What is Reddit's opinion of
Jami?
From 3.5 billion Reddit comments
➔ Jami website
By popularity on Reddit, this Service is:
68 reviews of this app found across Reddit:
>But I don't know any better way to stay in touch with such a wide range of friends and family
I encouraged the people I really care to stay in touch with, to add me on Signal.
Now I'm having to convince them one by one to move to Jami, of course...
A few thoughts:
- "Crimes" between consenting adults are not true crimes. Governments only weaken their legitimacy by creating and prosecuting them.
- I hope he's learning about all the cool tech improvements that have happened in the last decade: Whonix on Qubes, Jami, etc
- Important safety tip: SHUM!
Absolutely none of the people in r/privacy are actual privacy fanatics. All the privacy fanatics are already on their own, actually private platforms which makes access to their info less accessible.
I'm making this account just for this thread, and I will delete it after, just wanted to give some advice.
All chat-services collect metadata, thus we must avoid centralized chat services at all cost.
Matrix chat, what the people here at r/privacy would say is the peak of privacy, is anything but. They collect metadata through the nose, and, even worse, the servers are so high-maintenance (because the protocol sucks) that 95% of users just use the centralized matrix homeserver.
<strong>Jami</strong> is a peer-to-peer chat service, I highly recommend this one. This is about as private as it gets, yet remaining normie-friendly. It's a little inconsistent when video-chatting, however works just perfect as a signal alternative. USE THIS ONE
Xmpp, is truely one of the best, most private chat protocols you can use, there is no main server, and millions of tiny servers. This one is amazing, however it requires only the full privacy advocates, who understand technology to use. You *should* set up your own server to get the full privacy benifits. This is the one I use, and the hardest one to get into.
Irc, the one true chat protocol, irc is tiny, can run on anything, and is by-default ephemeral. I use this one a lot as well, however its nice to have some of the features from xmpp when doing things like DM's.
The recent signal update broke axolotl :( It's unfortunate they decided to reimplement the protocol instead of copy pasting from the official repo. I'm having my secure messaging group switch to Jami.
I think everyone in the group text can see the numbers in the group, but they dont necessarily have to know who is who i guess. something like telegram would be perfect for this imo, but that requires downloading an app. signal and telegram can act like your normal sms messaging service, tied to your phone number, or used on the web.
I think the best messaging app is Jami, you dont need to provide any data to use it, you can just use it and it generates an ID for you (no email, number for an account, but tied to the device instance), but again it needs an app(phones and computers are supported!). It is completely anonymous, open source and has end to end encryption by default. Also its peer-to-peer so no server is holding your messaging data. Otherwise its like discord, slack, fb messenger. Pretty feature packed.
A lot of people still use Skype, especially in the business, Legal, & Medical landscapes.
I recommend Jami instead of Skype. It's FOSS, p2p, and not owned by any big company.
Also, DuckDuckGo was bought out so they're not really trust worthy. Go with Searx.xyz.
I'm not on cellular, only wifi.
On the jami.net website it says "All communications are peer-to-peer and end-to-end encrypted.". But if there is a lag, then the messages are stored somewhere. Where are they stored? And why does it say peer-to-peer if there is a middle man?
Jami is purely P2P as long as you don’t register your username with their blockchain (optional). It’s on all the major platforms AFAIK.
It’s recommended that you have another computer that is always up (like a home desktop) to receive the messages in case your phone is offline or has inconsistent connection. To my knowledge there is no central server that will relay or maintain a cache of your messages.
Relevant link: https://jami.net
>Seems like it's time to switch to Signal.
While Signal works well and you absolutely should use it, please consider also using/testing/supporting truly decentralized communication software such as Jami that passes messages over DHT.
Signal right now is good, and end-to-end encryption means they can't read your messages even if they turn evil. But centralization always leaves the door open for the future.
Full peer-to-peer decentralization is the last, best weapon against censorship technologically available right now.
As far as I understand from my use.:
1-to-1 conversation is implemented a trivial case of Swarm with just two members. Before swarm, messages were not synchronized between multiple devices of the same user; swarm apparently solves this. It also synchronizes message history between the two users, in case one user has a new installation or device.
