My summary of the main conclusions of this discussion is:
It's your website, and your approach built Erowid's current success. We just consider this project important and beneficial, and we're eager to contribute. Thanks again!
Hi All,
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If anyone is looking for a book that will actually change your view on psychedelics, I highly recommend The Chemistry of Mind-Altering Drugs by Daniel Perrine. Although it is literally a textbook, it's written like a story as the author himself acknowledges that drugs are not just chemical structures but have important cultural context. Here's an Amazon link for a used copy. It really did shift my perception of a lot of different things. I'm a chemistry student so it was probably particularly impactful but there's a great appendix in the back that goes over the basics of organic chemistry so you can really make yourself understand if you spend the time.
Olney’s Lesions were observed in the posterior cingulate and retrosplenial cortices of rats when DXM was administered intravenously at doses of 75 mg/kg (Hashimoto, 1999). However, whether this applies to humans is questionable, as humans self administer orally at doses typically not exceeding 20 mg/kg, with threshold effects observed at roughly 2 mg/kg. Furthermore, oral administration of up to 400mg/kg daily to male rats was not found to induce lesions or vacuolization at either posterior cingulate or retrosplenial cortices, even after daily administration for 30 days (Carliss, 2007).
Maybe you didn't read the whole article. While it spends a lot of time on the case with Buisson, there is ample other documentation later in the article of sexual abuse allegations against a number of other therapists. Here are some quotes:
>In 2017, Daniel Pinchbeck, who has written extensively on psychedelics and shamanism, acknowledged his “sexually fixated, creepy, predatory” behavior, including “the use of substances as tools of seduction.”
​
>In February 2018, Oriana Mayorga, a community organizer at the nonprofit Citizen Action of New York, emailed Balktick the Horizons conference director, and told him that a board member at Horizons, Neal Goldsmith, was widely seen as someone who commits sexual misconduct. Balktick acted quickly, hiring an attorney as neutral mediator to listen to complaints and creating an online form for people to file concerns. “It was really clear that there were so many consistent and credible reports of sexual misconduct on Neal’s part,” said Balktick.
The article goes on to quote other people about the liability to sexual abuse in this sort of therapy (and indeed in psychotherapy in general). So I think you are giving an incomplete account of the full article notwithstanding the somewhat click-baity headline.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-39462-1
They were using ReleafApp
They ask what symptoms you're trying to help, then they ask the user the strain, thc percent, etc, record how much you smoke, then they ask you to rate, out of 5 stars how much your symptoms have improved. There's no option for like zero. I feel like using stars instead of 'out of 10 insert float here' encourages users to rate things 5 stars, where as I'd be less inclined to say that my symptoms improve 10 out of 10. Just my own two cents. I support cannabis research and believe there are beneficial effects, I just think science gotta science properly
The categories that they were studying were:
I don't have any direct experience with swapping the two, but two studies I pulled from the modafinil wiki found that the drug increases dopamine in the striatum and the nucleus accumbens, which amphetamine also does, albeit to a greater degree. Because increased synaptic dopamine is implicated in much of amphetamine's psychoactive effects, I would imagine there would be at least some level of cross tolerance. Hope that helps
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432806005584 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299907004153
I hate to be the "but this is only in mice" guy but I wouldn't get too excited about this translating to humans.
Olfactory bulbectomy appears to produce some similar but also significant differences between species. OBX rats have demonstrated different treatment responses to OBX mice and differences have even been observed between different strains of OBX mice.
> Although most of the OBX-induced behavioral and neurochemical changes seen in mice and rats are very similar, there are also some remarkable differences. For instance, OBX has different effects on BDNF and the 5-HT2c receptor of these two species. These species differ also in how they respond to certain treatments after OBX. In this review we describe these species-specific differences and discuss what they may mean in terms of translational value.
The olfactory bulbectomy model in mice and rat: One story or two tails? (2014)
The full review gives a good summary:
>is a wikipedia-like site possible, where most anyone can contribute information?
Such sites are simply called wikis, and are very easy to make. In fact, Wikipedia published their software so that anyone can use it.
Turning Erowid into a wiki would certainly be possible, but I think it would be too big a change for the administrators to stomach. Also, making it too easy to edit would reduce the reliability of the information. I'm thinking more of a semi-private wiki for developers, from which pages get updated manually.
