I cycle on and off kratom, I stop when my hair starts falling out. It takes me about 4 weeks to notice a little difference and about 3 months until my hair is completely back to normal. I've tried everything that is mentioned on here and nothing seems to help much, but this last time, I started taking this biotin https://www.amazon.com/Biotin-Infused-Organic-Virgin-Coconut/dp/B00IOZWC2M/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=biotin&qid=1605812606&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzMkRKVTdHTEI5RlZRJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjQzMzkz... and have noticed a difference. My stylist even noticed that my hair is thicker than normal. I've started using kratom again, only twice a week for about the last month and have been fine so far. I wish hair loss was not a side effect, I'd much rather take kratom than Vicodin, I will just cycle on and off until I find a better alternative.
Being sober deffinitely does not suck... Telling yourself this sounds like an excuse not to quit. It can fucking suck at the beginning, first weeks, maybe even first few month wont be a paradise on earth, but that is how it is. That is how drugs generally work, you borrow the happiness and drive from tomorrow. Whatever effects drug have, you just borrow then from your natural future self. So you can expect to feel bad. But things will start to turn around.
And I would argue that there is no high like kratom. Life is full of up and downs, but you will feel it only when you are not on drugs for some time. You say you motivate yourself by thinking about the bumps and stuff, but trust me, the psychological benefits are huge. Just stay strong bro.
Also try the Quit Kratom android app, for some people it can be a great source of motivation.
I'm sure everybody has already seen this on their facebook page but Vivazen is a Canadian company (390-23 West Pender, Vancouver Canada). That probably means a class action lawsuit isn't an easy possibility.
If you put that address into google you get a company that has the same address called ZAG Group (Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zag-group). It is the same company because they say they are into natural pharmaceuticals and so on. If they have a facebook page maybe that is a better spot to target?
I've read that high intensity weight training can help raise testosterone levels naturally. (https://www.webmd.com/men/features/exercise-and-testosterone)
Which begs the age old question... Do u even lift bro?
In all seriousness, I know it can be hard to start, especially when your T levels are low, but maybe it's worth splurging on a personal trainer to help solidify the habit. Not there yet myself but it's a goal for 2018.
Ok. Thank you. I think I’m going to try this one.
Nutrient Tree Liposomal Vitamin C | Alcohol Free | Non-Soy | Non-GMO | Made in USA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0082MQEOE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_HR026ZPNTSMR9Y0JS3Q5
I bought this cool tens unit type neck band on Amazon that helps so much with headaches. I usually get them daily and this thing takes them away without taking medicine.
Yea. I was taking a product called ALPHA-AF. I know the name sounds gimmicky but the ingredients are solid. They helped me feel way better especially with exercise.
This is what I take. (I went through boot camp just fine without Kratom too so I wasn’t dependent on these products)
And a good diet with plenty of greens.
Do your best to cut down on stimulants and caffeine. i.e. Nicotine, coffee. Tea is ok.
Edit: there’s an ingredient they don’t list on the Alpha-AF bottle listed on their site but I’m looking at it in my hand right now and it actually contains a well known anti-estrogen chemical in the body building world. It’s safe to take and will help you feel better.
Hi.
Step one, is to go buy a cheap digital scale that can read tenths of a gram.
Actually, Step One is admitting you have a problem and asking for help. So congrats! You're already on your way!!
THIS is the one I bought off Amazon for $17 and served me well, but just about any will do.
Once you know where you stand, you know how far you have to go.
The tapering guide found in the sidebar is a fantastic resource that many (including myself) used to dial usage down to a more reasonable level before jumping off. This is VERY doable. You can do it.
Commit to change, and then start putting one foot in front of the other.
Supplements are helpful, but everybody seems to have a different experience.
Make a note of how you feel right now. It will be your best resource in times of struggle.
You got this!
Magnesium glycinate or other "chelated" formula. There's tons of different "types" of magnesium but to my understanding it really just differs based on absorption. For me, the best bang for the buck was this from Amazon.
My hair fell out by the handful! I have long blonde hair and it was traumatic for it isn’t anymore and it’s only been a short while. I can already see the difference. No more circles under my eyes, no more waking up sick to music is amazing again! My anxiety comes and goes but it’s worth it I promise! I’m also gaining my weight back and exercising again which I believe is key! Buffered vitamin c helped immensely as well, id suggest looking into that. I also used Imodium for a few days which I believe was a life saver, not gonna lie. Any questions you can pm me. You got this girl!
This is going to be very unoriginal advice, but I would really suggest that you start exercising again, in any way you feel up for. What I did was order an exercise bike (this one) and I use it whenever I feel restless or irritable and it helps me tremendously, even if I just use it for 5-10 minutes.
Best of luck to you.
I couldn't do cold turkey because i started losing my mind at work and acting really weird around my family. If you can do cold turkey and you're powering through than stick with it, more power to you dude. I got a notebook and wrote down and weighed out/counted capsules and measured exactly how much i was taking, tracking it and each day just go down a little bit. You're going to feel crappy at times but as your doses get smaller and smaller you will start to feel better eventually.
What helped me supplement wise was indica cannabis in the evenings (calmed me down/helped me sleep/kept me occupied), kava (for anxiety) and melatonin/natural sleep aids for sleep. Dont mess with benedryl or tylenol PM for sleep i hear it makes you more irritable. I also got this stuff called DLPA
​
A lot of people claim DLPA helped them with withdrawal symptoms, my last quit wasnt too too bad, so its possible it helped some. All of these supplements above would help you with CT too.
Good luck
I feel you. Take it as a learning experience. What you are dealing with is a drug addiction, making a reason why it is ok to use is just a part of it. And it seems ok, until you actually relapse and you realize that you fooled yourself once again. It’s part of the process, but you have to learn from it. Anyway I feel like you could benefit from the Quit Kratom app for Android . It could serve as another source of motivation. Good luck.