Messages are stored locally on users' devices. If both (or all, in case of more than two members) there is no source to synchronize that message would be lost.
More details are in the Jami blog: Swarm: a new generation of group conversations
How can I make a conference call?
Start a video or audio call with a contact. Click on the "Add participant" button. Select the participant to be added to the conference. Your device is now hosting the conference.
Any such messaging will (a) add bloat to the network, and (b) add attack surface for deanon.
IMO, it doesn't make sense for a message service (especially a privacy-centric one) to maintain a permanent immutable ledger. Rather, I'd want messages to be ephemeral, leaving no traces on the network after delivery.
Among the private messaging systems, I'm most intrigued by the FSF's Jami project. GPL'd code, messaging, conferencing, screen sharing, E2E encryption, private.
I just remembered Jami. It does use local P2P to chat, but adds you to a global DHT if it can reach the default opendht nodes. You can probably disable that.
https://jami.net/automatic-peer-discovery-on-local-networks/
Nothing prevents you from using multiple XMPP accounts at the same time. Unlike other apps, XMPP clients support multiaccount as a first class thing.
Nothing prevents you to talking to people via a different server if you choose to. Everything is fully federated.
Nothing prevents you from using XMPP over Tor: https://gist.github.com/dllud/a46d4a555e31dfeff6ad41dcf20729ac
Nothing truely is peer-to-peer, Jami is an example of a P2P app and even it uses bootstrap nodes to start up: https://jami.net/why-is-jami-truly-distributed/ - it would not surprise me if Status/Session did the same. For instance if all of Session's service nodes went down because of some misconfiguration somewhere: https://getsession.org/faq
As for trust, I prefer to use things I run on my own hardware, rather than rely on on weak third parties I know nothing about.
Jami works in a P2P manner, and is able to send/forward messages and history between users, online and offline. It uses swarms, though, and has some sort of server component (not sure how much work this does). Swarms probably work something like torrenting, with Alice and Bob's encrypted conversation, or even Bob's DMs to Emma, being held by nearby IPs (i.e. Nicole, and a bunch of randos), and forwarded to Emma when she reconnects.
A friend of mine has a bot project that runs on a raspberry pi and receives and forwards messages on his behalf, giving him pseudo-offline messaging capabilities.
Such capabilities will probably come after multiple-devices-per-account, as Tox seems to care about who can hold the encrypted message data for forwarding (e.g. you don't want Hackerman McHackerface to built a special bot that dumps encrypted conversation data he receives for forwarding for mining through later; this is a possible risk with Jami).
I think the solution for Tox is 1) multi-device accounts. 2) a simple routing server mode for the Tox client, so you can install tox on an RPi or always-online machine and use it purely for blindly forwarding conversations for you. These could also be integrated into the DHT or custom DHT lists (currently, Tox depends on a handful of often-hardcoded "initial connection" servers, which aren't easy to run yourself, or easy to add to clients if you do run one yourself) 3) A way of marking devices/contacts as "trusted" to route conversation data for you. Your own devices, using the same account, are automatically "trusted" to forward conversation data whenever they're online. Trusting other people's devices could be automatic, e.g. when you accept someone's "friend request", that marks them as "trusted" to forward your encrypted messaging data (even to other people).
Messaging could be done securely. See https://jami.net/ Though note that it is still a bit buggy but it is moving in the right direction.
Secure email - https://protonmail.com/
The emails can be grabbed on the recipient side though (like if you send something to a gmail address) because people were communicating since the 60s/70s and the original email protocol was designed in 1980/81 with improvements added in 95, 98 and 99. Basically i is an evolution that took place mostly in the time when spam and phishing were no rampant and hat was before 9/11 and the Patriot act.
Eventually someone hopefully will create a new standard for secure mail. For now proton to proton is probably the best one can do.
Funnily enough, there is a BitTorrent like chat platform called GNU Jami. It passes e2e encrypted messages across a DHT. It doesn’t currently support group chats, but they’re apparently being implemented with git.
It won’t ever be suitable for a project channel though, that’s not really what it’s for.