>could the burden be shared? there is simply too many compounds and too much information for a small number of people to be the only contributors.
Exactly. That's what we're working for.
Here you go. This paper is linked in the first (or second) sentence. Notice how there aren't any data on brain CSF, just lumbar (lower back) CSF. No one takes this too seriously, besides of course that kook McKenna but he is just a rambler and story-teller, nothing more nothing less. Even Rick Strassman is quick to mention that the brain's production of DMT is mere speculation, as there is currently no evidence for such an event.
This is my field (tangentially), too.
The structure:
Interesting, not too complex, though I'm curious how they synthesize that two ring structure.
If you've done 23 and me you can see if you match the type more likely to get psychosis from pot here: https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer/snp/?snp_name=rs2494732
Here's a link to an older study confirming this as well: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22831980
Full article: https://sci-hub.do/10.1002/14651858.CD003012.pub2
...
What I'm getting from this quite tentatively is that you likely have a real effect from SSRIs but with a very small effect size. It's been 16 years...a current meta-analysis would likely have a richer pool of studies to draw from...
ECT often works for people who've failed other treatments. It's not the first thing you try, but it's an important tool that can help people. And its effectiveness is not due to ketamine: there is a substantial literature studying the efficacy of ECT with many different sedation drugs, like propofol, methohexital, or thiopental. See Table 6.2 in this book for some references. Of course, ketamine may be additionally helpful.
Yes, there is a synthesis route which is viable, although on a small scale production would be really quite expensive. It's certainly not kitchen chemistry.
Reduction of methylone isn't really worthwhile unless that's all you have access to, and if you have access to the kit then you have access to many better precursors than methylone.
The only enantiomerically pure RC I'm aware of is DXM. It is simply not worth the additional cost for something which is guaranteed to be less than 100% as potent as the original.
Stereoselective syntheses are quite possible, although without properly reading that paper, I'd guess it was more economical on any scale to use salt resolution.
Yeah, I wouldn't even recommend using the lack of a harsh comedown as a rough gauge of neurotoxicity - I doubt there's much if any correlation between the two.
Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if neurotoxicity universally increases for lighter halogens in this series - according to Wiki (though the studies themselves can't be accessed for free), this and this indicate that the iodide is less neurotoxic than the chloride.
I highly recommend Coursera Drugs and the Brain for a basic understanding on the systems involved.
There is a reason why we still use animal models for testing: Neural simulations are complex, expensive, and not all that accurate right now. I suppose you could probably model first order kinetic reactions on a home computer with success. Anything higher will need some serious computing time. You could look at Parallella for hardware if you really want to get into it. I'm working on one right now.
Good luck! We could really use a model like you are describing.
There are several total syntheses out there. I don't think you looked at the existing route I was referring to. This is a group who took a known synthesis, and made it work better/simpler. Their refined method isn't all there, but could become a viable method.
People haven't tried to do this, because the semisynthesis (from a highly restricted precursor-!) is deceptively "straightforward". The difficulty in getting hold of it is the biggest problem of all. Nobody tries to make a synthetic route work because semisynthesis looks better initially.
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Ah, and a slightly more recent article (2015) on the same subject, by the same authors.
Reddit lets you use a shortened version of BB markdown, it's pretty neat and handy for folks like me who like to write walls of text. Next time you hit reply, click "formatting help" under the reply box to get a list of the most common ones. There are more listed at the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/commenting), but to see the full list of formatting shortcuts, you have to search on the markdown page. Some features are very useful but not mentioned anywhere on reddit itself, for some reason.
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The psychopharmacology on this topic is actually progressing quite a bit, although maybe partly hidden from public light. The main psychedelic effects is actually originating from the 5HT2A receptor agonism (such as DOI and LSD). However, current research has demonstrated the psychedelic experience is more complex than this; there are subtypes of the 5HT2A receptor; i/o and q/11, both of which have to be agonised to cause the typical psychedelic effect. Where as non-psychedelics were found to only agonise the Gq/11 subtype.
As to psychedelics causing an increased risk of cardiac problems? Well, acute ingestion of psychedelics certainly increases the heart rate. But I have found no research on this.
Do you have evidence for that claim? I'm not trolling, I would really like to see evidence, because it seems like a lot of people are using this compound.