No motivation? Consider this: withdrawal lasts for max. few weeks. But the benefits of quitting will last for a FUCKING LIFETIME. You got this bro. For an additional motivation, consider downloading the Quit Kratom app , if you are an app person, it might help you big time! The achievements etc. might give you some motivation. But the main motivation is that you will be free, forever. Stay strong.
A big help is replacing bad habits with good ones, but it's easier said than done. As you said, kratom has become ingrained into your daily life. Rituals are immensely important to addicts. I think I remember reading about a study wherein cocaine addicts were asked to cut up an inert white powder into lines, like they would with coke, and their brains lit up with activity because the ritual was so strongly associated with getting high. (I could be getting the details wrong.)
One of the hardest parts of quitting for me has been replacing that ritual of kratom preparation that is so ingrained in my life, and filling in those now empty gaps of time. One thing that has helped a little bit is replacing an unhealthy green powder (kratom) with a healthy one (matcha tea) prepared the same way. When I would take kratom, I would weigh it out with a scale in a little cup, dissolve it in juice, and drink it down. So I kept that ritual, but used matcha tea instead, which gave me a little boost of energy, but more importantly, filled in a gap that otherwise would have been filled by getting high. Might be worth trying out; you can get matcha powder for pretty cheap on Amazon.
For more on habits and how they affect our lives, check out the book The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg.
Good luck, hope this helps!
I hope people see your post and try it out. Meditation is a super powerful weapon against addiction. I began my mindfulness practice with Jon Kabatt Zinn's "Full Catastrophe Living", and "Wherever you go, There you are". I appreciated his clinical, science based approach to mindfulness meditation. Good for people like me that feel kind of iffy about the religious/metaphysical stuff sometimes associated with meditating.
This is so true. There is an old book I suggest to people with a negative outlook on life: "Think and Grow Rich". It's an easy read, and not simply about monetary 'richness'. It's a way of life/thought that requires you to always envision you succeeding at your desires, and in that way they can become reality (oddly enough this works, and it's a huge boost of confidence to tell yourself every day "I'm going to succeed at this"). But, if you're envisioning failure/boredom/unhappiness instead of success, that is exactly what will manifest in your life .
There's more to the technique than I'm letting on here, but it's a really easy read for anyone interested.
Hey there Whip!
I'm so damn sorry you are going through this additional crap right how. Sometimes when it rains, it freakin' pours. Don't give up hope!
There's this fantastic book I read several years ago by Steven Pressfield titled THE WAR OF ART (Not to be confused with The Art of War.) A writer buddy of mine recommended it to me. The book was written for creative types ie, artists, writers, musicians, entrepreneurs as kind of a kick in the pants to get going with our work. After reading the book several times I feel like it applies to ANYONE trying to accomplish ANYTHING that's positive. For people who are trying to make meaningful change in their lives.
I'll try to sum it up the best way I can. Pressfield writes a lot about Resistance and how it rears it's ugly head anytime we are trying to accomplish anything. And Resistance comes in many forms. In his view Resistance sole purpose is to fuck us up and get us off track. Anyways I think the book is worth a read because not only does it define resistance, it shows you how to overcome it or use it to your advantage. It's very well written and super fast to get through. That book literally changed my entire outlook on life, for the better. :) It showed me how to dig deep and persevere when Resistance was hot on my heels trying it's hardest to get me to quit.
I hope you don't think I'm minimizing what you are going through. That's not my intention. But OMG, I've so been there. More times than I can count and this book gave me some great tools to better fight through shit so I could make those changes and accomplish those goals.
I think it's great that you are seeing an addiction specialist on Monday. Hopefully you guys will be able to come up with a plan to help you get clean AND manage your pain. Take care and keep us posted! :)
I was using Vipassana Meditation. I did some digging and found the pdf I read. It is a free preview of a book, it has enough to get you past the beginning phases (75 pages or so). Honestly, I don't think you would need more than that for a long time unless you wanted to learn about Buddhism, but I haven't read the other chapters. Here is the link, just look for the preview for the book called Mindfulness in Plain English:
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
Just like any religion, you can find many books that discuss meditation and Buddhism for free as well. Also, just like anything these days, there is a sub over at /r/meditation that is full of people trying to learn, sharing tips, and offering support. Just start small, set your phone timer for 5 minutes after you are ready to start and sit. Good luck
When I get to 3 months.. I'm having a party... not joking.
I can say this much to you with conviction... your brain will get better. My basic degree is in neuroscience and though that education was a long time ago, I still remember the chapters on neuroplasticity.... you will get better.
Don't know if this is useful, but I'm reading a book called The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg... and it is a good one, with applications that include forming new/healthy habits to help bury the old ones. Also, if there are any SMART recovery groups in your area, they are great. Science based stuff and I've met some great folks in that crowd.
I am impressed and inspired by your success... thank you for sharing your story, thank you very much!!!
Great summary!!! I agree with everything you said, I think it’s absolutely an essential step to a successful taper.
If anyone is interested, these are the little containers I bought for my doses. Wish they were a little smaller but get the job done
6 Pack Plastic Pot Jars Round... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JYNLK42
I don't remember exactly which Epictetus I read, but Enchiriodon looks like a good summary. His advice seems harsh. But even if you don't adopt his views 100%, it really helps you sort out what's important and what is not.
Some stuff to ruminate on: https://medium.com/stoicism-philosophy-as-a-way-of-life/stoicism-and-the-buddhist-path-2c592d407fd1
The intro meanders a bit, you could scroll down to "The 5 Hindrences".