Jami seems to be a good alternative for a chat app. It is a distributed application, peer to peer, no central server is used.
- Encrypted and complying with X.509 standard
- 100% open source Gnu Project under GPLv3 license
- No registration or account is needed, just create your own id.
Voice and video are also available with the same level of privacy
I got the answer from the official blog: turn.jami.net is the server provided by the Jami project, and it is the TURN server enabled by Jami by default.
When it is not possible to connect directly, a TURN transfer is required.
When communicating via TURN, the chat partner does not know your IP.
Currently Jami does not provide the function of compulsory use of TURN, which also violates the principle of distributed design. Jami rejects the relay structure.
At this point, if you care about privacy you're already migrating to an alternative that doesn't require a phone number.
Personally I've moved to Jami. Decentralized, P2P serverless(!), truly open source, no phone numbers needed, and the price is... free
While XMR integration over the Element app for Matrix would be possible (just submit a PR!); I’m more partial to Jami (https://jami.net) for DMs and payments. Fully-decentralized, serverless relay, perfect forward secrecy E2EE, and just like Matrix it’s open API + source if one were to add XMR integration. :)
I am researching three. Haven't made a decision yet. Technically I think Jami is the most solid.
- Session
Pro: open source, decentralized, compatible, no phone#, free-as-in-beer
Con: needlessly uses a scammy cryptocoin $OXEN - Threema
Pro: open source, decentralized, no phone#, solid company driving development
Con: not Signal-compatible, costs $3 on app store - Jami
Pro: open source, decentralized, no phone#, free-as-in-beer, Gnu
Con: not Signal-compatible, still missing some features
Changing platforms is a PITA and something to be done as infrequently as possible.
Give me 2-3 weeks to properly research alternatives. So far Jami is looking best. Totally Libre and free-as-in-beer, and fully decentralized -- no servers!
Hi, I don't know if I'm late or not. But I also got no one to talk too and want to try Jami.
Contact me using 'Redwine' on the Jami distributed communication platform: https://jami.net
I promise you I will reply, we can talk about anything lol
> What protocol does Jami use for the end-to-end encryption?
> We use TLS 1.3 with a perfect forward secrecy requirement for the negotiated ciphers for calls and file transfers. Messages are encrypted with an RSA key.
Thanks for the update /u/keejef!
The jami developers are building a P2P app based on git:
https://jami.net/swarm-introducing-a-new-generation-of-group-conversations/
Perhaps Session and Jami developers could work together to build a common spec, so the two networks could interoperate?
Yeah those work, but basically any time you pull it out to make a phone call you'll be triangulated depending on how close you are to at least three cell towers to an area within 2 km^(2), and that's without connecting to anything. GPS can do things, but that signal doesn't come from your phone, it comes from satellites, and you just embed it into metadata whenever you take a picture (unless that's off), or if an app makes a location request (which is restricted by the OS, but people allow location access to a lot of apps by default for some reason). If you really want to avoid detection, use a burner phone bought with cash, only load very specific apps for communication (like Signal or Jami) and don't give it location data, and use a paid VPN (bought via a more anonymous cryptocurrency than bitcoin), through a country with very in-depth privacy laws (like Canada or Germany).
It's hard to tell when or if the almighty ban hammer will strike, I'm active in a couple of communities too and just wait for the day when they are suddenly gone. Be oldschool, get the mail addresses of people you need to keep connected to. Only if you know and trust each other of course.
I've been looking for alternatives to Discord too, and so far Jami is looking good. It's open source and peer to peer, without any servers or middlemen, works on many operating systems and devices. You don't even need a mail account or phone number to create an account. It's all locally stored on your device. This has it's own problems of course, because you can't write to someone who isn't online right now. They have improved to software last month to make it more suitable for group chats. I haven't used this feature yet, just wrote to another person so far, but it might be interesting for you if you want to look into it and try it out.
Ciao, riesci a spiegare meglio cosa intendi? Jami è un'applicazione che si può scaricare su tutte le piattaforme.