EDIT: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0028390875900994
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Cough-due-to-ace-inhibitors%3A-a-case-control-study-Visser-Stricker/f8368afb7d4481017e19da369a480a8519cd301f/figure/0 suggests captopril might be better. Doesn't have ramipril or data for perindopril which is annoying. I think you'd be best served by trail and error.
Page 24 of this slideshow shows a peak at 299 for THC.
Not sure if that helps:
https://www.slideshare.net/GERSTELPresentations/chemical-assessment-of-cannabis-by-gcfid
Summary:
One injection of low dose ketamine is a good antidepressant, and that one dose is effective for up to two weeks.
Since the ketamine is out of your system in a couple hours, there must be some way that the effect is maintained for so long. Studies showed that the one dose of ketamine initiates changes in the circuitry of the brain, in particular increasing the activity in the medial prefrontal cortex.
The question, then, is: what is ketamine doing in its time in the brain, which allows for the antidepressant effect to last after it has left the body? To state another way, what is the mechanism by which ketamine's effects are initiated?
The authors review the two primary mechanisms that have been studied: the "Disinhibition Hypothesis", and the "Direct Hypothesis"
In the disinhibition hypothesis, NMDARs on inhibitory interneurons are blocked more than those on pyramidal neurons, leading to "disinhibition" of the cortex. This enhanced activity somehow initiates the changes underlying the anidepressant effect
In the direct hypothesis, ketamine blocks NMDARs on pyramidal neurons, and that blockade initiates intracellular signalling cascades that result in enhanced protein translation and the formation of new synaspes.
Here's a link to the PDF: https://www.scribd.com/doc/273516780/Two-Cellular-Hypotheses-Explaining-Ketamine-s-Antidepressant-Actions-Direct-Inhibition-and-Disinhibition
It seems that alkaloid of uncaria species block head twitch response trough 5ht2a antagonism as atypical antipsychotic, other than geissoschzine methyl ether that work as a dopamine partial agonist. https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Suppressive-effects-of-isorhynchophylline-on-5-HT2A-Matsumoto-Morishige/10fc58a97d7bc183c8cb18097eb24a721236964b
With Reishi too https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24369991/
But for uncaria the dosage seems too big to reach with oral dosing as it block serotonin response at 5ht2a in the micromolar range. While reishi i dont know for sure as they used a water soluble extract but i cant find how they produced it.
Let me preface this by saying I'm not familiar with the effects on the elderly you mentioned, nor am I very knowledgeable on the subject in general.
I looked up the pharmacological profile of tramadol on Wikipedia and saw it affected the α7 nAChR receptor, which is one of the receptors memantine binds to. When taking memantine, this causes a noticeable worsening of cognition for the first few days, but the α7 nAChR receptors upregulate after that, so they become more sensitive to compensate for memantine's antagonism. This upregulation may be responsible for memantine's cognition-enhancing effects, according to Wikipedia and reddit.
So, if you're taking the extended-release form of tramadol, or are taking it multiple times a day, might the same not be happening there? Even with one regular dose a day, you might be building up some tolerance, though this is all speculation. For comparison: memantine has a half-life of multiple days.
As for the strength of the inhibition; memantine's IC50 for the α7 nAChR receptor is 0.34 and 5.1 μM at -60 mV,^([source]) while tramadol's is 7.4^([source, p. 210]) (no voltage mentioned). This means memantine is a stronger antagonist. How a substance can have multiple IC50s or what the voltage means for the comparison, I don't know.
Personally, I wouldn't conclude that you've damaged your brain too quickly. And as has been said below, if you want to, you can probably counteract tramadol's anticholinergic effects by simply taking cholinergics.
No not at all I hope it didn't come across as judgemental or something! I agree with you wholeheartedly, kratom would be much better to relapse on than opiates but also like you said it's an addictive plant because of its opioid agonism.
Glad to hear you were scared to touch extracts. The kind I was getting were insanely powerful, I remember I got a sample my very first order of some UEI and it felt like any other opiate, luckily it took about a year give or take before I was using extracts everyday. Definitely makes the withdrawal grueling.
Some supplements I use regardless of in WD or not are black seed oil and turmeric with a curcumin extract. Conincedentally they can have some help during withdrawals as well.
Cats claw shares mitraphylline with kratom and its hypothesized that it might have ndma antagonist effects along with being an anti inflammatory and a potential treatment for breast cancer.