Hi there! I'm currently tapering down from about 40gpd - I'm at 8.5gpd now. I got a digital scale and I pre-weigh all my doses for the day. I store each individual dose in one those old school film cannisters (I got these ones) and it works beautifully.
I know it's a lot to take in but if you commit it's totally possible, just hang around this sub and read all the stories and support! Good luck to you, I know you can do it!
You might need to buy a new gram scale that is measurable to the point.01. Most regular food scales can't do that and they arent too accurate when it comes to grams. The one I got was $10 and totally worth it. Weigh Gram Scale Digital Pocket Scale,100g by 0.01g,Digital Grams Scale, Food Scale, Jewelry Scale Black, Kitchen Scale 100g https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y61YW7S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_02SXW1DACQC4QBEV0HQ7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Hey there! Yep, let me break down what I did for you. I bought this scale on Amazon:
Gram Scale Small Digital Food... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095WGHK72?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
And I started at 3.3g every 2, and IF I could push it, 3 hours. Did that for a couple of days. It was uncomfortable yes but I would write down the precise amount of my dosage and what time I took it. I did that for exactly 4 days until I got adjusted. My symptoms were chills, aches, the whole shebang but nothing unbearable. Some RLS at night. I walked, cooked, cleaned house even when I really really didn’t want to just to pass the time.
So the next few days after getting adjusted I did 3.1 g every 3 hours. I wouldn’t touch it under that three hour mark. I did that for 4 days. The next 4 days I’d do 3.0g every 3.5 hours. Another 4 days: 2.5g every 3.5 hours. Now I’m at 2.1g every 4-5 hours. Make sure to measure your doses the night before so there’s no temptation to take more than you need to. That’s what helped me the most is measuring ahead to alleviate the temptation. I bought some cheap plastic containers on Amazon and I’d measure my 6 doses the night before and have them ready to go for the next day. I’m finally at 10gpd now. I never thought I’d get this low. The only symptom I have is just some body aches. I’m starting to feel like a person again. Im out and about more, seeing friends, laughing, crying. I’m doing a rather slow taper but it’s working for me. I hope this helped and I hope you find what works for you! Best of luck 😊
I was a 70-80gpd user for 6 months. One day at the beginning of January 2022, I got sick of it giving me a false sense of security and went cold turkey. Bad idea. My withdrawal symptoms hit as I got covid then I developed severe gastritis, IBS, and GERD as a result of Kratom destroying the flora in my gut. Litterally thought I was going to die. No one told me that could happen. Probably should warn people about Kratom fucking up your gut microbiome.
Anyway, Im doing fine now, back to normal. Eating junk food again. I missed it so much. Minor symptoms IBS but eating fibrous food helps with that. I followed peoples recommendations here and started eating a lot of probiotic foods. Basically just ate spinach with salmon everyday as bland as possible. Every morning I drank a tablespoon of ORGANIC apple cider vinegar with water for my GERD and gastritis. The organic vinegar is what you want, it has the live culture on the bottom for your microbiome so shake it before you pour a spoon full.
I dont know about your headaches but I've been taking these magnesium pills recommended to me. They're pretty healthy and long lasting. I haven't been getting fatigued ever since I've been taking them. Magnesium SRT
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WVYB8Y/ref=twister_B09NP5SJ8F?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
This is a good magnesium supplement for going thru withdrawal. It's not a cure-all but it can take some of the edge off.
Liquid Liposomal Vitamin C 1000mg... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076DHWN3Z?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share. This one I swear takes my paws away almost completely. I have tried them all and this has improved my quality of life so much. It's worth 30 bucks and more. By fair the most effective one I have tried.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AYIM9Y8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
I bought this based on someone else's post. suggested dosage is 750mg (1/6 tsp) up to 4 times daily. I've been taking a full tsp 3 times per day, so that's 4,500 mg in one go. I dose in the morning, then around 5pm, and again at bedtime. my wd have been very mild, but when I first started taking vitamin C it did tear the shit out of my stomach. so I tempered that with loperamide for a few days, but things seem to have adjusted now. I'm going to start tapering the vitamin C tomorrow, have already started tapering the loperamide.
and just as an aside, I'm sure you know, but benzos are dangerous as fuck. if you think kratom wd is bad, try getting off a benzo habit. be very careful, use very sparingly maybe just to sleep for the first few days, then stop taking it and throw it out. taking it for a week or so (sparingly) shouldn't be an issue, but you definitely do not want to develop a dependency.
This is what I used until things got back to normal.
The best flavors are the mint chocolate and all the coffee ones
Google megadose vitamin C for opiate withdrawal. Seems to work for kratom as well
I got this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XTKRF5V/ and take a cup every 4-5 hours.
Yeah. There's also the 'fight or flight' thing. When we get stressed in modern times, it's not because an animal is chasing us, it's our boss or something else we can't run from. So we have to sit there in the anxiety. The evolutionary purpose for those chemicals is to enable us to run or fight. When we run, we use up the anxiety (adrenaline) type chemistry as it was intended, and "feel goods" are released to reward the 'escape' or the 'kill' or whatever, and to defeat the pain of endurance running. Check out the book "Spark" which talks about why running is good for us. Fascinating. Chapter 1 was a little dry, so skip to 2 if you are feeling that.
edit: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/spark-john-j-ratey/1100163983
Take like 2-3,000 mgs every 2-3 hours until bedtime. Mega dose and continue for at least a month. 60-70% of your WD will be gone. There are tons of studies out there.
Get this, it's cheap, easy on the gut and all you'll need. Keep taking it for a month or more. Lessen the dose after the WD subsides. You will be just fine
Hi this is just a slip, a bump in the road, you don't go back to day 1! If you tossed it don't beat yourself up or focus on number of days just charge ahead and forget it. It was just a mistake it's only how you frame this in your own mind. I suggest reading this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freedom-Model-Addictions-Treatment-Recovery/dp/0983471347
Eventually your 1g kratom dose will need to be increased to provide the same pain relief plus you have the all too familiar issues of physical dependency and addiction once dose increases to high levels with frequent use. Best to not consider use of kratom as a long term solution for pain for the same reasons opiates are not a good long term solution for pain (lead to more inflammatory based pain long term).