Se devi utilizzarla su PC Windows devi scaricarla da qui: https://jami.net/download-jami-windows/
È un .msi che dovrai eseguire e ti installerà poi un classico programma.
È un'applicazione molto utilizzata e abbastanza famosa :)
It looks like I need a synapse server + a client, e.g. Element (former riot).
While looking through the setup, i noticed that I have to host e.g. the sent media in a normal directory on my server. Is there an app that keeps data on the intended recipients device? More like p2p, perhaps Jami: https://jami.net/? The "element" client has a free trial, but is it actually free afterwards? Thanks
Does mattermost / rocketchat have the same functionality? Mattermost seems free and looks good, same for rocketchat. Looks actually easier to set up.
Download the APK from the signal website if your reluctant to use play store.
Never had the number as the username, have you got the right contact details saved in your contacts app?
Tbh you will be hard pressed to find a better alternative.
You could try Jami https://jami.net/
Or linphone: https://www.linphone.org/
>A dumbphone is not a solution since every call/massage is not encrypted
Fine, but who can give you the 100% guarantee that the software, or the encryption algorithm itself isn't backdoored or that the AI + Quantum Computers can't already decrypt all encrypted messages? When you communicate via a dumbphone, at least you know they're listening and so you just say whatever you feel comfortable saying. And let's not forget that we can still have "encrypted communication" via a computer. We can also use Jami.net (for example) from a computer to call someone who's using Jami on an android phone.
>and it's still pinging a tower for the signal
just like all the other phones :)
#2
>You can now make audio and video calls with multiple people on Jami. This feature has been available on GNU/Linux for a while, but it is now functional on all platforms. You will notice a new button during your calls that allows you to easily add new participants. Because Jami doesn’t rely on servers, the conference is hosted by the device of the person who initiates it. It mixes the audio and video feed from all participant and sends it back to them so everyone can see and hear each other. For this reason, the maximum number of participants depends on the hosting device’s computing power and available bandwidth. We have tested with up to sixteen members but it could potentially go higher.
> Source: certified security professional still using Zoom just fine.
^ PrivacytoolsIO certified reply.
Seriously, there are alternatives and Zoom is not acceptable in terms of privacy. Same goes for Skype and Facetime. I'd say that if you have no other choice and the communication needs are really important (isolation is not easy), then yes, do it, but otherwise: NOPE.
Try Matrix, Jami. If you can, it's possible to install your own Jitsi-meet server, it's relatively easy (it's a sysadmin type task, but easy).
The only point I agree with you on is that Zoom is in the spotlight just because it's the most used and have seen a lot of market growth recently.
Sorry I didn't read your post, but have you tried this option? https://jami.net/download-jami-linux/#open-modal-linux-mint-19-64-bit
the main site does not mention what jami is.
'share, freely and privately.'
what about mentioning what it does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jami_(software) has more details than your own website.
below you have images with some strange animation but no further details. I.e. conferences, would love to know how many people can be in a conference, if there are moderation options. breakout rooms etc or if you use conference more for a group chat of 4 people. or Messaging, how does it compare to irc/signal/matrix/mattermost
you have many broken links on the site. i.e. the footer has Customization -> https://jami.net/business-customization/ - Oops!
(I didn't know what Jami was, so here you go. They have conference calls to)
Jami (formerly Ring and SFLphone) is a free distributed multimedia communication software. It is developed by Savoir-faire Linux with the help of a global community of users and contributors. Savoir-faire Linux is a Canadian company specialized in Linux and free software.
Jami allows to make audio or video calls, and to send messages, safely and freely, in confidence. Jami is a Free and open source software that requires no central server.
What can you do with Jami:
send text messages
make audio calls
make video calls
send files
use your existing SIP account
There are plenty of ways to help us, check out: <a href="https://jami.net/contribute"></a>.
Jami is inspired by a Swahili word that means "community".
You can also install Jami on Windows, macOS, iOS and GNU/Linux.
Not a fan of the wire purchase to US company. May not be a big deal yet but usually with sales like that the product doesn't stay in the original privacy state.