How many times do you use it in one day?
I referenced that paper because it was the closest thing to my own proposed route. But I specified different conditions for converting tryptophan, if you look at my diagram. AlCl3 will complex the primary amine, turn the carboxylic acid into the acylium ion, and then complex that too. -This happens with excess AlCl3
The "superelectrophile" produced will readily attack the aromatic ring then.
Come to think of it, SOCl2 would be a good thing; as it will react with the amine and form sulfinylimine, which will protect it from attack. If tryptophan is added into SOCl2, that will help avoid oligomerization, as the carboxylate reacts first, then the amine, and the product is not very reactive to fresh tryptophan.
After that, the reaction using AlCl3 will proceed as before.
(Aliphatic) sulfinylimines hydrolyze easily, so it won't be a problem to take it off afterwards.
"Why not start from 3-indolepropanoic acid, cyclize, and then alpha-halogenation to install a labile SN2 leaving group so that you can attack with azide and reduce later to get your amine back."
There's nothing wrong with that, it's like the existing preps and will probably work. Instead of azide they react it with an amine that bears components of the D-ring on it, but that reaction is slow. The azide might be faster, but there are extra steps involved.
The reason I chose tryptophan is that the natural synthesis of the ergoloid skeleton inspired me.
No, I'm not looking for a challenge; I'm looking for a route to LSD.
It's not being made by total synthesis right now, because of a lack of organized effort, or more likely initiative. Even the existing route could work commercially, with a little polishing. There are some quite time-consuming steps in it.
"ps tldr the links provided contain misinformation and a recent meta-analyses demonstrates the effectives of antidepressants for major depressive disorder"
No they do not.
if you are referring to the cipriani study. that study does not access to the raw data of internal documents of those companies. it is completely based on the information drug companies have decided to be released and even then they are ghostwritten aka the researchers do not have access to the ACTUAL data of the random clinical trials. Unbelievably biased sample.
Everything tom cruise said in that interval was accurate he just came across as a nob because he didn't want to give the interviewer a chance to ask questions he might not know the answer to.
Yes Breggin is a pscychiatrist. The rules changed when he was in his 60s (aka retirement age) so he didn't bother to go through the extra qualification. Ridiculous
its interesting people who don't know he is come across those two articles and think they are more credible than the lead investigator of the Eli Lilly major lawsuit trials.
Dr. Russel Barkley. You're saying Peter Breggins a quack when you haven't read any of his books nor his history and accomplishments. You then cite Barkley someone who has received 100s of thousands of dollars by the makers of these drugs. lol. "Dr. Russell A. Barkley, who wrote the book on executive function and ADHD, acknowledged receiving 24 percent of his income in 2007 as a speaker/consultant for Eli Lilly Co., Shire and Novartic, the makers of Strattera, Vyvanse and Ritalin respectively." https://www.huffpost.com/entry/deconstructing-the-adhd-e_b_462876
Are you reading these articles? The one you just linked states that nicotine caused increased CYP1A2 activity. That was consistent with in vitro findings.
However, the other articles linked below you comment state that this did not translate to a decreased half life of caffeine. See table 1, page 2 of the complete article here: https://sci-hub.do/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3243019/
The lab operators doing all the large scale production supplying US demand have apparently been enantiomerically resolving their synthesized material, and for quite some time as actual forensic chemistry publications by DEA associates noted things to do with this earlier than 5 years ago, notably how increasingly common enantiomerically skewed samples were becoming. Indeed most seized samples are (+)methamphetamine hcl. There's some interesting data on the last few pages of this article pertinent to this discussion. It really is more focused on profiling different synthesis routes recently used through analysis of the minute process impurities, but should also suggest the depth to which this topic has been thought about by the forensic chemistry community and contrastingly how little data is presented by anyone who brings this up claiming something is wrong with the "mexican meth".
https://sci-hub.do/10.1016/j.forc.2018.12.003
They often find tartaric acid at sites that have been used for meth production by cartel labs. Here's one article. Plenty more if you research dilligently.
And I don't necessarily believe harman is exclusively a pyrolytic decomposition product. It's found in many plants: https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/UQx0rQSPpi61JUdkfHyr_-LFhbi0GCAWdmZNsz4dK78
germx99 on The Shroomery reports:
"Bioassay of the crystalline extract was confirmed with a pronounced harmala intoxication, though much cleaner feeling than a few grams of syrian rue."