Have you considered Astaxanthin ? It is a potent anti inflammatory and pain blocker. I started using it shortly after quitting kratom about 3 months ago to help with my scoliosis pain (reason I started kratom 6 years ago). It works amazingly well. Really. It takes a few weeks to build up, but once it does, goodbye pain. It’s not addictive and works as a powerful Cox-2 inhibitor and antioxidant.
Apparently, the supplement helps with a lot of other physical and psychological ailments as well as one would expect from the high concentrations of omegas in it. Just need to take one a day. It’s about the size of a krill capsule. I would not look at taking Astaxanthin as “being dependent” on a drug like one is dependent on kratom or opiates. More like taking a daily vitamin. Take a look into it.
Thanks so much for the response! Something that’s really helped me with almost all my symptoms was magnesium flake baths, an absolute game changer! These were the ones I got and I’ve been getting about 5-6 hours a night:
I did manage to get some sleep! The game changer for me was getting some magnesium flakes for a bath. They legit took away my aches and pains, my anxiety, my chills, I couldn’t believe it.
Ancient Minerals Magnesium Bath Flakes - Bathing Alternative to Epsom Salt - Soak in Natural Salts - High-Absorption Efficiency for Relaxation, Wellness & Muscle Relief - 8 lbs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BBD508C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_DPZDS3SGRW25ZHKKMKB1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Those were the ones I got, people were raving about them, and I now see why :) I hope you start to feel better my friend, remember what we’re going through is only temporary.
we sell a lockbox which can be remotely controlled. It can surely help you with your problem :) Just give access to a friend, and then when you need access to it again you can ask them to open it for you.. voila! no way to get around it, and no more wasted product! https://www.amazon.com/Stash-Can-Smell-Proof-Intelligent/dp/B089PXZC29
Just don't beat yourself up too much about it. Feeling worthless or like you have failed is one more reason to keep doing it. Addiction is such a compelling mistress - when you've got your chest puffed up and are like, "c'mon, do your worst" it hangs back like, "oh, okay, yeah... you're right." And then you stub your toe. Or have a shit day at work. Or your friend does something to piss you off. It's right there in those moments where the beast gets really, really compelling. And it just wears you down.
It's not a very well-known recovery method these days, but Rational Recovery always resonated with me. It's not about hitting meetings or support groups or anything - it's simply a way to separate your instincts and see them for what they are. SMART Recovery borrows some of its tenets. Either way, you know what you need to do here. Is it gonna suck? Big time, but you already knew that. That's the worst part about the sludge, detoxing is so shitty that avoiding it is enough to keep you in its embrace.
Not sure what your plan is, but a medically-assisted taper has always been the least interruptive, soul-crushing way down for me. Even if you come down 1gpd over the span of a month, you don't have to spend all day everyday mentally fixated on the war in your head. Stay busy, stay distracted, stay strong.
You've got this.
Hey, bud. May take awhile to get used to the trigger tags, but I will try my best to use them. I also think the only-upvote system is good for this sub.
I am positive the gentleman over at irc.tripsit.me would be happy to have us. It is a harm reduction network that will literally trip sit people. There is an #addiction channel, but it's mostly quiet and I am sure we could get our own #quittingkratom channel going. I am often on IRC as I work from home so I would be happy to idle and chat with anyone else that needs help.
There are plenty of channels people shouldn't go on that network, so maybe we should look on some other network? We can easily set-up a webchat or mibbit link directly to our channel so clients aren't even needed, though I am using the ancient mIRC. Freenode is a pretty common network, or we can use reddit's own unofficial Snoonet. I am a long-time native user of www.GameSurge.net so although it is entirely unrelated they would be more than happy to have us as well with less drug-oriented channels. Let me know and I will certainly idle if not help set it up.
Also, I appreciate your involvement in this subreddit and constant stream of ideas for it. I know you've got a lot going on, but I am happy you are still here with us contributing. Cheers!
I really can’t stress this enough buy liposmal vitamin C and start mega dosing. It helps tremendously with withdrawal. I just bought this one. It’s cheap and has 1670mg per half tsp. Good luck Man U got this
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RHVLL4R?psc=1&smid=A1LS1XJ2SPG90C&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp
This is the one I use. It’s pretty awesome it has 1,670mg per half tsp. And it’s only $10. Helping tremendously with withdrawal. Mega doing vitamin c should be a staple in anyone’s withdrawal plan for Kratom.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RHVLL4R?psc=1&smid=A1LS1XJ2SPG90C&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp
mine has never leaked. didn’t know that even was a thing that happened to people.
here is one of the weighted blankets i have that i thoroughly enjoy. you may want to buy a cover for it so that you just have to wash the cover and not the heavy blanket. lmk how you like it and definitely go with a heavier side if you can’t decide on a weight. Worst comes to worst, you could prolly exchange it for one with a different weight… Btw, if you get the below linked weighted blanket, don’t forget to click / apply the $5 coupon displayed on Amazon!
