- Miners use peer-to-peer communications to share new blocks
That programmable model for future governments already exists in its fetus stage.
https://www.ethereum.org/dao
I think governments will have to start incorporating blockchain technology into themselves in the near future.
To me, "The Internet" is more of an abstract concept or industry term. A conscious AI would certainly use the internet as a primary source of information, or the components that make up the AI could all be contained within the internet in some fashion, which might be closer to what you mean. The blockchain technology Ethereum has touched on some of the ideas of "code" (living contracts) running on a public blockchain, essentially running within the internet, instead of in a centralized fashion. These kinds of public and potentially unstoppable processes (cryptocurrencies and other blockchain technologies) leave an open door to an AI off its leash, a botnet on steroids, computing collectively in hivemind fashion.
From the Ethereum Agreement
> Any successful attacks present a risk to the Ethereum Platform, expected proper execution and sequencing of ETH transactions, and expected proper execution and sequencing of contract computations.
If I read that correctly, if a contract is wrong and the transaction is right... too bad for you.
Thanks. That's deeper than what I gleaned in the 90secs I gave their site (which is probably more than most folks will give it).
Not sure how that is better or different from say ethereum.
https://www.ethereum.org/ether (search for "SENDING YOUR FIRST TRANSACTION")
You will need to have a client, such as geth, installed.
Note that the amount is specified in wei, not ether. You need to convert before sending.
As far as I know this is only possible with more scripting support than what is currently enabled in Bitcoin. Other projects like for example Ethereum are trying to solve this.
Hay gente que está desarrollando plataformas para descentralizar las transacciones por ejemplo Ethereum.
Esta compañía esta siendo desarrollada en Europa.
Los/las economistas como el referido por Juan Torres en su artículo no se quieren enterar, allá ellos. Los que sí están al tanto de estas nuevas formas de gestión son "los mercados"(inversores capitalistas).
Barcelona en Comú quiere crear una moneda propia para Barcelona, pues muy bien, con esta idea están apostando por el futuro, están en sintonía con las nuevas maneras de gestión y además hablarán de tú a tú con "los mercados", porque estarán utilizando el mismo lenguaje.
Los agoreros tendrán su recorrido mientras sean útiles para vocear el pánico, una vez que cambien las tornas, ya los veremos intentando reciclarse y asistiremos a ciclos esperpénticos, que son tan naturales en este país.
Nosotros, la gente normal con calma y atención, conseguiremos que nuestra sociedad cambie para mejor y desligarnos de las opiniones de los medios de comunicación para poder mirarlos como lo que son, un puro espejismo.
https://www.ethereum.org/pdf/IntendedUseOfRevenue.pdf
They've burned through ca. 30-50% of that by keeping the money in BTC, not converting to fiat. Which is quite staggering in itself, i.e. they decided to speculate on Bitcoin's price with the 15M.
Here is the bitcoin address: https://blockchain.info/address/36PrZ1KHYMpqSyAQXSG8VwbUiq2EogxLo2