I'm not sure how jitsi was to install 2 years ago but it does seem a bit better these days. They do have a docker, https://github.com/jitsi/docker-jitsi-meet#jitsi-meet-on-docker
Someone else also told me about https://jami.net when i posted this to /r/corpfree. I haven't yet tested so I can't comment on setup or how well it works but it is e2e encrypted.
Jami.net is what you want. It will give you Video conferencing, Audio with and without Video, Message chat, and Screen Sharing. And it will do those things at the same time if you choose, using picture-in-picture.
It will work anywhere over the internet. But it will also work on a local network even without an internet connection!
Bonus - it's also Opensource so it's Free of charge to use and also Freely licenced, so there are no privacy or data compromise issues.
There are Free downloads for Linux, Apple Macintosh, Windows, iPhone, iPad, Android phones and tablets, and Android TV.
Jami https://jami.net or Riot https://riot.im/
I'd suggest you try Jami out. Donwload and run Jami on 2/3 devices. Copy the username to add to contacts and start a group video call.
Try it out before you suggest it, you don't want people thinking FOSS or privacy friendly software has to suck or video calling can only run on Zoom as many universities businesses think so. I'm sure they'll appreciate your move in improving your group's privacy.
As for businesses, Zoom is likely liable to them they'd take extra care of their data. They don't need to sell it, but when you're their free customer they are more likely to sell your data.
Don't know about VoIP providers. Just understand that concerning VoIP providers despite their privacy claims, you will be bound to their privacy policies and terms of use/service. Also, I don't think it will be encrypted in the sense of being end-to-end encrypted since that functioning is the app's job, sort of speak. So, the question should be if there is any app that supports or does E2EE. There is one app that supports SIP, that is Jami, though they stated in the FAQ:
>With a SIP account, security is not guaranteed by default. It depends on the SIP servers used. In order for your data to be encrypted, you must enter the security information associated with your SIP account. Indicate them in the Security sub-tab. During your exchanges, your correspondent must also have the same security options for them to be applied.
You can as well use Jami without SIP account.
This may be relevant to you from r/GrapheneOS: [Apps tested and known to work on GrapheneOS].
It is an interesting project, but with limited capabilities: missing mobile app and group, not actively developed. It is a research project. If you like fully private project, take a look at pung.
Moreover, session is e2e encrypted and a step ahead in term of each aspect reported here.
If you want to use a peer-to-peer e2e encrypted client, take a look at jami.
Don't know how you install it, but with the official packages from https://jami.net "jami" start jami.
​
On very very old versions (during the name transition), "ring" was the name. But as I say, it's some very old versions
Concerning Cwtch, it's often updated and they have a developer/community type of group where you can report some issues in the chat. They have an Android apk as well.
XMPP maybe can be added as well, Jami, OnionShare...
Some of them are pretty active despite no apparent user growth and some projects may have few developers but they usually have many contributors... I've written to Ricochet Refresh but it seems that they need developers to contribute to the project. RetroShare is pretty solid as well...
According to Prism Break, Jami is a good peer-to-peer video chat client. It's also cross platform. However, I've heard that since it's still under active development, it can be a little buggy (I haven't personally tried it out for myself yet).
Thank you for the explanation. I just noticed the arch package is flagged as out-of-date... well, hopefully someday there will be an official linux package for non-deb/rpm distros :) I'll try what you suggest, thanks again.
Hi, Thanks for this question.
First, it is very unlikely that the Ethereum blockchain will suddenly stop working, as it is a distributed system and it would require all its users to stop running it at once. Additionally, the blockchain that is used in Jami is independent of the Ethereum blockchain, even though they share the same code. Furthermore, even if Jami's blockchain stopped working, it would still be possible to use Jami but without the ability to find someone by their username, you'd have to use their Jami ID. More info here : https://jami.net/the-jami-blockchain-switches-from-proof-of-work-to-proof-of-authority/
Developers can contribute patches and help fixing issues. Otherwise user feedback is also very important, If you found an issue we want to know about it and you can post it on our tracker if its not already there. Additionally, we always appreciate when people spread the word about Jami.