ZonLi LIMITED PROMOTION Cool Weighted Cotton Blanket (60''x80'', 20lbs for 170-230lb individual, Grey) for Adults Women, Men, Children| Great for Inso https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075W94KB3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_3FPdqO8SwZhzN
lol i don’t have a brand recommendation. i just ordered dhh-b on amazon and should have it arriving tonight. this is the link to the one i bought on amazon: Stress Anxiety Relief Natural Supplement - Day Chill Pill for Calming, Depression and Anxiety Relief, Powerful dosing of DHH-B Positive Happy Boost Depression Pills for Women and Men. 90 Day Supply https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HCJ4Y1W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_57XE2XC117010SR4D3FY
it has 10 mg of dhh-b, which is higher than most brands
Highly recommend this book. It's from a popular YouTuber. He started off like you and got addicted to pharmaceuticals after getting hurt. Maybe it can help give ya some courage to help get clean. Read part of it in a 28 day detox program I went to.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087L8DWZQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_Y98QRWNYS354JW8E6PEA
Not gabapentin, gabba.
BulkSupplements.com GABA (Gamma Aminobutyric Acid) Powder - Sleep Supplement - GABA 750mg - Focus Aid - Butyric Acid (250 Grams - 8.8 oz) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E7TWVFM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_608NM9RY3SQ4WRQFXVJN
This book to read on their downtime. I'm not much of a book reader and throughly enjoyed it. It was written by an ex opiod addict/drug dealer who is partners with the big youtuber. Also would love to have work for an employer that cares as much as you do for your employees. It seems like a rarity now a days.
The caps were also the first thing I tried. They didn't do anything for me. I tried the micronized (instant kava, just add to water) and I felt something, but it still felt a bit weak. That's when I tried some root powder from amazon. Something like this is great for your first real kava experience
https://www.amazon.com/Wakacon-KAVA-Fijian-WAKA-powder/dp/B00A80163M/
All you really need is a cheap bag strainer, something like this or similar https://www.amazon.com/Kavafied-Kava-Strainer-Bag/dp/B0752Y9NFP/
For me the reverse tolerance thing didn't last that long, maybe a few tries before I was definitely getting the full effects. having said that, you will absolutely feel it the first time if you strain the powder correctly. It's really not hard, and nobody is good at it the first time you just gotta go for it. Tutorials are very helpful. I can also say that in my experience, Kava isn't physically addictive, and as long as you don't consume it with alcohol or in giant quantities for weeks on end there aren't a lot of health issues involved. You may see stuff about liver toxicity but that's due to people in the past consuming the wrong part of the plant and/or mixing it with tons of alcohol.
Now I can't say if the feeling Kava gives you is right for you. There are body kava's and heady kava's. The one I linked is somewhere in the middle based on my own experience with it. I think it's worth trying just to see if you enjoy it. That bag will also last you a decent amount of time.
Ah, good call. Luckily I was thinking they were referring to this GABA which likely wouldn't have done much anyways, but dully noted. Thanks!
Thanks for the suggestion. Would this work? Green Tea-No Caffeine With Ginseng & Chinese Herbs Triple Leaf Tea 20 Bag https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00028LZFO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_FNJEJX6N564WTJTS8T4F id prefer one without caffeine
Yup, density can vary and all that good stuff. If you are doing a taper it's important to be relatively accurate with your doses, by weight instead of trying to do it by volume. As u/PerlerAsFood said get a scale, you can get this one for only 20 bucks and it's gonna be accurate enough for what we are doing.
I got this off Amazon. But most supplement or vitamin stores will sell black seed oil and probably wild lettuce (I saw BSO at a GNC a few days ago).
I also took this extract of wild lettuce
Things to try for joint issues are Boron, Cissus Cuadrangularis, Animal Flex (Supplemnt Stack), Red Light Therapy (I use this)
Test are specifically for Kratom and had great reviews. There’s def crappy ones. We tested on my BF who never has used Kratom just to be sure they were. Here’s link:
(20 Pack) Kratom Urine Drug Test Cartridges https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YZR17P1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabt1_6Z5XFb6910CY1
The detox facility was a nightmare. The issue is Kratom is still an unknown for so many medical professionals. When I started, I only could get online 7 years ago. So they tried to treat me and it was just white knuckling which fuck that. Also they gave me my bag of Kratom back as I left even though I told them why I was there, gave them bag to dispose of and they just didn’t listen.
I detoxed this last time at my boyfriends. He worked so hard at researching best way. I took liquid vitamins, a lot of water, and would take a hit of weed about 4x a day to help anxiety. It honestly was the easiest detox. I mean I struggled some but nothing at all like my 3 other failures.
A pocket scale has been very beneficial for me, during my taper. You would not believe the variance in your dosages when "eyeballing" them. It's such a fine powder that the density of any particular dose could swing wildly by 20% either way, in my experience.
Amazon has a $9 digital scale that works well.
American Weigh Scales AWS-600-BLK Digital Personal Nutrition Scale, Pocket Size, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O37TDO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_iHFPCb5F8VSN4
Best wishes!
Have you tried Melatonin? There one by Natrol at Walgreens and Amazon that is half instant and half time release (link here). It took 2-3 in the first week to take effect for me but it really helped me get back into natural sleep patterns. After the second week I only use occasionally.
Im a female Kratom quitter and my hair loss is actually one of the very big reasons I quit. I really struggled with getting my hair back to normal!
I actually wrote an ebook on my personal experience with Kratom including hair loss as part of my recovery. Every time I felt like some Kratom, I’d grab my laptop and write a bit more.
Recovery has been a very rough road for me :( I have struggled on a physical and emotional level.
If you wanna check out the ebook or paperback book, it’s on Amazon and here is the link: My Kratom Hell
I really hope you all stay strong. Kratom nearly ruined my body and my mind set and my relationship. I’m so proud of everyone trying to quit!
Funny enough.... i just bought one of those weighted blankets. It is fricken AWESOME!! I got the 15 lb blanket but they have 20 lb ones too. You can get them at Bed Bath & Beyond, Walmart or Amazon. They are so nice for the RLS. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FTCRY7Z/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_i_.jVGDb955TG0R
I quit cold turkey, which may not have been a great idea. But vitimans are fine to take whenever you want. I only took ashgawanda, krill oil and sometimes 5-htp as a supplement. Amazon has a supplement that has alot of herbs that help though. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077JBP4NH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_lNQJDbPYBM2VM
I didn't buy it, but it looks promising. But i don't how dosing with supplements would work either.