10/17/14 - Russian Olive: MAOi in Our Backyards
As per https://quip.com/XpwxAzisPV5k, it says I should take Magnesium during and R-ALA every 2 hours.
I did eventually stumble upon https://www.reddit.com/r/DrugNerds/comments/15m9sf/mdma_supplementation so it seems like I got concerned for no reason.
I don't plan on taking Melatonin since I'm not too concerned about having difficulties sleeping. I am on still debating whether I should take 5-HTP/ECGC. I keep reading "it's useless" vs "it helps."
New book on this looks interesting, his previous book was amazing. The Least of Us: True Tales of America and Hope in the Time of Fentanyl and Meth https://www.amazon.com/dp/1635574358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_SKAPA66NV83HS1PNDBZZ
I’m not going to speak to the actual paper but the author sounded familiar and indeed this Albert Stuart Reece appears to be somewhat of a known quantity as a religious (literally) anti-drug crusader. Probably better known for his opposition to opioid maintenance treatment and for getting in some legal trouble for unauthorized use of naltrexone (or something along those lines) years ago. So it’s possible he’s reaching a little bit in his conclusions here.
I think I heard of him from his opioid/vascular stiffness papers? At the time I didn’t contextualize anything else about him.
Hey! I made a completely free version of the Drug Bible. If you enjoy it, please consider purchasing the full version to enjoy an ad free experience.
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Hey! I made a completely free version of the Drug Bible. If you enjoy it, please consider purchasing the full version to enjoy an ad free experience.
Available on the Play Store and App Store
Hey! I made a completely free version of the Drug Bible. If you enjoy it, please consider purchasing the full version to enjoy an ad free experience.
Available on the Play Store and App Store
Hey! I made a completely free version of the Drug Bible. If you enjoy it, please consider purchasing the full version to enjoy an ad free experience.
Available on the Play Store and App Store
Hey! I made a completely free version of the Drug Bible. If you enjoy it, please consider purchasing the full version to enjoy an ad free experience.
Available on the Play Store and App Store
Yeah, luckily I’m an old boomer... so I’m popping tums like they are candy anyways. I also supplement with pills from the link below. I’ve found it completely stops the “nervous sweats” you sometimes get when taking adderall
Nutri Essentials Calcium Magnesium Zinc + Vitamin D3 Tablets- Promotes Strong Bones & Teeth, Support Nerve & Muscle Function* (300 Count) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C85C7QG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_y9R0FbH2WM5V8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Maybe DOB and DOI? And you have jimson weed, but what abut other members of the nightshade family?
You might be interested in using my book as a reference, it sounds like we have a similar scope. Magic Medicine
Amazon sells a fantastic stirrer for like $45
Ed: if you're concerned about volatile gas production or such and you're choosing to DIY a stir plate using a computer fan, make sure it's a brushless motor or it can and will produce tiny electrical arcs during operation.
> Interesting, thank you for telling me. This is what I tried. > > > > https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-Strength-Enteric-30-Count/dp/B0011FTJZ0
It's like comparing ALA to RLA. RLA is far superior. Or L-Theanine with DL-Theanine.
Hmm they don't say. It's an important question before buying any brand of SAMe.
Hah it's no myth. I've experimented a fair deal with DMSO. It worked great for Dihexa, MK-677, and cannabinoids. Did not work as well with quercetin (although it would make for a very caustic, itchy spray-tan) or hydroxocobalamin.
I have an MFLB and I'll take the AVB, add DMSO to it, and in a week you have an amazing analgesic ointment. You even get slight psychoactivity from it.
You can taste DMSO less than 5 minutes after applying it to clean skin. It itches like a bitch for several minutes but as long as you don't do it too often it doesn't cause lasting irritation.
I use this brand. Good stuff and it comes in glass.
It's super fucked up indeed. Western psychiatry likes to be seen as scientific, but that's a massive lie. Psychiatry is still in the dark ages and I'm convinced we will look back to a lot of the current medicines as we look to bloodletting. People might well be better off getting acupuncture for depression as it at least doesn't do any harm.
This book recently helped open my eyes: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cracked-Psychiatry-Doing-More-Harm/dp/1848315562