It seems that it will work fine:
Also it depends on what you mean by Tor environment in Linux. Do you e.g. Tails? If you mean e.g. that you use Tor as in Tor browser, the rest of the GNU/Linux will not be affected, meaning other protocols can be used without interfering with the Tor connection. If you are talking about Tails/Whonix, then most applications can work if they're not only dependent on UDP for example.
We have multiple suggestions on real time communication, look for VoIP label or Video/Voice Calling. At least:
- Signal
- Wire
- Jitsi Meet
While it's apparently not listed, I think GNU Jami aims to challenge Skype, but I would consider it as experimental for now.
Specifically you should have stated which phone application than a generic title... FOSS decentralized solutions are rather what should be "most secure and private" than centralized solutions with your said applications. Hence where I think Briar has potentials but it's only available for Android. Another potential is Jami, it's cross-platform and decentralized.
u/Danrobi1: Yes, Jami is cross-platform and decentralized. If you don't mind doing "a bit more advanced", I can suggest you Ricochet with OnionShare or RetroShare as they're good alternatives as I mentioned above.
Jami – peer-to-peer with end-to-end-encryption with peer discovery over DHT. So it’s basically instant messaging over the same technology that powers trackerless BitTorrent. Voice, video, messaging, and file transfers.
- they are a GNU project (they're all about freedom and privacy)
- decentralized (nobody is the boss of you), anonymous (it does not require providing any identifiers like phone or email)
- all data is stored on your devices (so don't forget to make backups or at least link a 2nd device)
so that is likely the winner for you.
For the sake of clarity, Jami is not a "successor" to Ring, the project has just been renamed, and is still a GNU project. Here's the announcement on the GNU Ring mailing list: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/ring/2018-12/msg00002.html
... and on the blog on the new Jami website: https://jami.net/ring-becomes-jami/
Because this only happened at the end of last year, Jami is in a bit of a transitional state. The current website at Jami.net looks like a bit of a placeholder, letting people know the key information about the rename, and no doubt more sections and links will be added over time, as other transitional tasks are completed.
What a surprise... To be honest I grew frustrated with skype’s constant “improving user experience” updates every day and a half and “don’t forget to rate the call!” If it’s not supported on my browser of choice then there are some up and coming open source alternatives like https://jami.net
You could add Ring/Jami for Chat/Communication. iOS, Android, FDroid, MSW10, macos, linux. It is p2p encrypted message/chat/voice/video. You can install it on phone and laptop, or, in the same way, on a local instance to "act as a server" though (even though it doesn't really need a server, but, this IS /r/selfhosted, right?).
I agree that Matrix stands above the alternatives, but federation is not what sets it apart. There are other federated networks, like XMPP, and even distributed networks (which are principially better than federation), like GNU Jami, so when it comes to the model, Matrix really has no unique headstart.
What sets it apart is that, in addition to being federated, it manages to work well, look attractive, and be reasonably easy to get into. In comparison:
- I've had much more trouble with XMPP, as there are many servers, many providers, and many clients, and all of them support different subsets of XMPP and its extensions. There was just no easy, painless way for me to get people set up reliably, even though what was supported worked pretty well after that. With Matrix, I can just give people Riot for starters, and things just work.
- GNU Jami is conceptually really simple to use, even more so than Matrix or XMPP, I would say, and it's encrypted and distributed by default. However, things which are supposed to work sometimes won't, and things which one would expect to work are not implemented at all (e.g. off-line message delivery). That's in part due to the difficult architecture, and I hope to see the flaws fixed and polished in the future. Until then, Matrix has been giving me a really solid experience.
Bridges probably play a role, too; one can make the move and still be connected to their old networks. But federation is only a part of what makes it stand out.
It's been a while since I looked in detail into underlying technologies, but Jami (it was named GNU Ring) has somewhat interesting SIP implementation. As far as I understand they are based on DHT distributed network and somewhat modified SIP for voice/video.
It might be worth looking into.
Jami might be less private/secure/distributed than Tox, but at least it works reasonably reliably. Messages do get undelivered sometimes though (when recipient is offline I think, which is quite annoying as they have to be re-sent manually). And Android mobile client drains battery like crazy.