Kind off topic, kind on topic..
For anyone who doesn't have a decent pair of headphones and even if you do I highly recommend everybody purchase these headphones...
Koss KPH30i
They are thirty bucks on Amazon and occasionally 20 on Drop and are quite possibly the best headphones I've ever used and for sure the best bang for buck ones. This coming from a wannabe 'audiophile' who spent absurd amounts of money on very expensive headphones, DACs, and headphone amps in the past. I'm actually pissed that they sound better then some of my incredibly expensive headphones. They also look pretty awesome with their 80s retro which is a nice change from the giant over here cans everybody has nowadays. They have a lifetime warranty and you can literally send them back if they're break 20 years later. Koss have been around for a long time. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SFK2K17/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_HuFNDbXV6VDH2
Anywho, congrats on the progress and yes, music is amazing when the numbness finally wears off.
I bought this one on Amazon.
Organic Lions Mane Mushroom Capsules - 2100 mg Max Capsule Dose + Absorption Enhancer - Nootropic Brain Supplement and Immune System Booster (100% Pure Lions Mane Extract) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q5DZJTK/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_p5a6DbEKPQZF3
You seem like you’re really suffering. There’s a machine that treats dependency from addiction, addiction, depression, anxiety, stress etc. by Bob Beck called the “brain tuner.” I know it sounds crazy, but do you’re own research. There are tons of videos on YouTube and some will teach you to make it for about $50. Thus series discusses it thoroughly https://youtu.be/uRx0Luz86Uc if you wanna but one already assembled, it’s on amazon w good reviews: SOTA Bio Tuner Model BT9 - an Easy-to-Use Relaxation System Inspired by Harmonic Frequencies https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0791WXW5C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_IES8DbNBYARG5 and some guy on this site swears by it. I ordered one, but it hasn’t arrived. It can’t hurt to look into? There’s plenty of research since the 1960’s to back it up bc it has a 95% response rate, which is pretty remarkable :)
Hey man congrats on 8 days! It will get better eventually, day 8 is a great achievement but relatively speaking you are still at the beginning. So keep it up. If you want to better track your progress consider trying the Quit Kratom android app , it may help to remind you that the WD will eventually go away. Good luck man.
Mostly yes. The worst part is deffinitely over. The rest depends on many factors... it is hard to tell. Focusing on healthy habits and exercise deffinitely speeds up the process. But yeah it is possible to still feel some physical discomfort. Feel free to try Quit Kratom app . It will help you to visualize the process (achievements, info about withdrawal symptoms etc.) Good luck:)
Immodium caps for the stomach and runs (be careful with increased dosages but it also stops a lot of physics withdrawal symptoms) and BSO, DLPA, or megadosing Buffered Vitamin C (2-3g as needed).
The DLPA and Vitamin C raise endorphins and oxytocin/have other direct benefits for withdrawal. The Black Seed Oil also really helps some with pain/aches, mood, and eases withdrawal by a positive allosteric action on opioid receptors.
You will get a higher magnesium absorption if magnesium supplements are taken with a meal and in smaller amounts in each dose.
So 100mg elemental magnesium with each meal through the day and 100mg elemental magnesium before bed will result in higher absorption compared with 400mg elemental magnesium from a single dose. It is important to be aware the total weight of the tablet is different from the actual elemental magnesium content.
A typical magnesium 665 mg tablet contains Magnesium Glycinate Chelate Buffered- Magnesium Bisglycinate Chelate, Magnesium Oxide but the elemental magnesium content will only be about 120 mg actual magnesium. The different bonds have different percentages of elemental magnesium so do check the label to be sure your total magnesium intake is above 400mg elemental magnesium daily.
Hey! Here is two links for you to look into.
This is the study done on heroin withdrawal: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10836211/
This is the product I bought: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CIS5BYG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fab_WYtFFbH7J4EJM
Notice that this is sodium ascorbate NOT ascorbic acid. Reason being that taking 5g of an acidic powder every few hours is hard on the stomach. This other vitamin C supplement will increase your sodium intake substantially but drink water and it'll be excreted.
To answer your question based on the article: it works best when you preload vitamin C two days in advance. I take like 3g every 4 hours maybe for a total of 18g a day. The first large dose will help with physical WD symptoms but apparently it's best after continued use. Don't quote me on these amounts and I recommend you read the article and calculate a dose based on your weight. That being said: vitamin C is water soluble so you'll pee out excess. If you get the sodium form I linked, the biggest worry is increased sodium intake and kidney stones. Drink ALOT of water and you'll be fine! Which you should be doing during WD anyways.
Edit: another benefit of this is strong antioxidant activity and it'll only help your immune system during the covid end-times lol. Good luck man you've got this! Vitamin C is incredibly helpful. You'll KNOW when it's wearing off and you need to redose because you'll feel your WD symptoms coming back as if your kratom dose is wearing off.
People waiting at the store first thing in the morning so they can get their "fix"?
She most likely knows full well that people more than just want this stuff.
No, other than this sub there isn't many places that list the negatives of this plant. There is a facebook group I believe but Ive not visited it personally.
There is one thing now that I think of it.
Take a look at the comments, a good indication of some of the issues with this plant and its addictive nature.
Kava Kava | 700mg Capsules |... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B3PLXNY?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
There’s a lot of options, but I find the capsules easy.. and yea I think it can be addictive but not like Kratom.. you can take it for 2 weeks and stop without bad effects..
Nano-curcumin is actually legit. It’s much more bioavailable than normal curcumin. Also assists in opiate withdrawal! That’s how I came across it. I’ve taken it in the past for inflammation tho. It’s a little pricey. Here’s the one I use - $50 for either 2 or 4 months. I take it twice a day so only 2 months.
https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Threonate-Capsules-Magtein-Bioavailable/dp/B01M4GM9R1
This stuff works amazingly, IME. Extremely bioavailable and much more of a "nootropic" than other forms of magnesium. Its great for helping your brain function better.
I'm using the same one I imagine a lot are using from Amazon here. Over the course of 2 years, I've gone through about three of them... they're not great and I feel like they degrade through the year. I'd just drop another $10 for a new one if I started to taper, and consider it my last one.
High quality turmeric and magnesium!!!! Tumeric is key and helped me tons ur gonna want to take around 1000 mg - 2000mg, its gotta have black pepper in it because it will help the bioavailability (make it absorb better) and for magnesium u will want to take a blended supplement with a bunch of different forms of magnesium, magnesium and tumeric are so key!!!! Can get both at Walmart, heres the Amazon link to the tumeric i take
High quality turmeric and magnesium!!!! Tumeric is key and helped me tons ur gonna want to take around 1000 mg - 2000mg, its gotta have black pepper in it because it will help the bioavailability (make it absorb better) and for magnesium u will want to take a blended supplement with a bunch of different forms of magnesium, magnesium and tumeric are so key!!!! Can get both at Walmart, heres the Amazon like to the tumeric i take Turmeric Curcumin
Turmeric Curcumin with BioPerine 1500mg. Highest Potency Available. Premium Joint & Healthy Inflammatory Support with 95% Standardized Curcuminoids. Non-GMO, Gluten Free Capsules with Black Pepper https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DBTFO98/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Ue5xFbBBGVQ49
I would recommend getting a grams scale for $12 on Amazon here if you can afford it and measure your intake, especially if you’re planning to taper. Eyeballing it is not helpful bc even a teaspoon can vary depending on the vendor or the grind.
It will get better. Maybe you can try Quit Kratom app which tracks various health benefits. Seeing the real number how long until the symptom is gone can help. Sure it is all an estimation at best, but it can help. Good luck
Kiva Black Seed Oil Capsules, 2000 mg per Serving- Organic, Cold-Pressed and RAW (90 Softgels) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B1XMQHD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_s7uKDbA0JWHBW
It's actually even a lot cheaper than I remember.
As others have said, 1tsp is anywhere from 2g-3.5g in my experience, with the average being 2.5g. It depends on how hard you pack the spoon and what the grind of the batch is.
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As long as you are consistent in your measurements and you're using the same batch for your taper, it doesn't really matter what the weight is. You can taper by volume (tbsp) just like you taper by weight (g). In other words if you go from 3TBSP per day to 2.5TBSP to 2TBSP etc etc, down to zero then that's no different than going from 24gpd to 20gpd to 16gpd etc etc down to zero. Or if your batch were to be less dense then it might be equivalent to going from 18gpd to 15gpd to 12gpd etc etc down to zero. Again, this assumes you're using the same batch and same packing amount and level/rounded spoon.
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Overall, you can get a scale from Amazon for $9 and that will make your life easier and you'll be more consistent. Personally, I tapered by volume down to a level where I was concerned that the variation in packing/rounding was significant enough to change my daily gpd. Then I got the scale and tapered the last 5g by weight.
It will get better over time, just never touch kratom again. I went through the same thing, full panic with full body tremors, went to the ER, I was hypokalemic (low blood potassium). They gave me potassium chloride which helped, along with a few benzos until the anxiety got better.
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I recommend making an electrolyte water drink with sodium and potassium chloride. Ever heard of the snake diet? I don't follow it but the guy has a recommended dosage, see here: https://www.amazon.com/SNAKE-Juice-Electrolyte-Unflavored-Fasting-Focused/dp/B07F5YZNYV/ Don't take more than three servings a day. This will keep your electrolytes in balance which your heart will appreciate.
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Note you can buy the ingredients separately for cheaper, get the NOW brand of potassium chloride, and there's a few pink Himalayan salt brands. For the anxiety get 500mg GABA caps from NOW brand as well to take up to 3x a day until it's better. It's like xanax-lite.
Gotta try squeezing fresh root, that other stuff is junk, I did the same thing, kava is LEGIT.
http://gourmethawaiiankava.com
Or even...
Definitely! To keep myself accountable and consistent with taking all my supplements I got this adorable pill keeper--it holds A TON.
Taking all the supplements sort of replaced my habit of swallowing lots of capsules (powder was never my thing). I've sort of channelled my kratom swallowing into supplement taking.
In addition to the standard BSO capsules, ashwaganda, magnesium and multivitamin, I decided to start taking apple cider vinegar tablets, mastic gum, and a probiotic. I genuinely do feel healthier.
I ran out of several of my supplements about a week and a half ago and I've been lazy about reupping...Might be why I've been a little more "blah" recently. So I decided to reorder some last night. Weirdly excited for them all to arrive...what a strange thing, but at least it's better than compulsively taking kratom ��
Caffeine shouldn't be preventing you from losing weight unless you're loading it with cream and sugar. I'll reiterate what others have said, I wouldn't have gotten by after quitting kratom without caffeine. One of the worst side effects was extreme fatigue.
Try out this tea instead of coffee. It is still pretty high in caffeine and gives me great mood lift versus coffee which just gives me nervous energy. I love the flavor of it too.
Wait to go on any drastic diets until you've kicked kratom completely. Doing too much at once will leave you feeling that much more deprived and will set you up for failure. I did Whole30 (Which is basically paleo) while I was tapering and it made the withdrawals SO much worse, specifically the restless legs. You shouldn't force yourself to detox off of carbs and sugar on top of kratom. Detoxing off of sugar alone can feel like opiate withdrawl at times.
Tackle one thing at a time, and start with the thing that has the most negative impact on your life and will be the hardest to kick. I'm guessing that would be kratom. After you've been stable for a couple of months, worry about your other vices. It will feel so much easier to kick sugar or caffeine once you've gotten the hard stuff out of the way.
Also, never just stop drinking caffeine after any sort of sustained use. Taper down like you would any other substance.
Thanks,Tip.......
Recently a friend turned onto a book titled "The Happiness Trap", check it out here. It's a mindfulness based self-help book and it's A-MA-ZING !
There is nothing in this world more helpful of helping addicts (or anyone unhappy about anything) than mindfulness, IMHO.
EDIT: Great Video !!!
Witness to the Fire - Creativity and the Veil of Addiction https://smile.amazon.com/Witness-Fire-Creativity-Veil-Addiction/dp/0877735883/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515244676&sr=8-1&keywords=witness+to+the+fire
That's a great book, I have read it and have the audio book on iTunes. Another good book is 10% Happier by Dan Harris. He's a tv broadcaster that had a panic attack on live television, its about meditation. Really interesting.
Meditation is amazing!!! I try and do it daily. Also, a great book/audio book is The Power of Now by Eckart Tolle. Highly recommend. I also just started reading 10% Happier by Dan Harris, the news anchor that had a panic attack on live television and talks about how meditation has helped him. It's nice to know that you're not alone with these horrible thoughts and that you CAN get better.
OMG, I know exactly what you mean about the creative process. I could take about that like, all day long. LOL. My oldest son is a musician and just starting to write music. All artists are PLAGUED by self doubt. Read THE WAR OF ART by Steven Pressfield. Not to be confused with The Art of War. It's a great kick in the pants and helps identify those negative forces at work when we are being creative and how to combat them. That book is a life changer. :)
I quit cold turkey a few months ago and made it around 11 days, too, before I ended up exactly where you are. I started taking small, roughly 2 grams doses every day after that, and it still had all of the negative effects of heavy doses, and my withdrawal this time has been just as bad, if not worse. Stick it out! You'll get there. I'm taking L-Tyrosine and it seems to be helping tremendously with the heavy depression caused by low dopamine. Here's where I got mine, but you may be able to find it at a brick and mortar store: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019LWVLA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Have you calibrated your new scale at all? that may well be the secret. Did you also get one of these with it? https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-Calibration-Weight/dp/B002SVUBYE/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_79_lp_t_2/135-2760647-5677551?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=W948GZTVD5Y55XW1WTPX&dpID=317gsXrbYhL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail
Copy paste from other thread:
> I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015RZ7QMM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 Which has the densest omega 3 content of anything I've ever seen (3500mg / teaspoon) - 2000mg EPA and 1000mg DHA, so it's like, perfect. There's even vitamin D in there. It tastes like lemon and there's no fishy burps even though you're drinking liquid (fishy burps is an indication the oil is not fresh).
> It's also super expensive, so you don't need to go this route, but whatever you do compare it to this and see how it stacks up. You can buy much less expensive oils but you might just need to take more of it to get the same EPA/DHA out of it.
This is one of the best for ash, and best price: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T5BLPQI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 regualr ash did not do as much for me as the ksm66 version which also has reserach behind it. I take 1 twice a day, sometimes another late at night.
for theanine, this is most peoples favorite as it is embedded in coconut oil for easy assimilation: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TXY32FY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 take 1 with coffee, and then one as needed whenever i get anxious.
I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015RZ7QMM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 Which has the densest omega 3 content of anything I've ever seen (3500mg / teaspoon) - 2000mg EPA and 1000mg DHA, so it's like, perfect. There's even vitamin D in there. It tastes like lemon and there's no fishy burps even though you're drinking liquid (fishy burps is an indication the oil is not fresh).
It's also super expensive, so you don't need to go this route, but whatever you do compare it to this and see how it stacks up. You can buy much less expensive oils but you might just need to take more of it to get the same EPA/DHA out of it.
Ah shit, anxiety is a real insidious and lonely thing to suffer. I feel you there. I had some real horrendous anxiety problems a few years back (exacerbated by benzo use), but about 6 months in the abyss taught me how to manage it, and luckily that made the anxiousness/depression aspect of kratom wds straightforward to deal with.
You've hit the most important one for me, cardio exercise. The other things that help me out immensely are consistent meditation and fish oil/mass amounts of broccoli/cabbage. Not as in pills, but like a shot of fish oil: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015RZ7QMM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_Vh5nFOUQE2DWE
Think theres some less expensive options out there but I think is one of the most potent ones out there. Fish oil pills are nearly useless because you'd have to take about 30 of em a day to match what the liquid stuff has in it, and also omega 3s go rancid quickly.
As for meditation, it helps you identify when you start ruminating - the spinning round and round in your head with anxious thoughts - and the more mindful of these you are the better equipped youll be to deal with them.
The last one is a complement to meditation - staying engaged. Leaving the house, talking to people, taking part in activities.
Sadly no amount of these things seems to be a quick fix for RLS. Whatevers going on with that I suspect I'll have to just wait it out.
This is what I take....seems to have a lot of the things mentioned here as helpful. I'm past wd symptoms (I think) so YMMV but i've been very happy with it for the past week. https://www.amazon.com/Melatonin-Tablets-L-Theanine-Chamomile-Valerian/dp/B014X22IUA
You'll need to grab a scale to follow along; the doses drop in such small increments (.2 grams), it'll be impossible to eyeball. Here's a scale on Amazon for under $8.00 (can't beat the price!):
If I had to estimate though, I'd say 15 grams is approx. 2 tablespoons.